Step 1 Deadline as a factor into choosing a medical school

[RunwayModel]

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Which medical schools do not have a deadline in which to take USMLE Step 1 before third year? I would say, this should factor into a decision about choosing medical schools as would you rather take boards when you are told to or when you feel you are ready? Not to mention, those who have taken Step 1, after having done some clinical rotations say that Step 1 is a little easier to handle as questions are presented as clinical vignettes. The only school that I know of off hand is Baylor College of Medicine. Any others?

 

[MassTransport]

The MSAR is your best bet. That information is on the left page for each school. To be honest with you, I have no idea whether step policies will be important to me later on (it's not now), but I'd assume that when the school makes you take it is when the school thinks you're going to be best prepared for it.

 

[plauto]

At University of Pennsylvania you take your step one after one year of clinicals (preclinicals get done in 1.5 yrs and they take it in the middle of third year). So that might be why they have such good scores!

 

[Sean2tall]

I took Step 1 after 2nd year and, to my knowledge, that is quite standard. I would consider taking it later to be a disadvantage, as you would start losing basic science knowledge. Most things from the first two years you never think about again. More time in the wards is certainly advantageous for Step 2, which you can take at your convenience. I would not weigh this at all in deciding which school to go to.

I am firm believer that most things we consider when applying to med school are very much off-base compared to things that actually turn out to be important to you. For example, things like "early clinical experience" and PBL sound nice as an applicant, but they just become annoying in practice. The number one factor I would consider is tuition, unless maybe you're it's Bob's Medical School vs Harvard. Other things I would consider are: amount of annoying crap you have to do during 1st/2nd year, location of the school, what rotations are required during 3rd/4th year (more electives = better, 4th year should have almost no required rotations.)

But of course this is the perspective of a 4th year and of course it is impossible to take somebody else's advice over your own feelings.

 

[Instatewaiter]

For example, things like "early clinical experience" and PBL sound nice as an applicant, but they just become annoying in practice.

Got to agree.

 

[45408]

I am firm believer that most things we consider when applying to med school are very much off-base compared to things that actually turn out to be important to you. For example, things like "early clinical experience" and PBL sound nice as an applicant, but they just become annoying in practice.

And "nice anatomy labs" and "pretty lecture halls" (which I don't use, because I don't go 😛)

 

[RunwayModel]

I took Step 1 after 2nd year and, to my knowledge, that is quite standard. I would consider taking it later to be a disadvantage, as you would start losing basic science knowledge. Most things from the first two years you never think about again. More time in the wards is certainly advantageous for Step 2, which you can take at your convenience. I would not weigh this at all in deciding which school to go to.

I am firm believer that most things we consider when applying to med school are very much off-base compared to things that actually turn out to be important to you. For example, things like "early clinical experience" and PBL sound nice as an applicant, but they just become annoying in practice. The number one factor I would consider is tuition, unless maybe you're it's Bob's Medical School vs Harvard. Other things I would consider are: amount of annoying crap you have to do during 1st/2nd year, location of the school, what rotations are required during 3rd/4th year (more electives = better, 4th year should have almost no required rotations.)

But of course this is the perspective of a 4th year and of course it is impossible to take somebody else's advice over your own feelings.

While I would agree that some people are prepared to take Step 1 at the very end of 2nd year, many are not. 1st and 2nd year you are learning things for the first time, and let's face it, you learn it the way the specific professor teaches it and tests it. You don't learn it the way you should learn it and more importantly the way the boards tests it. On top of that you are learning 3-4 subjects at once!!! Then you only get a month and half (if even) to prepare and take the boards. And ALL schools have crap that no one likes in reality but does in theory: PBL, PPS (Patient, Physician Society), yada yada yada.

But yes, I agree with the above poster, that UPenn's scores are phenomenal for possibly that very reason. Also one of the threads on SDN in which people filled out that "31 Question" survey. Those in which Step 1 was taken without a school imposed deadline, the Step 1 average was naturally higher (230s even), while those that did not, the average was close to the national average (218).

 

[lord_jeebus]

I believe that any student, with proper motivation and knowledge of USMLE test strategy (ie. read the Step 1 forum threads on SDN), can score at least 230-240 within even the tightest time constraints imposed by a med school in the US. It is about learning material well the first time and selecting review aids wisely.

I think of the baseline learning during preclinical years as what sets your ceiling potential score on the test, and the review dictates how close to that ceiling you actually reach. Schools with long review period make this ceiling easier to achieve without a good strategy, but with a solid strategy I think you would get about the same score at any school. It is not hard to form such a strategy so I would not recommend picking a school on the basis of how much time is set aside for USMLE preparation.

I think the pros (better interpretation of clinical data) and cons (worse retention of basic science minutia) of taking Step 1 after clinical years probably balance out pretty evenly.

