Students from states with high IS acceptance

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

ReneeM

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
May 25, 2016
Messages
59
Reaction score
50
I've seen suggestions of applying to 20-30 schools. Is that still the case for students from states like OK, NE, etc.? My pre-med advisor suggested I apply to only 6-8 this year, but that seems insanely low after seeing all these posts about people applying to 30 schools.

@GrapesofRath
 
Depends on your stats also.

But in general yes those states with 35+% type IS matriculation rates, your odds are likely defined by whether you get into your state school. For these states where only a handful of people matriculate OOS every year, often the ones that do so either go to top 20's, are URMs or have other unique circumstances that dont apply to most people. The people who go OOS in a state like Nebraska usually aren't the 3.6/31 type apps. If you can get into an OOS school in a state like that, the solid majority of the time you can get into your state school as well.
 
I'm ORM with 3.8-3.9/514
My ECs seem pretty average (except I have ~8,000 clinical experience and less than 100 hours research)
Would 4-6 reaches plus my state be reasonable?

Thank you!
 
If you can interview decently you should be fine with that. Depending on state might be worth adding a school or two from a bordering state. Only apply OOS to schools you know you would turn down your state school tuition for.
 
Last edited:
Your advisor is an idiot in a sea of advising idiots. Your state school has only so many seats and what if you don't get in? What if you decide that you like Chicago or Miami better than, say, Lincoln?

I suggest anywhere from 20-30, and recommend:


U VM

USF Morsani (maybe)

Duke (maybe)

Case (maybe)

Mayo (maybe)

Miami

St. Louis

Albany

Albert Einstein

Rochester

Rush (note: very service/experience oriented with a 150hr service requirement. Avg student has 800 hours of community service, and >1800 hours of health care exposure.)

Rosy Franklin

BU

MCW

Hofstra

NYMC

VCU

EVMS

Wake Forest

Jefferson

Temple

Drexel

Creighton

George Washington

Emory

USC/Keck

Tulane

Dartmouth

Loyola

Any new MD school. Skip Central MI and the three new FL schools. I can't recommend CNU.

Your state school(s).

Uniformed Services University/Hebert (just be aware of the military service commitment)

Any DO program

I've seen suggestions of applying to 20-30 schools. Is that still the case for students from states like OK, NE, etc.? My pre-med advisor suggested I apply to only 6-8 this year, but that seems insanely low after seeing all these posts about people applying to 30 schools.

@GrapesofRath
 
Are the Arizona schools another example of these types of schools where your chances are best defined by if you get into them as an AZ resident? Also if the aforementioned situation is accurate, and you stand a good chance of an acceptance as an AZ resident, is this the type of scenario where it is best to apply only to mostly reach schools since the discrepancy in IS/OOs tuition is 20k? @GrapesofRath

I don't have MSAR but will be purchasing it next summer when I apply, I was just curious about this situation particularly. Thanks!
 
I've gotten this question alot specifically towards me lately for some reason. Tis' the season I guess. Because of that I'll expand upon once and for all why it's illogical to apply lower tier OOS heavy with above avg stats in a state with a >35% IS matriculation

For the purposes of this discussion we'll use the example of NE and assume OP is an NE resident. But it holds true for all states like this. You can look at this table to see where your state stands. https://www.aamc.org/download/321466/data/factstablea5.pdf

Any state with a 35+% IS matriculation rate this holds true for. IMHO throw in Indiana, Mississippi, Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas and maybe even Michigan into this category(MI really depends on the quality of applicant).

1) You'll very likely get into your state school.

a) 3.6/28 is the average applicant stats in NE last year. SD on the MCAT 4.8
b) 3.7/30.4 is the average matriculant stats in NE last year. SD on the MCAT 3.3
c) Roughly around 40% of people who apply to U of Nebraska who are IS get accepted. Probably 30% of the pool you can throw out from the start as being non competitive(ie <26 MCAT as an ex).
d) The IS app/matriculant ratio for U of Nebraska is 2.9. For these lower tier OOS schools people on SDN freely recommend, it's usually 70+ OOS apps/matriculant. For the NYMC, Drexel types, it's 90+. That's a 25-30X difference.

