Step 1 vs MCAT

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Which exam is higher stakes (assuming you are not aiming for ENT/plastics/ortho)?

  • USMLE Step 1

    Votes: 129 74.6%
  • MCAT

    Votes: 44 25.4%

  • Total voters
    173
Yea, I thought this was a recent thread and he didn't update his post No. 1. Congrats to him. Smarter is indeterminate, but more hardworking is definitive b/c med school naturally conditions students to have better work ethics and time management, which ultimately improves academic performance.
Why is smarter indeterminate?
Some guy with crazy hair that changed the world said it best: "Everybody is a Genius. But If You Judge a Fish by Its Ability to Climb a Tree, It Will Live Its Whole Life Believing that It is Stupid"

but aren't both exams testing aptitude for the sciences as well as analytical/test taking skills and reasoning ability? not really surprising that natural intelligence plays a role. that's why people who do well on the MCAT usually do well on Step 1, with OP being an example.
 
Some guy with crazy hair that changed the world said it best: "Everybody is a Genius. But If You Judge a Fish by Its Ability to Climb a Tree, It Will Live Its Whole Life Believing that It is Stupid"
You don't get into med school without being smart. You can be pre-med and take the MCAT without being smart.
 
Definitely feel like this thread is more appropriate in Allo, and not pre-allo.
 
but aren't both exams testing aptitude for the sciences as well as analytical/test taking skills and reasoning ability? not really surprising that natural intelligence plays a role. that's why people who do well on the MCAT usually do well on Step 1, with OP being an example.
Certainly intelligence is important to answer STEP questions by integrating basic sciences knowledge, but I think it's equally/more important on how an individual utilizes that intelligence. At the end of the day it's mostly hustle. Everyone is smart in medical school, but the ones who generally excel are the studious people who work their behind off. Causation does not imply correlation. People who generally do well on MCAT have good work ethics and therefore their habits carry along over with USMLE. Granted there are outliers and some people are efficient at connecting information and extracting high yield concepts.
 
You don't get into med school without being smart. You can be pre-med and take the MCAT without being smart.
alright, invent an IQ-telling-machine and I'll retract my statement that "smarter" is indeterminate from two different test taking pools.
 
alright, invent an IQ-telling-machine and I'll retract my statement that "smarter" is indeterminate from two different test taking pools.
I administer/score IQ tests, so I kind of am an IQ-telling-machine 😛
 
I administer/score IQ tests, so I kind of am an IQ-telling-machine 😛
You mean those tests that charge people an absurd amount of money just to fill in their gap of intellectual insecurity? Oh... since you know... intelligence is highly objective and everyone agrees on the same metric of scaling IQ. #notbeingsarcastic#imforealbro
 
step 1 by far. although the average is much higher than the pass score while comparing the average of the MCAT vs "matriculation score". The test is harder, the students brighter and the real possibility of failing exists without any do overs.
You are screwed with a below average step 1 score.

My stress level for each of these tests weren't even close. MCAT seemed like a test of careful reading and reasoning. Whereas STEPS (all 3) were much more knowledge based with lots of 3rd order questions. If you know 2 of the 3 parts, you're out of luck. Therefore studying was much more detailed.

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You mean those tests that charge people an absurd amount of money just to fill in their gap of intellectual insecurity? Oh... since you know... intelligence is highly objective and everyone agrees on the same metric of scaling IQ. #notbeingsarcastic#imforealbro
Mensa used to take MCAT scores in lieu of IQ tests.
 
step 1 by far. although the average is much higher than the pass score while comparing the average of the MCAT vs "matriculation score". The test is harder, the students brighter and the real possibility of failing exists without any do overs.
You are screwed with a below average step 1 score.

My stress level for each of these tests weren't even close. MCAT seemed like a test of careful reading and reasoning. Whereas STEPS (all 3) were much more knowledge based with lots of 3rd order questions. If you know 2 of the 3 parts, you're out of luck. Therefore studying was much more detailed.

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Is "3rd order" "2nd order" the new buzz words? I hear them a whole lot especially from people taking step.
 
Is "3rd order" "2nd order" the new buzz words? I hear them a whole lot especially from people taking step.
i am an attending now so its been 5+ yrs but the term was around then as well.
A good example
1st order
what color is the sky? blue

Step question (poor question off the top of my head)
A 30 ye female presents to the ED with side effects from her treatment. for the past few weeks she has been experiencing weakness and changes in vision. Which of the following is the most likely side effects she is experiencing?

(you need to know she has MS. 2nd, acute excerbations high dose steroids is typical treatment. 3rd, you need to know the side effects)

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Is "3rd order" "2nd order" the new buzz words? I hear them a whole lot especially from people taking step.

I would hope somebody entering medical school would at least have some curiosity and respect from the people who have been there and taken the test in question. I'll try to explain..

1st order question: What are the expected bicarb levels, pH, and pCO2 in a respiratory alkalosis? (they give you a bunch of numbers to choose from and you pick it). You may get something like this in 2nd year, but honestly, I'd say it's a crappy question.

