Students using Adderall and Cocaine to study

[DermViser]

Because you dislike the idea? And why do you have to view it as a competition? You seem to be succumbing to peer pressure. I'm so glad I'm at a P/F school.

Is it a "true" P/F school?

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[DermViser]

Can you even use cocaine as a performance enhancing drug within the context of academics? I figured you would get too ****** up for it to be useful.

I've never heard of cocaine being used, only Adderall. If it really works for someone and its prescribed by a physician for that person, I don't see the issue.

 

[NontradCA]

Is it a "true" P/F school?

yup

 

[CherryRedDracul]

I've never heard of cocaine being used, only Adderall. If it really works for someone and its prescribed by a physician for that person, I don't see the issue.

Cocaine sounds like a stupid idea anyway given its short half life.

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

No. Unless you can't handle not getting top grades, in which case say goodbye to your sanity.

 

[DermViser]

Cocaine sounds like a stupid idea anyway given its short half life.

Not to mention its illegal and since many med schools/hospitals screen MS-3s thru UDS, it might not be a good idea.

 

[PikminOC]

Many abusers snort adderall or ritalin...

 

[PL198]

Many abusers snort adderall or ritalin...

#bioavailability

inb4 we hear about people sticking coke up past their pectinate line

 

[anbuitachi]

I didn't read the whole thread, just the first page, and people are really bashing coke/adderall abusers. Maybe cocaine i can understand since its illegal and can have a lot of negative consequences.. but adderall? Personally I never tried any of that, rarely drink coffee either, but what do I get in return? Not so good grades, falling asleep on rounds and during surgeries, not the best step scores, b/c i naturally need 9-10 hrs of sleep to keep myself awake during the rest of the day and I obviously am not getting it.

Everyone's body and physiology works different. Student A may naturally have more dopamine or NE in their brains or w/e than student B. Student A may also only need 3-5 hrs of sleep to function perfectly [quite a few of these in med school..]. Why would it be disgraceful or shameful for student B to use drugs to be more competitive vs student A? They are not just taking in the benefits, but also the side effects as well. I mean just because Student B's genes aren't as good as student As in this aspect, doesn't mean student B doesn't deserve to have a better shot at getting into a competitive field/program.. Should B just watch as ppl get ahead of him and blame it on his genes, or should he do something about it, knowing that the grades/scores in med school isn't even a good reflection of how good of a doctor you become?

Besides, someone w/ ADHD can take those drugs legally w/o getting negative remarks. But really how much do we really know about psych disorders? I remember dsm4 ADHD symptoms had to be shown before age 7, then research shows that age 7 limit is BS so now DSM5 changed it to age 12. Who knows, perhaps DSM6 will get rid of age limit and we'd all be diagnosed with ADHD

 

[tmn]

I mean just because Student B's genes aren't as good as student As in this aspect, doesn't mean student B doesn't deserve to have a better shot at getting into a competitive field/program

I'm not sure how "deserve" factors into it. Unfairness is the name of the game.

 

[pre med 2014]

Why not start ward rounds strung out on cocaine?? Think about how fast you could examine all the patients!

 

[xffan624]

I didn't read the whole thread, just the first page, and people are really bashing coke/adderall abusers. Maybe cocaine i can understand since its illegal and can have a lot of negative consequences.. but adderall? Personally I never tried any of that, rarely drink coffee either, but what do I get in return? Not so good grades, falling asleep on rounds and during surgeries, not the best step scores, b/c i naturally need 9-10 hrs of sleep to keep myself awake during the rest of the day and I obviously am not getting it.

Everyone's body and physiology works different. Student A may naturally have more dopamine or NE in their brains or w/e than student B. Student A may also only need 3-5 hrs of sleep to function perfectly [quite a few of these in med school..]. Why would it be disgraceful or shameful for student B to use drugs to be more competitive vs student A? They are not just taking in the benefits, but also the side effects as well. I mean just because Student B's genes aren't as good as student As in this aspect, doesn't mean student B doesn't deserve to have a better shot at getting into a competitive field/program.. Should B just watch as ppl get ahead of him and blame it on his genes, or should he do something about it, knowing that the grades/scores in med school isn't even a good reflection of how good of a doctor you become?

