Studying for class does not = Studying for Step1?

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UAAWolf

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So...M1 is almost done, and I can safely say we covered maybe 40-50% of the topics in First Aid for the classes we have taken (for example...biochem covered maybe 50% of the FA bio section..wtf)

On top of that, we don't have clinical questions, and do not emphasize diseases in biochem, immuno, etc. Maybe we'll get that in path? I hope....


Anyways, our exams are all non-board format, pretty much being stuff such as "what does this protein do" or "name the amino acid sequence in this enzyme" or "recite the krebs cycle" lmao.....


One could easily get 95+ on our class exams and know less than 50% of the board material for that subject...especially when tests focus on little details.

I'm just frustrated with my last few scores I guess...mainly because I know the clinical vignettes/material well but my school only tests on low yield facts..

End rant. Thank you!
 
So...M1 is almost done, and I can safely say we covered maybe 40-50% of the topics in First Aid for the classes we have taken (for example...biochem covered maybe 50% of the FA bio section..wtf)

I'm just frustrated with my last few scores I guess...mainly because I know the clinical vignettes/material well but my school only tests on low yield facts..

End rant. Thank you!



Same boat here. I am completely sympathetic. You're welcome.
 
You're doing fine. First year was like that for me too. I basically ignored the class material and went through review books.

I passed 2 of my first year courses by 5% (in retrospect should have focused on these classes more since I saw the inane minutia coming)

This year, following the same strategy, I'm doing fine and getting >260s on step 1 practice with 8 weeks to go. We'll see what happens on the real thing. The high yield stuff in FA and BRS comes back to help you eventually if you can remember it.

As I often tell myself, I'd happily trade in all my honors and high passes for an extra 10 points on the step 1.
 
You're doing fine. First year was like that for me too. I basically ignored the class material and went through review books.

I passed 2 of my first year courses by 5% (in retrospect should have focused on these classes more since I saw the inane minutia coming)

This year, following the same strategy, I'm doing fine and getting >260s on step 1 practice with 8 weeks to go. We'll see what happens on the real thing. The high yield stuff in FA and BRS comes back to help you eventually if you can remember it.

As I often tell myself, I'd happily trade in all my honors and high passes for an extra 10 points on the step 1.

I felt the same way first year. The challenge is not to be frustrated and continue on next year - as many posters have said above me, it works a LOT better 2nd year (and, as an added bonus, will help you keep your sanity by focusing on what really matters).

Keep on keepin' on.
 
I knew everything in First Aid/RR for my immuno test cold. Looked over the class notes and read the book after, didn't memorize the crazy details.

Well, it was all crazy details. lol...

I memorized like 20+ diseases and crap, 0 on there. WOOT


Glad to know I'm not alone...I seriously know a lot, just have not really been tested on it...But ya, It'll pay off.
 
I knew everything in First Aid/RR for my immuno test cold. Looked over the class notes and read the book after, didn't memorize the crazy details.

Well, it was all crazy details. lol...

I memorized like 20+ diseases and crap, 0 on there. WOOT


Glad to know I'm not alone...I seriously know a lot, just have not really been tested on it...But ya, It'll pay off.

It wont. Preparing for class is the best way to prepare for the board. There is a reason why carribean student who only study for board don't do well.
 
It wont. Preparing for class is the best way to prepare for the board. There is a reason why carribean student who only study for board don't do well.

This is highly school dependent.

OP just talk to upperclassmen at your school
 
This is highly school dependent.

OP just talk to upperclassmen at your school

I actually asked an M3 about this. His advice was.

"You're on your own for Step 1. They cover some of it, but not nearly enough"
 
It wont. Preparing for class is the best way to prepare for the board.

Even at a school that straight up tells you they don't teach towards the boards or focus on preparing you for it? Why not study for both? Who cares if you only score an 80 in a pass fail class when you learn more high yield facts on your own....

not_sure_if_srs.jpg
 
It wont. Preparing for class is the best way to prepare for the board. There is a reason why carribean student who only study for board don't do well.

Could it be that they don't do well on boards because they're less qualified to begin with? I know this doesn't apply to everyone at a Caribbean school so don't get pissy if you have a "friend" at a Caribbean school that is awesome or whatever, but most of them couldn't get into an allopathic or osteopathic school in the states, so that should speak to their ability to study hard and perform well on a standardized exam.

