Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012

[scarshapedstar]

And yes, when people loan you money at interest below inflation, they are effectively paying you. That's why the 'government is like a household' talking point ought to instantly discredit anyone who uses it.

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[xiphoid2010]

Why borrow it? Just mint one ten-trillion dollar coin.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2011/07/so-crazy-it-just-might-work

But yes, when people loan you money at interest below inflation, they are effectively paying you. That's why the 'government is like a household' taking point ought to instantly discredit anyone who uses it.

Yeah, I wonder why all the countries haven't done it already when it's that easy to wipe out debt.

 

[pezdispenser]

Am I a republican in this hypothetical situation? If I am then yes, I would take it and then give a tax cut to warren buffet. then complain about how high the debt is.

Haha, don't bring politics into it. But the interest rates I quoted are real Treasury note and bond rates. Now who doesn't like cheap loans?

 

[awval999]

Haha, don't bring politics into it. But the interest rates I quoted are real Treasury note and bond rates. Now who doesn't like cheap loans?

Lets say Ferrari offers you 0% interest on a new roadster. I mean, yeah, why not, FREE MONEY, amirite? They are effectively paying me. Idiots I tell you.

Just look at it from the perspective of housing. Now you can get a house for $150K that used to sell for $300K. Yeah, we have $100K in loans but its the same thing.

The powers that be want us to be in debt. Debt = slavery. Remember that. The boss loves when you go mortgage a $300K house and a $50K BMW. Looks like you won't be leaving anytime soon. Why wouldn't you want a generation of wage slaves that accept any job that is offered. Gotta pay those debts. Mmmmm yeah. The wage market would be a lot different if everyone was debt free and weren't living paycheck to paycheck to pay for all their mortgaged toys. I bet you working conditions would be better, wages better, but let me tell you, the powers that be don't want that. If we are slaves to our debt all the better. They have us right were they like it.

 

[awval999]

And yes, when people loan you money at interest below inflation, they are effectively paying you. That's why the 'government is like a household' talking point ought to instantly discredit anyone who uses it.

Gotta buy a house right now amirite? Interest rates so low. Go into more debt, ya hear me? Gotta have that debt shackle.

 

[maverick145]

If I may ask for a source for the 20% time I would appreciate it.

Look, the old-fogies don't want to forgive our student loans. That's all there is to it. There are more of them than of us. Sure maybe 30 years from now. But not now. The whole 15% disposable income IBR thing forgiven after 25 years is the best that's gonna happen. And no, our legislature reacts to pressure from the media about things like transvaginal ultrasound before abortions and gay marriage. I would put student loans very far down the list.

This is a National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys report and they cite the number.

http://nacba.org/Portals/0/Documents/Student Loan Debt/020712 NACBA student loan debt report.pdf


I realize the media will never talk about this issue, but I don't think its insignificant. 20% of federal borrowers defaulting, that is a major problem. This is also a major issue in the occupy protests. As far as issues that the media does not talk about, look at health care reform. This was not something the media cared about, but there was so much grass roots pressure that the president did something about it. Did it turn out ideal, no. But it shows grass roots movements can get the government to act.

And they aren't talking about forgiving everyone debt, its just a payment program where you pay 10% of discretionary income for 10 years and its forgiven.

 

[awval999]

"THEY" will never forgive our loans. They want us to be complacent debt slaves. That's all there is to it.

 

[pezdispenser]

Let's follow your logic to its conclusion.

Let's just borrow $10T then. Pay off everyone's mortgage, student loans and credit cards. 1% interest and all. That will help the economy.

My point was don't just look at the size of the budget deficit. Yeah, it's huge, but realize that the government is also getting really low interest rates right now. There is of course a limit, like the self-imposed debt ceiling, as well as market forces, credit rating, fear of inflation, etc, that will determine the rate and amount they can borrow, so everything has to be kept within reason.

It's probably quite complicated to run the country and the economy, so my attitude is just let them do their job Just like I don't want customers debating what's the fastest/cheapest way to get them their pills, or threatening to get me kicked out either...

