Still not 100 percent

[FLAPILOT]

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I've just started back to school after a long abscence and I know that I'm looking to shift gears to a career in medicine, but I still haven't quite made up my mind if I want to pursue the doctor route. (Quick background, I'm pushing 40 and I have a low undergrad gpa, 2.7) I still have a couple years of prereqs to get through and I was wondering if I took the PCAT along the way (before I took the MCAT) would it appear to med schools that I'm not entirely committed? Basically, would it look bad? Would they even be able to see if I took the PCAT? And vice-versa with the MCAT, would pharmacy programs look down on me taking the MCAT first?

 

[beckhunter116]

I don't think they can see scores like that, but we'll see what other people say. Have you thought of PA school?

 

[FLAPILOT]

Yeah, I'm considering that pathway as well, but this is something I'm going to be doing until I retire, and for some reason I just can't picture myself as a PA when I'm in my fifties and sixties. Maybe I'm just being ridiculous.

 

[beckhunter116]

Maybe you need to explain why you can't see yourself being a PA at 50 or 60. Like you don't think they have all that much responsibility or authority? I guess I'm not clear on what you are getting at.

Being an MD/DO vs. PA is different; however, in some fields that difference can be very slight for example EM, IM, and FP especially depending on your location. In a rural ER, a PA may be running the shift.

 

[sgtbrushes]

If med schools even find out you took the PCAT, no, they will not use it to question your dedication to medicine. You will, however, find age discrimination at pretty much every step along the process, because you will be in your 40s for matriculation. As beckhunter suggested, you may want to look more into being a PA. You will be great than 50 years old before you are done with residency.

 

[njbmd]

I've just started back to school after a long abscence and I know that I'm looking to shift gears to a career in medicine, but I still haven't quite made up my mind if I want to pursue the doctor route. (Quick background, I'm pushing 40 and I have a low undergrad gpa, 2.7) I still have a couple years of prereqs to get through and I was wondering if I took the PCAT along the way (before I took the MCAT) would it appear to med schools that I'm not entirely committed? Basically, would it look bad? Would they even be able to see if I took the PCAT? And vice-versa with the MCAT, would pharmacy programs look down on me taking the MCAT first?

A 2.7 is going to take some time and some money to raise into something that will be competitive for medical school. I am talking several years of work with grades of A.

If you want to pursue pharmacy school, then take the PCAT. It has nothing to do with the medical college admissions test (MCAT) and those scores are not released to a medical school admissions committee. The scores of the MCAT are not released to the admissions folks of a pharmacy school. These two entities are entirely separate even if their offices are located in the same building.

Your 2.7 is not going to cut it for PA school either. Most programs require a minimum 3.0 and depending on how many hours you have, you need some time to raise that GPA. PA is not a "fall back" because you couldn't get into medical school. Most PA applicants would be competitive for medical school.

 

[MexicanDr]

in some fields that difference can be very slight for example EM, IM, and FP especially depending on your location. In a rural ER, a PA may be running the shift.

I agree, in a rural area EM PAs run the show, but in bigger hospitals PA really dont participate much in big trauma calls in Trauma Center Levels 1/2. I have been there and seen it, that was one of the main reasons I changed from Pre-PA to Pre-Med. PAs are great providers, but if you dont want to feel your self limited in any sense, go for the MD/DO.

 

[deleted6669]

in bigger hospitals PA really dont participate much in big trauma calls in Trauma Center Levels 1/2. .

really depends on the facility. I work at level 1, 2, and 4(rural) depratments which all use pa's(yes, I work too much...). at the level 1 and 2 ctrs there are in house trauma teams with pa's on them who have significant roles including central line placement, chest tubes, fast exams, etc and they are often the first person to see the pt. and start the workup before the attendings arrive.
at my rural job I see whatever comes in the door.

a 2.7 will not cut it anywhere for getting into pa school. many programs have 1000 applications for 200 interviews for 30 spots. at my local program the avg student accepted this yr had a 3.5 gpa and > 8000 hrs of prior health care experience in addition to volunteering and community service. the min. cutoff to even get offered an interview is 4000 hrs.
several folks who did not get into the pa program did get into the md program at the same school.

I know many pa's in their 50's and 60's. they are all doing well financially, have no debt, drive nice cars and live in nice homes. not a bad life overall.

 

[gman33]

Figure out what you want to do. If you can find something else besides MD, do that. You said you can't see yourself as a PA in your 50s and 60s.
If you are 40 now, with a low gpa, you probably won't even be done your residency until you are in your 50s.

Starting with a 2.7 gpa, MD schools are going to take a whole bunch of years of work to become remotely competitive.
Actually, same thing for PA schools.
In many cases, PA takes longer up front because they have more prereqs and guidelines for prior healthcare experience.

I would just recommend doing your research, deciding on a field, and make sure you have a realistic plan of how long the whole process is going to take.

 

[sindadel]

If you think you want to do medicine, DO sounds like the best option to me because of grade replacement. Particularly if your poor grades are due to some D's and F's and not a solid string of B-'s, they will come up fast if you retake the classes you did poorly in and make A's. I don't know if PA applications do grade replacement though. MD grade rehab takes forever!