Even at a school that straight up tells you they don't teach towards the boards or focus on preparing you for it? Why not study for both? Who cares if you only score an 80 in a pass fail class when you learn more high yield facts on your own....

I'd say study for both if you can.

I never really thought about how lucky I am to be at a school where our curriculum is set up on an organ system block curriculum. For instance we just finished pulmonary and covered everything about the lungs from physio to histo to path. The physio followed right along with BRS for the most part and the path (plus some extra) was all represented in RR. Plus the minutia on the exams is minimal so we can just take the hit and miss those couple.

Unfortunately, I know this isn't the case for you, so just try to balance it as best you can. Obviously don't flunk out because you're studying step-1 books too much (flunk out and you won't have to worry about step 1 at all), but I think a little bit lower class rank would be more than offset by a great to SDN quality step 1 score.
 
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I actually asked an M3 about this. His advice was.

"You're on your own for Step 1. They cover some of it, but not nearly enough"

Talk to a wide variety of people at your school and find out information about specific schedules they used and make a schedule that works for you.

Take everything on SDN with a grain of salt because everyone's school is different.

Even with schools where they teach to the boards you still have to do a lot of independent studying. They showed us a graph where GPA had a linear correlation of something like 0.8 with Step 1 scores. I still had to study a lot independently to get the results I wanted.

During the 2nd half of 2nd year I definitely put Step 1 stuff ahead of in class stuff. There was overlap between the important stuff and big picture concept and I would just cram the low yield details.

The type of nitpicky details you talk about are less frequent 2nd year and the ones you do see are more likely to be the nitpicky stuff USMLE likes (Micro is a good example)
 
Let me clarify. In my first year I did not study for the board at all, which I am glad, because that's the time when I put time into the nitty gritty details of biochem and physio.

Now, at time for board, I did not have to re-read BRS or biochem text, and I am performing well on qbank partially thanks to the effort I put in first year.

I would not be able to do what I do now if all I did was "high yield" stuff for first year.

Gotta walk before you run.
 
Even at a school that straight up tells you they don't teach towards the boards or focus on preparing you for it? Why not study for both?



becauuuuuse having a life outside of class is fun
 
All 3 (in class studying, board studying, and a life) is possible.


maybe for you. But for the average person, its just not worth it. There is so much important/relevant material that I spend enough time trying to master that. I'm not gonna waste any of my time memorizing random factoids that don't matter for anything. If you find fulfillment in doing that, AND you still have enough time outside of school to enjoy yourself, then kudos. If I was able to pick up the information fast enough to do that, then yea it would be the best case scenario. But thats not the reality.

It also depends on how much your school deviates from step related material.
 
maybe for you. But for the average person, its just not worth it. There is so much important/relevant material that I spend enough time trying to master that. I'm not gonna waste any of my time memorizing random factoids that don't matter for anything. If you find fulfillment in doing that, AND you still have enough time outside of school to enjoy yourself, then kudos. If I was able to pick up the information fast enough to do that, then yea it would be the best case scenario. But thats not the reality.

It also depends on how much your school deviates from step related material.

I'm with you. I simply crammed the random factoids that weren't high yield right before my in-class exams.

My school is pretty decent about being relevant to Step 1 and we had a low amount of mandatory class. Skipping a lot of class was a big factor in having the time I had so I will say it will be different for people who have a lot of mandatory class in M2.

I still think people overstate the amount of time required to do well in med school. People exaggerate how much time they spend studying or they include time that is not really spent studying. Or they are not studying the most effective way.

BTW I'm not some kind of special case that doesn't have to study (nothing impressive about my UG #'s - 3.15 GPA, 33 MCAT), I'm just saying if you study hard AND smart you can do well in both and still have a life. The only extended time in med school where I didn't have much of a life was April -June before my Step in June (still made time to see my gf and watch some World Cup and NBA playoffs though) and my Surg rotation.
 
I'm with you. I simply crammed the random factoids that weren't high yield right before my in-class exams.

My school is pretty decent about being relevant to Step 1 and we had a low amount of mandatory class. Skipping a lot of class was a big factor in having the time I had so I will say it will be different for people who have a lot of mandatory class in M2.