 

[confettiflyer]

I also love that confetti and myself find each other in these threads. I heart you confetti. Love the debates.

The fact is, when confetti knows this bill is stupid, and can't pass, we should just lock the thread.

hahaha, i know right...anything money or government related, I'm there. Like the random ambulance chaser commercials that come on during daytime TV.

Man, I go to dinner and have some coffee and this thread blows up. Where the hell were you guys this afternoon? sheesh.

Yeah, the bill won't pass (as-is, at least), it'll die a quiet death. But hey, it would be great if it passed, I'll take some of my forgiven loans and buy awval999 some nice liquor. I think this is an upgrade from the beer I usually offer, which is what you'll get if at least PSLF 10 years survives. But 5? hey, let's spring for the good stuff

 

[maverick145]

Yeah, I wonder why all the countries haven't done it already when it's that easy to wipe out debt.

Thats exactly the problem that the members of the Eurozone have. If the ones that are in trouble could print their own money to pay their debt they would, but they cant.

If you cant borrow money at low rates, that is actually how you pay your debt if you are a country that can print its own money. Greece cannot.

 

[maverick145]

And yes, when people loan you money at interest below inflation, they are effectively paying you. That's why the 'government is like a household' talking point ought to instantly discredit anyone who uses it.

Among other reasons.

 

[pezdispenser]

Lets say Ferrari offers you 0% interest on a new roadster. I mean, yeah, why not, FREE MONEY, amirite? They are effectively paying me. Idiots I tell you.

No, have you forgotten the often spoken concept of good debt/bad debt? Borrowing to stimulate the economy is supposed to be good debt. The economy will increase in value and pay a dividend (taxes). Cars do not increase in value and do not earn you money, so they are bad debt even with 0% interest. But the government still has to be reasonable with its spending and borrowing, because if they spend on the wrong things it can become bad debt too.

 

[maverick145]

My point was don't just look at the size of the budget deficit. Yeah, it's huge, but realize that the government is also getting really low interest rates right now. There is of course a limit, like the self-imposed debt ceiling, as well as market forces, credit rating, fear of inflation, etc, that will determine the rate and amount they can borrow, so everything has to be kept within reason.

It's probably quite complicated to run the country and the economy, so my attitude is just let them do their job Just like I don't want customers debating what's the fastest/cheapest way to get them their pills, or threatening to get me kicked out either...

And its also important to note that debt from Word War 2 as a percentage of GDP was higher then it is now. And we never repaid that debt, our economy just grew so much that the debt became insignificant. Thats why all this talk about the sudden debt crisis (which the Bush administration ran up so we could have the debate we are having now) is misplaced because the real crisis is the anemic economy and unemployment. There needs to be an urgent response to those issues first, then work on the debt once they are fixed. Our main goal needs to be growing the economy.

 

[maverick145]

Lets say Ferrari offers you 0% interest on a new roadster. I mean, yeah, why not, FREE MONEY, amirite? They are effectively paying me. Idiots I tell you.

Just look at it from the perspective of housing. Now you can get a house for $150K that used to sell for $300K. Yeah, we have $100K in loans but its the same thing.

The powers that be want us to be in debt. Debt = slavery. Remember that. The boss loves when you go mortgage a $300K house and a $50K BMW. Looks like you won't be leaving anytime soon. Why wouldn't you want a generation of wage slaves that accept any job that is offered. Gotta pay those debts. Mmmmm yeah. The wage market would be a lot different if everyone was debt free and weren't living paycheck to paycheck to pay for all their mortgaged toys. I bet you working conditions would be better, wages better, but let me tell you, the powers that be don't want that. If we are slaves to our debt all the better. They have us right were they like it.

I totally agree. That is why we all need to wake up and realize what is going on so we can change it. Cause this is BS.

 

[maverick145]

Gotta buy a house right now amirite? Interest rates so low. Go into more debt, ya hear me? Gotta have that debt shackle.

