Submit early vs Higher MCAT

[fatalerror]

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Greetings,

First of all, I'd just like to say that I'm kind of ashamed to ask this question because the obvious answer is, why not both? Secondly, I already had my heart set on re-taking the MCAT, and the reason I'm even asking this question is because everyone seems to be second guessing me. So, I decided to ask the following question to at least get some more input from people who probably know more about the American system than me (I'm not American, think of beavers, igloos and blubber).

So the story goes like this (I already posted some of this in another thread some time earlier), I have a 30Q MCAT (relatively balanced), with a lowish GPA for American med schools (as a result of my first 2 years) . I always thought that I should re-take the MCAT a) because I think I can do better b) because with the current stats I have no shot anyway to get anywhere in the US early application or not. So the plan was to take it in may-jun, but work/family issues might push it back slightly.

but,

Most people/friends I interact with (some people on this board too), tell me that unless I get a 34-35 +, there is no point of re-writing it because whatever increase in score I get, it will be negated by the fact I won't be in the first batch. Their advice would be just to submit early and broadly (my stats aren't that bad according to some). Now, I have got pretty high scores on test MCAT's but it's no sure thing as with any test.

Any insight on this? I know it's silly, but I suppose making an informed (even if stupid) decision is better than just winging it and hoping for the best.

Thanks

 

[coolnad17]

How late would you take the MCAT?
How low is your GPA?
Where do you want to apply?
How is the rest of your application?
Are you applying to US schools as a Canadian or as an American?
If you are Canadian, what is your MCAT breakdown and are applying to Canadian schools?

Retaking the MCAT is a little risky in your case. If you were consistently scoring higher than a 30 on your practice tests and ended up with a 30 on the actual thing, then i'd consider retaking it because you may have had a bad day. If you were averaging a 30 on your practice tests after studying for 3-5 months, is another month of studying really going to get you to a much higher score?

Anyway, answer the questions above...it kinda' depends on your overall application. If a 30 will suffice, then no need to risk it.

Late applications will really hurt you in the US...and i'm speaking from experience. A 30 in June, in my opinion, will get you much better results than a 33-34 in September/October. But again, it depends on the rest of your application and where you're applying.

 

[fatalerror]

How late would you take the MCAT?
How low is your GPA?
Where do you want to apply?
How is the rest of your application?
Are you applying to US schools as a Canadian or as an American?
If you are Canadian, what is your MCAT breakdown and are applying to Canadian schools?

Retaking the MCAT is a little risky in your case. If you were consistently scoring higher than a 30 on your practice tests and ended up with a 30 on the actual thing, then i'd consider retaking it because you may have had a bad day. If you were averaging a 30 on your practice tests after studying for 3-5 months, is another month of studying really going to get you to a much higher score?

Anyway, answer the questions above...it kinda' depends on your overall application. If a 30 will suffice, then no need to risk it.

Late applications will really hurt you in the US...and i'm speaking from experience. A 30 in June, in my opinion, will get you much better results than a 33-34 in September/October. But again, it depends on the rest of your application and where you're applying.

1) Well, depending on my work and family situation (I'm older) which is in flux,but no later than early to mid july, the plan is to have everything submitted already around mid August.

2) I'm not sure how each school calculates it, do they count summers?(which killed my GPA). Overall with everything, it's 3.4.

3) Well, that's part of the problem, I have no idea if any American school will even consider me. If I was American, I'd have a better idea, but Canadians are considered "internationals" by American schools or does it vary?

4) That's kind of subjective, but I have research, volunteer work, leadership and the like.

