Students using Adderall and Cocaine to study

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David Hasselhof said:
I guess I'm just saying that it is naive to think that all "illegal" drug users are inherently evil because the government tells you so.
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I find that interesting because of how this discussion was about inherently believing all users of all illegal drugs are evil because of govt regulations, rather than a conversation concerning illegal cocaine use as a study aid and its potentially continued abuse during clinical practice.
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Where the hell are these people coming from reasoning cocaine use in med school and calling people sheltered for not accepting coke in daily life. If you want to use a drug to party, that's on your own time and no one can stop you. If you want to use it as a crutch to get through a career, that's something completely different.

Those kids describing how coke can be used in school are probably the sheltered ones. Anyone that intense about med school to take coke to study is not doing life right. Take a lap, pre-meds.
 
David Hasselhof said:
Please, explain?



Just the part about "OMGZ coronary vasospasm and nasal septum perf!!"

Those are very rare complications that the vast majority of "responsible" cocaine users will never have.

Now, obviously I don't think that any physician should be using any psychoactive drug while practicing or put himself/herself at risk for withdrawals. I guess I'm just saying that it is naive to think that all "illegal" drug users are inherently evil because the government tells you so.
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Have you spent one day seeing patients yet? I've seen innumerable amounts of cocaine chest pains including large myocardial infarcations.

"Responsible" and using illegal substances as a physician do not belong in the same sentence. It is irresponsible to use an illegal substance as a physician because you have a lot to lose.
 
badasshairday said:
Have you spent one day seeing patients yet? I've seen innumerable amounts of cocaine chest pains including large myocardial infarcations.

"Responsible" and using illegal substances as a physician do not belong in the same sentence. It is irresponsible to use an illegal substance as a physician because you have a lot to lose.
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Can we have the premed shadow in your hospital? He needs a LOR.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
As a lung guy, I wouldn't think you would be giving out much adderall anyway 😀

The DEA is too busy with opioid prescribing to care much about stimulants, Schedule 2 v. lortab's 3 notwithstanding.

I don't prescribe the stuff when I moonlight in Urgent Care (and try not to in my office), but I know folks who will.

Luckily, the stimulant abuse in college/grad school is getting more attention paid to it. Hopefully this will make prescribers pay more attention.
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Horrifying.

Though I will use a small dose ritalin in my end stage lung disease patients on opiates to kill the dyspnea and getting sleepy because of it
 
tennisstar89 said:
I recently had a conversation with a classmate about the top students in our class, and how they do so well. I was shocked when he told me he knows all the guys that routinely get over a 95, and they do it by using cocaine and adderall to stay awake and focused while studying. I started asking other people about this, and a bunch of guys who got 250+ on step last year did it by just snorting coke the whole 6 weeks they studied. This seems really extreme to me, totally unfair, and unprofessional. Do you have a problem with this at your school? How prevalent is this?
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Adderall = Ok if you really need it, have a legitimate diagnosis of ADHD, and are not abusing the drug.

Cocaine = Never never ok. Ever.
 
Lol. Anyone with a shred of pharmacological knowledge would not be using a drug with such a short half life and rapid tolerance development to pursue a goal with a longer duration than 30-90 minutes. The fact that someone would be stupid enough to try that indicates that these are either 'friend of a friend' rumors, or it is taking place among sheltered and sickeningly naive/rich students.

People using cocaine to to party? Yeah I have seen that among health professions students... But to study or facilitate career goals? IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE!!
 
tennisstar89 said:
I recently had a conversation with a classmate about the top students in our class, and how they do so well. I was shocked when he told me he knows all the guys that routinely get over a 95, and they do it by using cocaine and adderall to stay awake and focused while studying. I started asking other people about this, and a bunch of guys who got 250+ on step last year did it by just snorting coke the whole 6 weeks they studied. This seems really extreme to me, totally unfair, and unprofessional. Do you have a problem with this at your school? How prevalent is this?
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True story- we had a "top student" in my class who apparently was using cocaine and meth IV as study aids during the entire program. The week before graduation he was found dead with a book in his lap and a needle in his arm. seriously.
 
thedoctor8706 said:
Adderall = Ok if you really need it, have a legitimate diagnosis of ADHD, and are not abusing the drug.

Cocaine = Never never ok. Ever.
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hey ritalin and cocaine have nearly equal pharmdynamics, the only difference is the route of administration (and thus bioavailability ), half-life and that black market cocaine is tainted with all sort of toxic substances and some say grounded glass.
Saying cocaine is never ok while adderal is (amphetamine salts), might be a bit biased. You are saying that because cocaine has a history of abuse and illegal trade.
The same is for heroin, there are other more potent and dangerous synthetic clinically used opioids (with more respiratory depression), what makes heroin dangerous it is its background and by who/when is usually used. Not the substance itself.

