Step 1 Auto Cut-Off vs. effect of step 2 ck

[calespine]

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Hey guys- I know most competitive residency programs have step 1 score cut-offs- if when you submit ERAS your step 1 score is below the "screening score", how is the Step 2 CK score factored in? Will you be automatically screened out regardless of your step 2 score?

I'm trying to decide whether to submit my ERAS on sept 1 without my step 2 score, or to wait until early october to submit with step 1 and 2 scores. But if I'll be automatically screened out because of my step 1 score, there isn't really any point in waiting until october, right?

 

[calespine]

Any thoughts?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I think you've asked an impossible question to answer. Some programs will have absolute Step 1 cutoffs. If your Step 1 is below their cutoff, you're not considered regardless of the rest of your application. Others will look at a combination of Step 1 and Step 2. In situation #1, it doesn't matter when you apply as you'll be rejected. In situation #2 you're much better off having your Step 2 in if you think it will be better.

So, if your step 2 will be better, it's probably better to wait.
If your step 2 will be worse, you should apply now.
If your Step 1 is 248 and you somehow think that's not good enough and you are trying for higher on your Step 2, then you're crazy.

 

[calespine]

Thanks aprogdirector- that's actually a great and logical answer.

 

[keaneintheblock]

I have a question "aprogdirector": is there any filter in the ERAS where you can filter out second attempt in the CS for example, or it's a Pass/Fail filter for it only.I know it can be seen eventually, but can you filter it out immediately without looking the second attempt note. Thank you very much

 

[NotAProgDirector]

As-of last year's ERAS program, there was no way to filter for multiple attempts of a step. The step filters use the last score. So, if I set a filter for failing CS, and you failed your first attempt and passed your second, you would filter as a pass. As you mention I'll see it eventually, but you get past the first hurdle.

 

[keaneintheblock]

Thank you very much aProgDirector. Appreciated.

 

[Whats_up_doc]

How important is to have Step 2 CS done before interviews? Before ranking by schools?

Thanks aprog.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Depends on the field/program. Most don't care. A few programs require CS for ranking. Very few, if any, require it for interviews. For IMG's it's probably much more important.

 

[gstrub]

I posted this in another thread, but will add it here as well. I asked our PD about possibly waiting for my step II score and here was his response (I have a below average step I for ENT):

I would def go with 9/1. The long answer is that since step 2 scores are not uniformly available for all applicants, few if any programs would look beyond the step 1 score. Thus if a program sets a criteria for step one score above yours (I suspect there may be some, but not many), they would not likely then look for a step 2 score and offer you an interview. Step 2 is mainly considered, if available, after initial screens (ie step 1 score, research, AOA status, etc) are used thru ERAS to further decide who to invite for an interview. Thus it will not negate a step 1 score. However with your step 1 score few if any doors will be shut, and your PhD and research background will be big pluses.

So again, best to have application in early, as some programs do offer interviews on a rolling basis (ie consider applications as they come in).

 

[ygmd1980]

this is for aprogdirector:

So i'm an IMG with a weak step 1 of 225 (94), doing my Ck in the beginning of Sept. and planing to apply for Ob/Gyn.

so from what I understand you recommend to apply anyway in 01/09 and not to wait for my Ck results, is that right?

Thank You

 

[NotAProgDirector]

this is for aprogdirector:

So i'm an IMG with a weak step 1 of 225 (94), doing my Ck in the beginning of Sept. and planing to apply for Ob/Gyn.

so from what I understand you recommend to apply anyway in 01/09 and not to wait for my Ck results, is that right?

Thank You

Nope. Here's what I said:

I think you've asked an impossible question to answer. Some programs will have absolute Step 1 cutoffs. If your Step 1 is below their cutoff, you're not considered regardless of the rest of your application. Others will look at a combination of Step 1 and Step 2. In situation #1, it doesn't matter when you apply as you'll be rejected. In situation #2 you're much better off having your Step 2 in if you think it will be better.

So, if your step 2 will be better, it's probably better to wait.
If your step 2 will be worse, you should apply now.
If your Step 1 is 248 and you somehow think that's not good enough and you are trying for higher on your Step 2, then you're crazy.

You need to weigh the possible upside of waiting for your Step 2 score but downside ofapplying later, with the opposite. Which strategy is "better" depends on too many variables to determine. One of those variables is what your Step 2 score will be, which is impossible to tell.

 

[hollerStranger]

I am not sure if the answers on this thread address my particular scenario but any help in this regard would be greatly appreciated:

I was hoping to submit my application on September 1 with the current step 1 score (208/86) and CS score report and then UPDATE my application with my step 2 ck score (which should come on October 6th) ...

In this situation, what I have heard is that if at first my application was filtered out, then when my CK score is added to my application, the programs I applied to will be notified of my score and then my CK score can still help if they didn't consider me earlier for an interview.

I guess the belief I had was go ahead and apply and your CK score will help you once it comes in (if the score is good) for programs that need a CK score and for programs for which my step 1 was not good enough ...

do i have this correct?