5) I'm Canadian, things work differently here, and my low cGPA doesn't kill me as much in some schools which take a look at top 2 years (not easy in any case though). I'' probably take the MCAT anyway because some schools take only the top mcat score here, so nothing to lose, the question is only about the American system, I don't know if I should wait for a new score, or just apply with the 30Q I have now and use the new score for only the Canadian application (which is much later, no rolling here I believe for most schools)

6)Yes applying to Canadian schools and American 9-PS 11-V 10-BS actual score. In practice the PS varies from 10-13, verbal is usually 10-13, BS-10-12.But again, it's not so much the MCAT as about if it's worth it if let's say I get a 33-35Q (which I would be very very happy with) being fully complete around mid, even late (worst case hopefully) august or fully complete with a 30Q in June. I know a little about how the process works from Lizzy, who helped me a lot, but perhaps some schools start looking earlier than others at applications. Than there is always the possibility I might do worse... But really, the question boils down to 30Q in June, vs 33-35 in August (best case), and if I even have a shot (this is obviously very subjective).

 

[vin5cent0]

3.4/30 is definitely workable. Apply early

 

[coolnad17]

You will take a hit as an international student, however, there are some Canadian friendly schools out there. Check here for those names. Also, look at the premed101 forum's American section for people in a similar position as you.

US schools do consider summers...most Canadian schools do not (I did my undergrad in Canada, applied to both Canadian and US med schools). There is some info about GPA calculations here.

In my opinion...and I am no expert, a 3.4/30 for an international student will not be an easy ride through this application process in the US. I think a late application...even if you score a 32-34 may not be worth the handicap. Submit early. Apply to the low- to mid-tier schools that accept Canadians...and MAYBE even consider the DO option as a final resort. Check this thread for people that have been accepted to US schools from Canada (start towards the end with more recent posts)

If you retake the MCAT for Canadian schools, study hard and make sure you're completely ready before you take the test. You can probably retake it as late as the end of August because Canadian schools are not rolling.

Sorry about my long, winded post(s). Essentially, I do not think waiting for the score and submitting by late August is worth it. Get your application in EARLY and work with what you have.

Good luck with the application process!

 

[anavistas]

I don't mean to hijack th OP's thread, but I have the same question. I'm aware there is no exact answer to this question but is it possible to give a more quantitative answer like is june the last safe date to take MCAT or early july is still ok ....something like that.
I'm not sure is it correct or not but I'm thinking since very few international students apply, and probably they are filed differently, maybe applying late doesn't hurt that much(?).

 

[fatalerror]

You will take a hit as an international student, however, there are some Canadian friendly schools out there. Check here for those names. Also, look at the premed101 forum's American section for people in a similar position as you.

US schools do consider summers...most Canadian schools do not (I did my undergrad in Canada, applied to both Canadian and US med schools). There is some info about GPA calculations here.

In my opinion...and I am no expert, a 3.4/30 for an international student will not be an easy ride through this application process in the US. I think a late application...even if you score a 32-34 may not be worth the handicap. Submit early. Apply to the low- to mid-tier schools that accept Canadians...and MAYBE even consider the DO option as a final resort. Check this thread for people that have been accepted to US schools from Canada (start towards the end with more recent posts)

If you retake the MCAT for Canadian schools, study hard and make sure you're completely ready before you take the test. You can probably retake it as late as the end of August because Canadian schools are not rolling.

Sorry about my long, winded post(s). Essentially, I do not think waiting for the score and submitting by late August is worth it. Get your application in EARLY and work with what you have.

Good luck with the application process!

Wow, reading that site didn't make me feel better, looks like I'm dead in the water with my stats and being a Canadian.

By the way, if I submit everything early for American schools, without indicating that I plan to re-write the MCAT (use my current score), will they know if I take it again (and hold my application even if I don't want them to)? Because someone said they do, and they will hold, even if you don't indicate anything (and don't want them to do it).

 

[dingyibvs]

3.4/30 is definitely workable. Apply early

Don't give crap advice if you don't know what you're talking about. 3.4/30 has a very low shot, especially as a Canadian, unless you have something special in your application or you're an URM.

Applying in August is not late, if you mean sending in your secondaries by then. Most secondaries don't become available until July, so you'd still be among the earlier batch if you submit them in mid-August. By mid-September it starts to hurt you, and October can be safely called late.

