Status of army medicine

[museic]

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Hey guys. I frequent this area of SDN often but haven't posted till now. So I'm pretty much set on the army HPSP. I've been trying to get into the military for awhile but for one reason or another things haven't worked out. As far as the reasons for joining, yes debt free will be nice (not to mention time to pay back undergrad loans). Since this has been a pursuit of mine for a long time my desire to join goes beyond living the "good life" in med school (sorry couldn't resist, I've heard it referred as that too many times).

Anyways I've been doing research on the match and for the most part it makes pretty good sense. Recently though I've been under the impression that the army has a pretty good shot at giving you the residency that you want, eventually. I've also read that they tend to not throw you in GMO/FS type roles in the same fashion that the navy/AF do. Granted this is only my impression which is probably not correct. I guess my question for the army guys is that have you seen a similar trend in the army or is it still kind of a turkey shoot.

I've also heard that sometimes the more competitive specialties can be less competitive then the civilian world from year to year depending on the class. For example on the GME website it has old match data that showed NS applicant/spot ratio as 1.

To be honest I have no clue what I want to do. In fact I'm not even officially in a school yet but I have an interview coming up🙂. I'm only asking these questions because I can't seem to find an answer on the always factual internet.

thanks ahead of time.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Hey guys. I frequent this area of SDN often but haven't posted till now. So I'm pretty much set on the army HPSP. I've been trying to get into the military for awhile but for one reason or another things haven't worked out. As far as the reasons for joining, yes debt free will be nice (not to mention time to pay back undergrad loans). Since this has been a pursuit of mine for a long time my desire to join goes beyond living the "good life" in med school (sorry couldn't resist, I've heard it referred as that too many times).

Anyways I've been doing research on the match and for the most part it makes pretty good sense. Recently though I've been under the impression that the army has a pretty good shot at giving you the residency that you want, eventually. I've also read that they tend to not throw you in GMO/FS type roles in the same fashion that the navy/AF do. Granite this is only my impression which is probably not correct. I guess my question for the army guys is that have you seen a similar trend in the army or is it still kind of a turkey shoot.

I've also heard that sometimes the more competitive specialties can be less competitive then the civilian world from year to year depending on the class. For example on the GME website it has old match data that showed NS applicant/spot ratio as 1.

To be honest I have no clue what I want to do. In fact I'm not even officially in a school yet but I have an interview coming up🙂. I'm only asking these questions because I can't seem to find an answer on the always factual internet.

thanks ahead of time.

You didn't actually ask any questions.

 

[colbgw02]

Anyways I've been doing research on the match and for the most part it makes pretty good sense. Recently though I've been under the impression that the army has a pretty good shot at giving you the residency that you want, eventually. I've also read that they tend to not throw you in GMO/FS type roles in the same fashion that the navy/AF do. Granite this is only my impression which is probably not correct. I guess my question for the army guys is that have you seen a similar trend in the army or is it still kind of a turkey shoot.

Also, I second Gastrapathy's sentiments. I have no idea what you're asking.

 

[museic]

I was asking if you guys have found that the army is becoming better at not assigning residencies that people did not ask for and if, at times, a more competitive residency can be less competitive. of coarse this can go both ways ie a less competitive residency can become more competitive. (relative to the civilian world)

 

[museic]

People don't get "assigned" residencies they don't want. They may be forced to do an internship they don't want, but not residency.

Yes, more competitive residencies are sometimes less competitive in the miliary. Army Derm is what usually comes up when people discuss this.

thats cool. eww no I hope I don't end up wanting to do derm. I just found it interesting that on the GME website it showed low ratios for NS, Optho, and a few others but then like EM would be really high.

 

[museic]

Also, I second Gastrapathy's sentiments. I have no idea what you're asking.

fixt. I deserved that, Thanks.

 

[Slevin]

But the question is for specialities like NS, Ortho, Derm where there isn't a applicants to spots is less than a 1:1 ratio, meaning there are more spots than applicants. Does Army medicine have to take anyone that applies to that position?

 

[Slevin]

So they aren't obligated to fill a spot in say ortho if only 1 person applies and they don't like the applicant?

 

[museic]

They don't have to do anything. They can do whatever they want.

Not sure why NS keeps popping up. There is one residency slot per year in NS, and it is a combined Army/Navy position, so both services compete for it.

