Starting to panic. Cycle not going well.

[Titus Andromedon]

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Thank you for your input!

 

[lowkey_md]

Do you have any important application updates? If so, I'd send them to any Ohio schools that accept pre-II updates. I'm not sure about Boonshoft or Toledo, but I know that OSU does.

 

[Titus Andromedon]

Do you have any important application updates? If so, I'd send them to any Ohio schools that accept pre-II updates. I'm not sure about Boonshoft or Toledo, but I know that OSU does.

I really don't have anything that would be worthy of an update.

 

[Frogger27]

only 14 schools with those stats??? I would have had a much different school list if I was you..But you still have 2 more interviews and a couple more to hear from that could yield another II.. After that it is up to you!

 

[Titus Andromedon]

only 14 schools with those stats??? I would have had a much different school list if I was you..But you still have 2 more interviews and a couple more to hear from that could yield another II.. After that it is up to you!

What would your school list have been?

 

[Gurkhali]

I'm a non-traditional applicant with a degree in and 2 years work experience in business. My MCAT was 520: 130/130/130/130. cGPA of 3.7 and sGPA of 3.9+. I have hospital volunteering, good shadowing with a few specialities, and decent non-clinical volunteering. I don't have any research though. Ohio resident. I applied to:

Pittsburgh - Rejected
Mayo - Rejected
Boston - Rejected
Case - II and was alternate listed
Cincinnati - II and was alternate listed
Hofstra - II
Indiana - II
Michigan
Ohio State
Saint Louis
Dartmouth
Georgetown
Toledo
Wright State

I know 4 IIs is good, but I'm starting to panic that I have been alternate listed at 2 schools I thought I had a great shot at, and my remaining interviews seem like unlikely acceptances. I definitely should have applied to more schools. Should I expect any more IIs or should I be preparing to have to reapply?

@LizzyM @Goro would appreciate any input. Thank you.

I'm in a similar spot with a bit higher GPA and lower Mcat. I find it weird that OsU has invited neither of us yet and Cincinnati did so early. Good luck to you friend. I ended up only getting into Wright state so far, waitlisted at Cincinnati and Rochester. 2 IIs left but I'm pretty happy

 

[WhittyPsyche]

What would your school list have been?

I would have followed the WARS with your application, with a ratio favoring the top schools, your state schools, and some safeties. For you stats/ECs I would have avoided Boston and Georgetown and probably Mayo too since I don't really see a great fit from what you said about your experience.

Overall if I had your app, I would have applied to 15-20, probably 20 to be safe and it would probably be more like 60% top schools, 20% safeties from the mid tier, and 20% your State schools + any schools that you were a mission fit.

 

[Titus Andromedon]

I would have followed the WARS with your application, with a ratio favoring the top schools, your state schools, and some safeties. For you stats/ECs I would have avoided Boston and Georgetown and probably Mayo too since I don't really see a great fit from what you said about your experience.

Overall if I had your app, I would have applied to 15-20, probably 20 to be safe and it would probably be more like 60% top schools, 20% safeties from the mid tier, and 20% your State schools + any schools that you were a mission fit.

I thought top schools wouldn't like my app with the complete lack of research. I agree Boston and Georgetown were bad choices.

 

[Frogger27]

What would your school list have been?

Case
OSU
Cinci
Toledo
Wright State
Harvard
Wash U
Yale
Stanford
U Chicago
U Penn
U VA
U MI
U VM
U WI
Jefferson
U IA
UCSF
UCLA,
Miami
Albert Einstein
Tulane
Loyola
Emory
BU
USC/Keck
JHU
Mayo
Pitt
Northwestern
NYU
Vanderbilt
Columbia
Sinai
Cornell
Duke
Hofstra
Temple
Drexel

I would have picked like 20-25 from this list... Your research is weak though so I would have targeted mid tiers. 14 is a little too little in my opinion, even for an applicant as strong as you. Surprised you have not gotten more love from the OH schools though. There is still plenty of time left, but if you have to reapply a bright side is there are a lot of schools you will not be a reapp at

Edit: Bolded are ones I would have for sure applied to (20) and then pick ~5 more that you wanted

 

[Titus Andromedon]

I'm in a similar spot with a bit higher GPA and lower Mcat. I find it weird that OsU has invited neither of us yet and Cincinnati did so early. Good luck to you friend. I ended up only getting into Wright state so far, waitlisted at Cincinnati and Rochester. 2 IIs left but I'm pretty happy

I am baffled at the lack of response from OSU. I have major legacy there also. Hopefully we will have some luck after the holidays. Congrats on your Wright State acceptance. I haven't heard anything from them. Good luck with your remaining IIs.