A house is only a debt shackle if you buy it for more then its worth.

 

[dxb8307]

Lets say Ferrari offers you 0% interest on a new roadster. I mean, yeah, why not, FREE MONEY, amirite? They are effectively paying me. Idiots I tell you.

Just look at it from the perspective of housing. Now you can get a house for $150K that used to sell for $300K. Yeah, we have $100K in loans but its the same thing.

The powers that be want us to be in debt. Debt = slavery. Remember that. The boss loves when you go mortgage a $300K house and a $50K BMW. Looks like you won't be leaving anytime soon. Why wouldn't you want a generation of wage slaves that accept any job that is offered. Gotta pay those debts. Mmmmm yeah. The wage market would be a lot different if everyone was debt free and weren't living paycheck to paycheck to pay for all their mortgaged toys. I bet you working conditions would be better, wages better, but let me tell you, the powers that be don't want that. If we are slaves to our debt all the better. They have us right were they like it.

Couldn't agree more

 

[scarshapedstar]

A house is only a debt shackle if you buy it for more then its worth.

Michael Jordan offered me his mansion in exchange for a $5 debt to be paid off over the next year. I said hell no I won't be your slave! Give that mansion to somebody with less economic sense than I!

Besides, I only pay with gold coins and even Pieces of Eight are worth more than $5.

 

[Rx MPLS]

I believe for future loans, there's a cap at about 50k.

Source? I've never heard of this.

 

[maverick145]

Source? I've never heard of this.

I think he is referring to the bill we are talking about. It would limit how much could be part of the program.

 

[Shnurek]

In 1979 at Michigan state university, four years cost $9176 in 2012 dollars. The cost is now almost 50 thousand. In California, public colleges were practically free, now tuition at the UC schools is over 10000 a year. These increases are because of federal and state cuts to higher education funding. So the cost of an education has just been shifted from tax payers (which group of tax payers has gotten the majority of tax cuts since the 70's?) to the students. So the idea that the federal government woudl be forgiving student loans is similar to how higher education has been funded in the past, the goverment subsidizes the cost. Why do they subsidize the cost? It benefits the entire economy as a whole. When MSU trains an engineer and that person goes to work at Ford, Ford is using that persons education for free. If Ford has access to highly qualified people educated at public universities, this is going to allow them to thrive in the world economy and will improve our economy. Every person in this coutnry benefits from a strong economy.

There also is the point that one of the biggest causes of the recession we are in (recession is technically over) is the fact that the middle class has sooooooo much debt and because of it they spend less. Relieving debt of the middle class is going to help the economy, I think we can all agree on that.

I mean when you drive on the roads that my tax dollars paid to build (and there are a million other examples of services we all use that our tax dollars paid for, ones that we dont even realize are there) I wont call you a socialist. There are just certain services that the goverment should provide that are going to benefit the coutnry as a whole. One of them is higher education. I dont want the goverment to take over caterpillar and start building bull dozers, I just want the goverment to provide the services that a healthy society requires.

Here is the definition of socialism "any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods." Does having the federal goverment relieve student loan debt sound like that?

Lets not forget, the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars will likely reach 4.4 TRILLION. We can find the money for that no problem but we cant afford to educate our own citizens? Its just ridiculous

Sure I agree with you. The wars were ridiculous and exactly what Bin Laden wanted. In the Al Qaeda handbook it stated that the whole purpose of the 9/11 attack was to provoke the West into a prolonged war of attrition. Bush and his cronies fell right into the trap and so did most Americans.

But back to the point of the debt. I worked hard and I live at home to not have any debt thus far. Why should numbskulls with no financial sense, blowing money everywhere get their debt disbursed?

Subsidize tuition. Do not subsidize people's debts. Nobody put a gun to their heads and stated they have to go to school.

Fix the disease not the symptoms. That is all.

