Stanford MSTP vs UCLA MSTP (vs. Hopkins MSTP vs. Harvard Affiliate MD/PhD)

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elefante_marino

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EDIT: In following some wise prompting from @langwang3 below, I've realized that I was overemphasizing my negative first impressions of Stanford's student culture. Current students who have said that they initially shared my fears about the tech culture have found that they haven't felt that at all since they arrived at Stanford. In addition, it seems that there is a robust student culture of folks hoping to serve the underserved as well as a few students who share my interests in reproductive medicine.

Preface: I'm a Latinx LGBTQIA+ person interested in reproductive biology, reproductive healthcare for queer and trans folks, and reproductive justice advocacy. I want to go to school in a place where my scientific, clinical, and social justice passions can flourish together, not a place where I'll have to sacrifice one or more of those interests to nourish another. In addition, I have a serious partner (3 yrs) who will be in LA next year (likely for the next two years at a minimum) working in the tech industry. I am feeling a LOT of pressure from my parents to attend Hopkins, Stanford, or Harvard (I was on a full ride in undergrad, so we have the money saved up to make Harvard work if that ends up being my choice). My parents see Hopkins, Stanford, and Harvard in a different tier than UCLA prestige-wise, but I'm not someone who values prestige to that extent. Since real second look visits are no longer an option, I figured I would post here to get as many perspectives as possible as I make my decision. I am humbled to be in this position after a very successful cycle and hope that I can make the most of the opportunities in front of me.


Johns Hopkins MSTP

Pros
  • I got the sense that the program was extremely flexible and willing to work with students to make their experience as productive and enjoyable as possible
  • From what I saw, the MD/PhD cohort was racially diverse and had a fair number of LGBTQIA+ students. I remember feeling deeply humbled and excited to find my own identities reflected in the students around me. I felt like they could be my role models. I felt really great in that community on my interview day.
  • Faculty in my area of interest are relatively strong, and if my interests were to radically change, I'm confident that I would find strong faculty in many other areas as well
  • Family would be really supportive of me attending here due to its prestige in the medical community. I must admit that Hopkins' excellent coverage of the COVID-19 outbreak has made me somewhat better understand the utility of having a trusted name.
  • Hopkins has had a terrible record of inflicting violence on communities of color in Baltimore, but from what I saw, they're taking responsibility for those crimes and stepping up to the challenge of serving communities of great need. This is very much in line with my values.
  • I like living in cities, and Baltimore is indeed a city!
Cons
  • Reproductive biology did not seem like a real focus here despite having a smattering of faculty across departments that interested me, especially within the very strong school of public health.
  • Undergrad campus is not integrated with medical school campus, making it tougher to take additional classes that might not be on the medical campus, both within and outside of my PhD requirements.
  • It seems to me that there is very little for my partner in Baltimore and can't imagine her ever wanting to join me there without adversely affecting her career trajectory or compromising in a way that might breed resentment and wouldn't be healthy for our relationship. East coast-West coast long distance seems like a really difficult obstacle.
  • AOA



Stanford MSTP

Pros
  • Several very productive researchers within my field of interest, and one that is an excellent fit for my specific project interests.
  • Location in the Bay Area means that after my partner has her 2+ years at her job in LA, she would likely have an easy time finding a tech job close to me if I were in Palo Alto, and might be motivated to do so for her own career development.
  • Undergrad campus integrated with medical school campus, which would allow me great flexibility in labs across all departments and the opportunity to take elective coursework outside of the medical school if I so desire.
  • Small class size -> tight-knit community?
  • Weather! <3
  • Family would be supportive of me going here due to prestige reasons.
  • The match list/future directions for students here are extraordinarily impressive, with some students able to start labs right after finishing their MD/PhDs and the remainder matching universally at the BEST programs in their fields. Could the Stanford name be responsible? Is there something really special about the research environment here that makes this kind of success possible?
  • If my research interests were to change wildly in medical school in advance of me starting my PhD, I would feel very confident that I'd find top-notch researchers in any field across the University. Stanford really feels like the research powerhouse in the U.S. right now.
  • Stellar clinical research initiatives (and still growing!) in my areas of clinical interest
Cons
  • Though it’s on the West coast, it still does not give me the proximity to my partner that UCLA would offer – I’d likely need to hop on a short flight every two weeks or so.
  • I don’t love the suburban vibes of Palo Alto and students I met said they didn’t often get to go to SF despite the existence of the Caltrain.
  • Unsure about the quality of the clinical education here, as I’ve heard it may be somewhat lacking compared to other places I’m considering. That said, I'm aware that for a future physician-scientist, the research training is paramount over the clinical training at this stage.