 

[coolnad17]

Wow, reading that site didn't make me feel better, looks like I'm dead in the water with my stats and being a Canadian.

By the way, if I submit everything early for American schools, without indicating that I plan to re-write the MCAT (use my current score), will they know if I take it again (and hold my application even if I don't want them to)? Because someone said they do, and they will hold, even if you don't indicate anything (and don't want them to do it).

Hey,

Didn't mean to make you feel that way. Do some research, see how much success other applicants have had in similar situations. Thats probably the best way to know how good your chances are. Don't give up hope, just work with what you have. Make sure your Personal Statement and LORs are solid though...and apply to a good chunk of low- to mid-tier schools that will take Canadians.

I'm not sure how AMCAS treats pending MCAT scores if you haven't told them about it. Maybe some else could clarify that. Or maybe you can call up AMCAS.

Anyway, if you're serious about applying to American schools, start doing your research NOW on which schools you have a shot at and go from there.

Finally, this is my opinion...others will have their own. Mine is based on the fact that I applied VERY late this past cycle and it definitely hurt me. So i'm a huge advocate of applying as early as possible. Especially in your case as a higher MCAT score is no guarantee and 2-3 points may not really help significantly if your application is delayed 2.5-3 months.

Good Luck!

 

[Asyouwereatrio]

I don't mean to hi-jack the thread here, but is applying to Canadian medical schools extremely competitive? From my understanding, some schools do not even require an MCAT, so my assumption is that they have fewer metrics for comparing students and thus accept only the "cream of the crop"?

Ironically enough, the OP is trying to get into a school here whilst I'm trying to get into UToronto or McGill...haha.

To answer your question though, use those stats and apply EARLY and BROADLY. Take the time to polish that personal statement that'll attract the adcoms and you'll be set. All you need is a 2ndary and an interview and you'll be golden, eh?

 

[coolnad17]

I don't mean to hi-jack the thread here, but is applying to Canadian medical schools extremely competitive? From my understanding, some schools do not even require an MCAT, so my assumption is that they have fewer metrics for comparing students and thus accept only the "cream of the crop"?

Ironically enough, the OP is trying to get into a school here whilst I'm trying to get into UToronto or McGill...haha.

To answer your question though, use those stats and apply EARLY and BROADLY. Take the time to polish that personal statement that'll attract the adcoms and you'll be set. All you need is a 2ndary and an interview and you'll be golden, eh?

I'm not sure about McGill, but U of T is pretty hard to get into. You need a pretty well rounded application with a very high GPA. They do calculate GPA differently, so make sure you look up those specifics.

I don't know if Canadian schools are more competitive (they may be) per say, but they're looking for different criteria. For example, some schools have strict cut offs...so if you do not meet the cutoffs, they won't look at you at all...but meeting the cutoffs will almost guarantee you an interview. If they have a writing cutoff of Q, and you get a 42P, your application will be worthless. Whereas a person with a 32Q may get an interview. This is just an example, not all schools operate in the same way though.

Good luck

 

[SweetRain]

With a 30, I wouln't retake it at the risk of applying late. But given that you are Canadian, I don't want to make any decisions for you.
If you are certain that you can do better, why not apply next cycle? That way you can enhance your ECs and maybe your GPA by taking some of the easier courses.

I know a year seems a long way, but I don't think it's really a big deal. Best of luck.

 

[Asyouwereatrio]

I'm not sure about McGill, but U of T is pretty hard to get into. You need a pretty well rounded application with a very high GPA. They do calculate GPA differently, so make sure you look up those specifics.

I don't know if Canadian schools are more competitive (they may be) per say, but they're looking for different criteria. For example, some schools have strict cut offs...so if you do not meet the cutoffs, they won't look at you at all...but meeting the cutoffs will almost guarantee you an interview. If they have a writing cutoff of Q, and you get a 42P, your application will be worthless. Whereas a person with a 32Q may get an interview. This is just an example, not all schools operate in the same way though.

