Studying from scratch for the MCAT - is Kaplan enough?

[projectplat]

I recently signed up for a Kaplan MCAT course. I saw an MD/PhD program that looked interesting and the MCAT was the only concrete item I had missing from the admission requirements.

Unfortunately, I haven't taken a medical science course in 10 years (since junior year in college).

Is there more to studying that isn't in the books (ie. science knowledge)? This is all quite new to me.

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[projectplat]

You people are intense on here so I expect a scathing. I'm aiming for 99%+ but have a very long way to go. I'm scared to even take a diagnostic but have to take it before class next month.

Also ---- if you know 100% of the Kaplan material and correctly reason on the exam, do you get 100%?

 

[Dr. Janitor]

Having utilized Kaplan, Princeton Review, and ExamCrackers....I found the TPR Rapid Review books to be more concise and easier to read along with the corresponding question books. I used the ExamCrackers 1001 books for each subject for extra practice questions. Didn't like Kaplan that much but to each their own. In the end it all really boils down to timing and how many practice questions you can crank out (can't stress the latter part enough).

 

[Dr. Janitor]

After reading your 2nd comment.......

 

[projectplat]

^ I'm coming from using Kaplan Schweser (CFA exams). For their CFA books, if you know 100% of the material and can correctly reason, you pass the 25-45% pass rate on the exams.

I signed up for their best program as I thought I was the most unprepared. I just hope I do not have to do more study aside from Kaplan if Kaplan is enough to get a top score.

 

[projectplat]

Having utilized Kaplan, Princeton Review, and ExamCrackers....I found the TPR Rapid Review books to be more concise and easier to read along with the corresponding question books. I used the ExamCrackers 1001 books for each subject for extra practice questions. Didn't like Kaplan that much but to each their own. In the end it all really boils down to timing and how many practice questions you can crank out (can't stress the latter part enough).

I have already signed up for Kaplan's best course. I think they require 1 diagnostic per week to ensure their quality guarantee (of having continued services if customer is not satisfied with exam score). I'll have to look into ExamCrackers. I really need all the help possible to learn this stuff.

 

[bee17]

I'm confused. You "saw an MD/PhD program that looked interesting?" Do you actually want to be a physician scientist? If so, you will need to apply to more than one program. MD/PhD programs are eight years long, and then after the program you have residency, fellowship, etc. It's not something you should just apply to on a whim.

If you are serious about this, then you should know that no prep company can guarantee to cover all MCAT material because their companies do not produce the test. You should ideally use materials from more than one company (and of course, use the AAMC materials).

 

[projectplat]

No I just need to apply to the MSTP program as far as I know. I want to be a physician scientist. It is 8 years, but all 43 programs in the US are fully funded.

I'm coming from finance. I used Kaplan Schweser for a couple chartered financial analyst exams and they had points called LOSes (Learning Outcome Statements). Kaplan covered all the LOSes and if you knew the books you were fine. I was hoping it was the same, but feared it wasn't when they label each subject as 'review'. I need to start from 101, but do not know where 101 is at this point.

I have heard of other companies for prep and am just getting a game plan together at this point (well I already paid the $2.5k to Kaplan). I hope this is not on a whim. I think this is possible but know the odds are against me.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[projectplat]

Also, I think MSTP programs consider you for the MD program if you don't get into the MSTP program. I'm not even sure that I would want to pursue an MD program on its own without it being fully paid for except for the fact that I might have 50% of a 9/11 GI bill left to pay for the MD program, but that is a bit too focused and higher risk for me.

Anyway, the deadline for this program is the first week of June for each of my target schools. So I basically have either 6 months or 18 months to prepare. I would rather it be 6 months to prepare, but if i'm not testing well I am considering a solid 18 months of prep for this (MCAT prep and softs/reco prep).

 

[bee17]

Okay, now I'm just confused. There isn't any sort of deadline in June, although you'll want to submit your AMCAS application then.