What would you advise me? I am applying to IM programs.

Thanks.

 

[ygmd1980]

Nope. Here's what I said:



You need to weigh the possible upside of waiting for your Step 2 score but downside ofapplying later, with the opposite. Which strategy is "better" depends on too many variables to determine. One of those variables is what your Step 2 score will be, which is impossible to tell.

thank you for the fast response.
well so the bottom line is there is not good/absolute answer, and either way i'm taking a gamble... well I do love poker! (although I won't write in the my CV offcourse...)

Good luck to all of us

 

[calespine]

I am not sure if the answers on this thread address my particular scenario but any help in this regard would be greatly appreciated:

I was hoping to submit my application on September 1 with the current step 1 score (208/86) and CS score report and then UPDATE my application with my step 2 ck score (which should come on October 6th) ...

In this situation, what I have heard is that if at first my application was filtered out, then when my CK score is added to my application, the programs I applied to will be notified of my score and then my CK score can still help if they didn't consider me earlier for an interview.

I guess the belief I had was go ahead and apply and your CK score will help you once it comes in (if the score is good) for programs that need a CK score and for programs for which my step 1 was not good enough ...

do i have this correct?

What would you advise me? I am applying to IM programs.

Thanks.

What I've been told is once you've been turned down for an interview based on what you've submitted while waiting for ck scores- your file is done and you're out of the game at that program. I'm curious to hear others experiences though...

 

[notdeadyet]

What I've been told is once you've been turned down for an interview based on what you've submitted while waiting for ck scores- your file is done and you're out of the game at that program. I'm curious to hear others experiences though...

If you're turned down for an interview based on what you've submitted, it means that what you've submitted is enough for the PD to say that the results of your Step 2 they're waiting on aren't going to be enough to sway them. If you're borderline in their minds, they see that your Step 2 results are pending and can wait. I haven't heard a real convincing argument for waiting to apply to programs after they've started invitations for the sake of waiting for your Step 2 score.

 

[notdeadyet]

So i'm an IMG with a weak step 1 of 225 (94), doing my Ck in the beginning of Sept. and planing to apply for Ob/Gyn.

Please don't refer to your 225 as a "weak" score. I know this is SDN, but it's a little insulting to those who are going to fight an uphill battle with actual weak Step 1 scores.

Your 225 is smack around average and about half of folks out there would be delighted to see a 225.

Best of luck to everybody in the application process...

 

[ygmd1980]

Please don't refer to your 225 as a "weak" score. I know this is SDN, but it's a little insulting to those who are going to fight an uphill battle with actual weak Step 1 scores.

Your 225 is smack around average and about half of folks out there would be delighted to see a 225.

Best of luck to everybody in the application process...

sorry really didn't mean to insult anyone!
just as an IMG it is considered mediocre at best, due to the various problems we have with Visa's, lack of research, etc. we often need to compensate with a much higher score....

 

[notdeadyet]

sorry really didn't mean to insult anyone!
just as an IMG it is considered mediocre at best, due to the various problems we have with Visa's, lack of research, etc. we often need to compensate with a much higher score....

Understood, and no insult taken. It's just important to keep perspective. Your Step 1 is far from mediocre. It's just that IMG's are sometimes asked to have great scores to compete with us mediocre local folks.

 

[alittlestory]

I'm curious as to if (and how) PD view Step Scores in the past few years... i.e. In 2007 a 220 is not the same as a 220 in 2010... the same holds for the two-digit scores.

I can only hope that they keep this difference in mind!

 

[VeerTheTIGuy]

I'm curious as to if (and how) PD view Step Scores in the past few years... i.e. In 2007 a 220 is not the same as a 220 in 2010... the same holds for the two-digit scores.

I can only hope that they keep this difference in mind!

I thought the whole point of the three-digit score was that it was consistent throughout all years the USMLE gets taken? I'm not necessarily sure how ACCURATE it is, since they never say how the scores are derived, but wasn't that the thought process behind it? If you meant that the average scores are slowly increasing, then apologies...

 

[alittlestory]

I suppose I do mean that average scores are increasing... but for example, my neighbor who took her steps 10 years ago- anything about 210 was spectacular... I just don't think the same holds today...

Not sure how the three digit number works- I know people with 239/99 and others with 237/94. I'm clueless as to the math behind it.

 

[VeerTheTIGuy]

I'm clueless as to the math behind it.

Aren't we all....😀

 

[Nana7]

Hi. I graduated as MD this last June. I passed step 1 and 2 CK, but failed CS. I retook it on August, but scores will be available on October 13th. I did not want to wait until October, so I submitted my ERAS app early on September with a status of "awaiting results" for CS, and also released my usmle transcript. Will the programs not even interview me for the failed CS, even though they know I am already awaiting results of the second attempt? Or will they wait until results are available to make the decision of whether to interview me or not? Should I have waited until October 13th to submit ERAS with the passed CS????? Am I screwed?


Please respond, I need insight, and am really nervous. Thanks.