Steve O changes his mind

[Gas you down]

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Steve O changes his mind

TLDR Looks like he was about to get breast implants, but the anesthesiologist caught wind and said no go.
How did it get that far anyway?! Did the surgeon just agree with this craziness? He fooled them?

 

[Hoya11]

Steve O changes his mind

TLDR Looks like he was about to get breast implants, but the anesthesiologist caught wind and said no go.
How did it get that far anyway?! Did the surgeon just agree with this craziness? He fooled them?

I’m sure the surgeon still pushed back for cancelling , sometimes we have to be the ones with the moral compass

 

[pgg]

I’m sure the surgeon still pushed back for cancelling , sometimes we have to be the ones with the moral compass

Damn anesthesia being obstructive, as usual.

 

[arsene19]

An underlying goal was to fool people with his body type. And it took a conversation with a trans person to enlighten him about that.

Are we sure he’s not secretly a Trump advisor?

 

[nimbus]

He’s done worse and more dangerous things for attention but the anesthesiologist was wise not to participate.

 

[UscGhost]

Its an interesting ethical discussion.

Why are we ok with a Brazilian butt lift which is vastly more dangerous and just for different superficial reasons?

Or a face lift on an 80 year old patient. Vastly more dangerous than a boob job for Steve.

 

[nimbus]

Its an interesting ethical discussion.

Why are we ok with a Brazilian butt lift which is vastly more dangerous and just for different superficial reasons?

Or a face lift on an 80 year old patient. Vastly more dangerous than a boob job for Steve.

Not my thing but speaks to our collective values as a society.

 

[nimbus]

Steve O changes his mind

TLDR Looks like he was about to get breast implants, but the anesthesiologist caught wind and said no go.
How did it get that far anyway?! Did the surgeon just agree with this craziness? He fooled them?

I just read the entire article. I’m impressed how thoughtful he is.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

I just read the entire article. I’m impressed how thoughtful he is.

Steve O has come a long way since he sobered up.

 

[Beeftenderloin]

Mostly just playing devils advocate, but I’m having a hard time understanding how this is substantially different than ANY COSMETIC SURGERY EVER. It’s all elective. If the individual requesting the surgery is of sound mind, and there’s a similarly sound minded surgeon willing to perform the surgery, who am I to stand in the way? Would you cancel a facelift because you think the patient looks fine? Of course not…

 

[rowsdower88]

Mostly just playing devils advocate, but I’m having a hard time understanding how this is substantially different than ANY COSMETIC SURGERY EVER. It’s all elective. If the individual requesting the surgery is of sound mind, and there’s a similarly sound minded surgeon willing to perform the surgery, who am I to stand in the way? Would you cancel a facelift because you think the patient looks fine? Of course not…

I think it's reasonable to question if a surgical plan is in the patient's best interests (including cosmetic surgery). Anyone can refuse to participate in an elective procedure they don't feel comfortable with.

I would hope anyone who talked with Steve-O for 5 minutes could determine if this procedure is something that he sincerely believes will benefit him or is something he will regret enough to have reversed at some point. I think there's probably some professional responsibility to have that conversation.

The text of the article quotes Steve-O: "the anesthesiologist found out it was me doing it as a stunt". I would say "doing it as a stunt" negates any sincerely held belief by Steve-O that this would be good for his health.

I wouldn't cancel a facelift because I think the patient looks fine, I would cancel it if I had high enough doubt that it would be in patient's best interests though.

 

[Beeftenderloin]

I think it's reasonable to question if a surgical plan is in the patient's best interests (including cosmetic surgery). Anyone can refuse to participate in an elective procedure they don't feel comfortable with.

I would hope anyone who talked with Steve-O for 5 minutes could determine if this procedure is something that he sincerely believes will benefit him or is something he will regret enough to have reversed at some point. I think there's probably some professional responsibility to have that conversation.

The text of the article quotes Steve-O: "the anesthesiologist found out it was me doing it as a stunt". I would say "doing it as a stunt" negates any sincerely held belief by Steve-O that this would be good for his health.

I wouldn't cancel a facelift because I think the patient looks fine, I would cancel it if I had high enough doubt that it would be in patient's best interests though.

It’s wild that you think you could know what’s best for someone better than they do. I‘ve gleaned from other posts that you’re quite liberal/progressive. Roundly ignoring a sound minded individuals right to do whatever they want with their body (as long as it doesn’t harm others or otherwise infringe on others rights), is eerily similar to someone prohibiting someone from getting an abortion simply because they don’t agree with it.

Pranking/making people mad ≠ harm.

 

[rowsdower88]

It’s wild that you think you could know what’s best for someone better than they do. I‘ve gleaned from other posts that you’re quite liberal/progressive. Roundly ignoring a sound minded individuals right to do whatever they want with their body (as long as it doesn’t harm others or otherwise infringe on others rights), is eerily similar to someone prohibiting someone from getting an abortion simply because they don’t agree with it.

Pranking/making people mad ≠ harm.

Steve-O admitted it was a stunt.

I wouldn't help him try to cut his own arm off either. You're operating under the presumption that Steve-O was getting this done due to a sincerely held belief for his health. I would challenge that assumption.

It's an elective case. Find someone else, maybe you I guess. I don't begrudge some providers who are unwilling to participate in elective abortions either.