Good luck

I've got a 32R and 3.8 cGPA and 3.9 sGPA..so I think I'm good to go with respect to GPA...I'm also fairly well-rounded with respect to extracirriculars (hospital experience, community service, leadership)--I'm just lacking on the shadowing part.

Good luck to everyone here and the OP with the application cycle!

 

[jturkel]

30 and 3.4 is low for a US student. for an international student, it is quite low and like stated above, unless you are a URM or found the cure for cancer, it will be rather difficult to get in.

regarding canadian schools, there are good schools there that are quite competitive. i recall interviewing at Boston University and my host's roommate was from Canada......his top choice was UT (university of toronto) and he didn't get in and ended up going to BUSM....which is not exactly a pushover school either.

 

[jturkel]

and to answer the OP's question, I would retake it.

I've applied early with a lower MCAT. This year, I reapplied later (submitted August, approved by AMCAS in September) and then everything turned out fine. Applying late WILL hurt your chances at some schools, but won't make an acceptance to a US Allopathic school impossible by any means.

 

[MossPoh]

30 and 3.4 is low for a US student. for an international student, it is quite low and like stated above, unless you are a URM or found the cure for cancer, it will be rather difficult to get in.

regarding canadian schools, there are good schools there that are quite competitive. i recall interviewing at Boston University and my host's roommate was from Canada......his top choice was UT (university of toronto) and he didn't get in and ended up going to BUSM....which is not exactly a pushover school either.

I had lower in both and am not a URM and got into a US MD with it. Submit your primaries and study to retake. I've had friends that got interviews at places before the retake and other schools that hold off to see on the new score. If you submit early and then schedule a retake for a month or two later it can balance out both of those. Really though, the extra time may or may not yield a higher score. If you get a 30+ and have a strong upward trend with grades, strong ECs, good LORs and a solid personal statement then you will get interviews at places.

 

[fatalerror]

I don't mean to hi-jack the thread here, but is applying to Canadian medical schools extremely competitive? From my understanding, some schools do not even require an MCAT, so my assumption is that they have fewer metrics for comparing students and thus accept only the "cream of the crop"?

Ironically enough, the OP is trying to get into a school here whilst I'm trying to get into UToronto or McGill...haha.

To answer your question though, use those stats and apply EARLY and BROADLY. Take the time to polish that personal statement that'll attract the adcoms and you'll be set. All you need is a 2ndary and an interview and you'll be golden, eh?

Hehe, again, it seems to be split between those who are suggesting to apply, and those are suggesting taking the MCAT again. I am by no means afraid of taking it again, just wanted to know if there is a benefit in doing so and applying somewhat later, I did notice that people with lower stats get in much easier if apply very early (but I'm Canadian, hence the dilemma, does it work the same way?).

A few of my friends are at U of T med school, it has a hellish curriculum compared to other schools, so be ready . It has the most "American" style application process of the schools I know. That is Canadian schools have hard cutoffs, and usually all you need to do is reach them and you get an interview, not U of T. It's more fuzzy, you can't get lower than an 8 on any section, but my friend got a 9 in verbal and got in.

But, back to my question. If I decide to apply early with my score and write the mcat later for peace of mind, will the schools find out if I don't notify them? That is if I don't want them to wait and hold my application and use my current score.

But yeah, it seems people are split on this even here, my nightmare is that I wait till july 8 or 16, take the MCAT, not feel good about it, void, and apply with my current score way too late. But that's my fault. Decisions, decisions. I could also apply early, and write the MCAT later (just in case I don't get in), but I think they will hold off looking at the application even if want them to just look at my current scores.

 

[fatalerror]

and to answer the OP's question, I would retake it.

I've applied early with a lower MCAT. This year, I reapplied later (submitted August, approved by AMCAS in September) and then everything turned out fine. Applying late WILL hurt your chances at some schools, but won't make an acceptance to a US Allopathic school impossible by any means.