Thats odd this spreadsheet said there was two. It was from 2007 so perhaps it has been reduced to one?

 

[DD214_DOC]

I've also read that they tend to not throw you in GMO/FS type roles in the same fashion that the navy/AF do.

The Army tends to want to allow people to progress through training, but there are many mechanisms in place to make you a GMO if you do not comply with the changing requirements in Army medicine.

The GME department has become much more strict on PT and board requirements for trainees than in recent years. While they allow ample opportunity for remediation of any deficiencies, they will make you a GMO if you are unable to comply. Also, those who cannot pass Step III are reclassified to another branch and terminated from residency. Again, after ample opportunity to comply.

A lot of the requirements during your medical school training have changed as well. I'm not as up-to-par with the new standards, but I gather they are enforcing the board passage requirements during medical school or you risk losing your scholarship and going on to active duty for your payback.

If you are one of the people who barely got into medical school, had trouble in undergrad, or may have trouble in medical school, I would recommend waiting to take the scholarship to see how your first year goes. If not, then start doing PT now so you don't run into any issues later, or so any occult medical problems are addressed prior to going onto active duty.

I believe the others have answered your questions appropriately. I have enjoyed my time so far. Without the Army, I could not have afforded to have my son during school. You can PM me if you have any specific questions.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

 

[NavyFP]

So they aren't obligated to fill a spot in say ortho if only 1 person applies and they don't like the applicant?

If the program can make an adequate case that the applicant would not meet standards, then yes, they can say no. I have seen this happen on the Navy side.

 

[walkoffhr]

People don't get "assigned" residencies they don't want. They may be forced to do an internship they don't want, but not residency.

Yes, more competitive residencies are sometimes less competitive in the miliary. Army Derm is what usually comes up when people discuss this.

Say you want surgery, and you don't get it. You do a TRI, re-apply and don't get it again. Then what? GMO?

 

[DD214_DOC]

Say you want surgery, and you don't get it. You do a TRI, re-apply and don't get it again. Then what? GMO?

Yep

 

[walkoffhr]

Yep

At that point, could you volunteer yourself to do GMO's until your time is up, just to get out? Say after you're 3rd GMO year, you finally get your surgery spot. Can you say, no thanks, I'll take the last year as a GMO, then part ways?

 

[colbgw02]

At that point, could you volunteer yourself to do GMO's until your time is up, just to get out? Say after you're 3rd GMO year, you finally get your surgery spot. Can you say, no thanks, I'll take the last year as a GMO, then part ways?

Yes. Quite a few people do just that. In fact, if you don't intend to stay until retirement, then I think it makes little sense to take a residency slot - and therefore add time to your ADSO - when you could just hang out 1 more year in GMO land.

 

[Homunculus]

Yes. Quite a few people do just that. In fact, if you don't intend to stay until retirement, then I think it makes little sense to take a residency slot - and therefore add time to your ADSO - when you could just hang out 1 more year in GMO land.

depending on the circumstance i'd try to spend as much GMO time deployed as possible ($$$), serve off the time, and use the new GI bill for civilian training. not a bad deal in the end-- you start 3 years late in residency but get a lot of experience on your own, earn some spending money, and have something to talk about in interviews and put on your CV that not many people have.

--your friendly neighborhood "using deployment as a financial tool" advocating caveman

 

[DD214_DOC]

depending on the circumstance i'd try to spend as much GMO time deployed as possible ($$$), serve off the time, and use the new GI bill for civilian training. not a bad deal in the end-- you start 3 years late in residency but get a lot of experience on your own, earn some spending money, and have something to talk about in interviews and put on your CV that not many people have.

--your friendly neighborhood "using deployment as a financial tool" advocating caveman

I was under the impression you are not eligible for the GI Bill while paying back any time accrued for stuff like HPSP.

 

[Homunculus]

I was under the impression you are not eligible for the GI Bill while paying back any time accrued for stuff like HPSP.

you'd use it as a civilian after your payback is complete. friend of mine will be using his to augment his civilian fellowship he's doing after getting out. not a bad deal.

-- your friendly neighborhood hopes to save his GI bill for his kids caveman

 

[Slevin]

Also quick question since I took the pre 9/11 GI BIll I can't pay to get into the post 9/11 GI Bill can I?