 

[maverick145]

Sure I agree with you. The wars were ridiculous and exactly what Bin Laden wanted. In the Al Qaeda handbook it stated that the whole purpose of the 9/11 attack was to provoke the West into a prolonged war of attrition. Bush and his cronies fell right into the trap and so did most Americans.

But back to the point of the debt. I worked hard and I live at home to not have any debt thus far. Why should numbskulls with no financial sense, blowing money everywhere get their debt disbursed?

Subsidize tuition. Do not subsidize people's debts. Nobody put a gun to their heads and stated they have to go to school.

Fix the disease not the symptoms. That is all.

Who says that students who borrow money for school are numbskulls with no financial sense. You would be a numbskull if you decided not to go to school simply because you did not want a loan (and im not talking about going to university of phoenix, im talking about state schools). And ya nobody forced them to go to school, but they didnt want to live a life of poverty so of course they decided to go. What would you expect them to do. It doesnt change the fact that we are all getting ripped off and something should be done about it. The disease is not over borrowing by students, its that college is just too expensive. So easing the debt burden would fix the disease (along with lowering college costs).

 

[scoobygrl79]

Great to see some very critical points being discussed here. However, I feel compelled to add my humble two cents:

Unfortunately, this particular bill won't pass... BUTT, and I say BUTT with two TT's because this issue is huger than JLO's ass (she has the largest in hollywood I believe).

I believe THIS young lady, Kim K, holds the title

End of scoob's mind provoking yet significant contribution. Carry on!

 

[maverick145]

 

[KUMoose]

Subsidize tuition. Do not subsidize people's debts. Nobody put a gun to their heads and stated they have to go to school.

Fix the disease not the symptoms. That is all.

You realize the future is in higher education. We actually want people to go into math/engineering/science based degree fields, because as long as our manufacturing costs have to adjust to the US cost of living, our best source to remain competitive is to out-think everyone else. Santorum-ites are wrong on this count, and the ignorance could actually cause a Rome-esque collapse.

So yes, we want to "metaphorically" hold a gun to people's heads.

Secondly, the only difference in subsidizing tuition AND subsidizing properly run student loans (that is student loans used for room/board/tuition/books/fees) is timing. Since students change majors a lot and not ever major should be subsidized to the same extint, doing it afterwards actually would provide a carrot on those cold lonely nights when you have to study for DifEQ, Engineering Metallergy, Gross Anatomy (solo and for retention, no playing with your junk during the GU phase and saying you're learning), etc.

I actually weep for the future with KK/LL/Teen Mom as the role model children pick. Such a vapid waste of O2-->CO2 conversion.

 

[confettiflyer]

Why should numbskulls with no financial sense, blowing money everywhere get their debt disbursed?

Haha, so who's the numbskull (haven't heard that since TMNT days, btw)...the guy who stayed at home and lived the virtuous life, or the guy who took out $200k and blew half of it on lavish living, gambling, booze, and women, then got most of his debts discharged?

If I could go back to the housing boom I would have HELOC'd my way to a $300k line of credit, paid for pharmacy school, strategically walk away, and lead a fairly hedonistic lifestyle for a while until I started working.

I am a walking moral hazard, watch out.

 

[sfwusc]

Loan Forgiveness for Pharmacist exist right now...

It is call the US Army I think it is up to $120K. Sign up and watch the debt go away.

Oh wait....we want something for nothing. We don't want to work for it.

 

[confettiflyer]

Loan Forgiveness for Pharmacist exist right now...

It is call the US Army I think it is up to $120K. Sign up and watch the debt go away.

Oh wait....we want something for nothing. We don't want to work for it.

hey lobbying congress = working

 

[Shnurek]

You would be a numbskull if you decided not to go to school simply because you did not want a loan (and im not talking about going to university of phoenix, im talking about state schools). And ya nobody forced them to go to school, but they didnt want to live a life of poverty so of course they decided to go. What would you expect them to do.

