Submission vs Accepted vs Published

[sexycani]

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the lab i work in is currently getting ready to publish our paper on which i am second author

i am applying in june and most probably it wont be accepted by then.
is a submission still worth mentioning? does it count?

 

[tremulousNeedle]

All of the activities on AMCAS are subjectively reviewed. When you list the research, definitely mention that you coauthored a submitted paper, publication pending. If the paper gets accepted you can always send an update with your secondary application (or even after that, if it gets accepted or published after secondaries). In the grand scheme of things, this one factor won't make or break a solid applicant.

-admissions committee interviewer / senior medical student

 

[sexycani]

so will i classify this as a "publication" on my activities?
i mean we are a very reputable lab and the paper will ofcourse eventually gets published

 

[tremulousNeedle]

so will i classify this as a "publication" on my activities?
i mean we are a very reputable lab and the paper will ofcourse eventually gets published

I wouldn't be presumptuous and label it something that is currently not true. If something unexpected happens and you get asked about a publication that hasn't been published, that could be very bad for you.

 

[TheSimple]

Label it "Second Author Manuscript (Submitted)" that way you are truthful and it will most certainly look good on your application. Also, if the paper gets sent back for minor tweeks then you put (In Revision), which looks better then submitted. It might be cutting it close to get comments on the manuscript back within time, but some journals are quicker than others.

Accepted>In Revision>Submitted


Hope this helps

 

[fMRI]

"Submitted" doesn't mean anything. Theoretically you could, as first and only author, submit your homework the Lancet, the New England Journal of Medicine or Nature -- if you see what I mean.

If your application is otherwise well rounded, I would leave it out. You could later use this as a reason to send an update. If you already mentioned it before, it's not really news either.

More important is the academic reputation of the journal where you hope to publish. There is a hierarchy (roughly reflected by impact points). Keep that in mind, too. A publication in an average journal isn't as impressive as a well-known and respected journal.

Until it's officially "accepted" or at least "under revision", I would leave it out.

Good luck!

 

[drizzt3117]

"Submitted" doesn't mean anything. Theoretically you could, as first and only author, submit your homework the Lancet, the New England Journal of Medicine or Nature -- if you see what I mean.

If your application is otherwise well rounded, I would leave it out. You could later use this as a reason to send an update. If you already mentioned it before, it's not really news either.

More important is the academic reputation of the journal where you hope to publish. There is a hierarchy (roughly reflected by impact points). Keep that in mind, too. A publication in an average journal isn't as impressive as a well-known and respected journal.

Until it's officially "accepted" or at least "under revision", I would leave it out.

Good luck!

Disagree. You're going to mention your research experience, regardless. As a premed, any publication is significant, because the vast majority of premeds won't have any.

You can list the authors, title, then (submitted to X) as a citation on AMCAS. Also, it's very possible a manuscript will be accepted in a month, just depends on the reviewers.

 

[tremulousNeedle]

Disagree. You're going to mention your research experience, regardless. As a premed, any publication is significant, because the vast majority of premeds won't have any.

You can list the authors, title, then (submitted to X) as a citation on AMCAS. Also, it's very possible a manuscript will be accepted in a month, just depends on the reviewers.

I second this. What the MD/PhD student above says only really applies to the medical schools that place a heavy emphasis on research and publications (those schools are the minority by far). While publications can help any applicant, they are unlikely to make or break you at less research intensive schools.

-admissions committee interviewer / senior medical student

 

[TheSimple]

I have to disagree with you. One of my friends put a journal as submitted on his amcas and it worked out fine for him. I think it shows that you have put forth more effort then the average undergrad in the lab. Granted its taken with a bit of skepticism. When I was applying to MSTPs this past cycle I had a first author manuscript in revision and it was never viewed as a negative.

 

[sexycani]

okay so i should not make it a separate thing on my activities but just include it with my research?

im guessing that only when it is accepted i can put in under "publication" as its own space?

 

[mdeast]

I was in the same position last year. I had a published abstract on my project, which I listed, but just mentioned "I am in the process of submitting a paper of which I will be first author." My paper ended up getting rejected the first time around (haha, my advice... do not try for a super high tier journals unless you're super confident in your work and you think it's high impact...being an undergrad at a small LAC I definitely did not have the street cred to get my paper through til the end), but no one asked me about it at interviews. I recently resubmitted to Developmental Neuroscience and was accepted, and I updated schools on this.

