Started my first rotation. Hate it.

[BigRedBeta]

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I never said I wasn't enjoying it, for the most part....

Some of the last year has been miserable, but for the most part, it's at least been fun.
I just feel like these two years are kind of "filler time" and could be better utilized.

We'll see how I feel after finishing 4th year and moving on, but that's what it seems like now...paying all this tuition money for what? A piece of paper at the end that allows you to move on to the real training.

As for "playing doctor"...I think that's what annoys me. We can't/don't really DO anything...so that's the sense in which I feel it's a waste.


My guess is this has a lot to do with the quality of clinical rotations.

I can definitely relate to the OP's plight...but I've not even considered quitting...I've just accepted that for these couple of years I'm not really doing anything other than paying a TON of money at 8% interest...and taking some really mundane tests...and waiting.

Trust me, it's going to be your first day of intern year when you realize that 3rd year wasn't a waste. You're going to be "clueless" but no where near where you at the beginning of third year...

 

[docbill]

3rd year was much more enjoyable then the first 2 years of medical school. Some rotations are Good, some bearable, and some like Surgery BLAHHHH.
You have to pick something you believe you will enjoy for the rest of your working life. Radiology would be easiest since you don't have to see pts at all... but would you be happy? I would prob hang myself in the dark room if I went in to that.

Sometimes the place you do a rotation and the residents/Attending you are with makes a huge difference.

BUT thank jebus that is over! Moving on to forth and the easy year.

 

[docbill]

PS. Half the time you won't know what the hell you are doing. Like a dear in a headlight.

 

[MJB]

I'm doing a rotation with an FP program that has lots of diversity in both the attendings and the residents...lecture every morning and noon that is relevant to what's going on...cool people to work with, a little autonomy...


Namely, it's more than shadowing, and there is some teaching going on...this makes all the difference in the world.


I have noticed that rotations are HIGHLY preceptor dependent. Within the same specialty, I've both loved and hated rotations based strictly on who I was working with.

I really wish our rotations were structured more like those of our MD counterparts...I get the feeling I'd feel a lot different about them....then again, I think 3rd years taking a bunch of call might be the silliest thing imaginable so I'm not sad I missed out on that.

 

[Pinner Doc]

Haha, what's left?

emergency medicine!

 

[hikikomori]

emergency medicine!

I'm at the end of my peds rotation and found that I hate inpatient and can tolerate outpatient. I still don't like dealing with crying babies and overprotective parents. I hate rounding... especially if it takes hours... and we're talking about the pt's family issues.. I mean, really?!?? So, peds is out. I started thinking about EM.... yea, I would see some kids, too, sometimes.. but heck, at least I don't have to follow them.

 

[smq123]

I really wish our rotations were structured more like those of our MD counterparts...I get the feeling I'd feel a lot different about them....then again, I think 3rd years taking a bunch of call might be the silliest thing imaginable so I'm not sad I missed out on that.

I actually didn't hate taking call. I didn't love it, but I DID learn a fair amount from being on call, doing acute consults, etc. It also gives you a glimpse into the lifestyle of a resident, which is useful in its own way.

 

[nlax30]

I actually didn't hate taking call. I didn't love it, but I DID learn a fair amount from being on call, doing acute consults, etc. It also gives you a glimpse into the lifestyle of a resident, which is useful in its own way.

I guess it could depend on the program, but so far I haven't really minded taking call. At least where I've been the hospital is quieter, little more laid back at night and was a good time to learn right beside the intern/resident managing a case as everyone isn't scrambling around trying to finish notes before morning lecture or rounds.

Also a good time for the student to get some procedures.

 

[astrocreep96]

I'm interested in going towards surgery, but I have enjoyed my IM rotation thus far, for the most part.

The only thing that really bugs me is days like today where I'm basically my intern's/resident's secretary. Sorry, but I'm not paying $40K a year to run and get your papework that your forgot on another floor. I'm here to learn and I can't do that when my fellow just finished a great teaching point as I got back from finding 15 ****ing charts and making copies. Total ****ing bull****.

Other than that, I actually like rounding on the patients.

 

[jackieMD2007]

I'm interested in going towards surgery, but I have enjoyed my IM rotation thus far, for the most part.

The only thing that really bugs me is days like today where I'm basically my intern's/resident's secretary. Sorry, but I'm not paying $40K a year to run and get your papework that your forgot on another floor. I'm here to learn and I can't do that when my fellow just finished a great teaching point as I got back from finding 15 ****ing charts and making copies. Total ****ing bull****.

Other than that, I actually like rounding on the patients.

Yeah it is terrible having to do work that is beneath you. 🙄
I mean, didn't they have an appendectomy or something you could have done?

Newsflash: working in the real world means having to do irritating logistical tasks. There is a learning point that can be taken away even from scut work--things have to get done somehow. Since the responsibility for the patient doesn't actually fall on us we have to assist the people who do have the responsibility for the patient: our interns and residents. Obviously your team shouldn't have you be doing this "all day" but there is going to be some scut to do.

