Stanford or UCSF-SFGH MS4 away rotation????

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

mizzoushooter

New Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Hey guys,
I'm heading into EM and I was really hoping to do my residency in San Francisco bay area. I'm an Ms3 right now from Missouri, so it’s a long way from home! I'll be doing my first 4th year EM rotation in St Louis at Washington University.
My question is which rotation is better for MS4's? Stanford of UCSF?

What I want:
To learn a lot and get some great exposure
To get a LOR if possible
To look good in San Fran so my chances of going to that area are higher.

Anyone rotate at both? Anyone do an M4 rotation as UCSF? I have read ALL of the reviews from every website and I have not seen one on M4 at UCSF. It is a pretty new program...

Thanks
Eric

Members don't see this ad.
 
Hi there. I did a rotation at UCSF this past year and can give you some insight into the experience. I can't say much regarding Stanford since I did not rotate there.

All in all, I had a great time rotating at UCSF. The way the month breaks down is you do one week at UCSF Medical Center, (which will give you academic/tertiary care experience) and 3 weeks at San Francisco General, which is a county, Level I trauma center in SF. I would have to say that I had the best times working at SFGH. It's definitely more busy than UCSF and with a different patient population (one which I prefer). Also, I had opportunities to do a lot of procedures at SFGH... there was a lot of suturing opportunities, splinting, ultrasound, and I also did an LP and paracentesis. UCSF is a different atmosphere... lower volume, not as many procedures (although I did get to do a few ultrasounds), and different patients (more complex medical cases, less inner city). The attending at both sites were great, and you get a decent amount of autonomy at both sites (probably a bit more at SFGH).

Other aspects of the rotation:
- 1 EMS ride-along shift with the SFPD - pretty much observational
- 1 Toxicology shift in which you listen in on phone calls to the regional tox center
- 1 Ultrasound shift at UCSF
- You are not required to go to any of the weekly didactics but you are welcome to attend
- 17 clinical shifts, each 8 hours long
- The sites are pretty far from each other so picking a place to live can be challenging... so keep that in mind

You definitely will (and should) get a letter from here. The PD is pretty well known in EM. A lot of the faculty are pretty well known in EM, actually.

In terms of Stanford vs. UCSF/SFGH, I don't think you can go wrong one way or the other in terms of getting a LOR and some experience in the Bay Area. I'm not sure about this, but I think the Stanford elective is all done at Stanford, so you'll only get an academic environment instead of a county environment.

All in all, I had a great month at UCSF and actually ranked it #2 on my ROL. Another great program in the Bay Area is Alameda County (Highland) in Oakland. This rotation experience is pure county.

Feel free to PM if you have any other questions.
 
If you do a rotation at UCSF, you'll get to meet a certain red-headed goddess:D
 
Members don't see this ad :)
As a correction: The rotation is not 17 8 hour shifts. It is 14-8 hour shifts.
EMS, ultrasound, and tox are mandatory and thus could be considered as 'shifts' although you aren't in the ED for them.

Medical Student didactics are on monday and are mandatory. (These are primarily workshop based: suturing, splinting, slit lamp.)

Residency lectures (on thursday) are on a voluntary basis, however, every student is scheduled for at least on thursday off so that they may attending, if they choose. (Highly recommended for those going into EM)

Departmental SLOR's are written, when requested.

(and thanks, Rendar! don't forget to email me on match day!)
 
garh, sorry, getting my academic associates all jumpled. :D
 
Thanks for the help guys! I appricate you taking the time to post. I think I will end up doing UCSF which sounds great!
But if someone did a 4th year rotation at Stanford I would still like to hear about their experince if you have time.
Thanks,
Eric

PS: Roja I'm sending you a IM.
 
My school doesn't have an associated EM Department, so I opted to do 2 rotations at Stanford.

My first rotation was at the end of my third year at Stanford's main ED in Palo Alto (academic setting). I set up the rotation to confirm my desire to enter the field. I was fortunate to be the only student rotating during the month (end of May/beginning of June), but there can be as many as 10 (?) students on the rotation at a time. Each student is expected to complete 12 8-hour shifts. Shifts are divided between the acute, non-acute, peds, and urgent care areas. ED volume was high with a variety of chief complaints. You present to the attendings directly (better for SLORs). I had plenty opportunities for procedures (4 lumbar punctures, 3 lac repairs, a few I&Ds, many pelvic exam, 1 central line, a few casts/splints). Ultrasound basics were heavily emphasized and incorporated into shifts/lectures because Stanford was trying to get the faculty certified in US. In addition, students were expected to attend weekly resident seminars and student lectures (mainly workshops). An EMS ride along and journal club were both optional. Besides shift evals, grades are also based on a post-rotation exam (just read the book) and post-rotation simulation lab. Dr. Williams spent 30+ minutes advising me about applying for Emergency Medicine (hugely beneficial). There are many well-known faculty to write SLORs. Overall, I left with a firm understanding of how to approach the most common cc (CP, SOB, Abd Pain, etc). I loved the rotation!

My second rotation (first audition) at Stanford was in August/September at the Santa Clara Kaiser Permanente (community). Students are expected to work 17 12-hour shifts. Kaiser filters the patients, so you won't see sore throats, coughs, etc. There is a limit of 1 student/month in order to maximize teaching. Typically 2 residents and 1 student are working each shift in different areas of the ED (the PGY2 works in the trauma/acute area while the PGY1 and student work in the non-acute areas). High volume, but less trauma. In fact, you don't see any trauma (due to the ED set up) unless you seek it out yourself. Students work one-on-one with attendings, who are all very excited to teach. Since you are working 12 hour shifts (and the attendings are doing 8s), you have opportunities to practice sign-outs every shift. If you put time in before the rotation writing templates, Health Connect can save a lot of time when writing notes. Kaiser has a procedure clinic for lacerations/splints, thus ED procedures are rare. My procedures included a few pelvics, 1 I&D, 1 arm lac, 1 facial lac (on a 3 year old!). Ultrasound wasn't emphasized as much, but they have plenty of new beautiful machines. Students are required to travel to Palo Alto for weekly resident seminars. Although not required, it is strongly encouraged to attend the weekly student lectures at Palo Alto (same as above) and post-rotation sim lab. Dr. Garmel spends extensive amounts of time advising each student...I probably spent >4 hours total talking to him. I wish I had met him earlier in my 3rd year because his advice was golden.

Stanford has a third option for rotations at Santa Clara Valley (county).

I ranked Stanford in the middle of my list. It would have been ranked much higher if I didn't have to work around my husband's career. I def recommend rotating through either Kaiser or Palo Alto. :)
 
Last edited:
If you are looking in the bay area, don't forget Highland just across the bridge from SF- www.hghed.com

I rotated there and it was amazing.
 
Top