Submarines to Med School

[876034]

Hello Everyone!

Just for a little bit of background:
I graduated with a B.S. in Mechanical Engineering for undergrad. While in college I was accepted into the Navy's Nuclear Engineering program, which started right after graduation. I spent about 2 years of going through the training pipeline (Officer candidate school, power school, prototype, and submarine officer basic course) and have since been working as an officer on a submarine. My obligation is coming to an end next year and I am interested in pursuing a career in medicine. I know that there are still pre-reqs I need to take but my concern comes with doing a post-bac vs DIY night courses while I finish my time in the Navy. My overall GPA was 3.69 with a major GPA of 3.81 but some of my lower level courses were relatively weak.

Gen Chem I - B
Gen Chem II - B+
Gen Psychology - A
Calc II - C+
Calc III - A
Calc IV (Diff Eq) - C+
Calc V - B+
(AP credits for physics I/II and Calc I)

Since post-bac programs require significant time and financial investment (most being a 2 year program plus an additional glide year), the DIY option seems more reasonable. However, if my weaker lower level courses will have a significant impact on my application then I would opt with the post-bac option. Given my unfamiliarity with the process, I am trying to get a better understanding on a few things:

• How much focus is placed on grades in the core classes versus my overall science GPA?
  
• Would you recommend retaking some of the weaker lower level classes?
• How much importance is placed on which university I complete my undergraduate classes at?
• For example, does it matter where I take the remaining courses so long as I perform well in the class and achieve a high score on the MCAT? Or is it preferred to see the undergraduate classes taken at a well-known university?
• What do most non-traditional applicants do about LOR from a professor if they do not do a formal post-bac? Get one from a CC professor? Does that look worse being from a CC versus a known university?
• Any recommendations on gaining clinical experience (volunteer or shadowing) if I still work 5-6 days a week?

Thank you for any responses, I truly appreciate it!

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[Siromas]

Hello Everyone!

Just for a little bit of background:
I graduated with a B.S. in Mechanical Engineering for undergrad. While in college I was accepted into the Navy's Nuclear Engineering program, which started right after graduation. I spent about 2 years of going through the training pipeline (Officer candidate school, power school, prototype, and submarine officer basic course) and have since been working as an officer on a submarine. My obligation is coming to an end next year and I am interested in pursuing a career in medicine. I know that there are still pre-reqs I need to take but my concern comes with doing a post-bac vs DIY night courses while I finish my time in the Navy. My overall GPA was 3.69 with a major GPA of 3.81 but some of my lower level courses were relatively weak.

Gen Chem I - B
Gen Chem II - B+
Gen Psychology - A
Calc II - C+
Calc III - A
Calc IV (Diff Eq) - C+
Calc V - B+
(AP credits for physics I/II and Calc I)

Since post-bac programs require significant time and financial investment (most being a 2 year program plus an additional glide year), the DIY option seems more reasonable. However, if my weaker lower level courses will have a significant impact on my application then I would opt with the post-bac option. Given my unfamiliarity with the process, I am trying to get a better understanding on a few things:

• How much focus is placed on grades in the core classes versus my overall science GPA?
  
• Would you recommend retaking some of the weaker lower level classes?
• How much importance is placed on which university I complete my undergraduate classes at?
• For example, does it matter where I take the remaining courses so long as I perform well in the class and achieve a high score on the MCAT? Or is it preferred to see the undergraduate classes taken at a well-known university?
• What do most non-traditional applicants do about LOR from a professor if they do not do a formal post-bac? Get one from a CC professor? Does that look worse being from a CC versus a known university?
• Any recommendations on gaining clinical experience (volunteer or shadowing) if I still work 5-6 days a week?

Thank you for any responses, I truly appreciate it!