IN TOPIC, i never heard of someone using coke in med school, although i cant say the same about ritalin or aderall.
 
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From what I know about cocaine, it doesn't make you calmly sit down and memorize netter's for 12 hours in a row. It makes you high as a kite and wanting to do a million different things at once then you crash and go cry in a corner and want to die. It totally trashes your vasculature because of its systemic effects and can lead to sudden death even with small amounts. Most of the drug in the US is also cut with extremely dangerous stuff (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levamisole_Induced_Necrosis_Syndrome). It is extremely expensive and purchasing it funds violent drug cartels (not hippie grandmas growing pot in their backyard). It addictive potential is higher than any other drug, and people fiend for more to keep the high going until they are broke or dead. If you talk to addicts, you know that people who start using cocaine and keep using all eventually end up smoking it or shooting it and that leads to either death, prison, or rehab.

Possession is also a felony and will lead to prison time. You'd have to be a ***** to be anywhere near it in the first place. To use it as a study drug in med school compounds this stupidity exponentially.

There's a lot of defensive/denial attitudes going on this thread (oh it's just like ritalin, you're sheltered, it can be used responsibly, etc). No doubt people are using it for fun in med school given that it's a common prep-school rich kid drug. I have heard one med student casually admit to using it to party, and there are a handful of others I am sure are involved with it. However, I don't think studying has anything to do with it.
 
link2swim06 said:
Funny thing is cocaine and adderall are both schedule 2 drugs.
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And meth.


And marijuana is a schedule 1 drug. So it HAS to be worse than cocaine and meth, right?

I'm not advocating drug use at all, I'm just saying that the legal status and scheduling of drugs is so arbitrary that it is hard to demonize a cocaine user while saying that using Adderall to study is acceptable.
 
David Hasselhof said:
And meth.


And marijuana is a schedule 1 drug. So it HAS to be worse than cocaine and meth, right?

I'm not advocating drug use at all, I'm just saying that the legal status and scheduling of drugs is so arbitrary that it is hard to demonize a cocaine user while saying that using Adderall to study is acceptable.
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Your understanding of what's being discussed here is clearly nonexistent. Stop trying to argue against points that no one is making.
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
Your understanding of what's being discussed here is clearly nonexistent. Stop trying to argue against points that no one is making.
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I completely understand what is being discussed here.


It is beyond idiotic to use cocaine as a study aid, from both pharmacological and ethical standpoints.
 
Couple of things here: It is certainly possible that some people are using illegal stimulant drugs to study. The benefit, hypothetically, is that increased adrenergic tone to the anterior cingulate gyrus helps maintain focus amid the presence of distractors. This is obviously dose dependent, which is why methylphenidate and dextroamphetamine are prescribed PO in regulated doses. Delivering euphoric doses by snorting may help sustain concentration for a while, but the washout period is going to leave a person listless and unfocused for longer. For net gain, and long term retention, this is foolish.

Cutting cocaine with ground glass sounds like an urban legend to me. Levamisole is very common, as it is a veterinary deworrmer that potentiates the sympathomimetic effects. The necrosis is a rare (but horrific) side effect that is poorly substantiated. There are more widespread risks, such as addiction, devastating legal complications, and poor decisions made during the euphoric period and the washout period.

Med school/residency is a situation that lends to abuse of these drugs, due to long hours that require concentration. Interestingly, methamphetamine was dispensed PO to to Nazi soldiers in WWII to alleviate fatigue and "sustain morale". Heinrich Boll's autobiography has some interesting insights on this. Recall that the Nazis ultimately lost the war.

Abusing drugs for the sake of studying is silly. Buy an espresso maker, for Pete's sake.
 
hey meth wasnt just used by nazis, the ally pilots doing restless bomber raids over berlin also used it. This is why drug war will never work, because there is always somekind of bias.
Otherwise your post is golden.
 
Kahreek said:
hey meth wasnt just used by nazis, the ally pilots doing restless bomber raids over berlin also used it. This is why drug war will never work, because there is always somekind of bias.
Otherwise your post is golden.
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The US military still gives pilots stimulants to keep them awake.
 
