Radio silence post-secondary submission

[Futuredoc2026A]

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So, I've submitted my secondaries for 25 schools in August and September but haven't heard back anything (no interview invites) and I'm starting to feel anxious as we head into the new year. Have about 7 rejections but the remainder is has been quiet. About me:
- Undergrad GPA: 3.1 ; Post-bac gpa: 3.8
-MCAT: 508
-800 Research hours ; 1 publication
- Shadowing: 80 hours
-Clinical Hours: 508 at time of application (2000 projected )
-Non-clinical Volunteering: 624
- Leadership: 200 hours
-URM, low-income from CA; not from a Spanish-speaking household but had to use it in my clinical experiences, went to T5 undergrad notorious for grade deflation
- 1 IA second-year:
As a first-generation student, I felt immense pressure to succeed and honor my parents’ sacrifices, but my unstructured study habits and reluctance to seek help led to inconsistent grades and declining confidence. The situation came to a head during the pandemic when I was suspended for an academic integrity violation. I take full responsibility for my mistake, and that moment forced me to confront not only my actions but the person I wanted to become. Returning from suspension, I was committed to breaking the cycle of self-doubt and failure. I developed disciplined study routines, actively sought support, and held myself accountable for my progress. I also began mentoring other students on academic integrity, transforming my experience into a source of guidance for others. After graduation, I completed a rigorous postbaccalaureate program, excelling in medical school–level courses. This academic turnaround reinforced my confidence and prepared me for the demands of medical school. Most importantly, I learned to view failure not as a flaw but as a tool for growth.

 

[LelouchLamperouge]

Did you want specific feedback on your profile? Or advice about whether to plan for a reapp or not? Not quite sure what you're looking for. You posted and didn't ask any follow up questions. Also, post your school list. That would be helpful as well.

 

[Futuredoc2026A]

Sorry yes, I would love some more feedback so i can improve my app if I were to reapply next year. Was wondering if all hope was lost at this point.
School list:

Charles R. Drew/UCLA (rejected)
Howard University
Meharry Medical College
Morehouse School of Medicine
Wayne State (rejected)
EVMS
Wright State Boonshoft
University of Illinois – Chicago
Drexel
Jefferson
Penn State
New York Medical College
George Washington University
Loyola University Chicago Stritch
Chicago Medical School (Rosalind Franklin) - rejected
Cooper Medical School (Rowan)
Oregon Health & Science University
Virginia Commonwealth University (VCU)
Saint Louis University
University of Louisville
University of Oklahoma
Wake Forest
Boston University
SUNY (esp. Upstate or Downstate)
Tufts (already submitted)
UC Riverside
UC Irvine
UC San Diego
Emory
Albert Einstein
UC San Francisco (UCSF)

 

[LelouchLamperouge]

I count at least 10 schools that are either much higher than your stat range, some are very OOS unfriendly, and some are considered low-yield. As for CA, if you have no ties to the IE, then UCR was also a donation. How did you make your school list? Did you get advice from anyone or did you do it on your own? Did you consider applying DO to maximize your chances?

 

[Futuredoc2026A]

I used a combination of Admit.org, guidance from my postbacc advisor, and MSAR to develop my school list, and I applied broadly in an effort to maximize my chances. I did not apply to any DO programs. Given that this was my second MCAT attempt, with an approximately 9-point improvement, would it be reasonable to assume that I may need to apply again next cycle? In the meantime, I would appreciate any advice on steps I should be taking. I am currently working full-time as an EMT in the state where my postbacc is located.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

We don't have your application, so being clear with your purpose as a physician and mission fit are essential for getting invited to interview. I applaud your MCAT improvement, but you should show an improvement in your writing (including a new personal statement, as per most admissions professionals' opinions).

If you are from a low-SES California community, the rejection from Charles Drew is telling me your purpose insufficiently addressed the challenges of community health that they and the HBCU medical schools are dedicated to addressing. I appreciate your story of overcoming your academic demons, but I get no sense how that shapes your actions or preprofessional competencies towards becoming a physician.

I do think you might do better with DO schools including Western and the Arizona DO schools. Throw in an application to the newer MD and DO schools that just opened mid-cycle.