UCLA MSTP

Pros
  • Perhaps the best research fit of any of the schools – a relatively robust community of reproductive scientists, and especially one lab that feels like a phenomenal fit. The MSTP helped me set up a special meeting outside my interview date to talk with this particular PI, and the PI expressed a great interest in having me as a PhD student and informed me that they have space to take me on as a student in their lab in the coming years. That said, I am also highly interested in several other laboratories outside of this one lab, so I don’t feel pigeonholed into working with this one person or anything like that.
  • Love the big city that is LA and would love the opportunity to explore as much of it as possible during my 8+ years of training.
  • Weather! <3
  • The MSTP students I met were all really welcoming, and it felt like they were going above and beyond to make my experience a good one. Communications I’ve had with a few of them after my interview have all been extremely encouraging. People seem really happy there!
  • Proximity to my partner – going to UCLA would allow me to live with her from the get-go!
  • UCLA seems to have a strong social justice bent and vested interest in serving the medically underserved throughout Southern California. Very much in line with my values.
  • Clinically, there appears to be robust investment in queer healthcare, including lots of online info about reproductive health services for queer folks.
Cons
  • Relative to Harvard, Stanford, and Hopkins, there might be a prestige difference? Perhaps my chances to match at UCSF or Brigham and Women’s in OBGYN might be slightly greater if I went to Stanford, Hopkins, or Harvard?
  • Large class size – perhaps less personalized education? I’ve heard that UCLA’s MSTP has run into issues in the past…does anyone know what those might be?
  • Family would be less supportive of me going here.
  • LA traffic during commute between shared home with partner and med school/research lab.
  • AOA
  • If my research interests were to radically change, I feel like I don't have the same guarantee I would have at Stanford that I could find really top-notch faculty in whatever I decide to pursue, and might have to be a bit more selective in identifying research strengths of UCLA departments.


Harvard Affiliate MD/PhD

Pros
  • Can pick from either Harvard or MIT labs. Affiliates are embraced as MD/PhD students and given equal opportunities to MSTP awardees.
  • Boston is an amazing city and I’d love to live there!
  • My partner’s top choice for her PhD is MIT, so there is a good chance she’d be happy to join me in Boston in a few years.
  • HST curriculum is a perfect match for my learning style and interests as a physician-scientist. I really believe that a research-centered learning approach would enhance my training.
  • Fenway Health and queer/trans medicine really prioritized at Harvard hospitals. ORMA (office of recruitment and multicultural affairs) seemed to have a really good sense of the queer/trans healthcare scene in Boston and were able to point me toward clinicians and researchers interested in queer health.
  • Large MSTP cohorts offer many chances to make close friends :)
  • No AOA
Cons
  • Research fit is perhaps not as strong as Hopkins, Stanford, or UCLA
  • Though my family has money saved up to foot the bill here if necessary, I would still undeniably prefer for my younger siblings to be able to use it instead for college/grad/professional school and for me to proceed without feeling indebted to them.
  • Given that I was waitlisted for the full MSTP award, I can't help feeling that I wasn't one of their top choices, and thus might have somewhat of a less fulfilling experience? Perhaps this is just my ego talking though…
  • I’ve been told my current students that working with patients of need can be somewhat complicated amid all the tertiary care centers affiliated with Harvard, but I’ve also been told that many students are interested in this kind of service nonetheless.
  • Don’t love the dorm-style living of Vanderbilt Hall