• I'd highly recommend a DIY post-bacc. That's what I did while working full-time, and I'm experiencing some success in this current application cycle.
• A lot of schools don't consider your Calc courses as "core classes", so you're fine. Focus on acing the other requirements (bio/biochem/orgo/etc.)
• Don't retake anything lower than a B (grade replacement isn't a thing anymore). If you're still itching more classes after fulfilling your pre-reqs, look into upper level science classes.
• There's an applicant rating system floating around here that groups undergrad institutions into 3 groups (1. Ivies (HYP), 2. Upper Tier 3. Lower Tier). If possible, avoid taking classes at a community college (as to avoid some med schools not accepting credits), and you'll be fine.
• I got my letters from my professors while completing my DIY post-bacc. No issues so far.
• For me, 6 days of the week were filled up with a full class schedule, working full time, and MCAT prep. I volunteered at two separate hospitals on the 7th day. Difficult, but possible.

 

[Goro]

First off, many thanks for your service to our country.

How much focus is placed on grades in the core classes versus my overall science GPA?
We look at everything

• Would you recommend retaking some of the weaker lower level classes?

Nope, unless you feel you need it for MCAT.

• How much importance is placed on which university I complete my undergraduate classes at? For example, does it matter where I take the remaining courses so long as I perform well in the class and achieve a high score on the MCAT? Or is it preferred to see the undergraduate classes taken at a well-known university?

Relatively minor. The Ivies like inbreeding though. If your school is a known feeder for med schools, and you've done well there, that's a plus. But doing well is the key, wherever you are.

• What do most non-traditional applicants do about LOR from a professor if they do not do a formal post-bac? Get one from a CC professor? Does that look worse being from a CC versus a known university?

Somewhere, you need to establish a relationship with enough profs who will write you a good LOR. It doesn't matter where said profs are.

• Any recommendations on gaining clinical experience (volunteer or shadowing) if I still work 5-6 days a week?

You're going to need to be good at time mgt and carve out time to do this. But remember, it's a marathon now, not a sprint. Med schools aren't going anywhere. Also, being a veteran cuts some slack on the need for non-clinical experiences. So I recommend focusing on these more.

Not all volunteering needs to be in a hospital. Think hospice, Planned Parenthood, nursing homes, rehab facilities, crisis hotlines, camps for sick children, or clinics.

Some types of volunteer activities are more appealing than others. Volunteering in a nice suburban hospital is all very well and good and all, but doesn't show that you're willing to dig in and get your hands dirty in the same way that working with the developmentally disabled (or homeless, the dying, or Alzheimers or mentally ill or elderly or ESL or domestic, rural impoverished) does. The uncomfortable situations are the ones that really demonstrate your altruism and get you 'brownie points'. Plus, they frankly teach you more -- they develop your compassion and humanity in ways comfortable situations can't.

Service need not be "unique". If you can alleviate suffering in your community through service to the poor, homeless, illiterate, fatherless, etc, you are meeting an otherwise unmet need and learning more about the lives of the people (or types of people) who will someday be your patients. Check out your local houses of worship for volunteer opportunities. The key thing is service to others less fortunate than you.

Examples include: Habitat for Humanity, Ronald McDonald House, Humane Society, crisis hotlines, soup kitchen, food pantry, homeless or women’s shelter, after-school tutoring for students or coaching a sport in a poor school district, teaching ESL to adults at a community center, Big Brothers/Big Sisters, or Meals on Wheels.

 

[876034]

• I'd highly recommend a DIY post-bacc. That's what I did while working full-time, and I'm experiencing some success in this current application cycle.
• A lot of schools don't consider your Calc courses as "core classes", so you're fine. Focus on acing the other requirements (bio/biochem/orgo/etc.)
• Don't retake anything lower than a B (grade replacement isn't a thing anymore). If you're still itching more classes after fulfilling your pre-reqs, look into upper level science classes.
• There's an applicant rating system floating around here that groups undergrad institutions into 3 groups (1. Ivies (HYP), 2. Upper Tier 3. Lower Tier). If possible, avoid taking classes at a community college (as to avoid some med schools not accepting credits), and you'll be fine.
• I got my letters from my professors while completing my DIY post-bacc. No issues so far.
• For me, 6 days of the week were filled up with a full class schedule, working full time, and MCAT prep. I volunteered at two separate hospitals on the 7th day. Difficult, but possible.

