Starting to regret going to a DO School?!? Thoughts on reapplying/transferring?!

[MDFUTURE123]

This is a feeling I have started to obtain gradually and it has caused me to have a lot of mixed feelings. I cant help but notice the differences between my friends and colleagues in MD schools vs what I am doing in my DO school. They have a plethora of research opportunities and their clinical rotations are at HUGE medical centers that have every department/specialty possible. My rotations will be scattered all over the place in sub-par hospitals. I'm also very worried about residencies and my application because I want to do a competitive surgical speciality which are notorious for not being very DO friendly... Before anyone screams at me that DO's are in every speciality, yes I know that, but the chances are statistically lower, especially now with boards becoming pass/fail.
I also detest the fact that we have to take double the board exams, which is extremely stressful and expensive, when the USMLE is really the only exam that matters, even if it is pass/fail.
My feelings have also been exacerbated by my own encounters of DO bias, in hospitals and talking with my mentor physicians and with patients who constantly ask what a DO is, and me having to explain it time and time again.
Taking classes in OPP have made me realize that I don't really believe in this type of treatment
Does anyone else feel this way? Would it be absolutely foolish of me apply again while in continuing medical school and start over at an MD school? I doubt this has ever been done before. If anyone has ever had this feeling, does it go away? Does it even matter once you reach residency?

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[scoopdaboop]

 

[Goro]

Nope. You knew what you were getting into when you matriculated. You made your bed and now you lie on it.

Consider OMM and COMLEX as a tax on your mucking up your GPA and/or your MCAT...or whatever it was that prevented you from getting into an MD school.

Suggest seeing your school's counseling center for your envy that's eating at you, and so you don't fall further down the sinkhole of being a self hating DO.

Thia is NOT giving medical advice.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

This is a feeling I have started to obtain gradually and it has caused me to have a lot of mixed feelings. I cant help but notice the differences between my friends and colleagues in MD schools vs what I am doing in my DO school. They have a plethora of research opportunities and their clinical rotations are at HUGE medical centers that have every department/specialty possible. My rotations will be scattered all over the place in sub-par hospitals. I'm also very worried about residencies and my application because I want to do a competitive surgical speciality which are notorious for not being very DO friendly... Before anyone screams at me that DO's are in every speciality, yes I know that, but the chances are statistically lower, especially now with boards becoming pass/fail.
I also detest the fact that we have to take double the board exams, which is extremely stressful and expensive, when the USMLE is really the only exam that matters, even if it is pass/fail.
My feelings have also been exacerbated by my own encounters of DO bias, in hospitals and talking with my mentor physicians and with patients who constantly ask what a DO is, and me having to explain it time and time again.
Taking classes in OPP have made me realize that I don't really believe in this type of treatment
Does anyone else feel this way? Would it be absolutely foolish of me apply again while in continuing medical school and start over at an MD school? I doubt this has ever been done before. If anyone has ever had this feeling, does it go away? Does it even matter once you reach residency?

You matriculated already? I would say close to no chance. If you were accepted already but did not matriculate already then it is a different story.

my 2 cents: grass is always greener. Hedonic treadmill theory. Once/if you got into an MD school, you’d be discontent with not going to T20. Then not matching derm. Then not having a tenure track position. And so on.

Happiness stems from being born with ideal brain chemistry for the most part.

Consider yourself lucky. Many people will not be able to enter medical profession as either an MD or DO.

If you decide to do this anyway, don’t drop out until you have acceptance in hand. Dropping out and reapplying would be myopic

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

Yes, it would be foolish to leave medical school to once again apply to medical school. Does the DO route inherently have more hurdles? Sure. Should you have applied to your particular DO school if you really detest the clinical affiliated sites and are worried about lack of research? Perhaps. But if this was perhaps your only opportunity to pursue medicine, then, well, what makes you think you'd have better luck starting over?

Grind it out. If you want to pursue a competitive surgical specialty, you'll go out of your way to carve out and create opportunities for yourself to stand out.

Starting over would be a grave mistake, and likely a grave mistake even if you did somehow matriculate to a MD program and then submit your ERAS to said specialties.