 

[Med Ed]

It is very reasonable to assume that you will have to reapply. What is your state of residence?

As for advice:
1. Look into getting your IA expunged.
2. If you do reapply, shadow a DO and apply to some DO schools.

 

[polymerization]

Some thoughts as I read your profile: I wonder if the work you would have to do to be competitive for an MD cycle would be worth it to you...

The IA definitely holds you back, too: there are whispers that some schools will screen you out for having one (UCLA comes to mind).

From my own experience this cycle, being URM/FGLI no longer offers the kind of forgiveness it used to. The current administration has actively torn down DEI initiatives within universities, and my guess is that this will dramatically reduce URM/FGLI matriculation in the short-term, even if schools are still desperately trying to skim the cream off the top of those populations.

I imagined that someone at Harvard would read my application, fall in love with me, say "to hell with the rules" and send an owl to my house with an II...expeditiously! The sad reality is that your application is reduced to a single score and ranked in a formulaic manner, no matter how holistic they claim to be. How they score can differ, but don't expect crazy surprises given how truly impressive a subgroup of ~1000 students can really be at any given school. The advice I got on my school list here was pretty accurate, even if I doubted it as I entered the cycle.

If you're an MD or die trying kind of person (which, hey, I hear you and understand)—you've got a lot of work to do. More hours, better writing, a better MCAT score, more time/interpretive distance from your IA will help you. That said, it might take you several years to pull together an application that competes with other non-traditional students (for scale, I applied with 18,000 clinical hours and still only ended up with one acceptance). Do with that what you will.

In my opinion, reapplying would not be advisable, since the admissions landscape gets more competitive every year... Apply DO now and let this be a run-of-the-mill tough decision you had to make in order to move forward. It beats sacrificing more of your time, effort, and self-esteem at the altar of medicine in the hopes that maybe, someday, you will be "good enough." You already are.

 

[LelouchLamperouge]

I used a combination of Admit.org, guidance from my postbacc advisor, and MSAR to develop my school list, and I applied broadly in an effort to maximize my chances. I did not apply to any DO programs. Given that this was my second MCAT attempt, with an approximately 9-point improvement, would it be reasonable to assume that I may need to apply again next cycle? In the meantime, I would appreciate any advice on steps I should be taking. I am currently working full-time as an EMT in the state where my postbacc is located.

We don’t have your full application, so we can’t fully understand how your purpose as a doctor aligns with what certain medical schools are setting out to do. Fit matters the most.

I do think your IA will hold you back, especially since it was an academic one. I agree with the post above that you should try to get it expunged. Oftentimes, those IAs take years to work off and show improvement. Also, if the paragraph above is what you wrote to explain your IA, I would say that it wasn’t a great way to explain your IA and the actionable steps you took to improve. You simply said, “My parents put pressure on me…I had a few bad grades…I locked in and started to find better study habits…now I teach others the things I learned.” How did you learn? What steps did you take to get there? What do you take from that experiences to show schools that you can handle the rigor of medical school?

I see that you said you didn’t apply DO. Why not? Is it MD or bust? That mindset is okay. If so, you have a lot more work to do. Is your goal to simply become a physician and get started on that goal as soon as possible? If so, then apply to some DO schools as it’s still possible to get accepted and begin next Fall.

 

[Futuredoc2026A]

We don’t have your full application, so we can’t fully understand how your purpose as a doctor aligns with what certain medical schools are setting out to do. Fit matters the most.

I do think your IA will hold you back, especially since it was an academic one. I agree with the post above that you should try to get it expunged. Oftentimes, those IAs take years to work off and show improvement. Also, if the paragraph above is what you wrote to explain your IA, I would say that it wasn’t a great way to explain your IA and the actionable steps you took to improve. You simply said, “My parents put pressure on me…I had a few bad grades…I locked in and started to find better study habits…now I teach others the things I learned.” How did you learn? What steps did you take to get there? What do you take from that experiences to show schools that you can handle the rigor of medical school?

I see that you said you didn’t apply DO. Why not? Is it MD or bust? That mindset is okay. If so, you have a lot more work to do. Is your goal to simply become a physician and get started on that goal as soon as possible? If so, then apply to some DO schools as it’s still possible to get accepted and begin next Fall.