No you can go to work in the financial sector or actually producing things for America making around $50,000. Now physical labor jobs are in demand so wages have gone up quite considerably. People with high school educations are earning around $75,000 by being electricians for example because people just want to sit on their butts in colleges. Its all supply and demand people. We have too many people majoring in bullsh*t majors such as the arts and english that do not really benefit society to the extent that an engineer or a doctor would. And then they wonder why they can't pay off their 100k debts.

Anyways in relation to the healthcare sector I think that tuition should be way more subsidized and I think tuition will go down in a few years because this is just a huge bubble that formed that I don't think is sustainable. Smart people are realizing that going to school currently if you do not have the means is not really the guarantee to success that it once was. Once you become a debt slave it does not matter if you have a JD or an MD or whatever. You will have that cloud above your head for many decades even.

Haha, so who's the numbskull (haven't heard that since TMNT days, btw)...the guy who stayed at home and lived the virtuous life, or the guy who took out $200k and blew half of it on lavish living, gambling, booze, and women, then got most of his debts discharged?

Even if this passes its not a free $200k. You still have to be a slave to the government in some other form. But ya that person that got their debt disbursed would be more lucky and not necessary more intelligent unless they directly influenced the political changes.

 

[confettiflyer]

"A fool and his money are soon parted."

Except we've turned upside down the idea of what it means to be a fool.

 

[Rx MPLS]

Who says that students who borrow money for school are numbskulls with no financial sense. You would be a numbskull if you decided not to go to school simply because you did not want a loan (and im not talking about going to university of phoenix, im talking about state schools). And ya nobody forced them to go to school, but they didnt want to live a life of poverty so of course they decided to go. What would you expect them to do. It doesnt change the fact that we are all getting ripped off and something should be done about it. The disease is not over borrowing by students, its that college is just too expensive. So easing the debt burden would fix the disease (along with lowering college costs).

A quick info tidbit: around 10% of the US's students attend for-profit schools like the University of Phoenix, but these places are responsible for about half of the student defaults.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/story/2011-10-18/student-loans-for-profit-college/50819470/1

I once looked up the schools with the most students in the US, and I remember the University of Phoenix was either #1, or very close to it. Just some food for thought. Not all students are numbskulls, but some might be very gullible and possibly financially illiterate.

 

[scarshapedstar]

Yep.

There was a recent attempt to require for-profit colleges to demonstrate that their graduates' degrees are worth the packets they're emailed on, and it was lobbied to death.

 

[GustavH]

In 1979 at Michigan state university, four years cost $9176 in 2012 dollars. The cost is now almost 50 thousand. In California, public colleges were practically free, now tuition at the UC schools is over 10000 a year. These increases are because of federal and state cuts to higher education funding. So the cost of an education has just been shifted from tax payers (which group of tax payers has gotten the majority of tax cuts since the 70's?) to the students. So the idea that the federal government woudl be forgiving student loans is similar to how higher education has been funded in the past, the goverment subsidizes the cost. Why do they subsidize the cost? It benefits the entire economy as a whole. When MSU trains an engineer and that person goes to work at Ford, Ford is using that persons education for free. If Ford has access to highly qualified people educated at public universities, this is going to allow them to thrive in the world economy and will improve our economy. Every person in this coutnry benefits from a strong economy.

There also is the point that one of the biggest causes of the recession we are in (recession is technically over) is the fact that the middle class has sooooooo much debt and because of it they spend less. Relieving debt of the middle class is going to help the economy, I think we can all agree on that.

I mean when you drive on the roads that my tax dollars paid to build (and there are a million other examples of services we all use that our tax dollars paid for, ones that we dont even realize are there) I wont call you a socialist. There are just certain services that the goverment should provide that are going to benefit the coutnry as a whole. One of them is higher education. I dont want the goverment to take over caterpillar and start building bull dozers, I just want the goverment to provide the services that a healthy society requires.

Here is the definition of socialism "any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods." Does having the federal goverment relieve student loan debt sound like that?

