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The intent of this post is not to start a useless flame war but to provide a semi-informed personal opinion about this legitimate and difficult comparison facing many candidates considering West Coast pathology programs. I trained at Stanford for AP/CP and a general surgical pathology fellowship. Dr. Galli and Abbas are both friends from Harvard and admonishes any graduate from maligning the other program (or any program for that matter). Furthermore, the faculty have a good relationship and there is significant cross pollination with faculty appointments and fellowships.
With that in mind, are there any generalizations comparing the two programs that most people would agree with? Here are my opinions just for fun.
1. General surgical pathology ==> Stanford.
Dr. Kempson is one of the greatest living surgical pathologists. He is personally responsible for the consult service three months of the year and he comes in nearly every day to weigh-in on difficult cases. The department's core strengths are in gynecologic, breast, and soft tissue pathology. Dr. Kempson has trained scores of high level pathologists across the country. Dr. Kempson, Sibley, Hendrickson, Berry, Longacre, and others have strong relations and swing with other nationally-recognized pathologists. (That's how jobs happen.) In my opinion, other comparable places for general surgical pathology training are all East, such as MGH, BWH, JHU. UCSF is also highly regarded, but the legacy is not as strong. Dr. Zaloudek (who trained at Stanford) is a well known gynecologic pathologist. While Stanford has excellent liver pathologists, Dr. Ferrell is still the premiere liver guru in the area.
2. Hemepath ==> Stanford.
Dr. Dorfman is retired now, but Drs. Warnke, Arber, Natkunam, and Atwater make lymph node, bone marrow, and flow training top notch. The program has a legacy of training numerous high level hematopathologists across the country. In my opinion, other comparable places for hemepath training are also East, such as MGH, Chicago, NCI.
3. Molecular, cytogenetics, biochemical genetics ==> Stanford.
Just come visit. The scope of the operation and the facilities are breath-taking. Stanford has a leading molecular virology lab, performs the state's newborn screening (including CF), has a state of the art HLA lab, and more. The strength in molecular pathology also helps maintain the lead in hemepath.
4. Overal CP training ==> Tie.
UCSF has a longer running CP program, but Stanford's CP is one of their best kept secrets. Over the last ten years they have built up to program to what I think is among the best in the nation. UCSF has many great assets for their CP training, such as the Blood Centers of the Pacific and Dr. Toy. But Stanford also operates their own in-house collection and distribution operation.
5. Cytopathology ==> UCSF.
There is no question of Britt-Marie Ljung's influence on West Coast cytopathology. Stanford's best cyto faculty are trained by her. Most programs would have to acknowledge UCSF's dominance in this area. Historically, many gung-ho Stanford residents have gone up to UCSF for cytopathology fellowship, just like many gung-ho UCSF residents have come down to Stanford for general surgical pathology or hematopathology fellowships.
6. Dermatopathology ==> UCSF.
The exploits and fame of Drs. Leboit, McCalmont, and Bastian are well-known. Stanford had a strong program lead by Dr. Kohler, but with her passing the program is greatly diminished (in my opinion). While cutaneous lymphoma remains uniquely strong at Stanford, overall I think most programs would have to acknowledge UCSF's dominance in this area.
7. Oral pathology ==> UCSF.
There is no way Stanford can compete here. UCSF has a world class dental school and although Dr. Regezi is retired, his legacy continues to make UCSF the gold-standard oral pathology consult (in my opinion).
8. Non-medical academic life ==> Stanford.
Although UCSF is the premiere medical facility of the UC system, it doesn't have it's own undergraduate campus. Stanford Hospital is integrated with a top notch undergraduate university, medical school, law school, business school, many graduate schools, etc. Many residents come with spouses who are able to find positions as graduate students, post-docs, or faculty in education, social sciences, physics, genetics, mechanical engineering, etc. Stanford is very amenable to these couples "arrangements".
9. Raising a family ==> Stanford.
Palo Alto has a unique K-12 education system entirely enclosed within the city limits. Every school in Palo Alto is excellent and every school has on-site after school care. Parents in San Francisco can explain the frustration of the public school system, the disparity in quality, etc. Palo Alto is a dense suburban neighborhood with safe accessible libraries, parks, wetlands, and foothills. Kids bicycle to school (and adults too). There are homeless people and mentally ill people, but there are probably more of them in one city block South of Market (in SF) than in all of Palo Alto.
10. Living as a single person or childless couple ==> UCSF.
San Francisco is a world class city. Sometimes it is bursting with self-importance but nevertheless it is beautiful, cosmopolitan, diverse, and bustling. If you are a young urban professional who is from NYC, Chicago, Toronto, etc, you will be bored in Palo Alto. If you expect world class sushi, you won't find it in Palo Alto. Good luck finding Ethiopian food either, or even a decent Vietnamese sandwich. Even if there was an Ethiopian restaurant in Palo Alto (which there isn't) it will close by 9:30pm. All the single people at Stanford went with their friends to "the city" for fun. All of the married people (especially if they had kids) were too tired and almost never went to "the city" even though it was only 40 min. away.