 

[scoopdaboop]

The OMM you actually need to know for board exams is fairly simple. Schools harp on OMM differently. some are more of a "take off your clothes so we can feel this and that", others are (like where I go thankfully) monkey see monkey do, lift your partners shirt up if they allow it etc. OMM exams are easy. You can cram it in. OMM itself is overblown. COMLEX exam other than paying for it which does suck, is irrelevant.

Going to a DO school obviously has its downsides, but as someone in rotations currently, it is what you make of it. Want to read upto date on every patient case you encounter? Go ahead. Want to do uworld during downtime to honor shelf, do that too. Want to just take it easy and pass, and match into IM or Rads or path? That's the kush life. You're crap out of luck (mostly) for surgical subspecialties, but that can be a blessing in disguise.

Everyone dreams of ortho before coming in as a M1, Idk why other than big burly guys do it and you (can) make a yacht load of money, but then they realize they're not the student cut out for it, or you realize you like anesthesia better in rotations etc, and you'll be thankful you go to rotations in a place where you're not waking up at 3 am to round on surgery.

 

[gyngyn]

You cannot transfer from a DO program into an MD school.
They are accredited by different organizations.

 

[Blueprint Med School]

I would not do this. Even if you hate the school or the philosophy, a wise person once said "you don't have to do it forever". Get your degree and take the scenic route if you need to to get to the specialty you want.


David D MD - USMLE and MCAT Tutor
Med School Tutors

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Don't drop out and attempt to go to an MD school later. Keep your competetive surgical sub dream. If you can't put together a competitive app at a DO school, you won't be able to do it at an MD school. Sure research opportunities are more plentiful, but research is only one box to check on a residency app. There are opportunities, even take a research gap year if need be. You still need board scores, class rank, LORs, Dean's Letter, etc. Good luck and best wishes!

 

[DrDummyAccount]

N=1, but the most brilliant, caring, knowledgeable doctor I’ve ever rotated with at my US MD program is a DO.

 

[candbgirl]

N=1, but the most brilliant, caring, knowledgeable doctor I’ve ever rotated with at my US MD program is a DO.

I agree. My personal infectious disease doc( at one of the top med centers in the USA) is a DO. She’s brilliant, heavily into research and the kindest doc I’ve ever dealt with.And she actually saved my life so there’s that too. If you want to quit, quit. But don’t do it because you think being a DO will hinder your professional opportunities. Just as being a MD won’t insure your professional success. It’s really all up to you.

 

[Nontraditional premed]

I can see where you are coming from. From your words, you are having doubts about taking the DO route. You are tired of having to study both the USMLE and COMLEX. You are troubled that you may not be competitive to get into surgery residency compared to those who carry an MD degree.

First, I believe in you. Second, you are indeed smart enough to get into surgery. Third, don’t let the MD letters bother you.
If I am dying, I assure you, I will not stop a doctor from doing CPR and say, “I’m sorry what is your MCAT score? Why don’t you have an MD? What is your COMLEX score? What is your USMLE score? HELL no!!!! I just want to freaking live!
Take it from me, I am in my mid 30s and I am currently applying to DO. MD or DO, if they can save my ass, lez get it!

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

You cannot transfer from a DO program into an MD school.
They are accredited by different organizations.

I’ve seen at least one MD school mention accepting DO students for transfers (alongside Carrib students). How often that actually happens is a different question altogether.

 

[lumya]

I recently listened to a talk given by Biden's physician, Dr. O'Connor who's a DO, and he talked about how much he liked his degree because as an osteopath he "cures with violence." He's a couple decades out of med school and no one bats an eye what acronyms are behind his name. He embraces and uses it as an opportunity to educate people that DOs and MDs are really not that different.

You have two options of either a) not being a doctor, or b) having to work a bit harder to be the subspecialty that you want. Personally, I don't think any hurdle to a sub-specialty is worth it for me to decide to not be a doctor anymore, but that's the decision you have to make for yourself.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I recently listened to a talk given by Biden's physician, Dr. O'Connor who's a DO, and he talked about how much he liked his degree because as an osteopath he "cures with violence." He's a couple decades out of med school and no one bats an eye what acronyms are behind his name. He embraces and uses it as an opportunity to educate people that DOs and MDs are really not that different.