But, to be honest, they just want to see you took a really active role in the process. Even knowing that your the first author on a submitted paper proves that a bit more. Having an accepted paper further confirms the quality of your efforts, so that is certainly a plus. You can update them later if you're lucky enough to get in that position.

 

[mdeast]

okay so i should not make it a separate thing on my activities but just include it with my research?

im guessing that only when it is accepted i can put in under "publication" as its own space?

I wouldn't even put a publication as a separate space to begin with. You want each activity category on your AMCAS to be very "meaty". You should easily fill those 15 slots, so you'll want to combine things together to make sure each activity seems more substantial, demonstrates commitment. I'd rather see...a detailed explanation of your research and role, a brief list of your research presentations/posters, and your submitted publications in one box than have it spread out over three. Makes that one activity look better.

 

[sexycani]

actually i was thinking that since i had a poster that was already presented and pretty much the paper will follow the story told on the poster, i could make a separate slot for the poster (classified under posters and presentations) and then mention the upcoming paper?

 

[MaryLennox]

I think it's worth mentioning. it may not be accepted now, but it may very well be by the time you are interviewing. thats what happened to me. it was great for me to be able to say, at my december Rush interview:

interviewer: so, your research project, bla bla bla?
me: our manuscript actually just got accepted for publication yesterday!

it gave my interviewer a chance to be excited for me, and she made a note of it on my file. if you just send it via an update, who knows whether it will get lost in the shuffle? (of course if you don't have interviews looming, then definitely update . . . but it makes a good conversation point in interviews that you have coming up.)

good luck getting published!

 

[sexycani]

so heres the dealio:

1. one pub from lab#1 has been accepted and is in press. Thus i will put the full citation (authors, title, journal, year) and put "(In Press)" in the end.

2. one pub from lab#2 has been submitted. I will put full citation and "(Submitted)" in the end

3. two pubs from lab#2 are in progress. I will put partial citation (author, title) and put "(Manuscript in Progress)"

Question: Which one(s) of the above would I put as a "Publication" on my app under activities?

 

[Frazier]

so heres the dealio:

1. one pub from lab#1 has been accepted and is in press. Thus i will put the full citation (authors, title, journal, year) and put "(In Press)" in the end.

2. one pub from lab#2 has been submitted. I will put full citation and "(Submitted)" in the end

3. two pubs from lab#2 are in progress. I will put partial citation (author, title) and put "(Manuscript in Progress)"

Question: Which one(s) of the above would I put as a "Publication" on my app under activities?

I would put #1 and #2 under the publications category. Just MAKE SURE to have that important qualifier obvious (i.e. "submitted - pending/in review"). It will depend on the individual adcom how much weight is given to the submitted manuscript. But, as long as it is clearly labeled, it will not hurt.

The ones that were merely in progress are not something I could imagine any adcom finding appropriate for the publications category -- stick them in the general research category (or whatever its called).

 

[jsh52]

so heres the dealio:

1. one pub from lab#1 has been accepted and is in press. Thus i will put the full citation (authors, title, journal, year) and put "(In Press)" in the end.

2. one pub from lab#2 has been submitted. I will put full citation and "(Submitted)" in the end

3. two pubs from lab#2 are in progress. I will put partial citation (author, title) and put "(Manuscript in Progress)"

Question: Which one(s) of the above would I put as a "Publication" on my app under activities?

Ok, you shouldn't do that. If you don't know if the paper is ultimately going to be accepted to said journal, you should not list the journal. I may put pending manuscripts in my personal statement or under another area, but not under the publications section. If they are "Accepted" or actually in publication, definitely. Otherwise, no...

 

[sexycani]

what if #2 is in "revision" (like the journal accepts but just wants some revisions done)?

 

[random cell]

Submitted or in revision or in review or in review 2 or in review 100 doesn't mean anything and it certainly does NOT count as published.

Even if it is ACCEPTED it is still not PUBLISHED. It is only ACCEPTED. Until it comes out in print or online it is not published and you do NOT have a publication.

Any random person can submit to a journal and say they have something "submitted." Therefore it does not count for much, but you should still mention it. Just don't expect it to count for much if anything.