 

[Frogger27]

I am baffled at the lack of response from OSU. I have major legacy there also. Hopefully we will have some luck after the holidays. Congrats on your Wright State acceptance. I haven't heard anything from them. Good luck with your remaining IIs.

I am an OH resident as well and have heard nothing from Wright State, Toledo or OSU

 

[Titus Andromedon]

Case
OSU
Cinci
Toledo
Wright State
Harvard
Wash U
Yale
Stanford
U Chicago
U Penn
U VA
U MI
U VM
U WI
Jefferson
U IA
UCSF
UCLA,
Miami
Albert Einstein
Tulane
Loyola
Emory
BU
USC/Keck
JHU
Mayo
Pitt
Northwestern
NYU
Vanderbilt
Columbia
Sinai
Cornell
Duke
Hofstra
Temple
Drexel

I would have picked like 20-25 from this list... Your research is weak though so I would have targeted mid tiers. 14 is a little too little in my opinion, even for an applicant as strong as you. Surprised you have not gotten more love from the OH schools though. There is still plenty of time left, but if you have to reapply a bright side is there are a lot of schools you will not be a reapp at

Thanks. I'll use this when I reapply. I thought the top tiers were out with my lack of research, and perhaps my MCAT is getting me screened out of lower tiers like Toledo and Wright State. I honestly just wanted to go to Ohio State, Case, or Cincinnati and I guess overestimated my chances of getting into one of them.

 

[Med Ed]

What would your school list have been?

I would have considered Drexel, MCW, Oakland, Temple, Tulane, VCU, and Vermont for sure, plus 2-3 more private "reach" schools.

You should not panic. There is still a lot of time for things to tip you way.

 

[WhittyPsyche]

I thought top schools wouldn't like my app with the complete lack of research. I agree Boston and Georgetown were bad choices.

Some are more research focused than others, like probably would avoid Stanford whose mission is focused on researchers (actually add Pittsburgh to the wasted list, very research focused), but on the other hand you may have luck with some of the NY schools (Columbia, NYU, Icahn Cornell), or Yale, WashU (I've seen them take no research for good stats) or if you have a particularly unique story or interests you didn't mention here even Harvard and Hopkins may have been worth tossing your hat in the ring.

Would have probably added Emory and Northwestern.

 

[Med Ed]

Should I expect any more IIs or should I be preparing to have to reapply?

Everyone should be preparing to reapply until the first acceptance letter is received.

 

[Titus Andromedon]

Everyone should be preparing to reapply until the first acceptance letter is received.

What should I improve upon? Just add more volunteering hours and try to get a research gig?

 

[flapjack3d]

You might get another II or two. Historically 4 IIs means you'll probably get in somewhere. I would do some practice interviews. Might even email your interviewers at the schools you got wait listed at (if they were recent enough to remember you) and ask for feedback in a nonneedy way.

 

[Med Ed]

What should I improve upon? Just add more volunteering hours and try to get a research gig?

Volunteering is always good. I doubt that research will prove to be your undoing, and at this point trying to land a lab gig just to pad your app would probably be seen for what it is: box-checking.

I see plenty of apps from people who are clearly very bright and carry great numbers, but they cannot articulate any sort of compelling interest in medicine. With that in mind, and with 2 years of working in the business world under your belt, what is your compelling interest in medicine?

 

[Titus Andromedon]

Volunteering is always good. I doubt that research will prove to be your undoing, and at this point trying to land a lab gig just to pad your app would probably be seen for what it is: box-checking.

I see plenty of apps from people who are clearly very bright and carry great numbers, but they cannot articulate any sort of compelling interest in medicine. With that in mind, and with 2 years of working in the business world under your belt, what is your compelling interest in medicine?

I would rather not type out the whole thing here, but I thought that I did a decent job of laying out my interests in medicine in my last interview. My other interview probably could have been better because it was MMI and I had difficulty in that format. I'm frankly at a loss of what to do at this point. I practiced a lot for my last interview and my interviewer stated that I came across well and not nervous at all, which I thought was positive.

 

[libahli]

I'm a nontrad pretty similar to you (though I applied to more schools). With a few acceptances and a few waitlists (and a few I haven't heard back after the interview yet), here are my thoughts.

I interviewed at all places generally within the span of a month and didn't really vary my answers much. I know I interview just fine and I'm certain my answers are meaningful and make sense. So my performance has been fairly stable and I don't think it's possible to blame my different outcomes on that.