You have two options of either a) not being a doctor, or b) having to work a bit harder to be the subspecialty that you want. Personally, I don't think any hurdle to a sub-specialty is worth it for me to decide to not be a doctor anymore, but that's the decision you have to make for yourself.

Are there DO’s in neurosurgery?

also isn’t this because there is a higher concentration of DOs in the military and president’s doctor is usually a military person?

 

[deleted966837]

Are there DO’s in neurosurgery?

Yes absolutely and I know PCOM even has it's own neurosurgery residency program Neurosurgery Residents | Graduate Medical Education at PCOM. Although it does appear that only 6 total DOs matched into neurosurgery last cycle https://mk0nrmp3oyqui6wqfm.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/MRM-Results_and-Data_2021.pdf

 

[lumya]

Are there DO’s in neurosurgery?

also isn’t this because there is a higher concentration of DOs in the military and president’s doctor is usually a military person?

I believe every White House physician before Dr. Conley (Trump's physician) were MDs, so the two most recent have been DOs. I believe a higher percentage of DO students take the military scholarship due to how high tuition is, but I'm not sure the actual breakdown in the military (since there are overall more MD students than DO students).

And can DO match into neurosurgery? According to the Match data, 14 DO students applied and 6 got neurosurgery residencies. They only make up less than 3% of the total neurosurgery residents, but there may be some other factors (i.e. low step scores). But I guess I was trying to make the statement that even though it is more difficult, I don't think that reduced chance would've stopped me from continuing a medical education, especially in the first year when it's not a ride or die specialty for me. I think there's lot of alternative surgical specialties or other fields that would 10000x be better than not being a doctor at all.

 

[dabears505]

If you did not get in to md schools and only got into do schools, even if your plan to get into MD schools works, I don't you would be in the tip quartile at that school to get into a high end specialty.

Be thankful and happy where you are make the most of your opportunity.

 

[The Med-Peds Dude]

Are there DO’s in neurosurgery?

also isn’t this because there is a higher concentration of DOs in the military and president’s doctor is usually a military person?

Yes, and very yes

 

[Doc_Ock]

Despite what others have said on this thread there actually have been DO's who transferred to MD schools. Alternatively they have to start again as a first-year at the MD school but it has happened.

 

[macman]

This is a feeling I have started to obtain gradually and it has caused me to have a lot of mixed feelings. I cant help but notice the differences between my friends and colleagues in MD schools vs what I am doing in my DO school. They have a plethora of research opportunities and their clinical rotations are at HUGE medical centers that have every department/specialty possible. My rotations will be scattered all over the place in sub-par hospitals. I'm also very worried about residencies and my application because I want to do a competitive surgical speciality which are notorious for not being very DO friendly... Before anyone screams at me that DO's are in every speciality, yes I know that, but the chances are statistically lower, especially now with boards becoming pass/fail.
I also detest the fact that we have to take double the board exams, which is extremely stressful and expensive, when the USMLE is really the only exam that matters, even if it is pass/fail.
My feelings have also been exacerbated by my own encounters of DO bias, in hospitals and talking with my mentor physicians and with patients who constantly ask what a DO is, and me having to explain it time and time again.
Taking classes in OPP have made me realize that I don't really believe in this type of treatment
Does anyone else feel this way? Would it be absolutely foolish of me apply again while in continuing medical school and start over at an MD school? I doubt this has ever been done before. If anyone has ever had this feeling, does it go away? Does it even matter once you reach residency?

There are a lot of good replies here so I won’t echo those here

so I am a DO with over 10 years in practice. I went to Des Moines. Ended up doing my residency and fellowship at the Mayo Clinic

first, and if I can be blunt, looking at your concerns, it sounds like DO school probably wasn’t the best choice as you seem highly interested in research and a competitive surgical specialty which would really be the two main reasons not to go to DO school

now that being said, if you have other interests, there’s no reason you can’t make the most out of it and I would encourage you to do so.