I’m not sharing this out of defensiveness, but rather to provide context. I received feedback from both post-baccalaureate and undergraduate pre-med advisors who felt that my writing was strong and had minimal suggestions regarding its quality. My statement opens by describing my initial exposure to the healthcare system through a loved one’s illness, then connects this experience to my broader “archetype” and activities. These include clinical, research, and volunteer work centered on advocacy and education for underserved populations, as well as my long-term goal of caring for patients within the same specialty as the illness that first inspired me.

At the moment, I'm contemplating another MCAT attempt/reapplication cycle or applying to a few DO schools before the new year. Any thoughts?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I said...

Throw in an application to the newer MD and DO schools that just opened mid-cycle.

 

[AsclepiusAdvisingLLC]

So, I've submitted my secondaries for 25 schools in August and September but haven't heard back anything (no interview invites) and I'm starting to feel anxious as we head into the new year. Have about 7 rejections but the remainder is has been quiet. About me:
- Undergrad GPA: 3.1 ; Post-bac gpa: 3.8
-MCAT: 508
-800 Research hours ; 1 publication
- Shadowing: 80 hours
-Clinical Hours: 508 at time of application (2000 projected )
-Non-clinical Volunteering: 624
- Leadership: 200 hours
-URM, low-income from CA; not from a Spanish-speaking household but had to use it in my clinical experiences, went to T5 undergrad notorious for grade deflation
- 1 IA second-year:
As a first-generation student, I felt immense pressure to succeed and honor my parents’ sacrifices, but my unstructured study habits and reluctance to seek help led to inconsistent grades and declining confidence. The situation came to a head during the pandemic when I was suspended for an academic integrity violation. I take full responsibility for my mistake, and that moment forced me to confront not only my actions but the person I wanted to become. Returning from suspension, I was committed to breaking the cycle of self-doubt and failure. I developed disciplined study routines, actively sought support, and held myself accountable for my progress. I also began mentoring other students on academic integrity, transforming my experience into a source of guidance for others. After graduation, I completed a rigorous postbaccalaureate program, excelling in medical school–level courses. This academic turnaround reinforced my confidence and prepared me for the demands of medical school. Most importantly, I learned to view failure not as a flaw but as a tool for growth.

Rebranding on a re-application is incredibly important. You have enough time between now and May to engage in new experiences, and submit a primary application as early as possible so that you may tackle secondaries without a delay. Applying early is essential, but so is taking the time to rewrite your application to describe how much you have grown in the past year. If you have an IA, your description of this event can make or break your application.

 

[Goro]

I used a combination of Admit.org, guidance from my postbacc advisor, and MSAR to develop my school list, and I applied broadly in an effort to maximize my chances. I did not apply to any DO programs. Given that this was my second MCAT attempt, with an approximately 9-point improvement, would it be reasonable to assume that I may need to apply again next cycle? In the meantime, I would appreciate any advice on steps I should be taking. I am currently working full-time as an EMT in the state where my postbacc is located.

As of right now, you are rejected, and should be working on Plan B.

As a reinventor, and with a below average MCAT score, it was a mistake to not have DO schools on your list. Beggars can't be choosy.

What community do you represent? And please don't say "San Diego".

Getting suspended for an IA is out of the ordinary. You may have to put some time between the infraction and a reapp.

 

[PickaGodnPray]

My statement opens by describing my initial exposure to the healthcare system through a loved one’s illness, then connects this experience to my broader “archetype” and activities. These include clinical, research, and volunteer work centered on advocacy and education for underserved populations, as well as my long-term goal of caring for patients within the same specialty as the illness that first inspired me.

