success in med school

[luckycharms]

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top-tier schools are selective for a reason. they want to pick the best, brightest students who will be able to excel once they get in. they way i see it, gpa and mcats correlate roughly to one's intelligence level (assuming they didn't slack off). therefore, if you have a high enough gpa and mcat that means you're smart enough to do well in higher-tier med schools. so i was wondering, is it worth it for students with lower gpa's and mcats to bother applying to such high-tier med schools? will they be able to succeed even if they get in, given the high level of competition and intelligence of students? b/c personally, i wouldn't want to go somewhere where i was consistently the lowest scoring individual, it would be demoralizing. what do u guys think?

 

[bluerose786]

You brought up a good point, and I somewhat agree by your statement of wanting to be in a class where you wouldn't want to be demoralized. I would rather have a friendly and cooperative class than a hardcore, competitive class. I'd say apply to a few top-tier schools (ones you always wanted to give a try or whose location appeals to you)....you never know what happens. I think that if you get into medical school, and you work hard, use the resources, you will succeed. My bottomline opinion is - apply to a bunch of places, see what happens, check out schools, and go where u feel comfortable...you want to make sure u choose what's best for ur personality and goals🙂

 

[MarzMD]

You brought up a good point, and I somewhat agree by your statement of wanting to be in a class where you wouldn't want to be demoralized. I would rather have a friendly and cooperative class than a hardcore, competitive class......

I went to a top tier undergrad, and trust me, being at the bottom of a top tier school is pointless. I would suggest not putting yourself in that situation. Who cares if you were prepared for the MCAT, if your gpa sucks than you are in trouble. I assume this is the same for medical school.

 

[silas2642]

top-tier schools are selective for a reason. they want to pick the best, brightest students who will be able to excel once they get in. they way i see it, gpa and mcats correlate roughly to one's intelligence level (assuming they didn't slack off). therefore, if you have a high enough gpa and mcat that means you're smart enough to do well in higher-tier med schools. so i was wondering, is it worth it for students with lower gpa's and mcats to bother applying to such high-tier med schools? will they be able to succeed even if they get in, given the high level of competition and intelligence of students? b/c personally, i wouldn't want to go somewhere where i was consistently the lowest scoring individual, it would be demoralizing. what do u guys think?

Talked to a friend of mine who happens to be a great doc. Said that med schools were basing their accepted students on a philosophy quite similar to yours; high mcat scores and gpa mean really smart doctors= very good physicians. Unfortunately, they were wrong. They were getting these dingus physicians who everyone hated and who sucked at medicine. This is why medical schools base an applicants candidacy on more than just quantitative data. They have become more aware that how you perform on an exam really has nothing to do with what kind of physician one will develop into.

 

[dajimmers]

Yeah, I think all (even top schools) are more interested in well-rounded, humanistic and intelligent students. As long as the school isn't too competetive, there should be plenty of "40/40" students willing to give you a hand at biochem or whatever you're lacking in. Let the schools judge for themselves whether you can cut it; you don't need to start doubting yourself!

 

[WhatUpDoc!]

I went to a top tier undergrad, and trust me, being at the bottom of a top tier school is pointless. I would suggest not putting yourself in that situation. Who cares if you were prepared for the MCAT, if your gpa sucks than you are in trouble. I assume this is the same for medical school.

Bump that... hard work and dedication will get you anywhere you want to go regardless of your past mishaps. I came out of high school with a 3.9 and my ACT/SAT scores were in the top percentiles. Did I destroy college like my stats predicted? Hell to the no!!! I almost failed out my freshmen year (Virginia Tech was my undergrad college by the way). But, I got my **** together, put in the time commitment, and my sophomore/junior/senior years were 4.0 city. I'm SURE the same applies to medical school. Don't let GPA/MCAT scores determine your fate. If you really want to practice medicine, adcom will see this and you will do whatever it takes to finish med school. Btw... I hate negative advice... Can you tell?

 

[MarzMD]

If you really want to practice medicine, adcom will see this and you will do whatever it takes to finish med school. Btw... I hate negative advice... Can you tell?

Thats not answering his question. All I am saying is, if you realistically think that you can do very well at a top tier school, go ahead and take that chance. However, dont go to a school that is well above your stats otherwise. I speak from experience, being mediocre at a top tier school is not very beneficial. I dont doubt that hard work will get someone through a top tier medical school, but if you cant compete against the other students, than your future options will be limited.

 

[NapeSpikes]

I speak from experience, being mediocre at a top tier school is not very beneficial. I dont doubt that hard work will get someone through a top tier medical school, but if you cant compete against the other students, than your future options will be limited.

Is it really not beneficial for someone to be near the bottom of their class at say, Harvard, as compared to someone at the top of the class at say Temple? Assuming board scores are the same, I would think that the Harvard person would have as many if not more options, regardless of class standing. This is, of course, all speculation. Thoughts?