For example I had a classmate who was really interested in colorectal surgery and I think eventually he ended up doing gyn surgery, he and his wife both became OB/GYN‘s, she loves OB and he just does gyn surgery and they seem happy as clams

there are some specialties where DO may actually be preferred such as PMR. Other specialties that come to mind that have high percentages of DOs would be anesthesia, neurology

I would encourage you, if you stay there, to go all in and not be an 'MD snob', so to speak, having an inferiority complex it’s only going to do you a disservice over the long term

I know a lot of people think OMM/OMT it’s a bunch of hogwash but it is a fantastic opportunity to learn your anatomy outside of the textbook, gain a very valuable set of skills, and depending what type of specialty you do could actually be a very rewarding part of your practice both for you and your patients. Unless you think PT is witchcraft, then OMM/OMT should seem rational and appropriate for select pts

without a doubt, taking the DO pathway can have its own special set of challenges but for self starters it can also be an excellent opportunity and lead to a very rewarding career. My school had a very fragmented clinical rotation set up, and our primarily affiliated hospital actually closed during my second year. I turned that negative into a huge positive and my wife and I basically traveled the country in a van and I rotated it some of the best hospitals in the country and made a lot of great connections. It was a little more work to schedule my rotations but actually a lot of my MD medical student colleagues were jealous of my experience

You may have to shift your perspective for that to come to fruition

 

[laster67]

Nope. You knew what you were getting into when you matriculated. You made your bed and now you lie on it.

Consider OMM and COMLEX as a tax on your mucking up your GPA and/or your MCAT...or whatever it was that prevented you from getting into an MD school.

Suggest seeing your school's counseling center for your envy that's eating at you, and so you don't fall further down the sinkhole of being a self hating DO.

Thia is NOT giving medical advice.

Is this sarcasm?

Disparaging the merit of going to a DO school is not a very healthy outlook to propagate or have for yourself. There are plenty of reasons why very intelligent and hard-working people may end up at a DO instead of MD. And there are a lot of very intelligent and diligent DO students too.

 

[Shunsui]

Everyone, especially DOs, should seriously consider if they could see themselves in primary care before pursuing medicine.

The additional board exams and bias against DO are real, unfortunately -- this is not new.

 

[lumya]

Is this sarcasm?

Disparaging the merit of going to a DO school is not a very healthy outlook to propagate or have for yourself. There are plenty of reasons why very intelligent and hard-working people may end up at a DO instead of MD. And there are a lot of very intelligent and diligent DO students too.

Goro is probably one of the greatest advocates for DO education here. But that doesn’t change the fact that there are barriers. He is not saying that DO physicians are inherently worse, rather that it’s harder to be a 40 publication, academic cancer cardiovascularneurosurgeon coming from a DO school. People who want to be that type probably knew early and worked hard to get the GPA/MCAT, extracurriculars, etc required to attend a prestigious MD school.

The type of physician you are isn’t dependent on your grades but you have to be realistic with what you can achieve. Being a DO isn’t worse, but it makes some specialties harder to achieve and you can either adapt or whine. OP knew what they were getting into and if they applied both MD and DO, then they should pivot to better achieve what they can with what they have instead of wondering about hypotheticals.

 

[candbgirl]

Is this sarcasm?

Disparaging the merit of going to a DO school is not a very healthy outlook to propagate or have for yourself. There are plenty of reasons why very intelligent and hard-working people may end up at a DO instead of MD. And there are a lot of very intelligent and diligent DO students too.

Really? You do know that @Goro is an ADCOM member and faculty member at a DO school, right? He spends the majority of his time on here encouraging applicants to apply to DO schools, but only if they will attend a DO school if it’s the only acceptance they receive. He is well aware of the issues students face coming from a DO school and the inferiority mind set many of these students develop. @Goro Has been here for years and gives great advice.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

@Goro is faculty at a DO school. I read his comment as advice a"Dutch Uncle" might give,...blunt. We see students on SDN who have buyers remorse when admitted to a DO school and complain bitterly about learning OMM, which actually makes them a DO. This is often described as a self loathing DO, someone who wished they had gotten into an MD school, but chose DO as an alternative, and now are unhappy. I did a university residency and later a fellowship where I became faculty at what many consider a top 10 medical school. I was the 2nd DO to be on faculty at the university hospital. I later was faculty at an established DO school. I have students doing residencies at East coast uni's, one at the number 1 program in the country. I had to jump through more hoops than my MD wife many years ago. My students face more hoops than I did, but manage to jump through them just the same. It depends on one's level of desire and how hard they want to work. All I know is that students complaining about the hoops still have to jump through them, or not. It's their choice.