I still think people overstate the amount of time required to do well in med school. People exaggerate how much time they spend studying or they include time that is not really spent studying. Or they are not studying the most effective way.

BTW I'm not some kind of special case that doesn't have to study (nothing impressive about my UG #'s - 3.15 GPA, 33 MCAT), I'm just saying if you study hard AND smart you can do well in both and still have a life. The only extended time in med school where I didn't have much of a life was April -June before my Step in June (still made time to see my gf and watch some World Cup and NBA playoffs though) and my Surg rotation.

I definitely agree with this, especially the part about skipping class. I know some people learn better from lectures, but I get little to no benefit out of lecture and most of my learning comes from self-study (reading the notes, review books, etc.). As a result, I've stopped attending lectures all together, which has freed up anywhere from 2-5 hours of study time for me most days that was otherwise wasted sitting in class. I know not everyone has this option though, and I don't know what I would do at a school with mandatory lecture...
 
I'm with you. I simply crammed the random factoids that weren't high yield right before my in-class exams.

My school is pretty decent about being relevant to Step 1 and we had a low amount of mandatory class. Skipping a lot of class was a big factor in having the time I had so I will say it will be different for people who have a lot of mandatory class in M2.

I still think people overstate the amount of time required to do well in med school. People exaggerate how much time they spend studying or they include time that is not really spent studying. Or they are not studying the most effective way.

BTW I'm not some kind of special case that doesn't have to study (nothing impressive about my UG #'s - 3.15 GPA, 33 MCAT), I'm just saying if you study hard AND smart you can do well in both and still have a life. The only extended time in med school where I didn't have much of a life was April -June before my Step in June (still made time to see my gf and watch some World Cup and NBA playoffs though) and my Surg rotation.

yea i feel yea....but in a P/F system there really is no incentive to cram useless factoids. You can simply ignore them, and if you have an understanding of the important stuff (which you will if you just study hard), you will still be far from failing the exam
 
my heart goes out to ya OP- it's one of the more frustrating parts about med school and usually administration doesn't want to fix it. Personally I dealt with it by making a "cheat sheet" for nitpicky details and formulas that I would use to cram the AM of and before an exam and wouldn't need for clinical practice [example- pKa's of amino acids. This has never come up in M3/M4]. Obviously I put it away and didn't cheat during the exam but I made the review sheet what I would have wanted if I had. I had a prof in undergrad that gave me this tip b/c when you make the sheet you're actually studying and you have to know the material to make one.
 
yea i feel yea....but in a P/F system there really is no incentive to cram useless factoids. You can simply ignore them, and if you have an understanding of the important stuff (which you will if you just study hard), you will still be far from failing the exam

I agree, I was only commenting on what I did for my system (ABCfail)
 
Honestly, I thought that knowing FA, RR Goljan, and BRS Physio at best could max you out at like 240 or 245 (based on my experience with all the practices and the real thing). Add UWorld x2 and maybe you can max out at 250 unless you have a freakishly good recall. I had to go to more in depth resources, and doing well in the pre-clinical years definitely helped.

Part of it is... the kind of person who studies well for the first two years is the kind of person who will have a solid regimented schedule and good study habits for the final push.

I'm a little ways away from Step 1 at this point, though. My aging brain may be foggy.

Even at a school that straight up tells you they don't teach towards the boards or focus on preparing you for it? Why not study for both? Who cares if you only score an 80 in a pass fail class when you learn more high yield facts on your own....

not_sure_if_srs.jpg
 
Honestly, I thought that knowing FA, RR Goljan, and BRS Physio at best could max you out at like 240 or 245 (based on my experience with all the practices and the real thing). Add UWorld x2 and maybe you can max out at 250 unless you have a freakishly good recall.
You have to remember that those scores are way beyond what most people are trying to break on Step 1. Just because everyone and their mother on SDN hits the 270's doesn't mean a 245 isn't a damn awesome score. Most people would be absolutely thrilled to pull out a 240. I know I certainly would have been. Not everyone needs to (or should) commit their biochem textbook to memory.
 
So is the consensus to just do as well as you can the first 2 years, then start making a push for the boards at the end of 2nd year?

I guess it is school dependent...
 
So is the consensus to just do as well as you can the first 2 years, then start making a push for the boards at the end of 2nd year?