Take away: You are very likely to get into your state school. IF you don't it likely means something went really wrong in the interview or you have a red flag. And if you do, Rush's and NYMC's of the world where your odds based off numbers alone are roughly 20X worse are rather unlikely to bail you out if that flaw is big enough U of Nebraska is passing on you at 3.9/514

2) The people who matriculate OOS in Nebraska are not the typical borderline applicants

a) Only 22 people matriculated OOS in NE last year. The IS number does include some people from Creighton(you should apply to Creighton if you are a NE resident with a 3.9/33).
b) 333 applicants from Nebraska applied last year. Applicant MCAT SD is 4.6. So about 16 people applied with a 37.2+. Probably as a rough estimate 30-35 applied with a 35+
c) There are about 3800 matriculants a year at schools with 35+ median MCATs. So about 1900 had 35+ MCAT scores. There are about 3800 applicants a year who apply with 36+ MCAT scores. 35+ and 36+ aren't a perfect match but you can perhaps ball park it as 40% of people with 35+ MCAT scores who apply end up at schools with 35+ MCAT medians.
d) That means roughly 12-14 people a yr in NE go to those big name schools out of 22 OOS matriculants. The remaining 8-10 could be a) URMs b) Ties to another state or school c) Part of a speical program(ie SMP BS/MD) d) a million other things.
e) Nebraska in general had 147 matriculants last year.

Take away: Most people who matriculate OOS are not typical applicants in NE. Either they are top applicants or have special circumstances. Maybe out of those 22 OOS apps, 5 or less were your typical applicant. 3-5/147 matriculants. That's 2-3% of them.

Overall everything about this process is stress inducing and the neuroticism gets out of hand alot. People think they need to apply everywhere because they hear the stories of people with big stats not getting anywhere. It takes away from looking at things practically and logically. That's all that is going on if someone with a 3.9/33-34 in NE decides they need to apply to 20+ lower tier schools. It's just not practical, a waste of time, money and energy. It doesn't do anything to boost your chances really and it takes away from focusing on OOS reaches meaning you basically lock yourself into going to a lower tier type.

There is no value or reason to apply to a bunch of lower tier OOS schools in a state like NE. How many people are going to turn down the in state tuition of Nebraska to fork over the extra money to go to Drexel or NYMC? If you are go ahead and apply. It's a judgment call. But few people will. Which is why only apply to OOS schools you know you would strongly consider turning down for your state school and that juicy tuition in a case like this.

There are many things that have 2% chances of occurring in life we never even consider or take for granted: being in that potential 2% who matriculate OOS as a regular/traditional applicant shouldn't be that 2% occurence you start deciding to worry about and do irrational things over.
 
Last edited:
Are the Arizona schools another example of these types of schools where your chances are best defined by if you get into them as an AZ resident? Also if the aforementioned situation is accurate, and you stand a good chance of an acceptance as an AZ resident, is this the type of scenario where it is best to apply only to mostly reach schools since the discrepancy in IS/OOs tuition is 20k? @GrapesofRath

I don't have MSAR but will be purchasing it next summer when I apply, I was just curious about this situation particularly. Thanks!

Arizona actually has one of the lowest IS matriculation rates in the county at around 14% so no not at all. You would definitely want a good OOS list if you are from there in most cases. Whether the 20k difference is enough to you is purely a judgment call
 
Arizona actually has one of the lowest IS matriculation rates in the county at around 14% so no not at all. You would definitely want a good OOS list if you are from there in most cases. Whether the 20k difference is enough to you is purely a judgment call
Hey Grapes, so one of my buddies has MSAR and I asked him to check the matriculation rates before I had posed the question here.

From the pictures he showed me( which I have added here) it says Tucson matriculated 86 IS out of 117 matriculants and that Phx matriculated 67 out 80 IS for their first class. This seems much higher than 14% am I missing something, did he send me the wrong data, or is this outdated data perhaps? I would not be inclined to think so because my buddy bought it at the beginning of the calendar year I believe.
 

Attachments

  • image.jpeg
    image.jpeg
    106.4 KB · Views: 63
  • image.jpeg
    image.jpeg
    119.3 KB · Views: 62
Hey Grapes, so one of my buddies has MSAR and I asked him to check the matriculation rates before I had posed the question here.

From the pictures he showed me( which I have added here) it says Tucson matriculated 86 IS out of 117 matriculants and that Phx matriculated 67 out 80 IS for their first class. This seems much higher than 14% am I missing something, did he send me the wrong data, or is this outdated data perhaps? I would not be inclined to think so because my buddy bought it at the beginning of the calendar year I believe.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321466/data/factstablea5.pdf

This table is what Im referring to. 86+67 is 153 total people getting to stay in Arizona for medical school who are AZ residents. 153 isn't that much at all when there are 1004 applicants in Arizona to compete with. 15%. In fact that's as low of a number as there is in the country for any state with a state school outside of a couple states
 
https://www.aamc.org/download/321466/data/factstablea5.pdf

This table is what Im referring to. 86+67 is 153 total people getting to stay in Arizona for medical school who are AZ residents. 153 isn't that much at all when there are 1004 applicants in Arizona to compete with. 15%. In fact that's as low of a number as there is in the country for any state with a state school outside of a couple states
Thanks for the clarification!
 
Top