Lets not forget, the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars will likely reach 4.4 TRILLION. We can find the money for that no problem but we cant afford to educate our own citizens? Its just ridiculous

 

[maverick145]

No you can go to work in the financial sector or actually producing things for America making around $50,000. Now physical labor jobs are in demand so wages have gone up quite considerably. People with high school educations are earning around $75,000 by being electricians for example because people just want to sit on their butts in colleges. Its all supply and demand people. We have too many people majoring in bullsh*t majors such as the arts and english that do not really benefit society to the extent that an engineer or a doctor would. And then they wonder why they can't pay off their 100k debts.

Anyways in relation to the healthcare sector I think that tuition should be way more subsidized and I think tuition will go down in a few years because this is just a huge bubble that formed that I don't think is sustainable. Smart people are realizing that going to school currently if you do not have the means is not really the guarantee to success that it once was. Once you become a debt slave it does not matter if you have a JD or an MD or whatever. You will have that cloud above your head for many decades even.



Even if this passes its not a free $200k. You still have to be a slave to the government in some other form. But ya that person that got their debt disbursed would be more lucky and not necessary more intelligent unless they directly influenced the political changes.

Median salary of a full time high school graduate is 34 thousand. Median for a full time college grad is 57 thousand. So the idea that it is easy to go out with a high school degree and start making 50 or 75 thousand is not based in reality. Also, what job can you get in the financial sector with a high school degree? Do they not have plenty of applicants with bachelor degrees? Why would they hire someone who didn't go to college.

 

[Rx MPLS]

Median salary of a full time high school graduate is 34 thousand. Median for a full time college grad is 57 thousand. So the idea that it is easy to go out with a high school degree and start making 50 or 75 thousand is not based in reality. Also, what job can you get in the financial sector with a high school degree? Do they not have plenty of applicants with bachelor degrees? Why would they hire someone who didn't go to college.

Correlation vs causation is always a good thing to consider. That's all I'm going to say about this...

 

[maverick145]

Yep.

There was a recent attempt to require for-profit colleges to demonstrate that their graduates' degrees are worth the packets they're emailed on, and it was lobbied to death.

Ya one example from the report on those schools, one student had paid 95 thousand for a degree in gaming design or something like that. The school reported that he had found a job in the industry. The only problem was the job he found was working in the electronics department at Walmart.

The online schools used to be ineligible for federal student aid until the law was changed. The law was from the 90's I think, and it required that they have at least 50 percent of students attending a campus to be eligible for the aid. This was to prevent scams from popping up where they would send you videotapes in the mail and call it a college.

 

[Shnurek]

Median salary of a full time high school graduate is 34 thousand. Median for a full time college grad is 57 thousand. So the idea that it is easy to go out with a high school degree and start making 50 or 75 thousand is not based in reality. Also, what job can you get in the financial sector with a high school degree? Do they not have plenty of applicants with bachelor degrees? Why would they hire someone who didn't go to college.

I have a friend that makes 50k in a finance company and he has an associates. Yes, finance is competitive too and you will not make more than like 50-60 without a college degree unless you work your way up somehow.

I know this previous example is anecdotal but the point I'm trying to make is that school is no longer worth it for EVERYONE. Tuition has rose almost 10x over the past 10-15 years or so. If you want an in demand job now. Become a petroleum engineer. Sure it takes 5 years to get an engineering bachelors usually but they are basically guaranteed $100,000 starting just like Pharmacy. Sometimes I wish they had engineering at my university. But then again I went into my field to own my own practice one day, set my own hours and call the shots. Petroleum engineering is probably more exciting work too if you don't mind relocating to areas like Texas, Canada, Gulf of Mexico, Alaska, Middle East etc.

 

[scarshapedstar]

Yeah I have a friend who's a PetE, makes six figures and works six months a year.

Also, if you write six too many times, it looks weird.

 

[Rx MPLS]

Yeah I have a friend who's a PetE, makes six figures and works six months a year.

Also, if you write six too many times, it looks weird.