Thank you very much for the response!

 

[876034]

First off, many thanks for your service to our country.

How much focus is placed on grades in the core classes versus my overall science GPA?
We look at everything

• Would you recommend retaking some of the weaker lower level classes?

Nope, unless you feel you need it for MCAT.

• How much importance is placed on which university I complete my undergraduate classes at? For example, does it matter where I take the remaining courses so long as I perform well in the class and achieve a high score on the MCAT? Or is it preferred to see the undergraduate classes taken at a well-known university?

Relatively minor. The Ivies like inbreeding though. If your school is a known feeder for med schools, and you've done well there, that's a plus. But doing well is the key, wherever you are.

• What do most non-traditional applicants do about LOR from a professor if they do not do a formal post-bac? Get one from a CC professor? Does that look worse being from a CC versus a known university?

Somewhere, you need to establish a relationship with enough profs who will write you a good LOR. It doesn't matter where said profs are.

• Any recommendations on gaining clinical experience (volunteer or shadowing) if I still work 5-6 days a week?

You're going to need to be good at time mgt and carve out time to do this. But remember, it's a marathon now, not a sprint. Med schools aren't going anywhere. Also, being a veteran cuts some slack on the need for non-clinical experiences. So I recommend focusing on these more.

Not all volunteering needs to be in a hospital. Think hospice, Planned Parenthood, nursing homes, rehab facilities, crisis hotlines, camps for sick children, or clinics.

Some types of volunteer activities are more appealing than others. Volunteering in a nice suburban hospital is all very well and good and all, but doesn't show that you're willing to dig in and get your hands dirty in the same way that working with the developmentally disabled (or homeless, the dying, or Alzheimers or mentally ill or elderly or ESL or domestic, rural impoverished) does. The uncomfortable situations are the ones that really demonstrate your altruism and get you 'brownie points'. Plus, they frankly teach you more -- they develop your compassion and humanity in ways comfortable situations can't.

Service need not be "unique". If you can alleviate suffering in your community through service to the poor, homeless, illiterate, fatherless, etc, you are meeting an otherwise unmet need and learning more about the lives of the people (or types of people) who will someday be your patients. Check out your local houses of worship for volunteer opportunities. The key thing is service to others less fortunate than you.

Examples include: Habitat for Humanity, Ronald McDonald House, Humane Society, crisis hotlines, soup kitchen, food pantry, homeless or women’s shelter, after-school tutoring for students or coaching a sport in a poor school district, teaching ESL to adults at a community center, Big Brothers/Big Sisters, or Meals on Wheels.

This was the exact help I was hoping to get out of the post, thank you! I will be applying to a local university and hopefully starting some classes in the Spring

 

[mk04447]

This was the exact help I was hoping to get out of the post, thank you! I will be applying to a local university and hopefully starting some classes in the Spring

NAVY... never again volunteer yourself... been there done that. Frankly, what are you looking for? Nobody gives a **** that you served, do the pre-req. classes and prove the metal meets the road. Non-service folks are afraid to tell you the truth for fear of being service racists, but I can tell you it doesn't matter; aside from having something to talk about in the interview. Get the courses done where you can, take the MCAT and do well, and you'll be fine.

 

[esob]

NAVY... never again volunteer yourself... been there done that. Frankly, what are you looking for? Nobody gives a **** that you served, do the pre-req. classes and prove the metal meets the road. Non-service folks are afraid to tell you the truth for fear of being service racists, but I can tell you it doesn't matter; aside from having something to talk about in the interview. Get the courses done where you can, take the MCAT and do well, and you'll be fine.

I do think there are people who truly don't care about service but, for fear of being labeled un-American, won't actually say it. However, I think there is also a segment that realizes there is value in the "right" former military members. Coming from the standpoint of a vet, I see it as a bonus but not some all-encompassing "a vet will always be the best for any given job" mentality. It's certainly a unique EC and I would imagine trumps handing out blankets, but it is by no means a free pass to med school.