 

[Law2Doc]

Is it really not beneficial for someone to be near the bottom of their class at say, Harvard, as compared to someone at the top of the class at say Temple? Assuming board scores are the same, I would think that the Harvard person would have as many if not more options, regardless of class standing. This is, of course, all speculation. Thoughts?

From what I've heard, I'd disagree. If the board scores were the same, and they had equivalent LORs and med school level research experience, and the Temple person was at the top of his class and Harvard at the bottom, the Temple person would probably be in better shape for matching into a selective residency. The Harvard name helps, but you can't suck once you get in and expect it to carry you.
But with respect to the rest of this thread in general, note that med school is a totally different ballgame then undergrad. There is no way that while in undergrad you can realistically expect to do better at one med school than another. All schools are quite competitive, and most adcoms do a good job of selecting a class which is pretty solid in its abilities to tackle med school. Unlike college where there were always C students about, everyone in med school (even at Temple 🙄 ) will on average have been a B+ student or better. And some of those with the lower B+ GPAs will have accomplished quite a lot to make themselves competitive. You will see -- There will be tons of 4.0/40 undergrad types who will not be able to stay at the top of the class in med school. The sheer volume of the material is such that you simply cannot master it all, and lots of people get mired down in material that never makes it onto the exam. Some courses (esp. anatomy) will reward those with photographic memories, even if they barely understand what they are learning. The more clinical type courses and esp the latter two years, will permit the outgoing types to shine, even if they aren't the best test takers. Thus there is a reason that med schools are spending so much time interviewing people, and reading PSs, etc. rather than just taking the highest numerically scoring candidates they can get. So don't assume that you will be able to end up at a different class rank at one med school versus another -- it just won't work that way.

 

[CoffeeFreak]

Good Point, Tex, esq. If med school based acceptance on MCAT & GPA with the given technology we have they have made their decision with a few weeks. Right?

 

[MarzMD]

From what I've heard, I'd disagree. If the board scores were the same, and they had equivalent LORs and med school level research experience, and the Temple person was at the top of his class and Harvard at the bottom, the Temple person would probably be in better shape for matching into a selective residency. The Harvard name helps, but you can't suck once you get in and expect it to carry you.

Exactly what I was saying. The moral of the story is, go where you think you can succeed at. Dont just go to the most prestigous medical school thinking that the name alone will help you in the future. If you have a choice in medical schools, just make sure you make an informed decision about where to go, and dont base it on one being top tier, and the other not.

 

[ms1finally]

top-tier schools are selective for a reason. they want to pick the best, brightest students who will be able to excel once they get in. they way i see it, gpa and mcats correlate roughly to one's intelligence level (assuming they didn't slack off). therefore, if you have a high enough gpa and mcat that means you're smart enough to do well in higher-tier med schools. so i was wondering, is it worth it for students with lower gpa's and mcats to bother applying to such high-tier med schools? will they be able to succeed even if they get in, given the high level of competition and intelligence of students? b/c personally, i wouldn't want to go somewhere where i was consistently the lowest scoring individual, it would be demoralizing. what do u guys think?

The flaw in your logic is believing that someone who is at a "high-tier" med school and at the bottom of their class would be at the top of their class at a "low-tier" med school. This simply isn't the case. People choose the med schools they choose for all kinds of reasons - reputation being one, but significant others, family, and monetary concerns all come into play as well. As a result, there are some state schools that tend to be pretty competitive even though their match list isn't thrilling.

By the time you get to med school intelligence doesn't mean s---, unless you are seriously seriously seriously gifted. Everybody in my med school class is intelligent and I often think the "competition" has more to do with the grading system at the school than with the students admitted. If my class were working on a strict P/F, would the average on the first test have been as high as it was? No way, we all would have studied for a 70 and called it a day.

 

[Law2Doc]

The flaw in your logic is believing that someone who is at a "high-tier" med school and at the bottom of their class would be at the top of their class at a "low-tier" med school. This simply isn't the case. People choose the med schools they choose for all kinds of reasons - reputation being one, but significant others, family, and monetary concerns all come into play as well. As a result, there are some state schools that tend to be pretty competitive even though their match list isn't thrilling.

By the time you get to med school intelligence doesn't mean s---, unless you are seriously seriously seriously gifted. Everybody in my med school class is intelligent and I often think the "competition" has more to do with the grading system at the school than with the students admitted. If my class were working on a strict P/F, would the average on the first test have been as high as it was? No way, we all would have studied for a 70 and called it a day.

Yes, the truth of the matter is that the person who is the bottom of his class at the top ten school will probably be the bottom of the class at whatever other allopathic med school they might have gone to. You are not going to find appreciable difference in a med school where the average matriculant had 3.6/30 versus, say, a 3.8/33. There is no C student bringing down the curve at either place any more at this level.