I want to open by saying I am not criticizing your story or path to medicine when I say anything below, I have just seen a lot of essays helping my undergrads in professional school apps.
Your writing may be good, even excellent, but your story could be cookie cutter from what I can tell. 95% of people applying to medicine have experience in healthcare from a family member's condition which has made them initially want to pursue medicine. The problem is, while this story doesn’t differentiate you from other candidates, it also doesn’t tell me anything about you. It’s not a struggle you had to overcome. There will be applicants with their own personal stories about health disparities or challenges they had to overcome from systemic or environmental racism. I get you also expanded it, but be careful as those storylines can tend to lean towards explaining why you are a good fit for medicine rather than why you want to go into medicine.
Overall, take the advice above about adding the new MDs or some DO if you are open to it. That IA is definitely hurting you, so add more baseline stat schools and remove some of those reaches. Also get more eyes on your essays, sometimes premed advisors are not the best as they have so many other students on their plate as well. Seeing you got no love at Wayne or other schools with a focus on underserved healthcare makes me think you may be able to improve upon the narrative that you tell.

 

[Futuredoc2026A]

As of right now, you are rejected, and should be working on Plan B.

As a reinventor, and with a below average MCAT score, it was a mistake to not have DO schools on your list. Beggars can't be choosy.

What community do you represent? And please don't say "San Diego".

Getting suspended for an IA is out of the ordinary. You may have to put some time between the infraction and a reapp.

I had the IA sophomore year during the pandemic (2020) and since then my grades have improved particularly in my senior year and post-bacc. Also, I'm from LA. In hindsight, it definitely was a bad move to only apply MD schools. I will apply to the new MDs and DOs. Thank you all for the advice !

 

[Goro]

I had the IA sophomore year during the pandemic (2020) and since then my grades have improved particularly in my senior year and post-bacc. Also, I'm from LA. In hindsight, it definitely was a bad move to only apply MD schools. I will apply to the new MDs and DOs. Thank you all for the advice !

Ok, what ethnicity are you?

 

[Futuredoc2026A]

Ok, what ethnicity are you?

First-generation African. My mother holds a master’s degree, and my father has a professional degree but has been unemployed since middle/high school.

 

[Goro]

First-generation African. My mother holds a master’s degree, and my father has a professional degree but has been unemployed since middle/high school.

I suggest that you rewrite all all essays and have multiple eyeballs vet them.

Also, can you fill out a WANC form?

What exactly was the IA that got you suspended?

 

[Med Ed]

My statement opens by describing my initial exposure to the healthcare system through a loved one’s illness, then connects this experience to my broader “archetype” and activities. These include clinical, research, and volunteer work centered on advocacy and education for underserved populations, as well as my long-term goal of caring for patients within the same specialty as the illness that first inspired me.

I have read this exact statement hundreds of times. For someone with an otherwise strong app (and no IA) it's a perfectly inoffensive and instantly forgettable formula.

Given that you are coming from a weaker starting position, you may be better served making your personal statement more personal. As a first generation African who was raised in a low income household (with an educated but unemployed father) who made it to a T5 undergrad, there have to be more interesting things for you to discuss. Things that could make an adcom root for your success and go to bat for you.

 

[Futuredoc2026A]

I suggest that you rewrite all all essays and have multiple eyeballs vet them.

Also, can you fill out a WANC form?

What exactly was the IA that got you suspended?

This was an online general chemistry quiz. During the exam, I was in a small group chat where some students shared answers. There were multiple group chats across the class, and a large portion of students ended up engaging in similar behavior. After the initial review of the quiz, the group chats were identified, and everyone involved, including myself, was suspended.

MY WAMC:

1. cGPA 3.20, AMCAS sGPA 3.22 (gpa from 1st yr to postbacc: 3.24, 2.67, 2.94, 3.41, 3.8)
2. MCAT Attempt #1: 499 (125 C/P; 124 CARS; 125 B/B; 125 P/S) | ATTEMPT #2: 508 (128; 125; 127; 128)
3. Los Angeles, California
4. First-generation African
5. T5 undergrad
6. Clinical experience: Nonvolunteer - 508 hours as a spanish-speaking medical assistant at time of application; 2080 projected due to full-time job as an EMT during gap year
7. Research experience: Cardiac Surgery Lab (60 hours); Ob/Gyn and Public Health Lab (200 hours); Neurology clinical trial (200 hours and 1 publication); Hospitalist Research (400 hours)
8. Shadowing experience: Cardiology (80 hours); Primary Care (40 hours)
9. Non-clinical volunteering: Low-income high achieving Youth Summer Camp Counselor (565 hours) ; PREP/SHPEP summer coordinator (312 hours)
10. Leadership :Ethnic Affinity Group leadership (120 hours), Service club leadership (120 hours), Religious group leadership (65 hours)
    1. Gap Year: Full time emt job (2080 projected hours)
11. No honors or awards

 

[Med Ed]

This was an online general chemistry quiz. During the exam, I was in a small group chat where some students shared answers. There were multiple group chats across the class, and a large portion of students ended up engaging in similar behavior. After the initial review of the quiz, the group chats were identified, and everyone involved, including myself, was suspended.