Everyone here seems to think the medical community is immune to trends in society. What is the rate of anti-deppressant use among medical students? What are the rates of antideppressant prescriptions in America vs the rest of the world? Do these accurately parallel higher prevalence due to improved reporting or is this a serious social problem for a culture that is built up entirely on binge consumption? I don't think you can have a conversation about adderral usage without having a corresponding discussion about how ridiculously widespread SSRI / SNRI prescriptions are.
 
werd said:
my opinion on this is succinct... if you need and/or are willing to use stimulants in an illegal fashion to succeed in medical training, then your medical school make a mistake in accepting you.
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Your point is taken with a grain of salt because there are many other behaviors/mannerisms against medical students, residents and attendings that I would consider being evidence of a mistake in acceptance to medical school. They are:

1. Being an ******* who thinks he/she is actually smart.
2. Being an *******
3. Being an *******
4. Being a dick.
 
Addiction is something that is really hard to understand unless you've been through it. Almost nobody starts using b/c they think it will make them lose their family, sleep on the streets, steal from friends, or end up in jail. However an abundance of people start to gain an advantage in school or work, party and have a good time, or relax on the weekends. It's insidious in that way, and only the lucky ones realize when it has become a problem. But even when you know it's a problem, it is a rare few that can actually do something about it and get clean.

It's like an automobile accident, it's not something you do on purpose (becoming an addict). People are playing with fire if they are using coke to get through exams.

I've had at least one person offer me a Ritalin while we were rotating. It's probably pretty common, but I definitely think less of that person now.
 
link2swim06 said:
Funny thing is cocaine and adderall are both schedule 2 drugs.
Click to expand...

Kahreek said:
hey ritalin and cocaine have nearly equal pharmdynamics, the only difference is the route of administration (and thus bioavailability ), half-life and that black market cocaine is tainted with all sort of toxic substances and some say grounded glass.
Saying cocaine is never ok while adderal is (amphetamine salts), might be a bit biased. You are saying that because cocaine has a history of abuse and illegal trade.
The same is for heroin, there are other more potent and dangerous synthetic clinically used opioids (with more respiratory depression), what makes heroin dangerous it is its background and by who/when is usually used. Not the substance itself.

IN TOPIC, i never heard of someone using coke in med school, although i cant say the same about ritalin or aderall.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Sorry if what I said came off as pretentious, what I meant by my post was not to compare the safety or efficacy of certain drugs, but rather to compare their legality and/or abuse. Plenty of kiddies abuse Aderrall too, and in that case it's no better than shooting up cocaine IMHO.
 
Those who suffer for their choices to partake of damaging drugs are victims of their own stupidity. Shockingly, if someone takes adderall or coke in school it's not actually about you.

As (future) medical professionals we should have a degree of compassion for their poor decision making skills and treat them as patients instead of villains.
 
Anastomoses said:
Those who suffer for their choices to partake of damaging drugs are victims of their own stupidity. Shockingly, if someone takes adderall or coke in school it's not actually about you.

As (future) medical professionals we should have a degree of compassion for their poor decision making skills and treat them as patients instead of villains.
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I hope you don't think adderall is a damaging drug.
 
See if this sounds familiar to anyone:
An entire bedroom or living room is cleared out. Every book about a subject is laid out open to the first topic on the test. Notes are also laid out along the floor in some organized fashion.

Student doses himself.

By the end of the cram session, the student has seen everything that may be on the test at least once.

Student doses himself again and takes the exam.

Student finishes the exam, goes home and crashes out for the rest of the day.

It doesn't matter if cocaine, THC or the different forms of meth are used, if what you're going for is strict cramming and regurgitation, this strategy has proven successful for many. You learn all you can with whatever you can tolerate along the way, then use whatever you can get your hands on for that final cram session. I've seen all of these and more being used by pre-meds and medical students.

Residents know better that to give any hint that they're dosing themselves with something, as we can be told to pee in a cup at any time and risk loosing our chance at a medical career if caught.

Illicit drugs may be the best option for those that don't want any official ADHD or medication for it on the record anywhere. They may go with what they've all been comfortable using before, and that's why they may do a line of coke like you or I crack a can of Coke to wake up. Many stimulants have a big black box warning at the very beginning of the PI that states the possibility of SUDDEN DEATH from taking it, so there is always a significant risk.

Also remember that, after you get into medical school for many and definitely after you graduate, all states have a "diversion" program specifically set up for health professionals that are kept absolutely confidential from law enforcement and any licensing professionals, so that's why some may be more lax about stuff after they've made it into school.

Just my experience.
 
The drug users you know nothing about are the ones who use ADHD drugs to get an edge, but who aren't stupid about it and keep their mouths shut.

They:

*Get their sleep
*Maintain good nutrient intake
*Maintain good study habits
*Exercise

And on top of this - they dose with ADHD stimulants to get an additional academic edge, but they don't talk about it.

None of us have any idea who this group of people is, or what proportion of competitive students in law/medicine/science are now dosing.