 

[smq123]

While I would agree that some people are prepared to take Step 1 at the very end of 2nd year, many are not. 1st and 2nd year you are learning things for the first time, and let's face it, you learn it the way the specific professor teaches it and tests it. You don't learn it the way you should learn it and more importantly the way the boards tests it. On top of that you are learning 3-4 subjects at once!!! Then you only get a month and half (if even) to prepare and take the boards. And ALL schools have crap that no one likes in reality but does in theory: PBL, PPS (Patient, Physician Society), yada yada yada.

But yes, I agree with the above poster, that UPenn's scores are phenomenal for possibly that very reason. Also one of the threads on SDN in which people filled out that "31 Question" survey. Those in which Step 1 was taken without a school imposed deadline, the Step 1 average was naturally higher (230s even), while those that did not, the average was close to the national average (218).

Well, Penn's entering med students tend to have very high MCAT scores, so we know that they're good at taking standardized tests. It's hard to tell (at this point) how much it matters.

After being on the wards, I honestly don't believe in the argument that clinical experience helps with Step 1. I can barely remember some stuff that I KNEW for Step 1 - like, for example, how dislocated lenses is part of Marfan's syndrome. Trying to remember that on my current ophtho rotation was like digging back in a messy sock drawer. And none of the stuff that I see routinely on my rotations were on Step 1.

Penn only gives you a month to prepare for Step 1, I believe. It's not like your resident will let you out of the rotation early because you need to study for Step 1. Plus you need to study for your shelf exam while you're ON the rotation, so that cuts into your step 1 study time as well.

I'm not sure if you should make sweeping generalizations about how you "learn" things in med school until you're here. In 2nd year, especially, we didn't learn things the way that a "professor taught them." We learned things the way we were expected to know stuff on the wards.

It's a hard dilemma - if a school teaches towards the wards, it can't teach towards Step 1. If it teaches towards Step 1, it leaves its students woefully underprepared for the wards. It's tough.

A month and a half (six weeks) is a LOT of time to study only for the boards. Your stamina will only hold out for so long. Five weeks is what a lot of people take; 6-7 weeks if they are really masochistic.

Don't use this to decide between schools. It is truly not important. How well you prepare for step 1, regardless of your school, will ALWAYS come down to how well YOU prepare for it. Always.

 

[lord_jeebus]

A month and a half (six weeks) is a LOT of time to study only for the boards. Your stamina will only hold out for so long. Five weeks is what a lot of people take; 6-7 weeks if they are really masochistic.

At my school, 3 weeks is popular. I think taking more than 4 weeks is a relatively new phenomenon driven by student paranoia and administrations willing to exploit premed paranoia to recruit students with extended USMLE prep schedules.

 

[RunwayModel]

I thought this was interesting on University of Rochester's website regarding their policy on USMLE: http://http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/smd/stdnt/handbook/USMLE.html

"Although the University of Rochester now requires all students to take the USMLE (note: the policy was revised to allow the school to include the cost of the examinations in the student financial aid budgets), the institution does not use the examinations as academic "gates" (i.e., promotion/graduation requirements). Rochester feels the Board examinations should be used only for the purpose for which they were created: licensure."

Talk about a student advocate school!

 

[Tiki]

While I would agree that some people are prepared to take Step 1 at the very end of 2nd year, many are not. 1st and 2nd year you are learning things for the first time, and let's face it, you learn it the way the specific professor teaches it and tests it. You don't learn it the way you should learn it and more importantly the way the boards tests it. On top of that you are learning 3-4 subjects at once!!! Then you only get a month and half (if even) to prepare and take the boards. And ALL schools have crap that no one likes in reality but does in theory: PBL, PPS (Patient, Physician Society), yada yada yada.

But yes, I agree with the above poster, that UPenn's scores are phenomenal for possibly that very reason. Also one of the threads on SDN in which people filled out that "31 Question" survey. Those in which Step 1 was taken without a school imposed deadline, the Step 1 average was naturally higher (230s even), while those that did not, the average was close to the national average (218).

I would have never wanted to take Step 1 after or during 3rd year. It is a basic science test, it is best taken after your basic science years. Not to mention the fact that if you take it late 3rd year, you have to take Step 2 CK a few months later.

 

[DrBubbles]

I don't know if Step 1 scores correlate with the timeline, but I think a better indicator of how well-prepared students are for the step 1's is to just check out their average class score. Regardless of when they take them, and how much clinical experience they've had, or how close to finishing the didactic portion of the education, if the school has a higher average, then they're doing something right in admitting the right students and then educating them appropriately. Hope this helps!

 

[Law2Doc]

I would have never wanted to take Step 1 after or during 3rd year. It is a basic science test, it is best taken after your basic science years. Not to mention the fact that if you take it late 3rd year, you have to take Step 2 CK a few months later.

Strongly agree with this as well. Get Step 1 out of the way BEFORE you start your rotations. The clinical info won't help you on that test as much as you think, and you will never have the kind of time to study you have before third year starts. If you really want to use step 1 timing as a guage of picking schools, you want to find out which schools have the longest summers between second year and third year. But you really don't want a school that allows or encourages you to take the test after rotations have started, IMHO.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

Strongly agree with this as well. Get Step 1 out of the way BEFORE you start your rotations. The clinical info won't help you on that test as much as you think, and you will never have the kind of time to study you have before third year starts. If you really want to use step 1 timing as a guage of picking schools, you want to find out which schools have the longest summers between second year and third year. But you really don't want a school that allows or encourages you to take the test after rotations have started, IMHO.