I guess it is school dependent...


you can do as well as you can during the first 2 years while studying board relevant material. just do your best the first two years to learn the related material. The reason i havent felt stress at all studying for boards is b/c I am not trying to cram 2 years of relevant material into 6 weeks of studying. Ive been studying it all along, so most of its not new. I feel those that are most stressed are those that do leave the board studying for after classes are over. I'm sure both types of students do fine, its just a matter of how much stress you wanna put on yourself. To me, it made a lot more sense to try and learn material over the 7 months of 2nd year, than to try and learn it all in 6 weeks after my classes were over. Could I have? Probably. But the stress is so unnecessary.
 
you can do as well as you can during the first 2 years while studying board relevant material. just do your best the first two years to learn the related material. The reason i havent felt stress at all studying for boards is b/c I am not trying to cram 2 years of relevant material into 6 weeks of studying. Ive been studying it all along, so most of its not new. I feel those that are most stressed are those that do leave the board studying for after classes are over. I'm sure both types of students do fine, its just a matter of how much stress you wanna put on yourself. To me, it made a lot more sense to try and learn material over the 7 months of 2nd year, than to try and learn it all in 6 weeks after my classes were over. Could I have? Probably. But the stress is so unnecessary.

Yeah, I agree with this. I think some people are acting like studying for class and studying for boards are two mutually exclusive tasks. They aren't. I study my classes lecture notes and powerpoints, and then I augment that with the corresponding section in FA, RR, or BRS, so in effect I am studying for both class and the boards. Then on Sunday I'll spend a couple hours reviewing some of the material from previous blocks, so I don't forget it all (I worked hard to stuff it into my brain once, I don't want to let it all slip away now). I think I mentioned earlier in this thread that my school is on an organ block system, which is also how FA, RR, and BRS are setup, so this works for me. I know this doesn't apply to all med schools though. I feel like this will greatly benefit me as when it comes time to review for boards, I will be familiar with these resources and will have the notes I've added to clarify things in each.
 
the other thing is that step 1 isn't that deep..some people go in thinking questions will be like "what ligand gated channel subdomain is encoded by the Q22E3 gene" when it's more like "phenytoin acts on what kind of channels." Just try to make sure your prof isn't making you miss the forest for the treet.
 
So...M1 is almost done, and I can safely say we covered maybe 40-50% of the topics in First Aid for the classes we have taken (for example...biochem covered maybe 50% of the FA bio section..wtf)

On top of that, we don't have clinical questions, and do not emphasize diseases in biochem, immuno, etc. Maybe we'll get that in path? I hope....


Anyways, our exams are all non-board format, pretty much being stuff such as "what does this protein do" or "name the amino acid sequence in this enzyme" or "recite the krebs cycle" lmao.....


One could easily get 95+ on our class exams and know less than 50% of the board material for that subject...especially when tests focus on little details.

I'm just frustrated with my last few scores I guess...mainly because I know the clinical vignettes/material well but my school only tests on low yield facts..

End rant. Thank you!

pretty much agree.

the next question would be, is the boards a good test of the pre-clinical knowledge you should have upon entering the hospital?

if so, and class does not equal preparing us for the boards, why do we have the classes?
 
pretty much agree.

the next question would be, is the boards a good test of the pre-clinical knowledge you should have upon entering the hospital?

if so, and class does not equal preparing us for the boards, why do we have the classes?

Maybe my school and the board do not agree on what is important? IDK...gotta do both and push through lol
 
pretty much agree.

the next question would be, is the boards a good test of the pre-clinical knowledge you should have upon entering the hospital?

if so, and class does not equal preparing us for the boards, why do we have the classes?
Because, school's rely on the money-making machine that is the traditional lecture system. The traditional lecture system is not only inefficient with respect to today's alternatives, it SHOULD be nearly obsolete. I mean, with the incredible electronic media that we have, why in the hell do we have thousands of people repeating the same material countless times for no good reason?

Not only that, but my experience is that the majority of professors don't really care too much about what we "need". They teach what they want to teach. To anyone who thinks that the majority of your basic science professors really care about spending time identifying what information is board relevant or has some significant clinical relevance, I'd suggest that you have a little bit too much faith in the education system.