Summary: On the one hand, my aspirations to be a successful, productive physician-scientist tell me that I should prioritize the research fit above all else. That said, I ultimately recognize that I can only work with one investigator for my PhD, so perhaps it isn’t vital to have a multitude of researchers in my field of interest and a few PIs that are a good match is probably enough. My day-to-day happiness is also paramount, and my partner, the weather, etc are certainly part of that equation. I want to keep as many doors open as possible, but honestly, I feel that none of these options would close any doors. Does medical school prestige really matter for long-term career outcomes in any way, in particular for physician-scientists? Am I making a mistake if I choose a top 10 institution over a top 3 institution? Should I let research fit and personal happiness dictate my choice over name recognition? Am I overestimating or underestimating the importance of any of the pros or cons I listed here? Thank you so much for any help you can provide!

UPDATE: I think I may be leaning toward Stanford and UCLA as my top two options for their research fits and West coast location. I'm hoping to identify key differentiating factors between those two places as I choose my home for the next 8 years!

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UCLA is a top 10 school in both research and clinical. It will afford you great opportunities, similar to the other schools. Prestige is covered at each of these schools, so you should go with fit. That sounds like UCLA.
 
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Thanks to all who have commented and voted so far! For those who voted but didn't comment (or all others) would you be willing to further explain your votes? Which aspects of my decision-making process did you find most salient?
 
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Thanks to all who have commented and voted so far! For those who voted but didn't comment (or all others) would you be willing to further explain your votes? Which aspects of my decision-making process did you find most salient?
I feel the first two cons you listed for Stanford are assumptions. You should probably reach out to more students to get a better picture
 
Major congratulations are in order! You are officially going to be a physician-scientist, the best job in the world, and with your options, I am sure you will have a brilliant career.

While I cannot underestimate the importance of having a support system and maintaining your relationship, I would add as a current Hopkins MSTP student that many of the things you listed were huge factors in my own decision.

Happy to speak more privately, but to name a few:
- Both diversity and inclusion (as different as they are) are things we are actively working on in the program with a wonderful group of students and great faculty support
- Nobody coming to Hopkins or Baltimore should be oblivious to the long history of violence that the institution has inflicted upon the community, but I think that learning how universities undo this damage and work to earn back trust is pivotally important
- An obligatory comment that yes, I do pinch myself every day with the weight of history here and the stature of my peers and mentors. It inspires me to work harder every day, and is unlike any other place I've been
- My classmates are THE BEST ever

TL;DR - you cannot make a wrong choice, but if I can answer any questions for you about Hopkins or Baltimore please DM me!
 
Seems to me like it's really between Stanford and UCLA. You'd be able to make long distance work at either of these two (though Stanford would certainly require more effort than UCLA) and they're the places with your top two research fits. Keep talking to folks from both schools and pay close attention at the two virtual second looks. You'll make the right choice in the end!
 
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Hi all, I've updated my pros/cons list to reflect that Stanford doesn't not have AOA. I'm kind of panicking a bit at this point -- clearly Stanford and UCLA can both offer me so much, and ultimately it seems to be a bit of a quality of life trade-off at the end of the day. Enjoy big city living with my partner in LA vs. make it work in Palo Alto and endure long distance for a while. Stanford offers me prestige, great flexibility to explore clinical and research opportunities during medical school, and an unparalleled research environment. UCLA offers similarly phenomenal research especially in my precise area of interest, but less overall breadth of research opportunities across all departments. It's worth mentioning that I got along better with my fellow acceptees at Stanford than at UCLA; not sure how important that really is.
 
From your above post, its clear your heart seems to be set on Stanford. Any flexibility with your SO in moving up to Palo Alto in a couple of years or so?
 
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I actually committed to Stanford but was admitted off the waitlist at UCSF! If anyone has thoughts on Stanford vs UCSF given my interests and preferences, I would love to hear them!
I thought once you "commit to enroll" you are actually committing to the school and must withdraw from any waitlists, unlike selecting "plan to enroll".
 
I'd like to update y'all for any future applicants who may refer to this thread. UCSF offered me a phenomenal combination of many of the strengths of UCLA and Stanford; I'll be attending UCSF for my MD/PhD!
 
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