Did you share your own answers or use answers that were shared by others? Or were you just a bystander in the chat?

 

[Futuredoc2026A]

Did you share your own answers or use answers that were shared by others? Or were you just a bystander in the chat?

I did share answers in the group chat. During the initial review of the quiz, the professor and TAs identified students who had copied answers. After speaking with those individuals, my name was mentioned as part of the group chat. When my quiz was reviewed, they saw that my earlier responses matched those of others in the chat, but that I later changed my answers, and my final submitted responses were not the same as theirs.

 

[Med Ed]

I did share answers in the group chat. During the initial review of the quiz, the professor and TAs identified students who had copied answers. After speaking with those individuals, my name was mentioned as part of the group chat. When my quiz was reviewed, they saw that my earlier responses matched those of others in the chat, but that I later changed my answers, and my final submitted responses were not the same as theirs.

If this is how you described your IA on your application then you are doing yourself more harm than good. Most of your verbiage is aimed at deflecting and minimizing rather than taking accountability.

You were in a small group chat where some students shared answers. You avoided saying that you actively participated until I prodded you.

A lot of other students did the same. Irrelevant.

You changed answers after sharing them. Also irrelevant.

I’m not pointing this out to be judgmental. I firmly believe that poor choices do not equate to poor character, and that we all have lessons to learn the hard way.

Your best path forward with this is still expungement, which will allow non-disclosure in the future.

 

[Goro]

If this is how you described your IA on your application then you are doing yourself more harm than good. Most of your verbiage is aimed at deflecting and minimizing rather than taking accountability.

You were in a small group chat where some students shared answers. You avoided saying that you actively participated until I prodded you.

A lot of other students did the same. Irrelevant.

You changed answers after sharing them. Also irrelevant.

I’m not pointing this out to be judgmental. I firmly believe that poor choices do not equate to poor character, and that we all have lessons to learn the hard way.

Your best path forward with this is still expungement, which will allow non-disclosure in the future.

And if expungement doesn't work, you are going to have to own this.

 

[Futuredoc2026A]

If this is how you described your IA on your application then you are doing yourself more harm than good. Most of your verbiage is aimed at deflecting and minimizing rather than taking accountability.

You were in a small group chat where some students shared answers. You avoided saying that you actively participated until I prodded you.

A lot of other students did the same. Irrelevant.

You changed answers after sharing them. Also irrelevant.

I’m not pointing this out to be judgmental. I firmly believe that poor choices do not equate to poor character, and that we all have lessons to learn the hard way.

Your best path forward with this is still expungement, which will allow non-disclosure in the future.

Oh no, that was not how I described it in my app. It was:
In the [x] Quarter of 2021, I made the regrettable decision to cooperate with others in cheating on a General Chemistry III quiz. During the disciplinary process, I came to understand that cheating affects not only the individuals involved but also the credibility of the university. At the time, I was overwhelmed by a sense of losing control over my academics and other areas of my life. I wrongly believed that cheating would alleviate that pressure and improve my academic standing. I fully accept responsibility for my actions and sincerely apologize for the poor judgment I demonstrated. Cheating was a breach of trust toward my professors, classmates, and myself, and I deeply regret having compromised the values I now understand to be essential to my education and character.

Medicine is built on trust and accountability, as physicians are entrusted with patients’ lives and critical decisions. Reflecting on my actions made me recognize that I could not pursue medicine without holding myself to the highest ethical standards. This experience became a defining moment in shaping the person and physician I strive to be: accountable, honest, and committed to ethical growth.