Law2Doc again says it beautifully. To put it more bluntly, figuring out how to dose insulin (something not on the boards) is not going to help you with the Krebs cycle (something ON the boards).

 

[plauto]

Is it possible that taking some of the shelf exams during your rotations before step I actually helps Penn's students on step I?

 

[smq123]

Is it possible that taking some of the shelf exams during your rotations before step I actually helps Penn's students on step I?

I don't see how it would have helped me. (Obviously I don't go to Penn so I can't say for sure.) Our 2nd year exams were written NBME/USMLE style, so I was pretty accustomed to those types of questions. And what the shelf exams test is different from what Step 1 tests.

 

[plauto]

I don't see how it would have helped me. (Obviously I don't go to Penn so I can't say for sure.) Our 2nd year exams were written NBME/USMLE style, so I was pretty accustomed to those types of questions. And what the shelf exams test is different from what Step 1 tests.

I see. I love your avatar by the way!

 

[vr4nut]

I agree with Sean2tall and others, I can't add much wisdom here. BUT, almost everyone in my class had just one complaint about step 1 scheduling- we thought we put it off TOO LONG after 2nd year where we got tired of studying and started forgetting stuff! We were given 5-6 weeks off after 2nd year to study and take the exam, and people regretted taking an extra WEEK to study after finishing an intensive review course, for example, rather than just taking it immediately after finishing the course. Just wait and see how tired of studying you get when you are re-reading your books for the 4th time after 5 months of studying, you will peak earlier than you think and you just need to get it over with. The same applies to step 2.

Schools that impose time limits try to get you to take the steps right after you are done learning pertinent information, because this is generally information you will never be taught or need to know again and you don't need to clutter your head with new info and worries before taking the relevant step.

As if I haven't made my point clear, try this scenario:

-If you're no good at math and finished Calc 2 as a sophomore, would you want to put off the final exam till your senior year, assuming you take no more math classes but are counting on your added general college experience to help you score higher? How about the same scenario with organic chemistry?

At my school, most people who take it late do so because they were advised by the dean to study more based on school-administered readiness assessments. People who are judged to be at risk of borderline failure are taken aside and shipped off to some professional USMLE prep course in Chicago.

 

[Long Dong]

Pick a school that has: Pass/Fail, more time off for boards, least amount of lecture time and take step 1 after 2nd year. You'll enjoy life alot more. Taking after or during rotations isn't much help. Like others have said it's a basic sci test and the further out the more you forget.

 

[PilSeungKorea]

Pick a school that has: Pass/Fail, more time off for boards, least amount of lecture time and take step 1 after 2nd year. You'll enjoy life alot more. Taking after or during rotations isn't much help. Like others have said it's a basic sci test and the further out the more you forget.

UCLA sucks. They don't produce good doctors that way 👎 Boo. UCSF and Harvard all the way

 

[Arjunsi]

UCLA sucks. They don't produce good doctors that way 👎 Boo. UCSF and Harvard all the way

Ah, an objective analysis if I've ever seen one!

 

[shantster]

I'd worry more about how much time the students are given to prepare for Step 1 than anything else. Yes, it would be nice to take whenever you want, but I'd rather have a school tell me when to take it and then give me a few months off for it than one giving me the option of taking it when I want but not having this scheduled time off.

 

[shantster]

Pick a school that has: Pass/Fail, more time off for boards, least amount of lecture time and take step 1 after 2nd year. You'll enjoy life alot more. Taking after or during rotations isn't much help. Like others have said it's a basic sci test and the further out the more you forget.

Besides forgetting the basic science, I would think that would be h3ll taking it while on rotations.

 

[RunwayModel]

I'd worry more about how much time the students are given to prepare for Step 1 than anything else. Yes, it would be nice to take whenever you want, but I'd rather have a school tell me when to take it and then give me a few months off for it than one giving me the option of taking it when I want but not having this scheduled time off.

Uh, I don't think ANY medical school will give you a "few months off" to study for Step 1. Max they will give you about 5 weeks.

 

[Ashers]

My school gave us 6 weeks off (I think the M2s this year get 5 weeks due to starting and ending later than normal, and their M3 year starts at the normal time, sucks to be them). I took 3.5 weeks to study, so I had a decent vacation.

I'm pretty sure that in order to go to 4th year, we need to have a passing score. I know some people who took step 1 in August, after they finished their first rotation in July, and August was their vacation month. Personally, I think that was kinda dumb, but I have no idea how well they did. I couldn't have studied for more than I did. Most of my friends took the test between 3 and 4 weeks of studying.

 

[fakin' the funk]

Which medical schools do not have a deadline in which to take USMLE Step 1 before third year? I would say, this should factor into a decision about choosing medical schools

You would say that, and you would be wrong