That being said, every single school is evaluating us for fit (perhaps even more than they do for traditional applicants)**. The places I've been accepted at, I felt the fit was great myself. The places I've been waitlisted at, while I think I'd do okay there, the fit just wasn't right and I sensed it right away. So it's not that I think I messed up my interview or that the school was being picky. I truly think that fit is such an important factor that yes, it means the difference between a waitlisted and an acceptance, EVEN when you're a good candidate.

FWIW, I don't think MMIs are beneficial for us nontrads. The one MMI I had, I didn't feel like I had the opportunity to really express who I am, which is super important for us nontrads as we generally bring something different to the table.

My advice to you is to look at your remaining interviews as completely new opportunities. You have a shot at each one, regardless of your prior waitlists. Don't panic yet, but do keep up your volunteering, etc. Also make sure there truly is nothing deficient in your ECs as a just in case for next cycle.

Also, you might still get even more IIs - you never know!


***and ahem to the school that waitlisted me where half my interview was spent with the interviewer bashing one of the presidential candidates (I had not expressed an opinion at all on either candidate so the bashing was entirely unprovoked). Just know that I was not impressed. At all.

 

[Goro]

You have four IIs and are still alive on two wait lists. Most applicants are reject, and of those who get IIs, most get one, and a single acceptance.

So, this is no time to be thinking about reapplying. Just work on improving your interview skills.

I'm a non-traditional applicant with a degree in and 2 years work experience in business. My MCAT was 520. cGPA of 3.7 and sGPA of 3.9+. I have hospital volunteering, good shadowing with a few specialities, and decent non-clinical volunteering. I don't have any research though. Ohio resident. I applied to:

Pittsburgh - Rejected
Mayo - Rejected
Boston - Rejected
Case - II and was alternate listed
Cincinnati - II and was alternate listed
Hofstra - II
Indiana - II
Michigan
Ohio State
Saint Louis
Dartmouth
Georgetown
Toledo
Wright State

I know 4 IIs is good, but I'm starting to panic that I have been alternate listed at 2 schools I thought I had a great shot at, and my remaining interviews seem like unlikely acceptances. I definitely should have applied to more schools. Should I expect any more IIs or should I be preparing to have to reapply?

@LizzyM @Goro would appreciate any input. Thank you.

 

[bigindian4891]

I am baffled at the lack of response from OSU. I have major legacy there also. Hopefully we will have some luck after the holidays. Congrats on your Wright State acceptance. I haven't heard anything from them. Good luck with your remaining IIs.

Same here, Ohio resident, havent heard back from OSU, Toledo, or OUHCOM. Nor have most of my Ohio friends. So frustrating!

 

[Med Ed]

I'm frankly at a loss of what to do at this point.

There isn't much to do, other than consider this an exercise in patience. Just keep plodding along with your ongoing EC's and hope that something good happens. Considering how short and top heavy your school list was, you aren't having a bad cycle.

 

[LizzyM]

I'm a non-traditional applicant with a degree in and 2 years work experience in business. My MCAT was 520. cGPA of 3.7 and sGPA of 3.9+. I have hospital volunteering, good shadowing with a few specialities, and decent non-clinical volunteering. I don't have any research though. Ohio resident. I applied to:

Pittsburgh - Rejected
Mayo - Rejected
Boston - Rejected
Case - II and was alternate listed
Cincinnati - II and was alternate listed
Hofstra - II
Indiana - II
Michigan
Ohio State
Saint Louis
Dartmouth
Georgetown
Toledo
Wright State

I know 4 IIs is good, but I'm starting to panic that I have been alternate listed at 2 schools I thought I had a great shot at, and my remaining interviews seem like unlikely acceptances. I definitely should have applied to more schools. Should I expect any more IIs or should I be preparing to have to reapply?

@LizzyM @Goro would appreciate any input. Thank you.

There is still hope. The real hole in your application is the lack of research. If you can stomach it, getting a job in that "industry" and reapplying in 2018 might be just the ticket. That said, I'd hold off on making any move until after Mardi Gras. I have hope for you.

 

[Titus Andromedon]

There is still hope. The real hole in your application is the lack of research. If you can stomach it, getting a job in that "industry" and reapplying in 2018 might be just the ticket. That said, I'd hold off on making any move until after Mardi Gras. I have hope for you.

Oh dear, I would be so old in 2018. Thank you for your input.

 

[WhittyPsyche]

Oh dear, I would be so old in 2018. Thank you for your input.

If you would be "so old" in 2018, then you're already old now. Get over it. Seriously. Do you want to do it three times?

 

[libahli]

There is still hope. The real hole in your application is the lack of research. If you can stomach it, getting a job in that "industry" and reapplying in 2018 might be just the ticket. That said, I'd hold off on making any move until after Mardi Gras. I have hope for you.