I know more than one practicing psychiatrist who believes that stimulants enhance cognition and focus in non-ADHD users, that long term stimulant use is safe and beneficial to regular people who are seeking enhanced focus and mental endurance, and who have no qualms about prescribing it for cognitive enhancement to non-ADHD people.

My strong suspicion is that the numbers are much higher than the data suggests, that we have entered an age of cognitive enhancement, like it or not, and there is no going back.
 
type b pharmD said:
Lol. Anyone with a shred of pharmacological knowledge would not be using a drug with such a short half life and rapid tolerance development to pursue a goal with a longer duration than 30-90 minutes. The fact that someone would be stupid enough to try that indicates that these are either 'friend of a friend' rumors, or it is taking place among sheltered and sickeningly naive/rich students.

People using cocaine to to party? Yeah I have seen that among health professions students... But to study or facilitate career goals? IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE!!
Click to expand...


so much this.......


op is just mad that he is getting burned and is making excuses
 
I feel awkward now because whenever someone asks me how I covered so much material in a short span I always look at them with a dead serious face and say: "Cocaine."

It's the best feeling when you outsmart someone who is abusing Adderall though. If you look carefully, you can even see that "****.. I should use more Adderall" look in their eyes.
 
tennisstar89 said:
I recently had a conversation with a classmate about the top students in our class, and how they do so well. I was shocked when he told me he knows all the guys that routinely get over a 95, and they do it by using cocaine and adderall to stay awake and focused while studying. I started asking other people about this, and a bunch of guys who got 250+ on step last year did it by just snorting coke the whole 6 weeks they studied. This seems really extreme to me, totally unfair, and unprofessional. Do you have a problem with this at your school? How prevalent is this?
Click to expand...

I regularly get around 90 on my exams. I don't think coke is what would bring me up to a 95+. It might make studying more fun, though.

Edit: lolnecrobump :smack:
 
calimeds said:
The drug users you know nothing about are the ones who use ADHD drugs to get an edge, but who aren't stupid about it and keep their mouths shut.

They:

*Get their sleep
*Maintain good nutrient intake
*Maintain good study habits
*Exercise

And on top of this - they dose with ADHD stimulants to get an additional academic edge, but they don't talk about it.

None of us have any idea who this group of people is, or what proportion of competitive students in law/medicine/science are now dosing.

I know more than one practicing psychiatrist who believes that stimulants enhance cognition and focus in non-ADHD users, that long term stimulant use is safe and beneficial to regular people who are seeking enhanced focus and mental endurance, and who have no qualms about prescribing it for cognitive enhancement to non-ADHD people.

My strong suspicion is that the numbers are much higher than the data suggests, that we have entered an age of cognitive enhancement, like it or not, and there is no going back.
Click to expand...

yet no one is even sure if those drugs help people without problems. just because students think they help, doesn't mean they actually are.
 
The fact that some people in this thread put cocaine and prescription stimulant meds on the same level is crazy to me.

I used to hold a grudge against people who "abused" prescription stimulants. Then I started to do well in medical school...magically, I stopped caring. Turns out it was just a defense mechanism that I could throw my feelings of inadequacy on. I wonder how many people that is the case for.

Who are we to judge what people do anyway? Aren't we educated enough to know that psychiatry has difficult social, ethical, and moral blurred lines that warrant understanding and withholding of judgement?
 
I don't believe the 15% adderall usage amongst medical students cited earlier, in my experience I would say it's about 25-30%. I don't use it, but am considering giving it a shot since I am already drinking 2 cups of coffee a day to stay awake and alert (never drank coffee in college). I just need to figure out how to get a prescription. I dislike the idea but the competition is using every advantage they possibly can so why shouldn't I?
 
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GoPelicans said:
I don't believe the 15% adderall usage amongst medical students cited earlier, in my experience I would say it's about 25-30%. I don't use it, but am considering giving it a shot since I am already drinking 2 cups of coffee a day to stay awake and alert (never drank coffee in college). I just need to figure out how to get a prescription. I dislike the idea but the competition is using every advantage they possibly can so why shouldn't I?
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Because you dislike the idea? And why do you have to view it as a competition? You seem to be succumbing to peer pressure. I'm so glad I'm at a P/F school.
 
GoPelicans said:
I don't believe the 15% adderall usage amongst medical students cited earlier, in my experience I would say it's about 25-30%. I don't use it, but am considering giving it a shot since I am already drinking 2 cups of coffee a day to stay awake and alert (never drank coffee in college). I just need to figure out how to get a prescription. I dislike the idea but the competition is using every advantage they possibly can so why shouldn't I?
Click to expand...
It is that rough? Wow..
 
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