Besides, someone w/ ADHD can take those drugs legally w/o getting negative remarks. But really how much do we really know about psych disorders? I remember dsm4 ADHD symptoms had to be shown before age 7, then research shows that age 7 limit is BS so now DSM5 changed it to age 12. Who knows, perhaps DSM6 will get rid of age limit and we'd all be diagnosed with ADHD

I don't think it's your sleepiness that's causing your bad grades...

 

[CherryRedDracul]

Why not start ward rounds strung out on cocaine?? Think about how fast you could examine all the patients!

Sounds like a good idea for any type of interview

 

[anbuitachi]

I'm not sure how "deserve" factors into it. Unfairness is the name of the game.

yea, one person needing 3-5 hrs of sleep per night to fully function does sound pretty unfair.

I don't think it's your sleepiness that's causing your bad grades...

you clearly dont know how sleepy i get during the day when i sleep 5-6 hrs the previous night. i sleep thru EVERYTHING. ive fallen asleep on rounds before. attendings noticed me dozing off infront of their face before. when attendings ask me questions i have no idea what to answer because half the time i didn't hear the question b/c i was too busy trying to not collapse from sleepiness. [also i said not so good grades, didn't say bad grades]

 

[PL198]

yea, one person needing 3-5 hrs of sleep per night to fully function does sound pretty unfair.



you clearly dont know how sleepy i get during the day when i sleep 5-6 hrs the previous night. i sleep thru EVERYTHING. ive fallen asleep on rounds before. attendings noticed me dozing off infront of their face before. when attendings ask me questions i have no idea what to answer because half the time i didn't hear the question b/c i was too busy trying to not collapse from sleepiness. [also i said not so good grades, didn't say bad grades]

then maybe you have a medical problem like sleep apnea... you should not need 9-10 hours to function.

 

[PL198]

I have no idea how someone would get through med school with sleeping that much, you must be 99th percentile for focus. I'm way too scatterbrained to pull that off unless I completely did nothing else

 

[anbuitachi]

then maybe you have a medical problem like sleep apnea... you should not need 9-10 hours to function.

nah i dont have sleep apnea. thats exactly what i am saying, diff ppl need different things. by your logic, people shouldn't be able to function 3-5 hrs either, but there are ppl like that. i just got unlucky and fell on the other end of the spectrum

 

[boogaloo]

Everyone's body and physiology works different. Student A may naturally have more dopamine or NE in their brains or w/e than student B. Student A may also only need 3-5 hrs of sleep to function perfectly [quite a few of these in med school..]. Why would it be disgraceful or shameful for student B to use drugs to be more competitive vs student A? They are not just taking in the benefits, but also the side effects as well. I mean just because Student B's genes aren't as good as student As in this aspect, doesn't mean student B doesn't deserve to have a better shot at getting into a competitive field/program.. Should B just watch as ppl get ahead of him and blame it on his genes, or should he do something about it, knowing that the grades/scores in med school isn't even a good reflection of how good of a doctor you become?

Maybe student B should blame it on his work ethic or study habits, and then work on improving those aspects of his life--you know, the ones he can control--without necessarily having to rely on off-label use of prescription medications. I sucked at the first block of anatomy. I didn't blame it on bad genes, and my first instinct wasn't to turn to medications for a "boost." Also, I disagree with the notion that grades/scores in medical school aren't a good reflection of how good you will be. The laziest people I know have the worst grades in medical school. Go figure.

 

[PL198]

nah i dont have sleep apnea. thats exactly what i am saying, diff ppl need different things. by your logic, people shouldn't be able to function 3-5 hrs either, but there are ppl like that. i just got unlucky and fell on the other end of the spectrum

no.. seeing as my whole point is that healthy people don't actually need nearly as much sleep as you claim to need

 

[Pacna]

nah i dont have sleep apnea. thats exactly what i am saying, diff ppl need different things. by your logic, people shouldn't be able to function 3-5 hrs either, but there are ppl like that. i just got unlucky and fell on the other end of the spectrum

no.. seeing as my whole point is that healthy people don't actually need nearly as much sleep as you claim to need

Personally, I find that my symptoms are worse when I don't get enough sleep. My prescription is also less effective. My biggest complaint is when I force myself to focus on something (despite every muscle in my body screaming at me to do anything else), I get very sleepy, very quickly. It's almost like passing out over the course of a couple of minutes. Therefore, I allot 8 hours of sleep each night. I usually wake up a couple of hours before my alarm. Stimulants help me immensely.