Also, you don't apply to MSTP as a singular program. In order to apply for MD/PhD programs (including MSTPs), you submit the primary AMCAS application and check the MD/PhD box for the schools you want to apply to. You will have to write two extra essays in addition to your personal statement. Once your MCAT score is in and your AMCAS app has been verified by the application service, it will be sent to the schools you selected. Most schools will then send you a secondary application with more essays (some schools may have separate MD and MD/PhD secondaries). Once schools have your secondary app and your letters of recommendation, they will either reject you or invite you to interview (this happens over several months). The whole application process is about a year long. Some schools will consider you for MD-only if you are rejected from MD/PhD, but it is usually late in the cycle by that point.

The point is, it is a long and tough process. MD/PhD programs are small (anywhere from 1-25ish per class, depending on the school). The small class size and financial incentive make these programs competitve. Successful applicants usually have higher-than-average GPAs and MCAT scores as well as significant research experience.

This is not to discourage you, but rather to let you know some details of the process. The reason I suggested applying to several schools is because of the competitiveness of these programs. If you have more questions, there is a physician scientist forum on this site.

 

[projectplat]

oh yeah you are right the deadline is late fall ... phew

I know ... I am the wildcard ... I do not have the typical background, but feel it would be a good fit.

 

[Dr. Janitor]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news....but without significant research experience, strong academics, and extracurricular's it doesn't matter if you feel like you're a "good fit" because the reality of the situation is that it takes years of preparation and hard work just to set yourself up for an opportunity to get at least an interview at an MD/PHD program. I'm not trying to be a smarta** but what you're suggesting just isn't very realistic at this point in time unless there's much more to your app than you've let on and I still can't tell if you're serious or not.

As an aside, I feel like I'd be a great fit for Sofia Vergara but the fact of the matter is...I just don't have the clout to pull it off.

 

[projectplat]

If it wasn't possible, why would I even try?

I don't see the big deal of spending 6 or 18 months of prep to submit an application for an 8 year program. I am very behind in science core knowledge but hope to persevere.

Well I received a B.S. in Business Administration, B.A. in Modern Languages (Spanish) with a Minor in East Asian studies, cum laude, elected to the Honor Court, Honors Program Graduate, Star of the West scholarship to Beijing, China through Columbia, held leadership positions, have significant volunteer work, Air Force veteran, and experience in management consulting (corporate finance) for four years at a top firm. I'm not sure which are good softs this point, but the MSTP programs stress a record of excellence. I'm a clear transplant into this industry.

My weak spots are obviously lack of science training, research, or anything like that. My goal is to prove I have the competency to achieve 99% on the MCAT as a strong indicator of my success in the MSTP. If I can't get high 90s, i'm not sure I would even apply. This is also dependent on my cGPA of 3.64 being lower than the average of 3.75 or so for these pre-med MSTP peeps. My MCAT has to level out all of those shortcomings.

Its really all or nothing for me on the MCAT.

 

[bee17]

You had better spend those 18 months in a research lab, because research background is the foundation of an MD/PhD application. One of the essays asks you to describe your most significant research experience. How will you answer?

For these programs, it is not enough to just prove your academic competency with GPA/MCAT. They also need to know that you are very serious about becoming a physician scientist and can think like a researcher. In fact, many program websites suggest at least a year (some at least two years) of hypothesis-driven research (usually bench work, although there are some social science programs). That is the bare minimum; many applicants have more than 2 years of productive research. How can you prove research competency without research experience?

Again, I'm not trying to be a downer; I just want you to go into this with a full understanding of the requirements.

 

[projectplat]

"One of the essays asks you to describe your most significant research experience. How will you answer?"

The only thing I could write about would be the behavioral psychology in different types of environments. I'm mainly interested in psychiatry/psychology. I'm not exactly sure how to gain research. Where would I start?

How do applicants have 2 years of research when most are applying senior year of undergrad? What is this - some TA position in one of their classes for bio/chem/physics?

Thanks for the help. I am trying to understand the requirements as well.

 

[bee17]

Ways that applicants get research experience: volunteer or work for a research lab during undergrad, do a summer research program, do an internship, work full time as a research assistant (after graduation), do a masters program, etc.

 

[Dr. Janitor]

It is totally possible...if you've already put in years of work or are planning to put in YEARS of work at this point in order to become a MD/PHD. The way you presented all of this is that you plan to take the MCAT w/in the next month before school started and score in 99th percentile...people with heavy science backgrounds study for 6mo-1yr+ and don't come away with that kind of score. Not that it's not possible but it's highly unlikely to obtain this level of success on a test like the MCAT especially in the timeframe you initially presented.