That's all I have time for, but I hope this was entertaining without ruffling too many feathers. You'll be lucky to do any part of your training at Stanford or UCSF. Come have a look and see for yourself.
With that in mind, are there any generalizations comparing the two programs that most people would agree with? Here are my opinions just for fun.
1. General surgical pathology ==> Stanford.
Dr. Kempson is one of the greatest living surgical pathologists. He is personally responsible for the consult service three months of the year and he comes in nearly every day to weigh-in on difficult cases. The department's core strengths are in gynecologic, breast, and soft tissue pathology. Dr. Kempson has trained scores of high level pathologists across the country. Dr. Kempson, Sibley, Hendrickson, Berry, Longacre, and others have strong relations and swing with other nationally-recognized pathologists. (That's how jobs happen.) In my opinion, other comparable places for general surgical pathology training are all East, such as MGH, BWH, JHU. UCSF is also highly regarded, but the legacy is not as strong. Dr. Zaloudek (who trained at Stanford) is a well known gynecologic pathologist. While Stanford has excellent liver pathologists, Dr. Ferrell is still the premiere liver guru in the area.
2. Hemepath ==> Stanford.
Dr. Dorfman is retired now, but Drs. Warnke, Arber, Natkunam, and Atwater make lymph node, bone marrow, and flow training top notch. The program has a legacy of training numerous high level hematopathologists across the country. In my opinion, other comparable places for hemepath training are also East, such as MGH, Chicago, NCI.
3. Molecular, cytogenetics, biochemical genetics ==> Stanford.
Just come visit. The scope of the operation and the facilities are breath-taking. Stanford has a leading molecular virology lab, performs the state's newborn screening (including CF), has a state of the art HLA lab, and more. The strength in molecular pathology also helps maintain the lead in hemepath.
4. Overal CP training ==> Tie.
UCSF has a longer running CP program, but Stanford's CP is one of their best kept secrets. Over the last ten years they have built up to program to what I think is among the best in the nation. UCSF has many great assets for their CP training, such as the Blood Centers of the Pacific and Dr. Toy. But Stanford also operates their own in-house collection and distribution operation.
5. Cytopathology ==> UCSF.
There is no question of Britt-Marie Ljung's influence on West Coast cytopathology. Stanford's best cyto faculty are trained by her. Most programs would have to acknowledge UCSF's dominance in this area. Historically, many gung-ho Stanford residents have gone up to UCSF for cytopathology fellowship, just like many gung-ho UCSF residents have come down to Stanford for general surgical pathology or hematopathology fellowships.
6. Dermatopathology ==> UCSF.
The exploits and fame of Drs. Leboit, McCalmont, and Bastian are well-known. Stanford had a strong program lead by Dr. Kohler, but with her passing the program is greatly diminished (in my opinion). While cutaneous lymphoma remains uniquely strong at Stanford, overall I think most programs would have to acknowledge UCSF's dominance in this area.
7. Oral pathology ==> UCSF.
There is no way Stanford can compete here. UCSF has a world class dental school and although Dr. Regezi is retired, his legacy continues to make UCSF the gold-standard oral pathology consult (in my opinion).
8. Non-medical academic life ==> Stanford.
Although UCSF is the premiere medical facility of the UC system, it doesn't have it's own undergraduate campus. Stanford Hospital is integrated with a top notch undergraduate university, medical school, law school, business school, many graduate schools, etc. Many residents come with spouses who are able to find positions as graduate students, post-docs, or faculty in education, social sciences, physics, genetics, mechanical engineering, etc. Stanford is very amenable to these couples "arrangements".
9. Raising a family ==> Stanford.
Palo Alto has a unique K-12 education system entirely enclosed within the city limits. Every school in Palo Alto is excellent and every school has on-site after school care. Parents in San Francisco can explain the frustration of the public school system, the disparity in quality, etc. Palo Alto is a dense suburban neighborhood with safe accessible libraries, parks, wetlands, and foothills. Kids bicycle to school (and adults too). There are homeless people and mentally ill people, but there are probably more of them in one city block South of Market (in SF) than in all of Palo Alto.
10. Living as a single person or childless couple ==> UCSF.
San Francisco is a world class city. Sometimes it is bursting with self-importance but nevertheless it is beautiful, cosmopolitan, diverse, and bustling. If you are a young urban professional who is from NYC, Chicago, Toronto, etc, you will be bored in Palo Alto. If you expect world class sushi, you won't find it in Palo Alto. Good luck finding Ethiopian food either, or even a decent Vietnamese sandwich. Even if there was an Ethiopian restaurant in Palo Alto (which there isn't) it will close by 9:30pm. All the single people at Stanford went with their friends to "the city" for fun. All of the married people (especially if they had kids) were too tired and almost never went to "the city" even though it was only 40 min. away.
That's all I have time for, but I hope this was entertaining without ruffling too many feathers. You'll be lucky to do any part of your training at Stanford or UCSF. Come have a look and see for yourself.
. I can't wait to get back to the West Coast, so SF is a complete personal preference.