If you need 10 hours of sleep a night, take it. There is no reason that 2 more hours of sleep per day should negatively affect you. Med school isn't THAT hard. If going to bed at 8 PM screws you, you were screwed anyway.

 

[PL198]

Personally, I find that my symptoms are worse when I don't get enough sleep. My prescription is also less effective. My biggest complaint is when I force myself to focus on something (despite every muscle in my body screaming at me to do anything else), I get very sleepy, very quickly. It's almost like passing out over the course of a couple of minutes. Therefore, I allot 8 hours of sleep each night. I usually wake up a couple of hours before my alarm. Stimulants help me immensely.

If you need 10 hours of sleep a night, take it. There is no reason that 2 more hours of sleep per day should negatively affect you. Med school isn't THAT hard. If going to bed at 8 PM screws you, you were screwed anyway.

thats 8 % of your day. it's not that it's going to screw you, but that's 2 less hours to do everything you want to do. I don't even mean school stuff necessarily, like time to screw around.

 

[Lysinee]

You don't hear from some people who like experimenting with a cocktail of drugs because they usually die before they can share their story.

 

[Pacna]

thats 8 % of your day. it's not that it's going to screw you, but that's 2 less hours to do everything you want to do. I don't even mean school stuff necessarily, like time to screw around.

Ask anyone who gets involved in things that aren't med school. You work more efficiently if you're always pressed for time. You become a better time-manager through necessity.

Of course, there is a limit. You can only squeeze the rag so dry. But right now I'm posting on SDN when I could be doing 5 more Anki cards. Stuff like this adds up, and people pretty generally adapt to more time commitments with better time management. Sleeping is no different.

 

[PL198]

Ask anyone who gets involved in things that aren't med school. You work more efficiently if you're always pressed for time. You become a better time-manager through necessity.

Of course, there is a limit. You can only squeeze the rag so dry. But right now I'm posting on SDN when I could be doing 5 more Anki cards. Stuff like this adds up, and people pretty generally adapt to more time commitments with better time management. Sleeping is no different.

Right except at some point you don't have enough time to adept so well that you get it all done. If not, why not just sleep for 23 hours and get it all done in an hour being super efficient ?I understand what you're saying and it's valid when you go from 6-8 hours a day, but going up to 10 is spending a huge part of your day sleeping. I don't know anyone that sleeps 10 hours a day

 

[Dave89]

Why not start ward rounds strung out on cocaine?? Think about how fast you could examine all the patients!

 

[DrOwnage]

The students doing cocaine to study obviously never learned anything from pharmacology... Let's chronically use a drug where the physiological effects last at most 20-40 minutes and use carries serious side effects, some that are noticeably obvious to an observant student/professor. Adderall and lisdexamfetamine are another story. A dead giveaway is weight loss during study periods. Stress doesn't solely do that to you.

 

[pre med 2014]

The students doing cocaine to study obviously never learned anything from pharmacology... Let's chronically use a drug where the physiological effects last at most 20-40 minutes and use carries serious side effects, some that are noticeably obvious to an observant student/professor. Adderall and lisdexamfetamine are another story. A dead giveaway is weight loss during study periods. Stress doesn't solely do that to you.

You're not looking at it from an economical perspective. Sure the effects may only last 40 minutes but say you do a line every 30-40 minutes for 8 hours that can't be more than $200-300 worth of coke for the day. You do several repeats in exam period and say you spend $2000 during finals. But that's not much of an investment if you get better grades and end up in a competitive specialty making 300K instead of 150K as a GP.

There's a risk of being sidetracked with promiscuous sex and clubbing until sunrise. Otherwise if it all works to plan and you can get 10-20% higher on exams just by incorporating cocaine into your study plan it's not much if you consider 10-20% higher on exams may well translate into 10-20% higher salary!

