strong clinical schools

[accidental]

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I am narrowing my list of schools to apply to and I have absolutely no desire for research or to attend a school that favors research. I am more concerned with getting a very strong clinical education and perhaps go on to specialize. With that in mind, what schools should I not bother applying to and what schools should I consider?

Thanks!

 

[DDSdude]

OU is a great clinical school. They even say if you want to do research than look somewhere else. I have been impressed with my experience researching their school for the last three years. Their clinical requirements are some of the highest out there. According to what I heard from other dentists who went to other schools and know about OU's requirements. I really don't have another school to guage it against as far as hard numbers but I can find out OU's numbers for clinical requirements (extractions, dentures, etc) and we can compare to other schools. Just let me know. That would give you a pretty good bench mark.

My two cents.

 

[vishal_k32801]

UOP is the best in the West!UOP is the best in the west!

 

[Thaxil]

Generally schools situated in depress areas like Detroit, and Loma Linda (Inland Empire) will have plenty of people willing to get work done by students. I only visited two schools but hear of many others that have great clinical education. LLU is the best clinical school in Cal, and UDM also a very good clinical school. I heard Boston, NYU, UCSF, and Temple are also good clinical schools.

 

[thisisit]

Research? what's that?

 

[SpringHaze]

UMaryland! C'mon it's Baltimore and in 2 years they'll have one of the most up to date,newest building/clinics in the states. I've heard really great things, and if nothing else, I'll be there for the next four years!

 

[Brand]

What would you call a "research school" ?

If by research school you mean a school that has a main focus on research and a lesser focus on clinic, there is no such thing.

All schools in the country has clinical skills as their main focus. Some give the the opportunity to do research, while other don't.

Also, if you want to specialize and do zero research, make sure you are at the top of your class, because everyone else who applies will have there resume padded with research.

 

[gryffindor]

Originally posted by Brand
What would you call a "research school" ?

If by research school you mean a school that has a main focus on research and a lesser focus on clinic, there is no such thing.

How about this? Last year my classmates & I attended a research competition where it was mostly northeast dental schools and mostly junior and senior dental students. Like every dental student get-together, we were all complaining about our clinical requirements and talking about when each school allows time for student research. The guy from Harvard says "Well, sometimes I have to cancel my patient to go and finish my research experiment." We just stood there in shocked silence, because at our school (and probably most), if you cancel your patient to go do research, you will fail clinic. Of course, this guy also won the competition, go figure...

I think besides Harvard, no other school will force you to do research to graduate. (NOTE: I'm not entirely sure that research is required at Harvard). Even if the school does strong research, the students who choose to do research projects do so on their own. The majority of graduates don't go anywhere near a research lab in their four years.

Other good clinical schools - I'd put my school, Buffalo, on that list. That is if you can put up with the weather here for 4 years.

DDSdude - OU? Is that OSU (Ohio) or OHSU (Oregon)? Or some other school I'm missing?

 

[accidental]

It was just a simple question.........a school where I'm going to get a lot of clinical experience........I never used the phrase 'research school'. So am I to assume that no matter where I go I'm going to get the same amount of clinical experience? I don't think so.

 

[accidental]

Originally posted by SpringHaze
UMaryland! C'mon it's Baltimore and in 2 years they'll have one of the most up to date,newest building/clinics in the states. I've heard really great things, and if nothing else, I'll be there for the next four years!

Yes, Maryland is at the top of my list.

 

[init4damoney]

Originally posted by Thaxil
Generally schools situated in depress areas like Detroit, and Loma Linda (Inland Empire) will have plenty of people willing to get work done by students. I only visited two schools but hear of many others that have great clinical education. LLU is the best clinical school in Cal, and UDM also a very good clinical school. I heard Boston, NYU, UCSF, and Temple are also good clinical schools.

I'm not sure if UCSF is strong clinically, but I do know that they are big on research. If you're not interested in research, don't bother applying. The only attraction to this school I have is the cost. But being that there is so much competition in California I'll most likely end up in a private school. Loma Linda here I come!!

 

[UBTom]

to the original poster:

The schools that offer the most clinical experience would obviously be the ones in large cities-- Large cities means lots of patients for the school. Those would be a good starting point for you to look at.