The OP will likely have a very difficult time landing a research position with a non-science degree if they aren't currently in school. As someone with a very similar background, I couldn't find even volunteer research because I just didn't have the connections nor the qualifications that most labs wanted.

That being said, a complete lack of research is not the end all be all. I had none and I still got a few acceptances already this cycle.

 

[partypantss]

If you would be "so old" in 2018, then you're already old now. Get over it. Seriously. Do you want to do it three times?

Third time applicant here; he or she does NOT want to do it three times.

 

[LizzyM]

The OP will likely have a very difficult time landing a research position with a non-science degree if they aren't currently in school. As someone with a very similar background, I couldn't find even volunteer research because I just didn't have the connections nor the qualifications that most labs wanted.

That being said, a complete lack of research is not the end all be all. I had none and I still got a few acceptances already this cycle.

I've had med students with undergrad degrees in the humanities who landed wet lab jobs after college! It can be done. The OP has a good sGPA. The vast majority of applicants have research experience and that is what is missing from the mix. The OP is "good enough" for the top tier if that deficit was corrected but the middle tier look at someone with that pedigree and expect them to go higher up the food chain.

 

[libahli]

I've had med students with undergrad degrees in the humanities who landed wet lab jobs after college! It can be done. The OP has a good sGPA. The vast majority of applicants have research experience and that is what is missing from the mix. The OP is "good enough" for the top tier if that deficit was corrected but the middle tier look at someone with that pedigree and expect them to go higher up the food chain.

I didn't say it's impossible, it's just really, really hard. Believe me, I tried for over half a year! My numbers and other ECs are also "good enough" for the top tier (and in fact I received several IIs and an acceptance to a top tier). I also received the same from very good midtiers. I don't disagree that research would have made me an even better candidate, but I therefore don't think it's absolutely critical.

However, my point is merely that it can be really hard to get an "in" for research positions when one has no connections (because not in school anymore) and when one gets passed over on all positions online (because there are other more "qualified" candidates even at entry-level - people who have taken more science classes beyond the prereqs which most of us true nontrad said have not).

By all means, OP, if you can get a research position, take it! But it's not like you'll be completely damning your application if you can't line something up.

 

[libertyyne]

Is wet lab research necessary ? Couldnt OP work in clinical research, or public health research ? Or heck maybe even policy research. Humanities students can land all of those jobs.

 

[Titus Andromedon]

I've had med students with undergrad degrees in the humanities who landed wet lab jobs after college! It can be done. The OP has a good sGPA. The vast majority of applicants have research experience and that is what is missing from the mix. The OP is "good enough" for the top tier if that deficit was corrected but the middle tier look at someone with that pedigree and expect them to go higher up the food chain.

Are schools likely considering my lack of research before they invite me for an interview and saying that I could be accepted without it if my interview is good enough? Or are they likely considering it after the interview, and I wouldn't have been likely to receive an acceptance anyway?

 

[doctorbob23]

You still have a good chance...especially after April

 

[Titus Andromedon]

You still have a good chance...especially after April

Do you mean getting off of alternate lists at that point?

 

[Strauss&Co.]

Right there with you on the panic train. Unfortunately, if I am not accepted this cycle I will be moving on to smaller and lesser things.

 

[Titus Andromedon]

Right there with you on the panic train. Unfortunately, if I am not accepted this cycle I will be moving on to smaller and lesser things.

I'm sorry to hear that. Looking at your previous posts, I'm surprised that you haven't had any luck with your stats.

 

[Med Ed]

Are schools likely considering my lack of research before they invite me for an interview and saying that I could be accepted without it if my interview is good enough? Or are they likely considering it after the interview, and I wouldn't have been likely to receive an acceptance anyway?

Plenty of people get admitted to medical school without research, especially if they did not major in science in undergrad. IMHO the main benefit of doing research is that it can net you a strong LOR.

 

[Strauss&Co.]

I'm sorry to hear that. Looking at your previous posts, I'm surprised that you haven't had any luck with your stats.

You and me both, my friend. The fact that I have only received two interview invites (both at the same school) over 49 applications suggests to me that either I'm getting submarined in a letter or these schools really, really, despise my essays.

 

[libertyyne]

You and me both, my friend. The fact that I have only received two interview invites (both at the same school) over 49 applications suggests to me that either I'm getting submarined in a letter or these schools really, really, despise my essays.

What do your stats look like?

 

[Strauss&Co.]

What do your stats look like?

