Starting Salary if...

[Drwildcat15]

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What could one expect to make in their first few years out of D school provided they have a family practice to take over once they graduate? I am trying to decide between schools, temple vs penn, and thinking about cost. I live in an area where the ivy league name makes a difference, and my father (temple dental grad), family, and friends think penn would serve me better in the area we live, but that extra 150k or so is weighing on my mind.

So to get back to my original question, if you already have an established practice and a solid income upon graduating, is the extra money spent on school that big of a problem?

Any input is greatly appreciated.

 

[Sublimazing]

What could one expect to make in their first few years out of D school provided they have a family practice to take over once they graduate? I am trying to decide between schools, temple vs penn, and thinking about cost. I live in an area where the ivy league name makes a difference, and my father (temple dental grad), family, and friends think penn would serve me better in the area we live, but that extra 150k or so is weighing on my mind.

So to get back to my original question, if you already have an established practice and a solid income upon graduating, is the extra money spent on school that big of a problem?

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Temple sucks...find one of their recent grads and ask them.

 

[DentalFox]

Temple sucks...find one of their recent grads and ask them.

Dang! Temple is a good school clinically. If your patients demand for a name, then you should go to UPENN. Some people don't care where their dentist went to school. Some never even ask lol

 

[SM555]

Shouldn't you be asking your parents about the salary seeing as they own the place?

 

[SweetWater54]

Regardless of the fact you already have a practice waiting for you to take over, you should go to the cheaper school. 150k is a big difference. Your patients will not care what dental school you went to. If your dad went to Temple, do you think his patients are going to leave when you take over just because you went to Temple and not upenn? The answer is NO!!

 

[beannaithe]

Go to the cheapest school. Most people don't care where you went to dental school.

 

[Faux]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/tufts-vs-uconn.1117170/#post-16094534

Different schools but the cost difference is similar (150k for you vs 100k for the thread I posted numbers for). That means the cost difference for you is even bigger. Go to Upenn if you want to go, just know it'll cost you. Temple is a beautiful school, everything is brand new and have a grand patient base. Thats hard to beat, and you really don't know where you're going to be in 4 years. Time and time again I read on dental town that school name doesn't matter. But usually predents preach the opposite for whatever reason even though I'm sure more than half of them haven't bothered to calculated their month payment amounts when it comes to deciding between schools.

 

[cmcner]

It will take you over a year of work to pay the difference, remember it will be at a high interest rate and you will accrue interest during school so that $150,000 extra will be like $180-$190k by the time you graduate, plus you will have to pay taxes on your income before you put it towards your loans, so to pay off $180,000 with a 40% tax rate you will need to use $300,000 worth of income, which is more likely two full years of practice than one great year and that's two years without paying for food or rent. So in the end you get a degree with the same power and potential from Temple and you get to keep two extra years of salary. I didn't even include the interest that extra $150k will accrue after graduation because that's hard to do without knowing your repayment plan, so really ask if you will end up at least $300,000 better off if you decide to choose UPenn. I went to USC, I didn't have a cheaper option if I did I would have took it in a second, but if someone only gets into an expensive school I still think it's worth it to go rather than cross your fingers and wait another year hoping for a cheaper option.

 

[Daurang]

You can easily make at least $200k the first few years, since you already have a family practice. NO ONE will ask nor care where you went for dental school. Just go to the cheapest school and save your money toward early retirement.

 

[jda02624]

NO ONE will ask nor care where you went for dental school. Just go to the cheapest school and save your money toward early retirement.

100% agree. I've been in practice 10 years and can count on one hand the # of times someone has asked where I went to school. Patients won't consider that when judging you as a dentist. Save the $$$ and go the less expensive school.

Btw, Bill Cosby went to Temple and things worked out for him....for a while. 🙂

 

[Drwildcat15]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. I know most people say school doesn't mater as far as dental schools go, but im still not sure. In the back of my mind I still think where you go kinda stays with you. And isn't going to an ivy league school what most people strive for?

After my interviews at both schools I loved penn and the environment and they made me feel welcome, where as it was the complete opposite at temple. Temple seemed very disheveled and the kids who showed me around seemed pretty "eeyore" like... And in the large scheme of things 150k is a small amount of money, but at the same time, I assume its a big difference when you first get out of school.

