Substitution Reactions - Tertiary carbon with weak base

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tk31

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If I have a bad base/good nucleophile (i.e. cyanide, sulfur nucleophile), in polar aprotic conditions, and the electrophile is a tertiary carbon, will I get Sn1? Or no reaction?

My Kaplan notes say that I will get no reaction in this case, however I am not sure. Would there not be an Sn1 reaction because of the stabilizing effect of the 3 alkyl groups?

Thanks
-tk
 
That's such a bad question! So many beautiful Sn2 elements then BAM...tertiary substrate. Lame.

I think the solvent would be the only thing that could prevent this from happening. The stabilization of the carbocation provided by polar protic solvents is important...that would be the justification I could see for that answer of no reaction.
 
If the solvent is polar aprotic the reaction can only under go Sn2 reactions. Sn2 reactions are favored in the following order. methyl > primary > secondary > tertiary. A Tertiary carbon will yield a very very very low product ratio so in this case it could be considered No Reaction.
 
If I have a bad base/good nucleophile (i.e. cyanide, sulfur nucleophile), in polar aprotic conditions, and the electrophile is a tertiary carbon, will I get Sn1? Or no reaction?

My Kaplan notes say that I will get no reaction in this case, however I am not sure. Would there not be an Sn1 reaction because of the stabilizing effect of the 3 alkyl groups?

Thanks
-tk
The bolded conditions do not sufficiently stabilize the intermediate formed in Sn1 reactions. Protic solvents is what you want for Sn1.
 
actually, the OP is correct, the reaction will probably proceed (and it will be Sn1). Using a polar aprotic solvent isn't exactly bad for Sn1, it's just not as good as a polar protic solvent. Technically polar aprotic solvents can also give stability to carbocations, just not as much as polar protic solvents. Given the fact that the alkyl halide is tertiary, the extra stability gained by using a polar protic solvent is not as important.

The nature of the nucleophile is irrelevant. For an Sn1 reaction, the nucleophile is not part of the rate determing step so its characteristics don't affect the rate of the reaction (unless you get to the point where it's such a bad nucleophile that it becomes rate-limiting.)

Of course, this also depends on the nature of the alkyl halide. If each of the three R groups is a trifluoromethyl group (the leaving group isn't fluorine, it's just of the formula (F3C)3CX where X is the leaving group), then you're not going to get an Sn1 reaction because the carbocation would be extremely electron deficient. But for a normal alkyl halide without electron withdrawing groups, the reaction should proceed.

So yeah, i know they teach that you use polar protic solvents for Sn1 and polar aprotic solvents for Sn2, but, in the case of Sn1, polar protic solvents are just better, but not required, especially if the reaction would proceed through a tertiary carbocation. Polar protic solvents add a bit more stability to the carbocation, but polar aprotic solvents don't decrease the stability, they just don't add as much to it (they do add to it though). For Sn2, polar aprotic solvents are more of a requirement (although there are cases where this can be overcome), because a polar protic solvent decreases the nucleophilicity of the nucleophile.
 

What you said all makes sense. It's really annoying when test-prep companies make mistakes because for me, for most things I feel they should know better and I try to make my answer fit into theirs. If that answer truly is correct though, then the only explanation I can think of is the solvent issue, which as you pointed out, isn't really an issue in this case... so the answer should be wrong.
 
What you said all makes sense. It's really annoying when test-prep companies make mistakes because for me, for most things I feel they should know better and I try to make my answer fit into theirs. If that answer truly is correct though, then the only explanation I can think of is the solvent issue, which as you pointed out, isn't really an issue in this case... so the answer should be wrong.

yes, you're right, they're wrong. They make these mistakes because they try to teach these things as cut and dry rules, when it really isn't like that. Some principles are more definitive than others. Now, for the MCAT, a question like this could never be asked, because there would be challenges to the question all the time.
 
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