Also, an abstract does not count as a publication. It is an abstract. A short paragraph that sometimes doesn't even need data or only has preliminary data. This is leagues away from what a publication is.

In my lab one guy came in as a PhD student with 4 publications listed, all first author. Our PI was impressed. A month into working it was clear to everyone this guy was a complete joke. Turn out he listed 4 ABSTRACTS as PUBLICATIONS on his CV. We had good laughs with the PI about this at his expense. Then he was kicked out of the lab and is now searching desperately for another lab to take him, although word is he's just going to leave because his name is now tarnished for a foolish move. Then we had more laughs. The end.

 

[random cell]

so heres the dealio:

1. one pub from lab#1 has been accepted and is in press. Thus i will put the full citation (authors, title, journal, year) and put "(In Press)" in the end.

2. one pub from lab#2 has been submitted. I will put full citation and "(Submitted)" in the end

3. two pubs from lab#2 are in progress. I will put partial citation (author, title) and put "(Manuscript in Progress)"

Question: Which one(s) of the above would I put as a "Publication" on my app under activities?

Ignore everyone else except fMRI, jsh52 and my advice.

1. Yes this is acceptable. Does not count as a publication, but you can put in press. Make sure you're not violating any disclosure agreements though.

2. No, submitted means nothing. Also if it's not accepted or published how do you even have a "citation?" You don't. This counts as a publication as much as my 4th grade book report does. Not a publication.

3. In progress means even less than in review. Not publication.

The solution? Send updates. AFTER it is published send an update. This will make you look good and unlike 99% of the other people who send updates yours will actually mean something.

 

[random cell]

Disagree. You're going to mention your research experience, regardless. As a premed, any publication is significant, because the vast majority of premeds won't have any.

You can list the authors, title, then (submitted to X) as a citation on AMCAS. Also, it's very possible a manuscript will be accepted in a month, just depends on the reviewers.

I hope this post is a joke because it is terribad advice. Again, this is not a publication. It is like me saying I have a motorcycle when I only have a bicycle. It will make you look like a desperate joke.

Also I am confused how you people write citations for something not even published...authors then title, then journal you submitted to? Not a citatio dude.

And a month for acceptance....gives me enough lols for the rest of the week! Super rare and unless you have a really breakthrough discovery, its not gonna happen in a month. And these are usually in the form of communications or letters. Don't wait, submit your app early, then update them later.

 

[vickpick]

lol, I love when people ask questions with their minds already made up.

 

[jsh52]

I hope this post is a joke because it is terribad advice. Again, this is not a publication. It is like me saying I have a motorcycle when I only have a bicycle. It will make you look like a desperate joke.

Also I am confused how you people write citations for something not even published...authors then title, then journal you submitted to? Not a citatio dude.

And a month for acceptance....gives me enough lols for the rest of the week! Super rare and unless you have a really breakthrough discovery, its not gonna happen in a month. And these are usually in the form of communications or letters. Don't wait, submit your app early, then update them later.

👍

We submitted 2 weeks ago to Journal of Neuroscience and it's still "under review" and will remain so for quite some time (we are pretty sure we avoided an editorial rejection, so that's one hurdle cleared!). Meanwhile, we will anticipate changes they want us to make, so we are ready to shoot back a final draft when we hear back.

It is better to be honest and not to try and make something out a non-publication and just send updates. That's what I am doing. I will list what I've got at the time I submit my AMCAS, ignoring that I have two additional manuscripts which I will be submitting in early summer. And trying to pass off abstracts as a publication is completely lame lol. I have about a million of them and MAYBE I will list all of them under ONE activity, but not pass them off as a publication.

 

[random cell]

👍

We submitted 2 weeks ago to Journal of Neuroscience and it's still "under review" and will remain so for quite some time (we are pretty sure we avoided an editorial rejection, so that's one hurdle cleared!). Meanwhile, we will anticipate changes they want us to make, so we are ready to shoot back a final draft when we hear back.

It is better to be honest and not to try and make something out a non-publication and just send updates. That's what I am doing. I will list what I've got at the time I submit my AMCAS, ignoring that I have two additional manuscripts which I will be submitting in early summer. And trying to pass off abstracts as a publication is completely lame lol. I have about a million of them and MAYBE I will list all of them under ONE activity, but not pass them off as a publication.