I talked to my dad last night... In his best year, the office produced $1.2-1.3 mil. Last year he said it was about $800k working about 28-32 hrs a week. So what could I potentially make the first few years starting out?

 

[free99]

I talked to my dad last night... In his best year, the office produced $1.2-1.3 mil. Last year he said it was about $800k working about 28-32 hrs a week. So what could I potentially make the first few years starting out?

As an associate dentist you usually work off some percentage of your production, with a guaranteed base rate of $xxx/day, so your income would largely depend on how much you produced and how favorable that percentage is. But wouldn't your dad be the person to ask about this?

 

[Drwildcat15]

Im pretty sure I won't be an associate... I think I will be a partner, or he will "work for me." He has wanted to retire for a few years but is waiting for me. He said something about paying off student loans is better if I own the business because I can make it a business expense or something...

but so I guess my question is my first few years, what will I be able to produce and therefore make? Will my lack of experience hold me back for a while or can I expect for there to be little to no drop off when he leaves? especially if I work double his current hours?

 

[SEAHARP]

Im pretty sure I won't be an associate... I think I will be a partner, or he will "work for me." He has wanted to retire for a few years but is waiting for me. He said something about paying off student loans is better if I own the business because I can make it a business expense or something...

but so I guess my question is my first few years, what will I be able to produce and therefore make? Will my lack of experience hold me back for a while or can I expect for there to be little to no drop off when he leaves? especially if I work double his current hours?

Pretty easy to answer your questions.
1. Ask your dad how much he makes and go off of that.
2. Go to the cheaper school. As stated by nearly everyone, patients do not really care where you went to school.

 

[Bereno]

...Time and time again I read on dental town that school name doesn't matter. But usually predents preach the opposite for whatever reason...

This is a really unfortunate, but very apparent trend. Its seems that many predents have find it very hard for to really understand how much the cost of their education will impact their future (likely because they have not felt the ache of paying back loans yet). I fear that many predents have a mental fantasy about how great an IVY will be relative to cheaper schools. I think this blinds them to the very real and absolute certainty of a higher loan payment. Its ironic that such an ethereal belief/feeling about a school can trump the cold hard numbers. I guess I have always been too pragmatic to understand it haha.

 

[Faux]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. I know most people say school doesn't mater as far as dental schools go, but im still not sure. In the back of my mind I still think where you go kinda stays with you. And isn't going to an ivy league school what most people strive for?

After my interviews at both schools I loved penn and the environment and they made me feel welcome, where as it was the complete opposite at temple. Temple seemed very disheveled and the kids who showed me around seemed pretty "eeyore" like... And in the large scheme of things 150k is a small amount of money, but at the same time, I assume its a big difference when you first get out of school.

I talked to my dad last night... In his best year, the office produced $1.2-1.3 mil. Last year he said it was about $800k working about 28-32 hrs a week. So what could I potentially make the first few years starting out?

Thats not his net salary. Thats his gross. Theres still overhead, ect. The schools have a +200k difference between the two over 10 years. Maybe even 300k because most of your loans are gead plus.

People strive for different things. I got rejected by Columbia on dec 2 but even if I got accepted, I would have respectfully declined. I didn't think they were the best choice for me since ATM , I'm more about general dentistry. That and it was a pretty costly investment, even with looking at home (300k-ish). It's much more important to me to have a manageable debt load when I graduate. Interest chargers every day for 4 years. I see your 200k+ extra and I think of a down payment on a house, a new car, even a second dental office downpayment and a nice foundation for a family of if you decide to have one.

I'm suprised about your experience at temple actually. Besides the neighborhood, the sxhool was beautiful. Out of the interviews I had, temple students actually seemed the happiest, with Rutgers and buffalo a close second. All the students were laughing, having a good time and working hard in that brand new sparkling pre clinic room. They seemed genuinely happy.

Ivy League or not, your education will be vastly similar to temple. And many might argue that you would benefit more in the clinical aspect at temple than at Upenn. But if you think future you would apperciate more the upenn paper than the temple paper, pay the extra 200k.

 

[Daurang]

OP is already set on Ivy League and that's fine if you got the money to burn.

For those dirt poor souls like me...Beginning adulthood without debt is worth far more than a designer diploma.