We DO NOT need classes. It's a silly waste of time. We should utilize the vast book and multimedia resources that we have available to us to learn material, and redefine the role of the professor. Cut class time down by 80% and make class time an interactive problem-based learning experience that is student-driven and professor guided.
 
Because, school's rely on the money-making machine that is the traditional lecture system. The traditional lecture system is not only inefficient with respect to today's alternatives, it SHOULD be nearly obsolete. I mean, with the incredible electronic media that we have, why in the hell do we have thousands of people repeating the same material countless times for no good reason?

Not only that, but my experience is that the majority of professors don't really care too much about what we "need". They teach what they want to teach. To anyone who thinks that the majority of your basic science professors really care about spending time identifying what information is board relevant or has some significant clinical relevance, I'd suggest that you have a little bit too much faith in the education system.

We DO NOT need classes. It's a silly waste of time. We should utilize the vast book and multimedia resources that we have available to us to learn material, and redefine the role of the professor. Cut class time down by 80% and make class time an interactive problem-based learning experience that is student-driven and professor guided.

My neuro class is like 40% guest lecturing PhD's showing off their fancy research 😕😕😕
 
Because, school's rely on the money-making machine that is the traditional lecture system. The traditional lecture system is not only inefficient with respect to today's alternatives, it SHOULD be nearly obsolete. I mean, with the incredible electronic media that we have, why in the hell do we have thousands of people repeating the same material countless times for no good reason?

Not only that, but my experience is that the majority of professors don't really care too much about what we "need". They teach what they want to teach. To anyone who thinks that the majority of your basic science professors really care about spending time identifying what information is board relevant or has some significant clinical relevance, I'd suggest that you have a little bit too much faith in the education system.

We DO NOT need classes. It's a silly waste of time. We should utilize the vast book and multimedia resources that we have available to us to learn material, and redefine the role of the professor. Cut class time down by 80% and make class time an interactive problem-based learning experience that is student-driven and professor guided.

enjoying your PBL, are you? :meanie:
 
I go to one of those "research" heavy schools on the East coast...One you would think would provide the ultimate preparation for students taking step 1. Nope! I have found my lectures really only covered 50% of the material being tested on step 1. Instead, most speakers come in with their own agenda, i.e., the lecture somehow takes the form of some really interesting aspect of cutting-edge research they are pursuing currently. Incredibly interesting? Yes. Relevant to my need to learn fundamental knowledge on the subject? No.

Paradoxically, I've heard from others that the seemingly "lower-tier" schools have the advantage of great board prep woven into the curriculum and people from those schools are coming out with stellar board scores. Oh, well I guess there's always trade offs in any situation. I'm really not complaining, but its an interesting observation and I guess I'm not alone in noticing it!
 
I go to one of those "research" heavy schools on the East coast...One you would think would provide the ultimate preparation for students taking step 1. Nope! I have found my lectures really only covered 50% of the material being tested on step 1. Instead, most speakers come in with their own agenda, i.e., the lecture somehow takes the form of some really interesting aspect of cutting-edge research they are pursuing currently. Incredibly interesting? Yes. Relevant to my need to learn fundamental knowledge on the subject? No.

Paradoxically, I've heard from others that the seemingly "lower-tier" schools have the advantage of great board prep woven into the curriculum and people from those schools are coming out with stellar board scores. Oh, well I guess there's always trade offs in any situation. I'm really not complaining, but its an interesting observation and I guess I'm not alone in noticing it!

you went to a research heavy school, what do you think lecturers talk about?
 
OMG, well, I know this may sound totally absurd, but I didn't come into med school knowing everything 😱 ! So going to a research heavy school doesn't mean I don't need to be learning the basics of medicine.

I was agreeing with the OP and making the observation that it is hard to weigh out the benefit of attending lecture vs. what I need to be doing to prepare for boards. And while I find research incredibly interesting (I am actively involved in several research projects right now), I don't feel I'm doing myself any favors if I don't know the rudimentary stuff. There's no point in knowing about cutting-edge treatmemt for hearing loss if I don't even know how hair cells work. Just sayin!

I love where I'm at, and thank my lucky stars for being at this school every day! Yet it doesn't mean I not frustruated that I need to spend a little extra time acquainting myself with the basics that I could've had the first time around. Time is precious in med school. And it's not like EVERY lecture was like this, but enough for me and some of my peers to notice our deficits.

