Step 1 Scores and Interview

[hawk126]

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Ok. So I just had an interview at UTMB last Friday and they spent a significant amount of time talking about their average Step 1 score of 230. Based on my limited information and what I've read on the Step 1 board, a class average of 230 seems pretty good... However, I need some context. I know that the national mean is approx 216, but to evaluate the above-mentioned 230 average, it'd be helpful to know what step 1 scores are like at other places: J-Blo state medical school(s) as well as schools like Hopkins and Harvard. Anybody have similar questions or know what the averages are at other schools? THANKS!!

 

[j-weezy]

Ok. So I just had an interview at UTMB last Friday and they spent a significant amount of time talking about their average Step 1 score of 230. Based on my limited information and what I've read on the Step 1 board, a class average of 230 seems pretty good... However, I need some context. I know that the national mean is approx 216, but to evaluate the above-mentioned 230 average, it'd be helpful to know what step 1 scores are like at other places: J-Blo state medical school(s) as well as schools like Hopkins and Harvard. Anybody have similar questions or know what the averages are at other schools? THANKS!!

Yes, UTMB has a high Step 1 average. From friends who've interviewed there in the past and/or attend there, I've been told that UTMB teaches the Step 1. As in the first two years are spent preparing you for the exam - instead of teaching you more or less of certain subjects and leaving it up to you to study for the Step 1. Hopefully that makes sense, I'm having a hard time explaining it any better.

-j

 

[lord_jeebus]

A high average Step I is a better measure of student ambition than medical education.

It is also a poor predictor of what you would get on Step I attending that school, because student performance is so variable.

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

There aren't any published reports of individual schools' Step I average scores or pass rates, but if you search SDN you'll find lots of threads with anecdotes (as in "the dean told me this" like you reported for UTMB). The national mean is indeed around 215-220 with a US allo pass rate of 91%, although we don't have numbers back for this year's exam just yet.

 

[Law2Doc]

... However, I need some context. I know that the national mean is approx 216, but to evaluate the above-mentioned 230 average, it'd be helpful to know what step 1 scores are like at other places:...

Most schools don't publish their Step 1 scores precisely to avoid premeds using them as part of their decision process. To do so would prevent schools from being able to be flexible and try new things -- to experiment with PBL, to incorporate more clinical exposure in the early years, more computerized training methodologies, etc. They wouldn't have a free hand to do this if they had to be concerned they would lose competitiveness in the eyes of applicants if their Step scores suffered as a result. So schools have made a conscious decision not to publish these scores.

Additionally, you will soon find that almost EVERY med school on the interview trail will seem to assert an above average Step scores. Hard to imagine that is so, but it is certainly an easy claim to make when no data gets published. Don't buy into the anecdotal numbers IMHO. The books are cooked.

 

[hawk126]

Yes, UTMB has a high Step 1 average. From friends who've interviewed there in the past and/or attend there, I've been told that UTMB teaches the Step 1. As in the first two years are spent preparing you for the exam - instead of teaching you more or less of certain subjects and leaving it up to you to study for the Step 1. Hopefully that makes sense, I'm having a hard time explaining it any better.

-j

Are you saying that this is a good or bad thing? My understanding is that Step 1 covers all, or nearly all, of the concepts learned in the first 2 years. If they teach the stuff needed to be successful on Step 1, theoretically, is that not the same content everyone else learns? If I learn everything that every other MS1 and MS2 learns and do it in a way that sets me up for success on the step isn't that a good thing? I'm probably just being obtuse, but I don't get the thrust of what you said. Thanks!

 

[lord_jeebus]

Are you saying that this is a good or bad thing? My understanding is that Step 1 covers all, or nearly all, of the concepts learned in the first 2 years. If they teach the stuff needed to be successful on Step 1, theoretically, is that not the same content everyone else learns? If I learn everything that every other MS1 and MS2 learns and do it in a way that sets me up for success on the step isn't that a good thing? I'm probably just being obtuse, but I don't get the thrust of what you said. Thanks!

Step 1 covers pretty much everything, but there are certain areas that are given much more emphasis (eg. pathology might have 100+ questions) than others (embryology might have 1 or 2). You could teach to the test by emphasizing the material that is much more likely to appear.

Wherever you go however, the key is to learn everything as well as you can.

 

[Blade28]

You shouldn't be using schools' published Step 1 scores as a deciding factor on which med school to attend.

 

[hawk126]

You shouldn't be using schools' published Step 1 scores as a deciding factor on which med school to attend.

I'm not. However, I am curious about the lay of the land with respect to Step 1 and after my interview I wanted some feedback from students in this forum. No need to condescend.