Since then, I have focused on rebuilding my integrity and personal accountability. In my role as a Program Assistant, I hosted a workshop for high school students focusing on developing skills to recognize and alleviate stress before it escalates, and we discussed the serious implications of cheating and the importance of academic honesty. This experience reinforced my commitment to ethical conduct an helped me grow into a more responsible and self-aware individual, dedicated to fostering integrity in myself and others.

 

[LelouchLamperouge]

At the time, I was overwhelmed by a sense of losing control over my academics and other areas of my life.

This is non-specific. Next time you write it, talk about what you felt like you were losing control over.

I wrongly believed that cheating would alleviate that pressure and improve my academic standing. I fully accept responsibility for my actions and sincerely apologize for the poor judgment I demonstrated.

Are apologizing to the medical school here? I don’t think you need this.

Cheating was a breach of trust toward my professors, classmates, and myself, and I deeply regret having compromised the values I now understand to be essential to my education and character.

Medicine is built on trust and accountability, as physicians are entrusted with patients’ lives and critical decisions. Reflecting on my actions made me recognize that I could not pursue medicine without holding myself to the highest ethical standards. This experience became a defining moment in shaping the person and physician I strive to be: accountable, honest, and committed to ethical growth.

So, a moment where you got caught for cheating served as the inflection point for you to become a physician with those qualities? I think that you were trying to connect the idea that “doctors need integrity” with your mistake and how you grew to gain that integrity, rather than actually how you grew and learned from it.

Since then, I have focused on rebuilding my integrity and personal accountability. In my role as a Program Assistant, I hosted a workshop for high school students focusing on developing skills to recognize and alleviate stress before it escalates, and we discussed the serious implications of cheating and the importance of academic honesty. This experience reinforced my commitment to ethical conduct an helped me grow into a more responsible and self-aware individual, dedicated to fostering integrity in myself and others.

This is good. These are the actionable steps that you took to improve and how you show others the lessons you learned. Your reflection on yourself and your IA should be communicated through these experiences.

 

[Faha]

What are your cGPA and sGPA including your post bacc?

 

[Med Ed]

Oh no, that was not how I described it in my app. It was:
In the [x] Quarter of 2021, I made the regrettable decision to cooperate with others in cheating on a General Chemistry III quiz. During the disciplinary process, I came to understand that cheating affects not only the individuals involved but also the credibility of the university. At the time, I was overwhelmed by a sense of losing control over my academics and other areas of my life. I wrongly believed that cheating would alleviate that pressure and improve my academic standing. I fully accept responsibility for my actions and sincerely apologize for the poor judgment I demonstrated. Cheating was a breach of trust toward my professors, classmates, and myself, and I deeply regret having compromised the values I now understand to be essential to my education and character.

Medicine is built on trust and accountability, as physicians are entrusted with patients’ lives and critical decisions. Reflecting on my actions made me recognize that I could not pursue medicine without holding myself to the highest ethical standards. This experience became a defining moment in shaping the person and physician I strive to be: accountable, honest, and committed to ethical growth.

Since then, I have focused on rebuilding my integrity and personal accountability. In my role as a Program Assistant, I hosted a workshop for high school students focusing on developing skills to recognize and alleviate stress before it escalates, and we discussed the serious implications of cheating and the importance of academic honesty. This experience reinforced my commitment to ethical conduct an helped me grow into a more responsible and self-aware individual, dedicated to fostering integrity in myself and others.

You left out some important details. Was the incident pre-planned and coordinated, or more spontaneous? What was the disciplinary outcome?

A standard IA description formula:
1. Here's what I did.
2. Here's the fallout.
3. Here's my remorse and accountability.
4. Here are the steps I've taken to wring something positive out of the experience.

 

[RagingBolt34]

FWIW, I have a similar academic dishonesty IA and received a rejection from Penn State over a month ago. I also have 4 interviews this cycle so far. So I think your application may be more competitive than you think given that some of the schools on your list have been rejecting people and you haven't been rejected yet. It does seem like you applied to many low-yield schools and with the IA alongside that it would be very difficult to get an interview to those. I figure this is more of an issue of school list and being a CA resident rather than necessarily weak app since CA residents do honestly have it unreasonably difficult.