From your previous posts, it sounds like your school prepared you very well in the basics. Good for you! I've had to learn a nice chuck of the material on my own, which is fine -- I just wish I could've skipped out on lectures weren't providing a solid breadth of knowledge.

But so far, I've managed to fill in missing gaps and things will be ok. Hope that helped clarify! 🙂
 
Because, school's rely on the money-making machine that is the traditional lecture system. The traditional lecture system is not only inefficient with respect to today's alternatives, it SHOULD be nearly obsolete. I mean, with the incredible electronic media that we have, why in the hell do we have thousands of people repeating the same material countless times for no good reason?

Not only that, but my experience is that the majority of professors don't really care too much about what we "need". They teach what they want to teach. To anyone who thinks that the majority of your basic science professors really care about spending time identifying what information is board relevant or has some significant clinical relevance, I'd suggest that you have a little bit too much faith in the education system.

We DO NOT need classes. It's a silly waste of time. We should utilize the vast book and multimedia resources that we have available to us to learn material, and redefine the role of the professor. Cut class time down by 80% and make class time an interactive problem-based learning experience that is student-driven and professor guided.

Wow, couldn't agree with this more. Medigrl too. I didn't know if it was like this at other schools too. guess it is, at least some of them. I go to a mid/lower tier school, btw ...

Honestly, the schools charging $45,000 without providing anything, is, i guess, a problem, but not one that bothers me too much. What bothers me is that they high-jack our time and brain's for two years to a service (memorizing random useless facts) that doesn't do anyone any good.

I'm starting to see it like this: its not the actual lecturing that's the money making machine; its the fact that medical liscensing is highly regulated/rationed; making a medical liscense a valuable asset.

Medical institutions are part-owners of this value because they control part of the liscensing procedure (you have to go to a med school, especially a u.s. one to get into a highly paid specialty.) Baisically, tuition is the school selling this scarce resource, which they did not create, but have been given under the current system.

Seen like this, medical schools (im just talking about the first two year here, havent seen third and fourth) are pretty much useless to society. In econ they'd be called rent seekers.

Fine, medicine is regulated, i think it probably should be, and its probably hard to create a perfect regulated system. I dont think its necessiraly the best system, but if med schools end up with some of the value created by limiting medical liscensing, fine. We could pay our $45,000 and go study for the boards for a year or two.

The problem, to me, is that schools are afraid to admit/let it be seen that this is what they are doing. They dont want to take the time to actually make a coherent curriculum that addresses what we will need to know as doctors. But they do want it to look like they are providing something of value. So they make us work really hard, and have voluminous syllabi and lectures and tests that require a lot of work. This way, students are too busy to realize whats going on, and its difficult for someone from the outside to see that nothing is being provided (they are giving us tens of thousands of facts after all!)

I cant prove this, but its the only way to explain what the first two years have been like that I can see. Im exagerating to make a point, I think there are some professors who try to be clear and put effort into helping us be competent clinicians. But in general, no that's not what the curriculum is about ...

end rant for now 😀
 
I swear I might have said somewhere along the lines that it's, "school dependent..."
 
I agree with people who have been saying studying for classes is studying for step 1. I have yet to "study for step 1". Yes along the way I have been using FA and Kaplan to study for my class tests, but have only done it along with what we are doing in class. My school makes us take a practice USMLE towards the end of our 2nd year. Without having done any studying for that I got the equivalent of almost 200 (and in the past people at my school usually improve their scores anywhere from 40-60 points on average for the real one after studying). So you may not think you are studying for the boards, but if you do well in classes you are going to be prepared for the boards. I would also agree with the people who said it may be worth losing a few points in classes to gain a few points on the USMLE, but at some point that switches. If you barely pass every class and are in the bottom quarter of your class having a few extra points on your step 1 isn't gonna help (even if it gives you a very good score). Even if your school "doesn't rank" or is pure pass/fail, don't think the administration doesn't know your grades and when it comes to your dean's letter to residencies I have a strong feeling it may say Jon Doe was in the bottom quarter of his class or he passed all classes, but struggled.
 