 

[BombsAway]

I do think there are people who truly don't care about service but, for fear of being labeled un-American, won't actually say it. However, I think there is also a segment that realizes there is value in the "right" former military members. Coming from the standpoint of a vet, I see it as a bonus but not some all-encompassing "a vet will always be the best for any given job" mentality. It's certainly a unique EC and I would imagine trumps handing out blankets, but it is by no means a free pass to med school.

Agreed. At every one of my interviews I have gotten some type of screening question to determine which "kind" of veteran I am. Luckily, I have been able to read between the lines and respond appropriately.

 

[Darth Doc]

Nobody gives a **** that you served, do the pre-req. classes and prove the metal meets the road. Non-service folks are afraid to tell you the truth for fear of being service racists. Get the courses done where you can, take the MCAT and do well, and you'll be fine.

I was talking to someone who has been working to get prior service special forces medics into PA and MD programs. She said that at least one MD program (that I consider pro-military) still wants to see physician shadowing hours and volunteer hours of the same volume as every other applicant. Being military gives bonus points, but it won't count as volunteering because you were paid. (What I was told about my application when I applied. I made sure I had those hours from elsewhere.)

 

[876034]

Agreed. At every one of my interviews I have gotten some type of screening question to determine which "kind" of veteran I am. Luckily, I have been able to read between the lines and respond appropriately.

My original post was not meant to sound as if the military would be replacing volunteer/shadowing experience. I am still going to be shadowing and volunteering when available during weekday afternoons and weekends that I don't have duty. I only brought up the military to give a quick background. But now that you mentioned that it came up in all of your interviews I am curious as to what they asked and what you mean by which "kind" of veteran? Thanks for the responses, I appreciate it.

 

[BombsAway]

But now that you mentioned that it came up in all of your interviews I am curious as to what they asked and what you mean by which "kind" of veteran? Thanks for the responses, I appreciate it.

Message me in 2 years or so before you hit the interview trail

 

[esob]

The thing about military service is that I think a lot of people still view the "stereotype" of service as changing your small town slacker into this responsible human being who has been through the gauntlet and can put up with anything. For some people (myself included), that stereotype holds true. I think military service can make someone who is used to skating by into a responsible, effective and efficient machine. That said, if you come out of a post-bac with a 3.3 GPA, that "transformation event" clearly didn't happen.

 

[NightWindDriftr]

How much focus is placed on grades in the core classes versus my overall science GPA?

My school considers both in separate categories. Weakness in one is expected to be offset by strength in the other. I'm of the opinion that core is more important than overall sGPA because upper-division sciences vary among applicants.

Would you recommend retaking some of the weaker lower level classes?

I wouldn't. It would be very low-yield.

How much importance is placed on which university I complete my undergraduate classes at?

The importance isn't very big, but it's not negligible either. Brand name schools are generally better viewed.

For example, does it matter where I take the remaining courses so long as I perform well in the class and achieve a high score on the MCAT? Or is it preferred to see the undergraduate classes taken at a well-known university?

The obviously preference is the well-known university where you perform well and score well on the MCAT. If you're setting up this dichotomy, the former will be the better option. Better to have better grades than a "better school". Best to reach for both.

What do most non-traditional applicants do about LOR from a professor if they do not do a formal post-bac? Get one from a CC professor? Does that look worse being from a CC versus a known university?

If you have to pick, get the letter writer who teaches at the U. Otherwise, no real difference and not worth the extra effort.

Any recommendations on gaining clinical experience (volunteer or shadowing) if I still work 5-6 days a week?

Can you gain clinical experience in your work? Or, work where you can gain clinical experience? If not, dedicate that free day to getting the experience. I'll also add this: I recommend (and personally prefer) volunteering to shadowing. Get both, but volunteer more. Also, not all volunteering can be considered clinical experience, and that's fine. Shadowing, in my opinion, definitely does not constitute experience unless the physician you're shadowing is letting you touch patients, which would be highly unusual.

Good luck to you. If you have any questions, you're welcome to PM me. I am also a veteran and I'm happy to share my insights with you.