 

[wook]

This is a feeling I have started to obtain gradually and it has caused me to have a lot of mixed feelings. I cant help but notice the differences between my friends and colleagues in MD schools vs what I am doing in my DO school. They have a plethora of research opportunities and their clinical rotations are at HUGE medical centers that have every department/specialty possible. My rotations will be scattered all over the place in sub-par hospitals. I'm also very worried about residencies and my application because I want to do a competitive surgical speciality which are notorious for not being very DO friendly... Before anyone screams at me that DO's are in every speciality, yes I know that, but the chances are statistically lower, especially now with boards becoming pass/fail.
I also detest the fact that we have to take double the board exams, which is extremely stressful and expensive, when the USMLE is really the only exam that matters, even if it is pass/fail.
My feelings have also been exacerbated by my own encounters of DO bias, in hospitals and talking with my mentor physicians and with patients who constantly ask what a DO is, and me having to explain it time and time again.
Taking classes in OPP have made me realize that I don't really believe in this type of treatment
Does anyone else feel this way? Would it be absolutely foolish of me apply again while in continuing medical school and start over at an MD school? I doubt this has ever been done before. If anyone has ever had this feeling, does it go away? Does it even matter once you reach residency?

I'm sorry you are feeling down about your decision to go DO.

With that being said, your perceptions may not be based on fact.

I am not going to feed the debate DO vs MD. Both are physicians and allow for opportunities to pursue whatever goals you may set for yourself.

To answer your question, I never regretted going DO just as many of my colleagues never regret going MD.

I have never had to fight to explain DO. If you want the letters MD, then you may always regret your decision. I chose to only go DO, and have never regretted or had challenges because of my choice.

You may want to talk to a mentor about what is causing you to regret your decision.


Wook

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Are there DO’s in neurosurgery?

also isn’t this because there is a higher concentration of DOs in the military and president’s doctor is usually a military person?

There are a lot of DOs in the military, but there are still a lot more MDs. There are a little more than a thousand DOs in the military and about 10,000 physicians total, so about 10%.

 

[MDMechEngr]

If you want the letters MD, then you may always regret your decision. I chose to only go DO, and have never regretted or had challenges because of my choice.

Its not just the Letters MD, It's the quality of clinical training and the extra hustling that a DO has to do that may have caused OP to feel down. It also sounds like OP did not have a choice betwenn MD or DO. The vast majority of DO students do not have a choice between MD or DO. If they did, we would not have that many DO graduates.

 

[deleted898021]

This is a feeling I have started to obtain gradually and it has caused me to have a lot of mixed feelings. I cant help but notice the differences between my friends and colleagues in MD schools vs what I am doing in my DO school. They have a plethora of research opportunities and their clinical rotations are at HUGE medical centers that have every department/specialty possible. My rotations will be scattered all over the place in sub-par hospitals. I'm also very worried about residencies and my application because I want to do a competitive surgical speciality which are notorious for not being very DO friendly... Before anyone screams at me that DO's are in every speciality, yes I know that, but the chances are statistically lower, especially now with boards becoming pass/fail.
I also detest the fact that we have to take double the board exams, which is extremely stressful and expensive, when the USMLE is really the only exam that matters, even if it is pass/fail.
My feelings have also been exacerbated by my own encounters of DO bias, in hospitals and talking with my mentor physicians and with patients who constantly ask what a DO is, and me having to explain it time and time again.
Taking classes in OPP have made me realize that I don't really believe in this type of treatment
Does anyone else feel this way? Would it be absolutely foolish of me apply again while in continuing medical school and start over at an MD school? I doubt this has ever been done before. If anyone has ever had this feeling, does it go away? Does it even matter once you reach residency?