This guy knows what he is talking about. 👍 I would heed his advice OP, but like vickpick said...

lol, I love when people ask questions with their minds already made up.

It seems like your mind was already made up when you posted.👎

 

[bobow98]

I applied in June, and said my paper was submitted. My work was accepted in late June for publication as a coauthor, and then I updated my schools if the secondary allowed. I also emailed some schools I really wanted interviews at in August informing them my work was available on pubmed online as an Epub ahead of print and forwarded them the address to find the work. This may have helped me get a few additional interviews, but maybe not. It's not a huge deal but it did help a little I'm sure.

 

[drizzt3117]

I hope this post is a joke because it is terribad advice. Again, this is not a publication. It is like me saying I have a motorcycle when I only have a bicycle. It will make you look like a desperate joke.

Also I am confused how you people write citations for something not even published...authors then title, then journal you submitted to? Not a citatio dude.

You're not listing it as a publication or citing something that's indexed on pubmed, you're simply including information about a manuscript you submitted as a research experience. As an admissions committee menber, I think that's information I'd find useful in evaluating someone's candidacy for the purposes of medical school admission. Clearly it's not enough evidence to cite it as a reference on a manuscript, but probably the equivalent of "unpublished data"

And a month for acceptance....gives me enough lols for the rest of the week! Super rare and unless you have a really breakthrough discovery, its not gonna happen in a month. And these are usually in the form of communications or letters. Don't wait, submit your app early, then update them later.

It depends on your field. In technical fields such as medical physics/radiology it's certainly possible to have manuscripts accepted in a month, especially in very specialized journals (i.e. American Journal of Neuroradiology). A lot of it depends on the timing of your submission vis a vis major conferences, etc. and the schedule of the specific reviewers.

Furthermore, you are allowed to list citations (and they'll be indexed on pubmed) as soon as a doi # is assigned, if the journal in question e-publishes their material, which most journals do.

 

[random cell]

You're not listing it as a publication or citing something that's indexed on pubmed, you're simply including information about a manuscript you submitted as a research experience. As an admissions committee menber, I think that's information I'd find useful in evaluating someone's candidacy for the purposes of medical school admission. Clearly it's not enough evidence to cite it as a reference on a manuscript, but probably the equivalent of "unpublished data"

It depends on your field. In technical fields such as medical physics/radiology it's certainly possible to have manuscripts accepted in a month, especially in very specialized journals (i.e. American Journal of Neuroradiology). A lot of it depends on the timing of your submission vis a vis major conferences, etc. and the schedule of the specific reviewers.

Furthermore, you are allowed to list citations (and they'll be indexed on pubmed) as soon as a doi # is assigned, if the journal in question e-publishes their material, which most journals do.

What are you even talking about here? It has nothing to do with what you posted initially. Initially you said:

You can list the authors, title, then (submitted to X) as a citation on AMCAS. Also, it's very possible a manuscript will be accepted in a month, just depends on the reviewers.

So again, if you're not accepted or published, which is the case of this author how do you have a DOI? Answer is you don't. How can you have a "citation?" Answer is you can't. Just admit you were wrong dude, stop trying to backtrack and write stuff everyone agrees on like "e-pub papers get a DOI." Or that the OP should include this on their app. No really? Everyone agrees on that. They are asking if it should be a publication or not, and anyway you twist it, it is not.

 

[drizzt3117]

What are you talking about? I never said it counts as a publication. I just said to list it on AMCAS with the title, authors, etc. along with research experience and where you submitted it to, because that information is useful. Nowhere in my post did I say that it's a publication or that it carries the same weight as an accepted or published paper. I think you misinterpreted my original post. I was making two points in response to the previous poster, who was apparently trying to say that impact factor was important for premeds and that the submission shouldn't be mentioned at all.

IMO, impact factor is essentially irrelevant for premeds as any pub is good, and the the OP should list the submitted paper with the author, title, and journal that you submitted it to under research experiences. You could disagree and say that instead of listing the "citation" one could simply describe the research but I would do both <shrug>. I routinely see NIH biosketches with lists of accepted and submitted publications on them, fwiw.

