Step 2 CK and MD/PhD

[kapMD/PhD]

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so... our school is pretty new to the MD/PhD program (our first 2 graduate this year). I was wondering how MD/PhD students compare in step 2 CK scores relative to traditional students? Any schools have programs to help us out? or Jump start your clinical learning? Thanks for any tips you may have.

 

[Vader]

This is a great question--and one for which I don't know if there are data. This is particularly important for students considering residencies that factor in CK scores in evaluating applicants.

My school does not have any specific program to help out MSTP students for Step 2 CK. Much of the clinical knowledge is acquired during 3rd year clerkships. CK focuses mostly on diagnosis, with less basic mechanisms, and a bit of management. There is a hefty amount of medicine, OB/GYN and pediatrics on it. I prepared for it using the tools most other students use--USMLE World, the usual review books, etc.

What really needs to be jumpstarted is familiarity with the clinical world and some commonly encountered clinical problems, expectations on the wards, and what exactly you are being evaluated on. Our medical school does have an "introduction to wards" type 2 week program for all 3rd year medical students starting clerkships. This was quite valuable, but not necessarily geared toward MSTPs. In addition, our MSTP program has medical sciences grand rounds in which clinical cases are presented, and encourages us to do a longitudinal preceptorship with a clinical mentor during the graduate school years, in order to maintain some contact with medicine. Some students also do one clerkship before they start graduate school, which gives them some clinical exposure earlier. Although all these things help, the transition is still very difficult and the perfect solution has not been identified, at least at my program.

 

[QofQuimica]

so... our school is pretty new to the MD/PhD program (our first 2 graduate this year). I was wondering how MD/PhD students compare in step 2 CK scores relative to traditional students? Any schools have programs to help us out? or Jump start your clinical learning? Thanks for any tips you may have.

Do you do your PhD after your third year of med school instead of your second? If you come back to doing third year after your PhD, I'm not sure I understand why you'd be at a major disadvantage, since you'd have a year of rotations under your belt before taking CK just like any other med student would. If you do third year before your PhD, you might consider taking CK before you start your research.

 

[gbwillner]

so... our school is pretty new to the MD/PhD program (our first 2 graduate this year). I was wondering how MD/PhD students compare in step 2 CK scores relative to traditional students? Any schools have programs to help us out? or Jump start your clinical learning? Thanks for any tips you may have.

It doesn't really matter, unless you did terribly on Step 1, no one will care what your CK score is. trust me.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

so... our school is pretty new to the MD/PhD program (our first 2 graduate this year). I was wondering how MD/PhD students compare in step 2 CK scores relative to traditional students? Any schools have programs to help us out? or Jump start your clinical learning? Thanks for any tips you may have.

Where are you right now in your training?

You can avoid all the Step 2 CK nonsense by rocking the Step 1. That way the Step 2 CK score won't matter much and might not even be necessary for most programs to rank you.

 

[Tradewind]

I don't know how MD v MD/PhD compare in terms of CK scores.

A lot of med students (then residents) simply don't study as hard for Step II (then III), since a high Step I is what's more important for the match process. For many, after that, the goal is to make sure you pass. If you didn't do as well as you liked on Step I, I'd say to study more for Step II and take it earlier, so that programs can see the results.

All of this being said, there's been a trend of programs wanting to see step II scores. This is because more and more applicants have both scores, and also because programs want to make sure II won't be a problem for the applicant. I could see that in the next several years, if the trend continues and say 95% of applicants are taking both steps early, it could become an unspoken expectation. So I'd keep asking this question now and then. For now, for most programs, Step I is enough for the match process. (If you did well enough for whatever program/specialty you're going into..)

 

[kapMD/PhD]

I'm actually finishing phd (in 1.5 wks 🙂 ) and going back to M3 in June. This is the way that our school does it as of now but they may be changing to 1:3:3 or 3:3:1 in the near future for step reasons (not poor step 2, but because of the USMLE changes overall and the potential combination of the steps).
I did fine on Step 1, but will still take step 2 in time for schools to see it before residency aps (WOW i can't believe i'm finally at a point where even considering this is not ludicrous!); regardless if there was a way to help out the upcoming students at my school- i'd like to know to try to implement the needed changes. And it would be nice to have some data showing MD/PhD v. MD on Step 2 - just to know if nothing else.
Thanks friends.

 

[Shifty B]

I am an MSTP student who has taken step 2 CK. Overall, it really doesn't matter that you spent 4 years or so off. Almost all of step 2 comes from clinical knowledge that you will pick up in your clerkships, as long as you see a sufficient number of patients on your rotations. Anyone who learns by doing will find step 2 MUCH easer than step 1, and it requires less studying. If you want to do well, USMLEworld is the single best way to prepare.

That being said, less competitive specialties (medicine, neuro, maybe surgery) are definitely not very interested in step 2. More competitive may give it a look before they make their rank list.

It also depends on your step 1. If you rocked it (> 240-250), seriously consider delaying step 2 until after rank lists are due. As an aside, it's too bad though that step 1 averages have crept up over the years. I think it was something like 212-215 when I took it, but now it's something like 220-225.

 

[echod]

As an aside, it's too bad though that step 1 averages have crept up over the years. I think it was something like 212-215 when I took it, but now it's something like 220-225.

I've read comments like this from time to time, but it's hard for me to understand how this is possible. USMLE is scaled to have about the same mean and standard deviation each year. Can someone provide data whether the above claim is true or not? Or explain to me how it is possible?