What place is that continually asks you what a DO is lol?

 

[candbgirl]

Its not just the Letters MD, It's the quality of clinical training and the extra hustling that a DO has to do that may have caused OP to feel down. It also sounds like OP did not have a choice betwenn MD or DO. The vast majority of DO students do not have a choice between MD or DO. If they did, we would not have that many DO graduates.

You’re probably right. But each year there are more students that don’t get accepted anywhere than are accepted to MD or DO or maybe even combined. I am surprised that you seem to think the quality of clinical training is subpar. That has never crossed my mind.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

You’re probably right. But each year there are more students that don’t get accepted anywhere than are accepted to MD or DO or maybe even combined. I am surprised that you seem to think the quality of clinical training is subpar. That has never crossed my mind.

Seems a pretty common sentiment even among DO students.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

Is this sarcasm?

Disparaging the merit of going to a DO school is not a very healthy outlook to propagate or have for yourself. There are plenty of reasons why very intelligent and hard-working people may end up at a DO instead of MD. And there are a lot of very intelligent and diligent DO students too.

How many people CHOOSE to go to a DO school over a similarly priced MD school? Maybe a dozen every year.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

What place is that continually asks you what a DO is lol?

Lots of patients would ask me that. There weren't many DOs in our area, or at the university hospital at that time. It was a natural question as many patients had never seen one. Never bothered me.

 

[deleted898021]

Lots of patients would ask me that. There weren't many DOs in our area, or at the university hospital at that time. It was a natural question as many patients had never seen one. Never bothered me.

Do you think this has changed? I have never seen a DO attending or anyone ask me that as a DO student.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Do you think this has changed? I have never seen a DO attending or anyone ask me that as a DO student.

Yes, I suspect it's mostly regional now. My son is a DO and says he is asked that, but not often. You just need a brief explanation, something along these lines. Fully licensed physicians in this country come in 2 flavors. MDs and DOs. DOs are mostly in primary care and historically have taken a more holistic approach to patient care. We are in all specialties. These slight differences are like in baseball. The American League pitcher doesn't bat, a designated hitter does. In the National League, the pitcher must take his turn at bat. Small differences , but its still all baseball. Most patients readily accepted something like that. I never had a patient ask for one of my MD partners to take care of them,

 

[Angus Avagadro]

You’re probably right. But each year there are more students that don’t get accepted anywhere than are accepted to MD or DO or maybe even combined. I am surprised that you seem to think the quality of clinical training is subpar. That has never crossed my mind.

I, and I'm sure you have seen anecdotal reports on the network about some DO clinicals being subpar. I remember a PD, I think radiology, saying that he hired a DO student as a resident that had never had an inpatient IM rotation. I believe it was a newer school at the time. I am hopeful, that now under the ACGME, these complaints will be far fewer. As far as MDMECH's comment about not having a choice between MD or DO, I think they all have a choice. Don't want to explain what a DO is to patients? Don't apply to DO school. Do that gap year and apply MD with a better app. Don't get in? Re evaluate your options and make the best decision for you. Maybe jumping through extra hoops and explaining what a DO is ain't so bad after all. I always have trouble understanding why someone would apply to a school they don't want to go to.

 

[LadyDustyBlue]

Not sure what OP's expectations were going in prior to acceptance + matriculating into DO school, but these drawbacks for DO aren't always hidden. I'd expect a former applicant for medical school to do research on the opportunities that may be available to them due to the network surrounding their school. OP's initial post makes me curious if DO was what they always initially knew they wanted, or if this was just something they thought they could get through because it was potentially easier to get into due to "lowering of stats" compared to an MD school they wanted/might've been rejected by.

Either way, if they're just starting - I think the real challenges they face is "how much do I want to waste my time on a reputation that no one will care about other than myself 10 years down the line?" and "am I up to the challenge of proving I'm every bit as worth as the next person to be the kind of doctor I'm meant to be, if at all?". In any case, these are tough questions. The only solution is to live those questions.

Overall, this too shall pass.