You can do this fishing in Alaska, too. No kidding. No education required there...

 

[npage148]

You can do this fishing in Alaska, too. No kidding. No education required there...

I think it's more like "Required: No education"

 

[Rx MPLS]

I think it's more like "Required: No education"

You would be surprised. Lots of folks fishing have four year degrees. Of course, some do not, as well. I'm pretty sure heavy drinking is mandatory, however.

 

[Shnurek]

http://www.moneycrashers.com/six-figure-income-jobs-without-having-a-degree/

$120 for 5 minute pipe replacement? Sounds good to me I'd rather do it myself though. Its easy as hell, just turn off the source of water, get a heavy wrench to take out the pipe and a new pipe costs like $5-$15 and just screw it in. But of course plumbers take advantage of those people that can't be bothered to get their hands dirty aka sissies

 

[Kansas Pharmer]

I agree with some of the other posters about only having a HS diploma and making >100k a year. Usually this is an electician or a plumber example. But, they have to do a minimum of a 4 year apprenticeship and pass the licensing test. After you get a journeymans license, the hard part is knowing all the different codes in all the different places you work. Also, you are required to belong to the International Brotherhood even if you work for yourself. So, you cannot undercut rates to draw more business; you have to follow the established billing guidelines.

I am in no way saying that they have it hard, I am just pointing out that they have to do quite a bit of "schooling" and follow a ton of regulations, just like we do. The big difference is you can easily be self-employed when licensed and you also draw pay while in your apprenticeship instead of paying tuition.

Just food for thought...

 

[maverick145]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/22/student-loan-interest-rate_n_1372506.html?ref=business

The Consumer Finance Protection Bureau just released a statement saying that student loans have become "too big to fail."

This is from their blog:
"Students borrowed $117 billion in just federal student loans last year. And students continue to borrow private student loans, which lack the income-based repayment and deferment options of federal student loans. If current trends continue, there will be consequences not just for young people, but for all of us."

 

[Billy Madison]

Oh ya the interest rate is way too high. Ask anyone who went to college in the 70's what the rate was, it was like 2% or something. We are all getting ripped off.

Whoa, I am not THAT old! LOL. I graduated in 2005 with a BS in Pharm Sci and my SL repayment rate is fixed at 1.68%.

I am agreeing with you, really. 6.8%( or whatever it is now), and UN-Subsidized, is ridiculous.

 

[bob1234]

I agree with some of the other posters about only having a HS diploma and making >100k a year. Usually this is an electician or a plumber example. But, they have to do a minimum of a 4 year apprenticeship and pass the licensing test. After you get a journeymans license, the hard part is knowing all the different codes in all the different places you work. Also, you are required to belong to the International Brotherhood even if you work for yourself. So, you cannot undercut rates to draw more business; you have to follow the established billing guidelines.

I am in no way saying that they have it hard, I am just pointing out that they have to do quite a bit of "schooling" and follow a ton of regulations, just like we do. The big difference is you can easily be self-employed when licensed and you also draw pay while in your apprenticeship instead of paying tuition.

Just food for thought...

I believe there are still a few states that allow individuals to study under lawyers/judges for some time (apprenticeship type work) and take the bar exam to prove their proficiency. Could the same not be instituted for medicine/pharmacy/dentistry? Isn't this how it was done before big education?

How about a 4-6 year apprenticeship program, working with a pharmacist/multiple pharmacists and studying for something similar to the NAPLEX. Leave the BOP's in place and allow them to oversee pharmacy apprentices who are soon to be practicing to make sure have adequate knowledge and are up to snuff. Goodbye $400,000 student loans.

 

[Beacon]

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[JoBreeze]

More government bailout paid by tax payers? Hey why don't they start credit card and car loan forgiveness while at it?

Let's just add a new federal tax that only hit people who actually pay their bills, and watch how long it takes before everyone default on their loans.

I hate the "bailout main street" garbage too. Tax payers will profit from TARP, but not sending people to the University of Phoenix unfortunately.