 

[GD26]

I'm definitely not set on penn, I sent deposits to both and was initially dead set on temple. But a few people, mainly my father and other dentists and specialists, put the penn ideas in my head. Mainly that u get a certain kind of respect from an ivy, and that the penn name will serve me well in the area we live, which is dominated by penn grads, doctors, and dentists/specialists...

And money is a point of concern as I will be paying for d school myself. But I have no undergrad debt and won't have to pay for the practice. And At the end of my life, 150k over 50 years wIll be an insignificant amount of money. But I'm just trying to consider how drastically it will affect me at the beginning of my career.

Agh I really don't know. That extra 150k could be a new car my first few years out or renovating the office or whatever else. I'm just stuck haha

 

[FLOSS UR TEETH]

Go to Penn if you want to specialize.

Go to Temple for General.

Both are great schools just different aims.

 

[Silent Cool]

Go to Penn if you want to specialize. If you are planning on doing general do not go to Penn!!! Temple will clinically prepare you much much better for general, trust me. Plus it's about a Ferrari cheaper...

This.

If you want a guaranteed specialty position, go to PENN.

Otherwise, it doesn't matter.

 

[Sublimazing]

I just do not get how everyone completely disregards everything for price...some schools are way better at producing skilled general dentists than others...and let's not forget this is 4 years of your early and mid-20s, do you really want to spend it somewhere horrible? And school name can matter...when i pick out a physician i absolutely google the person and see where they went to medical school...and if you don't think patients do this you're crazy...they may not ask when theyre in the chair bc by then it's too late...but how many of them went across the street because your competition went to yale? You'll never know...

I am not saying this necessarily applies to the OP because he is in a very unique situation...but for people reading this, cost should be one of many factors leading to your choice in dental school.

 

[Faux]

I just do not get how everyone completely disregards everything for price...some schools are way better at producing skilled general dentists than others...and let's not forget this is 4 years of your early and mid-20s, do you really want to spend it somewhere horrible? And school name can matter...when i pick out a physician i absolutely google the person and see where they went to medical school...and if you don't think patients do this you're crazy...they may not ask when theyre in the chair bc by then it's too late...but how many of them went across the street because your competition went to yale? You'll never know...

I am not saying this necessarily applies to the OP because he is in a very unique situation...but for people reading this, cost should be one of many factors leading to your choice in dental school.

People who spend their young years in "awesome" cities like ny( nyu/ Columbia/) boston(tufts/bu) end up having an extreme hard time living in the city where they went to school at after graduation. How is that fair? A popular dental blogger had to move back home into their parents while working three jobs to make ends meet. That's the situlation many students are facing. Four years will go by in a flash, go somewhere affordable because the learning doesn't stop when you graduate.

 

[cmcner]

The general public isn't in as much awe of all ivy league schools as you'd think, most don't even know which schools are in the ivy league after Harvard and Yale. My cousins went to UPenn for nursing and I'd say like 50% of the time when they tell someone they went to UPenn people respond with, oh I had a (insert relative) who went to Penn State too. Their faces sink, total name value loss, not even worth trying to explain to the person who thinks UPenn and Penn State are the same, but that's why you shouldn't pay for a name, most people don't care as much about school name as those of us who have made it to the doctoral degree level. Temple is a good school too, sometimes the school where people look "eeyore" is just a school where people are working hard, they are tired, and getting good value for their education. I'm sure UPenn is a great school too, you just have to decide if it's $150,000 better before interest and taxes.

 

[Faux]

The general public isn't in as much awe of all ivy league schools as you'd think, most don't even know which schools are in the ivy league after Harvard and Yale. My cousins went to UPenn for nursing and I'd say like 50% of the time when they tell someone they went to UPenn people respond with, oh I had a (insert relative) who went to Penn State too. Their faces sink, total name value loss, not even worth trying to explain to the person who thinks UPenn and Penn State are the same, but that's why you shouldn't pay for a name, most people don't care as much about school name as those of us who have made it to the doctoral degree level. Temple is a good school too, sometimes the school where people look "eeyore" is just a school where people are working hard, they are tired, and getting good value for their education. I'm sure UPenn is a great school too, you just have to decide if it's $150,000 better before interest and taxes.

.... They aren't the same?😱 That explains the cost difference! I actually thoughts they were.