 

[PL198]

You're not looking at it from an economical perspective. Sure the effects may only last 40 minutes but say you do a line every 30-40 minutes for 8 hours that can't be more than $200-300 worth of coke for the day. You do several repeats in exam period and say you spend $2000 during finals. But that's not much of an investment if you get better grades and end up in a competitive specialty making 300K instead of 150K as a GP.

There's a risk of being sidetracked with promiscuous sex and clubbing until sunrise. Otherwise if it all works to plan and you can get 10-20% higher on exams just by incorporating cocaine into your study plan it's not much if you consider 10-20% higher on exams may well translate into 10-20% higher salary!

there's side effects of coke usage...

 

[pre med 2014]

^I hope it was clear that I was being sarcastic about making an argument for cocaine. I do not believe using cocaine to study can be made safe or effective.

I was just using humor since some people actually do it but it's obviously such a bad idea lol

 

[Serous Demilune]

^I hope it was clear that I was being sarcastic about making an argument for cocaine. I do not believe using cocaine to study can be made safe or effective.

I was just using humor since some people actually do it but it's obviously such a bad idea lol

Also gets rid of your pesky nasal septum without the risks or costs of surgery!

 

[Pacna]

Right except at some point you don't have enough time to adept so well that you get it all done. If not, why not just sleep for 23 hours and get it all done in an hour being super efficient ?I understand what you're saying and it's valid when you go from 6-8 hours a day, but going up to 10 is spending a huge part of your day sleeping. I don't know anyone that sleeps 10 hours a day

I acknowledged that in my post. 10 may not work for you. It may work for the person you're arguing with.

 

[PL198]

you guys think you can get your school to buy you some to a) help with studying and b) enhance relationships and empathy with patients?

 

[Apoplexy__]

you guys think you can get your school to buy you some to a) help with studying and b) enhance relationships and empathy with patients?

Ya bro I just got some MDMA to prepare for my Step 2 CS. Gonna empathize all over my patients.

 

[PL198]

Ya bro I just got some MDMA to prepare for my Step 2 CS. Gonna empathize all over my patients.

Somewhere there's a PhD you could convince that it's a good idea

 

[pre med 2014]

Somewhere there's a PhD you could convince that it's a good idea

Actually there have been medical experiments giving MDMA to patients in order to allow them to open up more about their experiences for therapeutic purposes. However, there are no studies that I'm aware of where the doctor would also be administered ecstasy.

Edit: particularly it was done for PTSD with the hypothesis being that patients will resist revealing information about past traumatic experiences

 

[biotechrules]

I recently had a conversation with a classmate about the top students in our class, and how they do so well. I was shocked when he told me he knows all the guys that routinely get over a 95, and they do it by using cocaine and adderall to stay awake and focused while studying. I started asking other people about this, and a bunch of guys who got 250+ on step last year did it by just snorting coke the whole 6 weeks they studied. This seems really extreme to me, totally unfair, and unprofessional. Do you have a problem with this at your school? How prevalent is this?

First of all, this is not unfair, if anything, this is thinking outside of the box. Secondly, "unprofessional", if you are studying to get into a respectable medical school with thousands of other people competing for a spot, it is understandable for people to be shameless in their ways to improve their studying.

Finally, this WORKS, when I was studying for my entrance exam and friend of mine, who had sat it before, recommended using cocaine to study, but in regulated amounts, after I was used to it, I started using it to study and it was MIRACULOUS, my average grade score jumped up by a third and I was getting 98 - 100% on my tests. You just need to learn to control yourself when using it and I promise you will cruise on by while the rest of those suckers sticking to 'coffee' struggle to get 80%.

Rant over.

 

[PL198]

lol you just joined a forum to talk about the efficacy of coccaine for studying.

 

[giantswing]

Lol,

Why not start ward rounds strung out on cocaine?? Think about how fast you could examine all the patients!

actually i know a student who was on uppers, downers, and/or hallucinogens. He killed step one, then torpedoed any shot at a competitive residency by acting like a strung out messed up drug addict during third year, when he showed up at all, effectively pissing off everyone within a 20 mi radius and burning spectacularly.
So.
Stay away from drugs kids.