On a related note, it strikes me as ironic that admissions committees use, at least in part, objective measures like the MCAT to evaluate applicants, but it's considered taboo for me, as an applicant, to consider the school's Step 1 average as a measure of the efficacy of an institution's curriculum. Sheesh, major run-on sentence there.

 

[Blade28]

I'm not. However, I am curious about the lay of the land with respect to Step 1 and after my interview I wanted some feedback from students in this forum. No need to condescend.

On a related note, it strikes me as ironic that admissions committees use, at least in part, objective measures like the MCAT to evaluate applicants, but it's considered taboo for me, as an applicant, to consider the school's Step 1 average as a measure of the efficacy of an institution's curriculum. Sheesh, major run-on sentence there.

I wasn't being condescending - I apologize if that's the impression you got. I also wasn't directing my post at you (otherwise I would have quoted you), but rather at the discussion in general.

I think it's fair for adcoms to use the MCAT to evaluate an applicant because it's a measure of that particular applicant's skill/ability/hard work/aptitude/reasoning skills/etc. Looking at a school's Step 1 scores is just looking at how "smart" those students are - which doesn't tell you much about the school itself, necessarily.

Certain schools may prepare you for Step 1 a little better than others, or maybe they allow more time off to study, etc. - but in the end, it's more a reflection of what the students are like.

I mean, if you're in a situation where you're trying to decide between two schools, all else being equal, you may take the school with the higher average Step 1 scores. But that's pretty much never the case. 🙂

 

[45408]

Additionally, you will soon find that almost EVERY med school on the interview trail will seem to assert an above average Step scores. Hard to imagine that is so, but it is certainly an easy claim to make when no data gets published. Don't buy into the anecdotal numbers IMHO. The books are cooked.

Actually, most allo schools probably do have an average above the national average, considering that there are plenty of FMGs, DOs, Caribbean, etc. students also taking the USMLE. Not only that, but most of the schools discussed on SDN are the above average schools anyways - the national MCAT average for med school matriculants is a 30, but the SDN "safety schools" are those with an MCAT average of a 30. The State Med School of Nowhere that has a small in-state pool of applicants and doesn't take OOS students is probably going to have a lower caliber of students than the average.

 

[SoCuteMD]

Actually, most allo schools probably do have an average above the national average, considering that there are plenty of FMGs, DOs, Caribbean, etc. students also taking the USMLE. Not only that, but most of the schools discussed on SDN are the above average schools anyways - the national MCAT average for med school matriculants is a 30, but the SDN "safety schools" are those with an MCAT average of a 30. The State Med School of Nowhere that has a small in-state pool of applicants and doesn't take OOS students is probably going to have a lower caliber of students than the average.

The national Step 1 average is based only on United States medical school students.

 

[hawk126]

I wasn't being condescending - I apologize if that's the impression you got. I also wasn't directing my post at you (otherwise I would have quoted you), but rather at the discussion in general.

I think it's fair for adcoms to use the MCAT to evaluate an applicant because it's a measure of that particular applicant's skill/ability/hard work/aptitude/reasoning skills/etc. Looking at a school's Step 1 scores is just looking at how "smart" those students are - which doesn't tell you much about the school itself, necessarily.

Certain schools may prepare you for Step 1 a little better than others, or maybe they allow more time off to study, etc. - but in the end, it's more a reflection of what the students are like.

I mean, if you're in a situation where you're trying to decide between two schools, all else being equal, you may take the school with the higher average Step 1 scores. But that's pretty much never the case. 🙂

I definitely see your point re: the questionable validity of step 1 scores as a measure of a school's curriculum. In fact, given the posts I've read in the Step 1 forum, I had come to a similar conclusion. The reason I was asking (and I didn't make this clear at the outset) is that I was somewhat surprised at UTMB's Step 1 average because their median accepted MCAT score is a 29... which is not to say that a 29 isn't a great MCAT score. Moreover, I got the impression at my interview day that the students are very "laid back," which, I guess, didn't match up with my idea of how a student body that averages a 230 on step 1 would be characterized. Thanks for the response and apologies for the misunderstanding.

 

[Law2Doc]

The national Step 1 average is based only on United States medical school students.

Exactly.

 

[Blade28]

Thanks for the response and apologies for the misunderstanding.

No problem, no hard feelings! At any rate, good luck in this whole (crazy, unpredictable, sometimes random) process! 👍

 

[45408]

The national Step 1 average is based only on United States medical school students.

I stand corrected. Either way, there are quite a few medical schools that are almost never mentioned on SDN, and those are likely the ones with lower averages. Reading through threads that say that Hopkins, Northwestern, Stanford, UCSF and Pritzker are all claiming above average board scores shouldn't lead anyone to believe that half of those schools are lying.