I agree with people who have been saying studying for classes is studying for step 1. I have yet to "study for step 1". Yes along the way I have been using FA and Kaplan to study for my class tests, but have only done it along with what we are doing in class. My school makes us take a practice USMLE towards the end of our 2nd year. Without having done any studying for that I got the equivalent of almost 200 (and in the past people at my school usually improve their scores anywhere from 40-60 points on average for the real one after studying). So you may not think you are studying for the boards, but if you do well in classes you are going to be prepared for the boards. I would also agree with the people who said it may be worth losing a few points in classes to gain a few points on the USMLE, but at some point that switches. If you barely pass every class and are in the bottom quarter of your class having a few extra points on your step 1 isn't gonna help (even if it gives you a very good score). Even if your school "doesn't rank" or is pure pass/fail, don't think the administration doesn't know your grades and when it comes to your dean's letter to residencies I have a strong feeling it may say Jon Doe was in the bottom quarter of his class or he passed all classes, but struggled.

Where does this strong feeling come from?
 
Where does this strong feeling come from?

The fact that my school says they do it. I can only speak for mine, but my guess is if one does it they all do. Also those exact works are not gonna be the ones used, but any residency director can read between the lines. Obviously take what I say with a grain of salt I am not on a residency committee. But if I were I definitely would not look positively on the person who failed one class, barely passed another two and was middle of the pack on the rest, but then killed their step 1. Again there is more that residency directors look at other than just some grades and step 1 scores, but I think it would stand out a little.
 
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Where does this strong feeling come from?

UIC is the same way. I was told that the dean's letter uses certain language depending on which quartile you fall into, although the school technically doesn't keep rank or quartile aside from AOA determination.

-edit- I should say that, from what I was told, the letter will only point towards strong preclinical performance (1st or 2nd quartile), not deficient.
 
The fact that my school says they do it. I can only speak for mine, but my guess is if one does it they all do.

I aked a dean at my school who writes letters specifically this question and he said unequivicoally, no, they will not mention your rank/quintile if they think it will hurt your app. am i still still worried that is not true or that it will color the dean's impression of me and affect my letter indirectly or that programs will read no mention of preclinical year grades as a negative by omission ...
 
I Even if your school "doesn't rank" or is pure pass/fail, don't think the administration doesn't know your grades and when it comes to your dean's letter to residencies I have a strong feeling it may say Jon Doe was in the bottom quarter of his class or he passed all classes, but struggled.

Our student handbok specifically states all pre clinical grades are deleted from the system and will not be used in anyway on our deans letter
 
I agree with people who have been saying studying for classes is studying for step 1. I have yet to "study for step 1". Yes along the way I have been using FA and Kaplan to study for my class tests, but have only done it along with what we are doing in class. My school makes us take a practice USMLE towards the end of our 2nd year. Without having done any studying for that I got the equivalent of almost 200 (and in the past people at my school usually improve their scores anywhere from 40-60 points on average for the real one after studying). So you may not think you are studying for the boards, but if you do well in classes you are going to be prepared for the boards. I would also agree with the people who said it may be worth losing a few points in classes to gain a few points on the USMLE, but at some point that switches. If you barely pass every class and are in the bottom quarter of your class having a few extra points on your step 1 isn't gonna help (even if it gives you a very good score). Even if your school "doesn't rank" or is pure pass/fail, don't think the administration doesn't know your grades and when it comes to your dean's letter to residencies I have a strong feeling it may say Jon Doe was in the bottom quarter of his class or he passed all classes, but struggled.



if you get a 250 on your step but you were in teh 'bottom quartile' of your class, the residencies aren't going to give a damn. And not all schools keep a ranking system for the first two years, as others have said. 100% of the rank at my school comes from teh step and 3rd year grades and evals.
 
Just weighing in regarding the dean's letter...

I took this argument to the specific dean at my school who actually writes the "Dean's Letter". She told me, flat out, that in all of the letters that come out of her office, the first two years are summed up in two sentences.

"Joe Blow, during first year received Honors in Anatomy and Neuroscience, High Pass in Cell Biology, as passed his other courses. During second year, Joe received Honors in Pathology, High Pass in Immunology, and passed his other courses."

THAT'S IT. ALL OF THE FIRST TWO YEARS IN TWO SENTENCES. Words directly from this administrator's mouth: "Just pass the first two years. Step I and third year are what matter. Your third year evals make up 90% of the letter I write."