 

[PL198]

I'm going to guess that was due to the hallucinogens.... that's like saying you drink water, diet coke and antifreeze. 1 of these things is not like the others

 

[GomersGoToGround]

I'm going to guess that was due to the hallucinogens.... that's like saying you drink water, diet coke and antifreeze. 1 of these things is not like the others

I actually laughed out loud pretty damn hard with that one. Maybe in the future you'll see it in my signature.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

First of all, this is not unfair, if anything, this is thinking outside of the box. Secondly, "unprofessional", if you are studying to get into a respectable medical school with thousands of other people competing for a spot, Tis understandable for people to be shameless in their ways to improve their studying.

Finally, this WORKS, when I was studying for my entrance exam and friend of mine, who had sat it before, recommended using cocaine to study, but in regulated amounts, after I was used to it, I started using it to study and Twas MIRACULOUS, my average grade score jumped up by a third and I was getting 98 - 100% on my tests. You just need to learn to control yourself when using it and I promise you will cruise on by while the rest of those suckers sticking to 'coffee' struggle to get 80%.

Rant over.

This makes me proud, future colleague. Damn proud. You do whatever is necessary to keep those grades up, that's the most important thing. In life.

 

[NuckyThompson]

I recently had a conversation with a classmate about the top students in our class, and how they do so well. I was shocked when he told me he knows all the guys that routinely get over a 95, and they do it by using cocaine and adderall to stay awake and focused while studying. I started asking other people about this, and a bunch of guys who got 250+ on step last year did it by just snorting coke the whole 6 weeks they studied. This seems really extreme to me, totally unfair, and unprofessional. Do you have a problem with this at your school? How prevalent is this?

Apparently my father did cocaine in medical school to help study. I don't know how much he did or how often but he's never had an addiction problem and he only did it in medical school. BUT ITS ILLEGAL. He is a great physician though so I wouldn't think those people are necessarily bad or anything... Its up to you if you want to do that stuff but I won't.

 

[GunnerBMS]

The people using coke and adderall to get an advantage are irresponsible. Its too bad I don't believe in Karma or divine justice,cuz I'd like to see these kiddies get whts coming to them

 

[jakeislove]

Our school has drug testing to keep out addicts.

 

[anaesthetic]

.

 

[giantswing]

My worst nightmare

Second this. Heard about a few classmates showing up completely strung out from Adderall during third year, something I knew they took but didn't know they were that brave (used to hang out with them). They are still going to graduate and are likely going to match just fine, and I wonder (but don't really care) how they'll fare during residency. One of them is going into a particularly stressful and time-consuming specialty, too. Oh well.

My worst fear is operating on someone who has a strung out, asleep at the helm ansthesia resident at the head who may or may not be sneaking hits while I'm trying to work. That's what i picture with this person.
I did talk to an administrator. Don't know if anything came of it.

 

[giantswing]

I'm going to guess that was due to the hallucinogens.... that's like saying you drink water, diet coke and antifreeze. 1 of these things is not like the others

Lol i have no idea, tried to avoid him like the plauge.

 

[swolebrah]

I'm surprised nobody brought up provigil abuse yet. I'm assuming because of the high price tag...it's not as common.

 

[spik]

I recently had a conversation with a classmate about the top students in our class, and how they do so well. I was shocked when he told me he knows all the guys that routinely get over a 95, and they do it by using cocaine and adderall to stay awake and focused while studying. I started asking other people about this, and a bunch of guys who got 250+ on step last year did it by just snorting coke the whole 6 weeks they studied. This seems really extreme to me, totally unfair, and unprofessional. Do you have a problem with this at your school? How prevalent is this?

I think your classmates are pulling your leg. I routinely got over a 90 in my classes, mostly honors in clinical rotations, and 260+ on steps. I have never tried any illegal substances, and I am one of those people who need at least 8 hours of sleep daily. My high-performing friends also do not use drugs for studying.

 

[Flamen04]

A dead giveaway is weight loss during study periods. Stress doesn't solely do that to you.

False. Stress can lead to anorexia, which can lead to weight loss...