 

[Perrotfish]

Yeah it is terrible having to do work that is beneath you. 🙄
I mean, didn't they have an appendectomy or something you could have done?

Newsflash: working in the real world means having to do irritating logistical tasks. There is a learning point that can be taken away even from scut work--things have to get done somehow. Since the responsibility for the patient doesn't actually fall on us we have to assist the people who do have the responsibility for the patient: our interns and residents. Obviously your team shouldn't have you be doing this "all day" but there is going to be some scut to do.

Working in the real world means THEY pay YOU. That means unless you're at USUHS you're not in the real world quite yet. The idea of paying a fortune for formal training, rather than just OJTing your way up the ladder like the nurses do, is that you get to learn more efficiently by removing the busywork and focusing on the educational side of things. The way the 'things' are supposed to get done is that they take the fortune that you are paying them, add in the fortune that their paying customers are paying and that the government is subsidizing them, and pay people to do the things that need doing so that you can focus on your education. If we drop the efficiency and do the uneducational busywork anyway then we're just employees that they've found a way not to pay.

 

[jackieMD2007]

If we drop the efficiency and do the uneducational busywork anyway then we're just employees that they've found a way not to pay.

I'm not really sure whom you are referencing with "they've" here.
I agree with you that it SHOULD work the way you've said.
Unfortunately that is NOT the way that it works, given that teams of residents are given more work to do with less hours and have to find time to teach us.

I like to think of doing some of the busywork tasks as "buying time" for the resident to teach me. If we can't get all of the jobs we need to do as a team done the resident cannot be free to teach us or answer questions.

 

[Perrotfish]

I'm not really sure whom you are referencing with "they've" here.
I agree with you that it SHOULD work the way you've said.
Unfortunately that is NOT the way that it works, given that teams of residents are given more work to do with less hours and have to find time to teach us.

I like to think of doing some of the busywork tasks as "buying time" for the resident to teach me. If we can't get all of the jobs we need to do as a team done the resident cannot be free to teach us or answer questions.

I'm not saying that there aren't times when the best practical solution is to man up and do the work. I'm saying that there's no need to be condescending towards the guy who thinks that it's horse**** that he needs to spend his time playing secretary to 'buy' teaching time when he already bought teaching time with a big fat tuition check. It is hore****, the only one acting as a secretary should be the secretary at the nurses station.

 

[DarknightX]

I'm at the end of my peds rotation and found that I hate inpatient and can tolerate outpatient. I still don't like dealing with crying babies and overprotective parents. I hate rounding... especially if it takes hours... and we're talking about the pt's family issues.. I mean, really?!?? So, peds is out. I started thinking about EM.... yea, I would see some kids, too, sometimes.. but heck, at least I don't have to follow them.

My first two rotations were Peds and OBGYN, and I thought I hated inpatient medicine based on my experiences with these rotations. I absolutely couldn't stand the residents on either service.....most of them were uptight and extremely maternalistic. I also couldn't stand all of the passive aggressive BS that they pulled. The nurses were the same way...those rotations were a nightmare and I felt like I hated medicine.

Besides those 2 rotations, I had a lot of fun during third year. IM, Psych, FP, and Surgery were awesome....residents weren't perfect, but they at least acted like normal human beings. I found out that most people (at least my school) also hated the Peds and OB residents....there's just something not right with them.

You'll find something you like....don't base your judgement of inpatient medicine on peds or OB...they live in their own passive-aggressive, rude, condescending little worlds.

 

[DarknightX]

I'm not saying that there aren't times when the best practical solution is to man up and do the work. I'm saying that there's no need to be condescending towards the guy who thinks that it's horse**** that he needs to spend his time playing secretary to 'buy' teaching time when he already bought teaching time with a big fat tuition check. It is hore****, the only one acting as a secretary should be the secretary at the nurses station.

Totally agree.

Why should any med student have to "buy" more teaching time when they're paying up in the you know what in tuition? I still don't get this idea of how scut work teaches you anything.... I guess it might help if you're a 24-25 year old kid who has never had a job.

However, some med students were professionals before we started medical school. Some of us already have families, children, and have been successful in other professions. So sorry if I won't take crap from a resident that's probably a few years younger than me. My name isn't "Hey med student", and I should be talked to in the same manner as anyone else in the hospital. I don't need to "prove myself" in order to be treated like a colleague.

I've always been totally receptive to doing anything that will help the team. I have no problem changing dressings, pulling lines/tubes, doing rectal exams...whatever stuff that the intern doesn't want to do, I'm the first to volunteer. What I won't do is get your coffee, fax things, or any other task that has zero to do with medicine. Being part of the team doesn't mean being a slave or a secretary.

 

[Taurus]

Totally agree.