2nd order question: The patient comes in with these acid base numbers disturbances, what do they have (ie. resp alk, metabolic alkalosis, metabolic acidosis, mixed, etc.)? (only seen really in first or early second year)

3rd order question:
An anxious young woman presents to the emergency department because of acute-onset severe abdominal pain. She consumed eight or nine alcoholic drinks earlier in the evening. She also admits to using diuretics to "lose water weight." Physical examination reveals periumbilical tenderness to palpation. Her stool is guaiac negative. Arterial blood gas analysis reveals a pH of 7.55, a bicarbonate level of 21 mEq/L, and a partial pressure of carbon dioxide of 25 mm Hg. Her sodium level is within normal limits. Which of the following is the most likely cause of her acid-base disturbance?
A. An accumulation of unmeasured anions as a result of hepatic metabolism of alcohol
B. Electrolyte imbalance due to diuretic use
C. Hyperventilation secondary to pain and anxiety
D. Hypoventilation due to the respiratory depression caused by alcohol ingestion
E. Vomiting due to alcohol toxicity

The answer is C. She's got a respiratory alkalosis and is blowing off CO2 cause of her pain (probably pancreatitis but it doesn't really matter). You're supposed to ignore the other crap, recognize the respiratory alkalosis in the numbers and that it is often associated with pain (especially abdominal) answer and move on.
 
I am sure there is a FP clinic In North Dakota or Alaska that would take you.

Admittedly hings look very different from this end of the medical school process, but I'd guess that I'm not alone in saying that if my options were to practice FM in North Dakota then I'd seek another career. No offense to FM docs or ND, but that's not what I went to medical school for.
 
I would hope somebody entering medical school would at least have some curiosity and respect from the people who have been there and taken the test in question. I'll try to explain..

1st order question: What are the expected bicarb levels, pH, and pCO2 in a respiratory alkalosis? (they give you a bunch of numbers to choose from and you pick it). You may get something like this in 2nd year, but honestly, I'd say it's a crappy question.

2nd order question: The patient comes in with these acid base numbers disturbances, what do they have (ie. resp alk, metabolic alkalosis, metabolic acidosis, mixed, etc.)? (only seen really in first or early second year)

3rd order question:
An anxious young woman presents to the emergency department because of acute-onset severe abdominal pain. She consumed eight or nine alcoholic drinks earlier in the evening. She also admits to using diuretics to "lose water weight." Physical examination reveals periumbilical tenderness to palpation. Her stool is guaiac negative. Arterial blood gas analysis reveals a pH of 7.55, a bicarbonate level of 21 mEq/L, and a partial pressure of carbon dioxide of 25 mm Hg. Her sodium level is within normal limits. Which of the following is the most likely cause of her acid-base disturbance?
A. An accumulation of unmeasured anions as a result of hepatic metabolism of alcohol
B. Electrolyte imbalance due to diuretic use
C. Hyperventilation secondary to pain and anxiety
D. Hypoventilation due to the respiratory depression caused by alcohol ingestion
E. Vomiting due to alcohol toxicity

The answer is C. She's got a respiratory alkalosis and is blowing off CO2 cause of her pain (probably pancreatitis but it doesn't really matter). You're supposed to ignore the other crap, recognize the respiratory alkalosis in the numbers and that it is often associated with pain (especially abdominal) answer and move on.
My question was out of curiosity not any perceived disrespect. I understand the concept, but I have heard it used in the financial industry by howard marks, I was just curious if it is a new thing that everyone talks about or if it had always been used and I am only now getting exposed to it. Do people also talk about mental scaffolding?
 
My question was out of curiosity not any perceived disrespect. I understand the concept, but I have heard it used in the financial industry by howard marks, I was just curious if it is a new thing that everyone talks about or if it had always been used and I am only now getting exposed to it. Do people also talk about mental scaffolding?

I can't say I've ever hear that word used. Maybe other schools do...?
 
USMLE Q in the 1970s (all 1st order to keep it simple):

What color is a banana?
A. Pokemon
B. Shoe
C. Answer is D
D. Yellow

Correct answer is D, yellow. Congratulations you are a doctor.

USMLE Q 2017:

[insert clinical vignette w/ confusing semantics, throw in a couple paragraphs to weed off the people w/ english as 2nd language, take out hints from pics e.g. auer rods, target cells, and keywords i.e. "hearing loss" problem resulting from alport's]?
A. Why didn't I become a rocket scientist?
B. Why didn't I become an investment banker?
C. Why didn't I become a pharmacist?
D. Why didn't I become a banana?
E. Oh look a penny!
F. Yep in screwed
G. I wonder if I get free starbucks coffee if I work there to pay off my student loans
H. LOL Donald Trump
I-Z. Whatever
 
i have not heard of that term either

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Admittedly hings look very different from this end of the medical school process, but I'd guess that I'm not alone in saying that if my options were to practice FM in North Dakota then I'd seek another career. No offense to FM docs or ND, but that's not what I went to medical school for.

What speciality have you decided on?
 
What speciality have you decided on?
Your sig caught my attn. What if, hypothetically, a t10 school fell out of t10 and subsequently the 11th ranked school were bumped up to t10. Since the ranked list is dynamic, does that potentially make MD school easy for the prev t11 and more of a struggle for the prev t10?
 
What speciality have you decided on?

I'm planning to go into academic practice in a surgical subspecialty.

No doubt I would've felt differently about this topic prior to starting medical school, but after years of working your ass off and many thousands in debt the idea of "just" going into some random specialty you don't like in somewhere you really don't want to live (or your SO/family doesn't want to live) is not very appealing. Then again I'm sure other med students feel differently than I do.
 
Your sig caught my attn. What if, hypothetically, a t10 school fell out of t10 and subsequently the 11th ranked school were bumped up to t10. Since the ranked list is dynamic, does that potentially make MD school easy for the prev t11 and more of a struggle for the prev t10?
If a school is no longer in the t10, its student body has fallen into the abyss of mediocrity and is clearly no longer capable of handling med school work with ease.
 
If a school is no longer in the t10, its student body has fallen into the abyss of mediocrity and is clearly no longer capable of handling med school work with ease.
I forgot that every student in a t10 is superior to even the t11's brightest student, which makes your logic infallible.
 
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