I'm sure there are schools that offer comparable experience, but for starters I think NYU should be near the top of the list when it comes to clinical experience:

- You start comprehensive care clinic in mid-2nd year. Not just doing prophies, but EVERYTHING including operative, endo, perio, fixed, removable, etc. It requires you to take care of a group of patients assigned to you exclusively in 2nd year from start to finish, from making the initial comp exam to developing the treatment plan to finishing everything required to placing the patient in the recall pool once the TX plan is complete.

- 250,000 active comp-care patient pool. You will be hard pressed to find another school with such a HUGE patient pool. I don't believe in "exclusive" patient pools that makes it difficult for someone to get in-- I like huge patient pools because it means you will see some diseases and conditions which would be rare elsewhere.

- A huge patient pool also means there will be more patients who can afford the more expensive procedures such as crowns and bridges. These things ain't cheap-- A basic no-frills FCC 3-unit bridge will cost a dental school patient upwards of $750. So a bigger patient pool means there might be more people who can afford it. Chances are very good at NYU that you will get patients assigned to you who are willing to pay out of the wazoo for Ivoclar Empress bridges supported by implants, for example.

- Great rotations at nearby NYC hospitals (which by nature are some of the busiest in the country and you will see stuff that is rare at most other schools). All right there without having to travel very far.

- NYC has a HUGE concentration of GPR programs. If you are interested in furthering your clinical experience after dental school in treating VERY medically-complex patients, NYC is a good place to be.

I also agree with my classmate Griffin that Buffalo is also very clinic-oriented. We start comp care Spring of 2nd year as well.

HTH.

 

[DcS]

Since I am posting after Tom, I will put my plug in for UNC and try to one-up him 😀

At UNC, you will enter the clinics for Comprehensive Care earlier than anywhere else I have heard (fall 2nd year).

Summer 1st Year: You get your very own patients, 1 on 1, who are in for recall to perform general prophies.

Fall 2nd Year: You will start getting patients that you are responsible for until you graduate. Now, you can perform any necessary injection, and complete all operative Comprehensive Care. In addition, I have also seen a pediatric patient whom I am also responsible for until I graduate. That included a case presentation to both the Ortho and Pedo depts. I'm not sure there is any school out there that has students have their own pedo patients this early. At this point, I now have 5 patients in my "family of patients" that I must care for at least 1 time per month until I graduate.

Spring 2nd Year: You get to add fixed pros to your resume, I will be starting work for a Procera on #8 next week that I am quite excited about 😎

The clinics are never short of patients, it is very hard to get into the system. Once patients are admitted, if they fail to come to appointments, they are booted very quickly because of such high demand. I too wanted to enter a school that would allow me to be very confident clinically, and have been very happy with UNC.

In addition, during your 3rd and 4th year at UNC, you must complete 2 externships that range in 4-6 weeks long. You have a huge range of location choices, ranging from Australia, many parts of Europe, and all over the US.

As far as the whole research thing goes, a school doesn't only have to be a research school or a clinical school. UNC is ranked 3rd I think in NIH research funding, but as I explained above, places heavy emphasis on the clinics. Research is abundant in you want it, but only if you want it do you have to participate.

 

[DcS]

How's the weather up in Buffalo Tom, I had a friend up there, you guys getting swamped by the lake-effect?

 

[UBTom]

Hey DcS,

You want to know something funny? Last month, NYC got HAMMERED with 2 ft. of snow. We got NOTHING in Buffalo so far except a dusting over Christmas. Usually it's the other way around!

Right now I just got back to Buffalo from NYC (8-hour drive) and it's raining here. RAIN?!? In January! In Buffalo!!

It must be that damn Global Warming or El Nino or some damn thing.. 😀

 

[gryffindor]

Geez DcS. With your posts in this thread and the "Case vs. UNC" thread, I'm having a little UNC envy. I think I'm adding it along with UConn & Stonybrook to the "List of places I wish I had applied back in the day"

Well, we had a white Christmas in Buffalo - much to the delight of the New Yorkers on NYC to Buffalo flight on the 25th (was in NYC interviewing) and much to my dismay b/c it meant I would have to clean my steps & sidewalk. But since the 25th, it all melted and we actually had very nice weather (relatively speaking) for the break - this rain tonight is random, but better than snow.