Secondly, as bee17 pointed out, even with all of your accomplishments you are well behind the eight ball so to speak in terms of research, volunteering, and clinical experience (shadowing) to pull this application off within a years time. All of the people I know who were accepted into MD/PHD programs had at least 1 scientific publication in undergrad, usually a honors thesis, 100+ hours of clinical experience (volunteering & shadowing), plus above average MCAT's that they spent 18 months or so studying for.

Along with bee17, I'm not trying to be pessimistic but you should understand the reality of what steps you need to accomplish prior to even applying to such a program or even a med school itself. Not to be rude but just by the way you started this whole convo with "I saw a program that looks interesting" and "all I have to do is get a 99% on the MCAT" tells me that you don't have much experience or knowledge of how the application process works or what it's going to take to bring this into fruition.

 

[projectplat]

"Along with bee17, I'm not trying to be pessimistic but you should understand the reality of what steps you need to accomplish prior to even applying to such a program or even a med school itself. Not to be rude but just by the way you started this whole convo with"I saw a program that looks interesting" and "all I have to do is get a 99% on the MCAT" tells me that you don't have much experience or knowledge of how the application process works or what it's going to take to bring this into fruition."

You're completely right. I have a long way to go... to even have a chance.

 

[mw18]

Okay, assuming you are serious and not a troll. 1st, take the mcat in a year or eighteen months. It doesn't take this long if you have dedicated study time (at least 40 hrs a week), but the mcat isn't actually the most critical thing for you. It's research experience. Spend that year in a lab or a hospital. The reason schools ask about research is because before they invest in you, they need to know you're invested. You can't know that because you don't know anything about what it is like. Also, shadow some doctors. There are plenty of PhD programs, but you're interested in Md/PhD. So find out if that's a life you can learn to love. Because you're going to spend a lot of energy on doctoring.

If you decide you want all that, then take the mcat. The aamc publishes a content outline (I'm assuming they have one for the new one). It's a list of things that could be asked. And by list I mean something that is pages long and only lists the name of concepts. Kaplan will likely introduce something that falls under all of these concepts. But the difficulty of the mcat lies in thinking. You have to learn to take the test, while at the same time having a level of familiarity that allows you to understand what is truly being asked. Plenty of people use Kaplan only. But being 99%ile or bust is likely not the best mindset. A lot of really smart people have worked incredibly hard and come up short.

But truly, best of luck. Just know there are people out there who are working insanely hard in the lab and on mcat prep. Don't think you can just steal their dream, and if you can, don't unless it really is yours, too.

 

[projectplat]

Ok - this is great feedback. I'll have to make some calls, but I might be able to pull some research positions. I saw that that research was important, but I didn't really know it was essential.

Well, I am mainly interested in neuroscience. I'm not sure how I can get research in that field. I have kind of an in with a nursing home with a friend who has locked in syndrome. He has had it for 11 years. I have basically free reign to visit 24/7 and am cool with the nurses there. Can this research be self-led? Do you think this is a good case to take on or what kind of research do people usually do in labs --- typical physics/chem/bio stuff? I even developed a communication system with this person Steve (morse code blinking), but he didn't want to use it. He at least learned S-O-S, which was something (ie. he needs more pain meds). He is somehow content to not communicate too much (he can only use his eyes and slight head movement). He watches TNT full blast non stop. Always TNT. Always super loud unless we do prayer or scripture through the very loud Bose speakers I picked up for him. So I wouldn't be able to get a whole ton of data, but could definitely provide an ongoing perspective of a person/friend in this unique and rare part of neuroscience. His journey through life and humility and spiritual fulfillment is nothing short of amazing after he lost nearly all physical functions of his body. Man, I haven't seen Steve in a minute. I hope he is doing well. It is definitely hard going in there and being in full control of the mood, conversation, monologue (slight dialogue), and trying to end on a note of positivity with near zero body language feedback from him, especially when the pain meds kick into his system.