Wait, so you applied in the last cycle early with a lower MCAT and did not get in? And when you say low, do you mean 30? Could there have been other problems besides your GPA and MCAT, just curious?

To MossPoh, you are American though I assume, but do you mean some schools won't wait for the second score (kind of odd)? Like I said I could apply early and write the MCAT later, but I've been told they won't even really look at my app until they get the second score.

 

[coolnad17]

I had lower in both and am not a URM and got into a US MD with it.

Wait, so you applied in the last cycle early with a lower MCAT and did not get in? And when you say low, do you mean 30? Could there have been other problems besides your GPA and MCAT, just curious?

OP, make sure that the poster above was also Canadian (he may not be). Being American, and having residency in particular states is extremely beneficial...and would make it easier to get in with lower stats than yours. The same may not apply to you as a Canadian. Also, MossPoh may just have a brilliant application overall.

OP, you need to email/call a few of the schools you intend on applying to in order to find out what they'll do if you retake your MCAT but want them to look at your application before that score comes out.

Get started on your application and start studying for your MCAT. You do not have to make this decision today but if you do decide to apply early, you want to be ready to go.

In the end, the decision is yours. Everybody on here has differing opinions about the admissions process and gives advice accordingly. There is no way to predict the outcome exactly. You just have to take all the FACTS into consideration and decide to the best of your ability. Worst case scenario...if things don't work out this application cycle, you solidify all aspects of your application in the next year and take another shot at it.

By the way...do you think you'll hit the cutoffs for UWO, Queens and Ottawa? You did say that your last two years GPA was good.

Good Luck

 

[Asyouwereatrio]

Hehe, again, it seems to be split between those who are suggesting to apply, and those are suggesting taking the MCAT again. I am by no means afraid of taking it again, just wanted to know if there is a benefit in doing so and applying somewhat later, I did notice that people with lower stats get in much easier if apply very early (but I'm Canadian, hence the dilemma, does it work the same way?).

A few of my friends are at U of T med school, it has a hellish curriculum compared to other schools, so be ready . It has the most "American" style application process of the schools I know. That is Canadian schools have hard cutoffs, and usually all you need to do is reach them and you get an interview, not U of T. It's more fuzzy, you can't get lower than an 8 on any section, but my friend got a 9 in verbal and got in.

But, back to my question. If I decide to apply early with my score and write the mcat later for peace of mind, will the schools find out if I don't notify them? That is if I don't want them to wait and hold my application and use my current score.

But yeah, it seems people are split on this even here, my nightmare is that I wait till july 8 or 16, take the MCAT, not feel good about it, void, and apply with my current score way too late. But that's my fault. Decisions, decisions. I could also apply early, and write the MCAT later (just in case I don't get in), but I think they will hold off looking at the application even if want them to just look at my current scores.

In response to your concern, I sincerely think that if you applied early and broadly, and show a sincere interest in medicine in your application, you'll be looked at.

If money isn't an issue, apply BROADLY to schools everywhere...hope for the best, and if not, try again next year after writing the MCAT again. Best of luck to you!

I also don't think you would be able to get around the whole.."retaking the MCAT and having them see it without you telling them" type of thing...if you're going to retake it for sure, then be up front with them. Otherwise, apply early with your score, but be prepared for whatever outcome.

I'd like to add...only write the MCAT once again if you KNOW you can get a SIGNIFICANTLY better score (at least 2-3 points...more like 3+)

 

[jturkel]

Wait, so you applied in the last cycle early with a lower MCAT and did not get in? And when you say low, do you mean 30? Could there have been other problems besides your GPA and MCAT, just curious?

yes. my first cycle, i applied in june. my mcat was lower than 30.....27...all 9's. but i had a solid GPA (3.88) at the time. so my LizzyM score was about a 65, which is similar to yours now (3.4x10 + 30 = 64). I know for a fact my MCAT kept me out after speaking with several dean's at schools i applied to and got rejected to (though i didn't exactly apply smartly... my school selection was not the most ideal for my MCAT/GPA, though i still didn't get into my state school) . I retook the mcat, albeit rather late (studied all summer after graduating, took MCAT on like Aug 4th or 5th)...got my MCAT results, submitted, and AMCAS approved in September. Applying late this yr certainly hurt my chances at some schools, but not all. But I also seriously improved my score (had mono when i studied/took the test originally)...so it would depend on what you get on a retake.