She went on to say that, I'm paraphrasing here, most of the deans at other schools share the same feelings / practices.

I'm not saying that barely squeaking by during the pre-clinical years won't affect you come Step I time, but I AM saying that everyone in a position of authority with whom I've spoken (from my school and those involved with several competitive residencies) has universally corroborated the fact that pre-clinical grades (so long as you pass everything) mean squat.

(Sorry, I know that last sentence is obscenely long... Coffee's still kicking in). That being said, I'm off to happily obtain my pass and keep on my own board prep.
 
I agree with people who have been saying studying for classes is studying for step 1. I have yet to "study for step 1". Yes along the way I have been using FA and Kaplan to study for my class tests, but have only done it along with what we are doing in class. My school makes us take a practice USMLE towards the end of our 2nd year. Without having done any studying for that I got the equivalent of almost 200 (and in the past people at my school usually improve their scores anywhere from 40-60 points on average for the real one after studying). So you may not think you are studying for the boards, but if you do well in classes you are going to be prepared for the boards. I would also agree with the people who said it may be worth losing a few points in classes to gain a few points on the USMLE, but at some point that switches. If you barely pass every class and are in the bottom quarter of your class having a few extra points on your step 1 isn't gonna help (even if it gives you a very good score). Even if your school "doesn't rank" or is pure pass/fail, don't think the administration doesn't know your grades and when it comes to your dean's letter to residencies I have a strong feeling it may say Jon Doe was in the bottom quarter of his class or he passed all classes, but struggled.

You're putting this dichotomy in the wrong light though.

If you're studying for boards and just passing your classes, something is going very wrong and you're not going to do well on the boards since something is missing about your understanding of the material. There is usually at least a 60% overlap between boards and classes.

The perception that we test prep people are just rote memorizers and don't actually understand the material is false too. I have spent hours and hours reading about these topics outside of the review material to nail down hard topics and understand the pathophysiology of most important diseases. Studying in this mode also helps to develop links between topics in different organ systems that you might otherwise have missed.

Doing tens of thousands of questions also helps you find out what quirky or funny features of diseases are often asked about and what is important. You know what to study!

Everybody that I know that is focusing on boards is getting only honors or high passes on their classes with a rare pass here and there. I know in my heart that I could have gotten all honors if I wanted to but I have traded that off for preparation that has gotten me to my target range on multiple practice tests weeks before my dedicated study time.

If you ask me, it is a very good trade.
 
Just weighing in regarding the dean's letter...

I took this argument to the specific dean at my school who actually writes the "Dean's Letter". She told me, flat out, that in all of the letters that come out of her office, the first two years are summed up in two sentences.

"Joe Blow, during first year received Honors in Anatomy and Neuroscience, High Pass in Cell Biology, as passed his other courses. During second year, Joe received Honors in Pathology, High Pass in Immunology, and passed his other courses."

THAT'S IT. ALL OF THE FIRST TWO YEARS IN TWO SENTENCES. Words directly from this administrator's mouth: "Just pass the first two years. Step I and third year are what matter. Your third year evals make up 90% of the letter I write."

She went on to say that, I'm paraphrasing here, most of the deans at other schools share the same feelings / practices.

I'm not saying that barely squeaking by during the pre-clinical years won't affect you come Step I time, but I AM saying that everyone in a position of authority with whom I've spoken (from my school and those involved with several competitive residencies) has universally corroborated the fact that pre-clinical grades (so long as you pass everything) mean squat.

(Sorry, I know that last sentence is obscenely long... Coffee's still kicking in). That being said, I'm off to happily obtain my pass and keep on my own board prep.

I have spoken with many academic physicians at the school I'll be attending come August and they say the same thing: that the pre-clinical grades don't matter so much. Others here, however, have made good points about not blowing off those years. I think what the physicians communicated to me was that you shouldn't be *stressing* to get "Honors." i.e. If you're miserable busting your butt to meet that 90% cutoff for honors, then it's simply not worth it because so many other factors will be more heavily weighted during residency applications. At the same time, you should certainly work hard and aim to learn as much as you can, and if doing so at a level that's hard but that doesn't kill ya can get you honors, then power ot you.

~Kalyx
 
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