What are you even talking about here? It has nothing to do with what you posted initially. Initially you said:

So again, if you're not accepted or published, which is the case of this author how do you have a DOI? Answer is you don't. How can you have a "citation?" Answer is you can't. Just admit you were wrong dude, stop trying to backtrack and write stuff everyone agrees on like "e-pub papers get a DOI." Or that the OP should include this on their app. No really? Everyone agrees on that. They are asking if it should be a publication or not, and anyway you twist it, it is not.

 

[sexycani]

okay, what if the manuscript (that was submitted) has been ACCEPTED after revisions which we are currently working on? i could then put it as a publication, right?

(refer to Stanford's secondary prompt where they say to write all our publications--including those that have been accepted)

 

[random cell]

okay, what if the manuscript (that was submitted) has been ACCEPTED after revisions which we are currently working on? i could then put it as a publication, right?

(refer to Stanford's secondary prompt where they say to write all our publications--including those that have been accepted)

If it is accepted then you should put the title, authors, etc. and in parentheses or something note that it is accepted. Once it is published, you have a publication. Again you should not wait 3 months to turn in your app for a publication. There is this thing called e-mail where you can update schools. I guess for Stanford it's different since you can't update your app unless you get invited for an interview, but in most cases it's not worth it.

 

[sexycani]

do you guys think it makes sense to put the citation of a manuscript in preparation in AMCAS after providing the research description, and say that it is in prep and will be submitted in late 2011? (so its part of the same activity, "Research Experience," and not separate)

Would this be "wrong"?

 

[mauberley]

do you guys think it makes sense to put the citation of a manuscript in preparation in AMCAS after providing the research description, and say that it is in prep and will be submitted in late 2011? (so its part of the same activity, "Research Experience," and not separate)

Would this be "wrong"?

If it's under your Research activity, I think it's fine. It would only be misleading if you put it under its own Publication heading when it hasn't even been accepted for publication yet.

 

[Frazier]

do you guys think it makes sense to put the citation of a manuscript in preparation in AMCAS after providing the research description, and say that it is in prep and will be submitted in late 2011? (so its part of the same activity, "Research Experience," and not separate)

Would this be "wrong"?

Your post is a little confusing, so I will take a broad stab at the topic (keep in mind I may miss the mark you are setting).

How would you make a citation for a manuscript that hasn't even been completely written yet?
The talk in this thread concerns a gray area (IMO) of if an already prepared and submitted manuscript is relevant to the "publications" category, in which case, if properly and clearly designated as "submitted", I feel it is relevant. Maybe the "heavy-duty" research PhD/MD programs may think of it as inappropriate, but I imagine that MD programs will be more receptive. If an adcomm doesn't agree, no problem, they can ignore that citation and/or categorize it in their own mind as they see fit.

However, what you describe should clearly be confined to the "research experience" category - say that the manuscript is being prepped. Certainly don't mention this in the pubs category.

 

[sexycani]

exactly...im NOT putting it in the publication activity as a separate entity but I am including it at the end of the research activity description...

this is just to show the committee that i contributed significantly to the work

plus, since the paper will be submitted later this summer, chances are it could be accepted even before i interview or shortly thereafter...
thus i definitely want to mention it on some area of my app

(in fact, there are three such manuscripts on which i am an author that are almost done and will be submitted in the fall....i will list all three of them)

anybody else have thoughts on this?

 

[pfaction]

I also have a small question.

I have been working in 3 labs for over a year now. Small work, nothing big, but I am slowly getting involved in them. However, there will be no publications at all. I have had my name acknowledged in a thesis and hopefully one of their papers that get published will have my name in the acknowledgement section. Won't this look very bad? There are no real opportunities for me to get my name in a paper as when I arrived most of them were finishing their work up and I merely made formulations and stuff. That was about two months. The rest of the time I was doing maintainence work on cell lines and such. With the new influx I am now setting up a cell culture project for incoming graduates in one lab, continuing work in the other labs. Once again there will be no publications with my name on it unless I convince the professor otherwise.

So what can I possibly do in this situation? Let's say my name was put on the paper and it was submitted and I had my interview a month later, judging by this topic I wouldn't put it under publications, I would put that in another section, or bring it up. But I think the fact that I have been in 3 labs with 0 publications will look very, very bad. Can I make the most of this somehow?