You have a lifetime of being challenged by circumstances brought on by your identity (or a multitude of identities to different kinds of people, beyond earning your medical degree), the least you can do is not rob yourself of the opportunity you've already earned. This particular identity of actually being a medical school student, I would guess, was still not an easy feat.

I think you can do it, if you already made it here.

PS - I have mad respect for DO doctors because they're always incredibly thoughtful - in my experience and also when watching medical documentaries/series. I'm not saying MDs aren't capable of this, but I think when you know your path to being a doctor starts with almost less prestige or respect, that either humbles you or makes you bitter. How you feel about it is up to you and not up to your school. While MDs have the research and stats pizzazz, I think DOs have their own strengths in having to face those double-board exams, and learning a skillset an MD wouldn't. It just really depends on how you look at it.

I'm a freaking pre-med, so what do I know, right? But we all have our share of regrets in life, and we still stumble upon, or create paths that grow us outside of what seemed to be limitations. Do what you want. None of us on SDN are responsible for how you do your medical career.

However, all we can do is let you grapple with the question: "Do I want to be a doctor?" and in the meantime, there are so many other people doing what you want to do, while you're also doing it too. So, don't think that doing nothing (such as leaving a school to somehow be more competitive for an MD one), or rescinding the decision to do something (such as attending medical school while you're at it) will be as productive.

Find a mentor, express your concerns, being a better medical student so you can be a better doctor starts now.

 

[Kardio]

@MDFUTURE123

You bring up plenty of fair and reasonable points. I’m an M2 DO and also disenchanted with OPP, not looking forward to taking two sets of board exams, being disadvantaged in the match, etc.

However a lot of the points you’re bringing up, in my experience, exist more in your mind than in the real world. If you start with the perspective that you’re getting a lesser education, you’re going to be subconsciously looking for areas where your education is lesser. If you think your status as a DO is hurting your reputation among colleagues, you’ll be subconsciously looking to confirm your bias.

it’s worth noting that, within medicine, judging people by pedigree doesn’t end with USMD/DO/IMG. USMD has its own hierarchy; plenty of MD students have posted here complaining about the opportunities they would have had if only they had matriculated to a better MD school.

The grass is certainly greener on the other side, but it’s probably not the vibrant green you’re imagining right now.

 

[idkmed]

I can tell you that I have been on multiple dates as an MD student where I wish I knew some OMM
Take the good with the bad and make the best with with you have!

 

[deleted898021]

I get where OP is coming from but TBH it’s really not that bad, DO bias seems to be diminishing every year. If your app is simmilar to an MD for the specialty you will probably match albeit not at some top tier place(although in pmr, neuro, FM and even anesthesia and EM DO’s match at “top tier” brand name places) so it’s very specialty dependent. For surgical subs there are former DO programs and those are your best bet, this is the true tax you pay if you go DO. Want to be an ENT, ortho, derm, urology, optho doc? It’s most likely gonna be at a former DO program, although every year exceptional DO’s match at MD programs in those specialties so it’s a non zero chance. Is it some crazy connection or just plain luck or honestly they just clicked in the interview, I don’t know… the real bias is against IMG, one kid rotating with me on my SUB-I is damn near applying to 100++ programs just to match IM with 250+ steps ,he wanted to do OB but he looked at the PD survey and the nrmp data and completely gave up on that idea.. WITH A 250. Be thankful for what you do have OP. You can climb up the academic ladder if that’s what you want, there are DO’s as fellows and some even faculty at some true top tier ivory powerhouses…

 

[DarkHorizon]

I think you should immediately drop out of your DO school so the spot goes to someone else.

One more thing, I have now been out 8 years, not once have I been asked what a DO is, no one cares in the community, your patients and colleagues alike. This really is your own insecurity IMO. All my partners are MDs, trained at ivory tower type places, they all refer to me and treat me very well. I’m the busiest surgeon in my group, so certainly patients don’t care.