Good luck on figuring out, and I think it's the rare person who feels 100% about any decision as large as this one. 🙂

 

[FLAPILOT]

I appreciate the advice from everyone, I certainly don't want to be taking classes for the next three years only to get shot down at any career path I choose. I don't know if this helps my situation but I pretty much haven't taken ANY of the science prereqs (except physics) for MD, Pharm, or PA. And any other prereqs that I have taken were more than ten years ago, so I'd probably have to retake those as well. So as far as my science gpa is concerned, I almost have a clean slate. So I'm hoping that after I take all the prereqs and some additional upper-level bio courses I can get my overall gpa a little above 3.0 and put myself into a better position.

 

[lawyerdoc2b]

I appreciate the advice from everyone, I certainly don't want to be taking classes for the next three years only to get shot down at any career path I choose. I don't know if this helps my situation but I pretty much haven't taken ANY of the science prereqs (except physics) for MD, Pharm, or PA. And any other prereqs that I have taken were more than ten years ago, so I'd probably have to retake those as well. So as far as my science gpa is concerned, I almost have a clean slate. So I'm hoping that after I take all the prereqs and some additional upper-level bio courses I can get my overall gpa a little above 3.0 and put myself into a better position.

FLAPILOT,

I am 52 and begin medical school in August 2010 one month shy of my 53rd birthday. After 20 years as a lawyer, I went to college at night for three years and took all of the science course to get into medical school.

Consider D.O. instead of M.D. because AACOMAS substitutes high grades in repeat courses. This is the quickest way to comlplete your coursework and raise your GPA to a competive number.

First however you need to decide if you have the burning desire to be a doctor. If not, decide on something else. I decided that I could not see myself doing anything else for the rest of my life.

Age discrimination is a consideration. I overcame it if it was a factor in my case. You can do this if you want to do so.

 

[mrivera]

I know this is COMPLETLY OFFTOPIC but the title reminded me of Dragonball Z.. and how Cell would always say "still not 100%" because he needed to absorb Android 17 or 18....

It is unfortunate your GPA is this low, but with a strong MCAT/PCAT you can make up for it... but thats easier said than done. I would take both exams. You are likely to do much better on the PCAT than the MCAT.

 

[FLAPILOT]

It looks like I'm leaning towards Pharm... However, I do want to keep my options open. I know MD schools want you to take the prereqs at a four-year school... what about DO schools? Does anyone know if DO schools emphasize taking the prereqs at a four-year school? I'm currently taking my prereqs for Pharm at Daytona State, which is basically a glorified CC, and I'm just trying to determine if I should transfer to another institution to "keep the dream alive."

 

[Segovia]

It looks like I'm leaning towards Pharm... However, I do want to keep my options open. I know MD schools want you to take the prereqs at a four-year school... what about DO schools? Does anyone know if DO schools emphasize taking the prereqs at a four-year school? I'm currently taking my prereqs for Pharm at Daytona State, which is basically a glorified CC, and I'm just trying to determine if I should transfer to another institution to "keep the dream alive."

Not necessarily the case for all programs. I completed all prereqs at a CC and it has never come up in any of my MD interviews, suffice it to say that it was brought up as a positive aspect of my application. Do well on the MCAT and remove all doubt regarding the quality of your CC courses.

 

[lawyerdoc2b]

It looks like I'm leaning towards Pharm... However, I do want to keep my options open. I know MD schools want you to take the prereqs at a four-year school... what about DO schools? Does anyone know if DO schools emphasize taking the prereqs at a four-year school? I'm currently taking my prereqs for Pharm at Daytona State, which is basically a glorified CC, and I'm just trying to determine if I should transfer to another institution to "keep the dream alive."

After being a lawyer for 20 years, I took all my science prerequisites at a community college in Jacksonville, FL. I have been accepted at three medical schools and start in August 2010. Community College didn't hurt me.

 

[Sainttpk]

After being a lawyer for 20 years, I took all my science prerequisites at a community college in Jacksonville, FL. I have been accepted at three medical schools and start in August 2010. Community College didn't hurt me.

Ya you know the funny thing is I hear so many people on this board tell others not to go to a C.C. But I find that if you ace your C.C. classes and have a good MCAT score and compelling background it won't hurt your chances much.

Don't buy all the hype on this board. Alot of it is BS.

 

[riverjib]

That's great! My fiance is graduating from a PA program, and he's interested primarily in surgery, but also in emergency medicine. He actually worked as an EMT for years while in college and even before he decided to apply to medical school. He never even considered medical school, despite his A's in all the traditional BCPM courses...it wasn't for him.

I'm just curious--why are you posting in a pre-med forum? Did you decide to return to school, or are you just interested in what pre-meds have to say these days?

really depends on the facility. I work at level 1, 2, and 4(rural) depratments which all use pa's(yes, I work too much...). at the level 1 and 2 ctrs there are in house trauma teams with pa's on them who have significant roles including central line placement, chest tubes, fast exams, etc and they are often the first person to see the pt. and start the workup before the attendings arrive.
at my rural job I see whatever comes in the door.

a 2.7 will not cut it anywhere for getting into pa school. many programs have 1000 applications for 200 interviews for 30 spots. at my local program the avg student accepted this yr had a 3.5 gpa and > 8000 hrs of prior health care experience in addition to volunteering and community service. the min. cutoff to even get offered an interview is 4000 hrs.
several folks who did not get into the pa program did get into the md program at the same school.

I know many pa's in their 50's and 60's. they are all doing well financially, have no debt, drive nice cars and live in nice homes. not a bad life overall.