I have a bunch of connections I might be able to use in other places - but really don't know the best type of research to do? What did you do --- was it your preferred focus for medicine in general?

 

[projectplat]

ok just sent a note to the research arm of the hospital of one of my target MSTP programs.... i'm pretty much open to anything .... maybe they can help

 

[JoeCaputo]

OP, I feel that I must ask how much you have researched the 2015 MCAT?

It is unlike any professional exam you have experience with. I am a non traditional student, coming from finance, and I always just figured the MCAT was like a CPA exam. But its a lot different.

 

[justreachforthesky]

If it wasn't possible, why would I even try?

I don't see the big deal of spending 6 or 18 months of prep to submit an application for an 8 year program. I am very behind in science core knowledge but hope to persevere.

Well I received a B.S. in Business Administration, B.A. in Modern Languages (Spanish) with a Minor in East Asian studies, cum laude, elected to the Honor Court, Honors Program Graduate, Star of the West scholarship to Beijing, China through Columbia, held leadership positions, have significant volunteer work, Air Force veteran, and experience in management consulting (corporate finance) for four years at a top firm. I'm not sure which are good softs this point, but the MSTP programs stress a record of excellence. I'm a clear transplant into this industry.

My weak spots are obviously lack of science training, research, or anything like that. My goal is to prove I have the competency to achieve 99% on the MCAT as a strong indicator of my success in the MSTP. If I can't get high 90s, i'm not sure I would even apply. This is also dependent on my cGPA of 3.64 being lower than the average of 3.75 or so for these pre-med MSTP peeps. My MCAT has to level out all of those shortcomings.

Its really all or nothing for me on the MCAT.

You do realize these are the most important things for the MD/PhD program? They can sniff out if you're just doing research to look good on an application: medical schools don't have crazy high graduation rates with competitive acceptance rates for nothing. I don't know if this guy is just trolling or not. You are going to take the MCAT on a whim? I'm just curious, what makes you want to go into medicine?

 

[aldol16]

You do realize these are the most important things for the MD/PhD program? They can sniff out if you're just doing research to look good on an application: medical schools don't have crazy high graduation rates with competitive acceptance rates for nothing. I don't know if this guy is just trolling or not. You are going to take the MCAT on a whim? I'm just curious, what makes you want to go into medicine?

Why are you reviving an old thread? Also, from the sheer number of tools I know who are in MD/PhD programs, I think that while your conception of what MD/PhD admissions should look like is idyllic and commendable, it's not what actually goes on. I would say most pre-meds I know aren't in medicine to help people. They're in it because they've either been told their whole lives that they should be doctors or because they're self-absorbed and want the prestige that goes along with it. And yet they still get in and yet they still graduate.

 

[justreachforthesky]

Why are you reviving an old thread? Also, from the sheer number of tools I know who are in MD/PhD programs, I think that while your conception of what MD/PhD admissions should look like is idyllic and commendable, it's not what actually goes on. I would say most pre-meds I know aren't in medicine to help people. They're in it because they've either been told their whole lives that they should be doctors or because they're self-absorbed and want the prestige that goes along with it. And yet they still get in and yet they still graduate.

If it's so irrelevant to you, then why are you also writing on this "old" threat? Some of us use Google to find things we are looking for rather than setting our home pages to student doctor. By the way, you lost all credibility with me when you referred to the M.D./PhD students that you supposedly know as tools. I'm sure your random and representative sample is something we all should take due note of.

 

[aldol16]

If it's so irrelevant to you, then why are you also writing on this "old" threat? Some of us use Google to find things we are looking for rather than setting our home pages to student doctor. By the way, you lost all credibility with me when you referred to the M.D./PhD students that you supposedly know as tools. I'm sure your random and representative sample is something we all should take due note of.

You're right - I should probably change my homepage settings 😉 My personal anecdotes don't add much to the point. In fact, you could imagine that I have no friends and know no MD/PhD candidates, if that floats your boat. The point is that pre-meds tend to be very good on paper and if you know how to present a resume, it's quite difficult for people to "sniff out" whether you're doing something just to look good. Your point may be true for someone who doesn't care at all about their research but most people fall in the middle of the spectrum - they care, just not that much. Those are the ones who are difficult to weed out.