Bardo

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Apr 5, 2005
18
0
0
Status
I was just curious if anyone had any stats on how often programs offer PGY2 positions or categorical positions to their non-designated preliminary interns. I will be doing a year at a very well known, research oriented program and while I am prepared to look elsewhere for a PGY2 spot or even match and repeat intern year, I was wondering what the chances of this best case scenario were.
 

njbmd

Guest
Moderator Emeritus
5+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
May 30, 2001
9,050
142
0
Gone Walkabout!
Visit site
Status
Attending Physician
I was just curious if anyone had any stats on how often programs offer PGY2 positions or categorical positions to their non-designated preliminary interns. I will be doing a year at a very well known, research oriented program and while I am prepared to look elsewhere for a PGY2 spot or even match and repeat intern year, I was wondering what the chances of this best case scenario were.
No statistics are actually going to be of much use for you. If your program has an open categorical slot and they want you to fill it, then you will get it. Some places have openings (as people in categorical slots will elect to leave) and sometimes you hit a year where everyone stays and you won't have a slot.

If you are interested in getting a categorical slot, you need to be pro-active and speak with your Program Director right from the start. Your Program Director isn't going to ask you about your plans, you need to initiate this conversation and ask their specific advice for your situation. This person isn't going to come to you and ask you if you want to stay so you have get as much information as you can gather from Day 1 to put yourself in a good position to get a slot should one become open. First, do an outstanding job with patient care and hone your surgical skills to the highest level possible; do well on your tests (ABSITE) and last, make good connections with the teaching faculty so that they are supportive when it comes to your evaluations.

The good thing is that many programs will take a "known entity" over an unknown "entity" if an opening becomes available. The worst case scenario is if you do the above is that your program doesn't have a slot and you go elsewhere with very strong letters. It's also a good idea for you to have your application materials ready to go so that you can enter the MATCH next year, apply early and get some solid interviews. I would plan on going back into the match in any case and hope for the best i.e. you won't have to.

Most PDs know in February if there will be open slots for the next year(they have enough evals on the current residents) and will let you know if you have a shot. This is why you can't "hang back" and hope but why you need to get out there and do everything possible to get a position. Start early and do your best to outperform in every area that you can.

If there isn't a slot, I wouldn't stay another prelim year waiting for one. If you are not going to have a categorical slot after your PGY-1 year, enter the MATCH and repeat your PGY-1 year as a categorical at your new program. I wouldn't waste a second year of funding in a prelim position as it becomes more difficult to get into a categorical slot at an outside program after two prelim years.
 

Bardo

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Apr 5, 2005
18
0
0
Status
Thanks so much for the advice. I'm going to be in the city that my wife and I would like to settle in so the goal is to work hard and see if I can find a spot somewhere in the area if not at the program.

It's great advice to talk to the PD early and let them know. I absolutely will follow through on that.
 

bitter9881

New Member
10+ Year Member
Jun 1, 2006
19
0
0
Champaign, IL
Status
Medical Student
I'm in the same situation as OP -- i'm an american allopathic student, doing prelim surg, hoping to get into an open PGY-2 spot somewhere, obviously reapplying to NRMP.

Does anyone know if there would be any utility to taking step 3 this summer before I start my internship? Is that something programs will want to see? Can it help me if i take it and do well? Will it hurt me if i haven't taken it? Is it possible [and i imagine it is] to study for it and do well without having spent time on the wards as a resident? Also, somewhat related, do fellowship programs put any stock in step 3 scores when we are applying to fellowships?

Thanks for any info you have for me.
 

Winged Scapula

Cougariffic!
Staff member
Administrator
Lifetime Donor
15+ Year Member
Apr 9, 2000
39,233
27,824
631
forums.studentdoctor.net
Status
Attending Physician
I'm in the same situation as OP -- i'm an american allopathic student, doing prelim surg, hoping to get into an open PGY-2 spot somewhere, obviously reapplying to NRMP.

Does anyone know if there would be any utility to taking step 3 this summer before I start my internship? Is that something programs will want to see?
Maybe, maybe not.

Can it help me if i take it and do well?
I doubt it since there are only like 5 surgery questions on the whole thing. Its simply something you need to pass.

Will it hurt me if i haven't taken it?
Unlikely except in the case of programs that want you to pass before the end of your intern year and the fact that the farther you get from medical school (in a surgery program), the harder it will be.

Is it possible [and i imagine it is] to study for it and do well without having spent time on the wards as a resident?
Not for surgical residents since most questions will not be surgical in nature but rather Peds, Ob, and largely FM. You will not have those rotations during residency anyway.

Also, somewhat related, do fellowship programs put any stock in step 3 scores when we are applying to fellowships?
Nope. It is simply seen as something you must pass to be eligible for a license. I would go ahead and take the exam as soon as you can but not because it might help you with residency or fellowship.
 

bitter9881

New Member
10+ Year Member
Jun 1, 2006
19
0
0
Champaign, IL
Status
Medical Student
WS, thanks very much for the response. I think i'll forgo step 3 for the immediate future. which is good news for me -- one less thing to do in the next 3 months, and ~$500 that stays in my bank account instead of being paid to NBME.
 

thedrjojo

10+ Year Member
Jun 20, 2008
23,875
16,146
281
Status
Attending Physician
WS, thanks very much for the response. I think i'll forgo step 3 for the immediate future. which is good news for me -- one less thing to do in the next 3 months, and ~$500 that stays in my bank account instead of being paid to NBME.

Yup, my residency requires step 3 to be passed before you become a PGY3, so I have no intention of taking it for a while (especially if I am doing research between PGY2 and PGY3... but more likely will take it late PGY1 or early PGY2)
 

SLUser11

CRS
10+ Year Member
Feb 22, 2005
2,879
775
281
Status
Attending Physician
Yup, my residency requires step 3 to be passed before you become a PGY3, so I have no intention of taking it for a while (especially if I am doing research between PGY2 and PGY3... but more likely will take it late PGY1 or early PGY2)
Take it during your PGY-1 year.....trust me.



You'll thank me later.
 

Pir8DeacDoc

Cerumen Extractor
15+ Year Member
Mar 27, 2004
1,586
309
381
Virginia
Visit site
Status
Attending Physician
Almost everyone in my intern class took it in the middle/late part of the year.

I'll echo what others have said, as a surgery resident there's no good reason to put it off. The material is predominately OB,FM, peds type stuff that you aren't going to be exposed to as a surgery resident anyway. You can be assured of forgetting this material the further away you are from med school.
 

blue2000

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Mar 25, 2005
371
9
141
Status
I'm waiting for my Step III score to come back. I'm a 5. I haven't thought about dermatomyositis or minimal change nephropathy in 5 years. I should have taken it sooner. It's kind of a hassle to take it, but it only gets to be more of a hassle as the years go on.
 

njbmd

Guest
Moderator Emeritus
5+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
May 30, 2001
9,050
142
0
Gone Walkabout!
Visit site
Status
Attending Physician
Take it during your PGY-1 year.....trust me.



You'll thank me later.
+1 The longer you put this off, the more of a nuisance it becomes. I took it February right after my first ABSITE. This is not one to put off because you double your pain if you don't pass it. I was glad to have it over with and a P in that column.
 

Buzz Me

Moderator Emeritus
Gold Donor
10+ Year Member
Nov 17, 2004
1,919
114
281
Status
Attending Physician
Take it early, before you forget all your Peds, Psych, OB, etc.

I took it fall of my PGY-2 year.