Brief overview:

37 MCAT, 3.73-3.74 GPA from a top 10 liberal arts, 1 gap year spent working full time in an emergency room with two recommendations from physicians with whom I worked intimately, 1 gap year getting a master's degree from an Ivy in a clinically-applicable field, with over 600 hours of clinical research conducted at said Ivy's medical center (currently in progress). Though I majored outside of the sciences, I both volunteered and worked as a science tutor as an undergraduate.

 

[bananafish94]

Brief overview:

37 MCAT, 3.73-3.74 GPA from a top 10 liberal arts, 1 gap year spent working full time in an emergency room with two recommendations from physicians with whom I worked intimately, 1 gap year getting a master's degree from an Ivy in a clinically-applicable field, with over 600 hours of clinical research conducted at said Ivy's medical center (currently in progress). Though I majored outside of the sciences, I both volunteered and worked as a science tutor as an undergraduate.

There's absolutely no reason why you shouldn't have your pick of the litter with those numbers. Have you gotten any interviews?

 

[summergirl]

Brief overview:

37 MCAT, 3.73-3.74 GPA from a top 10 liberal arts, 1 gap year spent working full time in an emergency room with two recommendations from physicians with whom I worked intimately, 1 gap year getting a master's degree from an Ivy in a clinically-applicable field, with over 600 hours of clinical research conducted at said Ivy's medical center (currently in progress). Though I majored outside of the sciences, I both volunteered and worked as a science tutor as an undergraduate.

I stalked your post history a bit and was very surprised to see that this is your second application cycle. With your stats I'd expect you to be scooped up by a top 20 before your first cycle is over. Could it be your PS? Did you only get interviewed at one school within those two years? This is a very strange situation....

 

[WhittyPsyche]

I stalked your post history a bit and was very surprised to see that this is your second application cycle. With your stats I'd expect you to be scooped up by a top 20 before your first cycle is over. Could it be your PS? Did you only get interviewed at one school within those two years? This is a very strange situation....

It is more than the PS given the post-II rejection at his/her state school I think.

 

[TaroBubbleTea]

You and me both, my friend. The fact that I have only received two interview invites (both at the same school) over 49 applications suggests to me that either I'm getting submarined in a letter or these schools really, really, despise my essays.

It's probably a problem with one of your letters moreso than the PS. If you are planning on reapplying, I suggest you get new letters. There's little reason that you shouldn't be getting more IIs with your stats and experiences.

 

[libertyyne]

Brief overview:

37 MCAT, 3.73-3.74 GPA from a top 10 liberal arts, 1 gap year spent working full time in an emergency room with two recommendations from physicians with whom I worked intimately, 1 gap year getting a master's degree from an Ivy in a clinically-applicable field, with over 600 hours of clinical research conducted at said Ivy's medical center (currently in progress). Though I majored outside of the sciences, I both volunteered and worked as a science tutor as an undergraduate.

When were you complete and what was your school list

 

[Strauss&Co.]

To try and answer all of you in one post:

The first time around I applied late and the cycle (secondaries submitted in September and October) and mostly to the more selective schools, a total of 13. I chalked my lack of success up to a combination of those two factors. This cycle, I was complete much earlier (secondaries submitted in July and August), and expanded my list to 36, including the more selective schools (Ivys, Northwestern, UChicago, Emory, Georgetown, Duke, BU, NYU, Tufts, Einstein, Sinai, Mayo etc.) as well as some more "target" schools, (Minnesota, the Big10, Wake, UNC & VTC (whether or not I would consider these "targets" is up for debate, and I would understand if several of you replied by saying that I was still aiming too high), Loyola-Chicago, Keck, NYMC etc.).

It could be my personal statement (I changed it for the second cycle). I did take a rather unusual approach to it, but I shopped it for feedback and got many positive comments. Perhaps it's not landing with the people who read it in admissions. Still, the fact that only my state institution wants to even bother with an interview is troubling. I went into that interview first cycle exceptionally nervous, knowing that, since it was the only interview I got, everything was riding on it. Consequently, it was not my best interview.

I am worried about the possibility of a submarine letter, but at this point it does not matter. For several reasons, I will not be applying again if I do not get accepted this round. I appreciate all feedback though. I think I really just needed to vent out a little bit .

 

[CoachBoat]

The OP will likely have a very difficult time landing a research position with a non-science degree if they aren't currently in school. As someone with a very similar background, I couldn't find even volunteer research because I just didn't have the connections nor the qualifications that most labs wanted.

That being said, a complete lack of research is not the end all be all. I had none and I still got a few acceptances already this cycle.

It's not too difficult to land a research assistant position. I have a humanities background (undergrad major and MA), and I've been working at a big research medical college since I graduated.