Why should any med student have to "buy" more teaching time when they're paying up in the you know what in tuition? I still don't get this idea of how scut work teaches you anything.... I guess it might help if you're a 24-25 year old kid who has never had a job.

However, some med students were professionals before we started medical school. Some of us already have families, children, and have been successful in other professions. So sorry if I won't take crap from a resident that's probably a few years younger than me. My name isn't "Hey med student", and I should be talked to in the same manner as anyone else in the hospital. I don't need to "prove myself" in order to be treated like a colleague.

I've always been totally receptive to doing anything that will help the team. I have no problem changing dressings, pulling lines/tubes, doing rectal exams...whatever stuff that the intern doesn't want to do, I'm the first to volunteer. What I won't do is get your coffee, fax things, or any other task that has zero to do with medicine. Being part of the team doesn't mean being a slave or a secretary.

This is part of the reason why the ACGME instituted 80 hour caps. People didn't spend 120 hours a week in the hospital before the cap doing "real" clinical work. A lot of it was BS like being a slave to your senior resident. After the cap was put in place, everyone had to be more efficient and a lot of BS was tossed out. Things are a lot better now than better.

 

[astrocreep96]

Yeah it is terrible having to do work that is beneath you. 🙄
I mean, didn't they have an appendectomy or something you could have done?

Newsflash: working in the real world means having to do irritating logistical tasks. There is a learning point that can be taken away even from scut work--things have to get done somehow. Since the responsibility for the patient doesn't actually fall on us we have to assist the people who do have the responsibility for the patient: our interns and residents. Obviously your team shouldn't have you be doing this "all day" but there is going to be some scut to do.

Chill the **** out. I didn't say it was beneath me.

I did say I do not want to be a secretary - meaning, if > 50% of my time on the floor is running scut for an intern/resident that forgot to do it, or just doesn't want to do it, it isn't beneficial to my education.

I realize we all have to take on scut to make the team flow, and I get more of it than the interns/residents. But the fact remains I learn absolutely nothing by calling f/u appts all day. And I miss out on all the great teaching points the fellow gives on rounding when I'm running around the floor tracking down every one of the 10 patients we're going to see.

I'm not here to learn how to file paperwork. I got paid minimum wage for that when I was 16. I sure as hell do not see the point of paying $40k a year to do it now.

Edit - and in fairness, this is just a bit of me venting on an anonymous board. By and large, my rotation has been good and I get along fine with my residents. One day was particularly bad, but the others haven't been like that.

 

[jackieMD2007]

Edit - and in fairness, this is just a bit of me venting on an anonymous board. By and large, my rotation has been good and I get along fine with my residents. One day was particularly bad, but the others haven't been like that.

Well see there. Fair enough.😎

 

[montessori2md]

Totally agree.

Why should any med student have to "buy" more teaching time when they're paying up in the you know what in tuition? I still don't get this idea of how scut work teaches you anything.... I guess it might help if you're a 24-25 year old kid who has never had a job.

However, some med students were professionals before we started medical school. Some of us already have families, children, and have been successful in other professions. So sorry if I won't take crap from a resident that's probably a few years younger than me. My name isn't "Hey med student", and I should be talked to in the same manner as anyone else in the hospital. I don't need to "prove myself" in order to be treated like a colleague.

I've always been totally receptive to doing anything that will help the team. I have no problem changing dressings, pulling lines/tubes, doing rectal exams...whatever stuff that the intern doesn't want to do, I'm the first to volunteer. What I won't do is get your coffee, fax things, or any other task that has zero to do with medicine. Being part of the team doesn't mean being a slave or a secretary.

I haven't personally experienced this, but I can't help but wonder if the need to "earn" teaching wouldn't be diminished if the people actually teaching us were paid to teach us, because by and large, they aren't. All those tuition dollars and federal dollars aren't sent to the departments we're assigned to, let alone to the residents who do the majority of the teaching.
When I'm a resident, I can't say that I'm going to be super happy about going over an H+P written by an M3 on his/her first day and sending them back to the room to ask 14 questions they forgot to ask, while I have a bazillion patients to see, an attending pissed because of x, and said medical student is looking unhappy because I asked him to go run and get a chart/dressing/etc. Oh, and it's going to be 5 minutes before he comes back, because he has no idea where anything is on the floor.

Agree w/ above about the work hours changing a lot of the attitude about "scut". My residents have been pretty careful to make sure that I get every possible opportunity to see/do/participate, even while they themselves get stuck w/ scut. But I have friends who have yet to write a single note, and have barely seen a patient on their own. It's def. attending/resident/service dependent.

 

[EmersonAnne]

I really wish our rotations were structured more like those of our MD counterparts...I get the feeling I'd feel a lot different about them....then again, I think 3rd years taking a bunch of call might be the silliest thing imaginable so I'm not sad I missed out on that.

You don't take call?