"Pranking/making people mad ≠ harm." - You're right. But that's not the only potential harm associated with surgery or anesthesia.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

I wouldn't cancel a facelift because I think the patient looks fine, I would cancel it if I had high enough doubt that it would be in patient's best interests though.

Like what? What if you think they are going to go broke and get evicted?

 

[rowsdower88]

Like what?

If the patient admitted they wanted it done "as a stunt".

That suggests to me that the patient isn't doing it to better their heath at the very least. Unless we're saying the expected money gained would benefit Steve-O more than the harm/risks associated with the procedure. Maybe a deeper conversation with the patient could give me reasons to doubt that impression, or give me more reasons to not perform the procedure. Every doc can have their own calculation, but ultimately it would be a consideration of whether or not the benefit is greater than the harm.

Edit: Lol, "what if they go broke and get evicted"? Well I would first question if the out of pocket cost of plastic surgery shouldn't be the patient's first concern. The patient could make that case to me and I would listen, maybe they could persuade me I guess.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

If the patient admitted they wanted it done "as a stunt".

That suggests to me that the patient isn't doing it to better their heath at the very least. Unless we're saying the expected money gained would benefit Steve-O more than the harm/risks associated with the procedure. Maybe a deeper conversation with the patient could give me reasons to doubt that impression, or give me more reasons to not perform the procedure. Every doc can have their own calculation, but ultimately it would be a consideration of whether or not the benefit is greater than the harm.

Edit: Lol, "what if they go broke and get evicted"? Well I would first question if the out of pocket cost of plastic surgery shouldn't be the patient's first concern. The patient could make that case to me and I would listen, maybe they could persuade me I guess.

You are dodging the question. Who are you to say what is in a patient’s best interests unless it is something obvious?

Steve O is an outlier. What if he still wanted it done even if he admiited it was dumb? Woupd you recuse yourself?

 

[rowsdower88]

You are dodging the question. Who are you to say what is in a patient’s best interests unless it is something obvious?

Steve O is an outlier. What if he still wanted it done even if he admiited it was dumb? Woupd you recuse yourself?

Not trying to dodge it. I would likely only cancel the case if it WAS something so obvious.

Dumb could mean a lot of things. I'm going to assume "dumb" means "not going to benefit my health". If that's true, then yup I would cancel. Is there any procedure you would do that is not expected to benefit a patient's health? (I wouldn't expect every doctor to agree to participate with euthanasia either. I'm saying this as someone who generally believes in gender affirming surgery and euthanasia.)

I would let @Beeftenderloin do it if he thinks it's in the patient's best interest. It's an elective procedure.

 

[Beeftenderloin]

Steve-O admitted it was a stunt.

I wouldn't help him try to cut his own arm off either. You're operating under the presumption that Steve-O was getting this done due to a sincerely held belief for his health. I would challenge that assumption.

It's an elective case. Find someone else, maybe you I guess. I don't begrudge some providers who are unwilling to participate in elective abortions either.

"Pranking/making people mad ≠ harm." - You're right. But that's not the only potential harm associated with surgery or anesthesia.

Why can’t people do something to their body for a stunt? It’s a stunt supporting his livelihood. The value proposition of surgical/anesthetic risks vs potential benefit to his life can only be determined by him. We help inform that decision, but it’s not ours to make.

I think most elective cosmetic surgery is stupid and have intentionally positioned myself in a job that doesn’t do any of it. If for whatever reason this case did fall in my lap, I’d probably just run it by hospital risk management and if they gave me their blessing I’d do the case.

 

[pgg]

People aren't actually free unless they're free to make bad decisions. Even very bad decisions that ruin their lives. From riding a motorcycle to getting cosmetic surgery, if they want to pay the price and take the risk in return for whatever happiness or thrill or cash payout it brings them - it should be up to them. Or we're just pretending that we value freedom and autonomy.

If some guy wants to alter his body it's not my place to get in his way. He doesn't need a "good" reason. If he feels like it is reason enough.

That said, I'm not obligated to help him get an elective procedure. I don't need a "good" reason to not take part. If I don't feel like it is reason enough.

Any elective procedure with a bit of controversy to it can be scheduled in advance with physicians and other staff who are OK with it. This is only a problem for people who want it to be a problem.

 

[rowsdower88]

Why can’t people do something to their body for a stunt? It’s a stunt supporting his livelihood. The value proposition of surgical/anesthetic risks vs potential benefit to his life can only be determined by him. We help inform that decision, but it’s not ours to make.

I think most elective cosmetic surgery is stupid and have intentionally positioned myself in a job that doesn’t do any of it. If for whatever reason this case did fall in my lap, I’d probably just run it by hospital risk management and if they gave me their blessing I’d do the case.

I'd prefer to not participate in that surgery, but if there are docs who disagree with me and want to assist I'm not going to try and stop them. I might be more concerned if we didn't literally live in the most healthcare rich country in the world where he could undoubtedly find alternative care from other physicians.

People engage in risky, thrill-seeking behavior all the time, but rarely is someone forced to condone or participate in it.

I think people can be wrong about their internal value propositions. In this case, Steve O realized he was wrong about it, it just took some time. I'm very comfortable with the idea of giving Steve O some time to contemplate his decisions before proceeding with another anesthesiologist. Wouldn't you say the doc made the right call given how things turned out? If he was serious about it he could have gotten it done somewhere, no doubt. This wasn't an unpredictable outcome.