 

[YCAGA]

This is a feeling I have started to obtain gradually and it has caused me to have a lot of mixed feelings. I cant help but notice the differences between my friends and colleagues in MD schools vs what I am doing in my DO school. They have a plethora of research opportunities and their clinical rotations are at HUGE medical centers that have every department/specialty possible. My rotations will be scattered all over the place in sub-par hospitals. I'm also very worried about residencies and my application because I want to do a competitive surgical speciality which are notorious for not being very DO friendly... Before anyone screams at me that DO's are in every speciality, yes I know that, but the chances are statistically lower, especially now with boards becoming pass/fail.
I also detest the fact that we have to take double the board exams, which is extremely stressful and expensive, when the USMLE is really the only exam that matters, even if it is pass/fail.
My feelings have also been exacerbated by my own encounters of DO bias, in hospitals and talking with my mentor physicians and with patients who constantly ask what a DO is, and me having to explain it time and time again.
Taking classes in OPP have made me realize that I don't really believe in this type of treatment
Does anyone else feel this way? Would it be absolutely foolish of me apply again while in continuing medical school and start over at an MD school? I doubt this has ever been done before. If anyone has ever had this feeling, does it go away? Does it even matter once you reach residency?

The much better solution is to legitimately try to would fall in love with another speciality that is more realistic than this "competitive surgical speciality." Especially if it is neurosurgery. Ortho, optho, ENT, urology MIGHT be worth planning to dual apply with general surgery or anesthesia or [pick your second choice]. Plastics, vascular, and CT are possible via general surgery so just do general surgery. That will still be hard as a DO, but not 20% match rate (neurosurg) hard. I think that covers all the surgical specialities possible out of medical school. Whoopsies if I forgot yours

 

[deleted898021]

The much better solution is to legitimately try to would fall in love with another speciality that is more realistic than this "competitive surgical speciality." Especially if it is neurosurgery. Ortho, optho, ENT, urology MIGHT be worth planning to dual apply with general surgery or anesthesia or [pick your second choice]. Plastics, vascular, and CT are possible via general surgery so just do general surgery. That will still be hard as a DO, but not 20% match rate (neurosurg) hard. I think that covers all the surgical specialities possible out of medical school. Whoopsies if I forgot yours

6/14 DO’s matched neurosurgery last year so not quite 20% lol
Ortho is very much possible especially at former AOA programs, same for ent but harder than ortho, optho is in between ent and ortho with a match rate of 55-60%. Plastics vascular and CT are brutal due to small number of spots and most people apply Gen surgery as back up(even MD’s)

 

[candbgirl]

Funny OP has never come back to join his discussion.

 

[YCAGA]

6/14 DO’s matched neurosurgery last year so not quite 20% lol
Ortho is very much possible especially at former AOA programs, same for ent but harder than ortho, optho is in between ent and ortho with a match rate of 55-60%. Plastics vascular and CT are brutal due to small number of spots and most people apply Gen surgery as back up(even MD’s)

I mean 42% is still brutal. I was thinking about 2020 charting outcomes which was 2/14 so 14%. The match rate from 2016-2020 combined was 21%. I would still say 21% is closer to my claim of 20% than one blockbuster year of 42%

 

[DOVinciRobot]

DO at an academic surgery program. The path is hard no doubt, but not impossible. You just have to remind yourself of your goal every single day and work your butt off.

I’ve never once felt out of place with my coresidents, who are all MDs. I’m very happy with how things have turned out.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

DO at an academic surgery program. The path is hard no doubt, but not impossible. You just have to remind yourself of your goal every single day and work your butt off.

I’ve never once felt out of place with my coresidents, who are all MDs. I’m very happy with how things have turned out.

I had Imposter Syndrome for awhile. My first day of PGY2 was M&M conference. The resident being grilled that day was ashen. As it went on, I slide down in my chair trying not to be noticed. I wondered what Fresh Hell did I get myself into? Later on I learned that most of my MD classmates felt very much the same. It got better with time and I felt like I belonged.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Are there DO’s in neurosurgery?

also isn’t this because there is a higher concentration of DOs in the military and president’s doctor is usually a military person?

Yes. One of the attendings here is a DO. The program here is the best in the world.

 

[deleted1114150]

Yes. One of the attendings here is a DO. The program here is the best in the world.

UCSF Neurosurgery?