Tom, give our school a little more credit. I mean NYU is in the best part of the state (stupid SUNY system, what where they thinking building 2 dental schools BOTH in the middle of nowhere), but I think we do quite a bit of dentistry up here. Our patient assignment system isn't perfect, and sometimes it feels like we attend 2 different dental schools with the first floor versus second floor. But I walk around the first floor in amazement sometimes when I see the fixed cases our classmates are doing. And I feel like they treat the seniors better than the juniors when it comes to case assignment b/c they want us to graduate and get out of here.

But accidental, you can't go wrong with Baltimore as a good clinical choice, espcially with the new dental school building. They also do research at Baltimore, I met students at the research meetings from Baltimore but I assure you no one will make you go near a research lab in your 4 years if you don't want to.

 

[tinker bell]

I have to add UCSF to the list. Not because I go there, but because it has all the good stats.

1. UCSF ranks number 2 in the state of California regarding to the patients number. Only second to Loma Linda.

2. Comprehensive Care starts in the Fall of first year. Students go to homeless clinic to screen patients. We also do night clinic right at the start. It's a bit messy with the busy schedule. But it's fun, and lots of experience.

3. UCSF has the most sattelite clinics compare to other CA dental schools. 11 clinics outside of the school main clinic. And this number is growing. We have opportunity to go to these clinics and do some site observation if we want to.

4. UCSF has all specialty departments. So, if specialize is your calling, you will get the opportunity to go and check it out.

5. Last year, my friend, who was a D2, one week before NDBE1 day, he was complaining that he still has to do root canal and stick around the clinic too long because he has too many patients To me, this means that this is a good sign. Because the more practice, the better. And doing root canal in second year? It can only get better than this at Temple.

6. The list goes on, but I'm not going to list them. Because I don't want people to think that I'm bragging.

7. Research is not a required here. Eventhough we are number one in NIH research funded dental school, students are not required to do it. Who choose to do so, do it at their own will in the summer between first and second year, and get funded as well.

We have fun in the fog. And we get everything for a very cheap price.....

 

[UBTom]

Tink,

Clarification. When you say Comprehensive Care Clinic for UCSF starts in the fall of first year, are we talking about this?

- You get assigned a group of patients that you must manage and provide dental care for, exactly as if you are the patient's general dentist.

- You must do everything, including the initial exam, h&p, tx plan, doing the work on the tx plan (including operative, fixed, removable, endo, perio, exodontia, i.e., you working just like a real general dentist) and putting the patient into the recall pool once you have completed all the work on the tx plan.

Anything short of those criteria above would NOT be comprehensive care. The question is, did UCSF students actually do all that right after starting freshman year in the fall?? I admit I'm a bit skeptical.

I think a lot of guys here are not clear on what "comprehensive care" means... Being allowed to do only prophies, screenings or operative is not comprehensive.

Most schools seem to phase the student into clinic gradually, starting with just prophy or screenings then on to operative before allowing them to provide comprehensive care in either 2nd or 3rd year, by which time the student would have learned enough to be able to also do endo, fixed, removable, etc.

 

[accidental]

Thanks for all of the info. This helps out a lot! Keep it coming.

 

[tinker bell]

Tom,

Sorry about the confusion. To clarify, our comp. care course covers all this:

1. X-ray rotation.
2. Sim lab
3. Clinic on thursday night. They ease us in with oral exam, probing (ouch), prophy, take impression, pour cast, check for caries, etc.....


Of course, within the course of 2.5 months, we can't be mastered all the stuff that you listed. But I think our comp. care class in the fall is good enough for rookies. We are in much better shape than other schools (I'm not gonna list, but you guys who do enough research will know)

I'm happy with clinical exposure that I have so far. Very worth the money (compare how little I paid).

This is a 3 units course. However, next year, UCSF will increase clinical exposure, by increase the comp care class to a 9 units course. That will be 3 times of what I have. The incoming class will spend almost 2 days/wk doing all clinical. That schedule I'm sure will be applauded by students who are fond of clinical aspect.
So, I encourage all of you predents to check out your options carefully if you have a choice.