 

[fatalerror]

I appreciate all the comments. But I just wanted to say, the notion of applying early and writing the MCAT later wasn't to try some trick. I was just thinking of applying early and re-writing the MCAT again in case for next year (an an emergency measure). But the problem is, they will hold my application if I re-write it, that's kind of a problem because it would mean I wouldn't be able to write another MCAT until the application process is done.

I'm not rich, but I can apply to 10-15 schools, Asyouwereatrio.

To jturkel, I see, I think if you would have got 29 you would have been in ( an an American), it was probably the difference between your GPA and MCAT score that threw them off. I appreciate your input.

 

[coolnad17]

I appreciate all the comments. But I just wanted to say, the notion of applying early and writing the MCAT later wasn't to try some trick. I was just thinking of applying early and re-writing the MCAT again in case for next year (an an emergency measure). But the problem is, they will hold my application if I re-write it, that's kind of a problem because it would mean I wouldn't be able to write another MCAT until the application process is done.

I'm not rich, but I can apply to 10-15 schools, Asyouwereatrio.

Do you know this for a fact? If you apply in June and wait till the end of July to register for the August MCAT, they'll still hold your application?

You may want to contact the med schools/AMCAS directly. Or maybe someone with some experience can provide some input.

 

[fatalerror]

Do you know this for a fact? If you apply in June and wait till the end of July to register for the August MCAT, they'll still hold your application?

You may want to contact the med schools/AMCAS directly. Or maybe someone with some experience can provide some input.

No, I think they would fine out when the actual score comes out, not when you register. So basically, they would see the score when you get it, and might consider the fact they weren't notified you are re-taking as dishonest, or so people say.

 

[jturkel]

Do you know this for a fact? If you apply in June and wait till the end of July to register for the August MCAT, they'll still hold your application?

You may want to contact the med schools/AMCAS directly. Or maybe someone with some experience can provide some input.

they for sure don't start reviewing your file until they receive your new MCAT score....UNLESS you tell them otherwise. Additionally, some schools (Boston University comes to mind) have an option in their secondary application where it asks you, if applicable, if you would like them to hold reviewing your application until they receive your new MCAT scores. Like stated above, call to double check.

 

[Asyouwereatrio]

I was just going to say that the issue with re-writing it sometime in May/June/July is that you will need to indicate on your application that you are re-writing the MCAT and they won't even bother to look at your app packet until they receive the next set of scores...so you'll be pushed "later" into the game.

I should clarify my prior comment about $--I was referring to if you were not accepted to any schools, that you would need to do something for one year+ and re-apply...so that is going to cost quite a bit.. Hopefully you can handle that (and I mean that in the nicest way possible...although we all hope that you get accepted in one shot!)

 

[fatalerror]

they for sure don't start reviewing your file until they receive your new MCAT score....UNLESS you tell them otherwise. Additionally, some schools (Boston University comes to mind) have an option in their secondary application where it asks you, if applicable, if you would like them to hold reviewing your application until they receive your new MCAT scores. Like stated above, call to double check.

If that's the case, that makes thing easier because I can break things down sorta speak. I can submit early and kind of select which schools I want to wait and which I don't, of course it's not simple (because probably not many schools work like this), but at least it's something.

To Asyouwereatrio, yes, that's what I'm afraid of. But if some schools work like jtukel says, maybe I can call them and ask to start reviewing without waiting for the scores. Not sure how that will work out, but I'll call and find out.