Success: Intelligence or Hardwork?

[175961]

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I don't buy it. It's a nice yarn and lets folks believe they can get their piece of the pie. But for every Buffett, there are many poor schmucks who are toiling just as hard but aren't doing nearly as well. Hard work is of value when there is talent behind it. But where hard work is not wielded by someone truly talented, inteligent, or a visionary, it's just the story of Sysiphus (rolling a boulder up a hill, only to have it roll back down again -- an exercise of futility). You can absolutely work incredibly hard in life and have nothing to show for it. There are far more examples of this than the converse -- most on this board have examples of this in their own families. Work ethic is great when it is directed appropriately, but brute force effort still requires insight and vision behind it.

if you read the article on the link you should recall the whole driving range analysis. you can hit ball after ball all day long for days and days, maybe even years, and accomplish nothing. so until you actually set some sort of goal you will be one of those schmucks that accomplishes nothing. i think everyone can get thier piece of the pie, granted they work hard AND smart. and that article gave me hope....so back off!!!

 

[DwyaneWade]

The hard worker will almost always be more successful than the genius. Think of the story about the tortoise and the hare. 🙂

I don't agree. That's a children story which I love dearly but this is a myth perpetuated by the media. Hard work can only get you so far while pure genius (in the Hawking or Ramanujan sense) can carry you to the top.

How do we measure success? Dumas was a terrific writer and his works live on today but he died penniless and a drunk. Was he successful? Then we might have Joe Schmo who doesn't do anything "memorable" with his life but raises two well-rounded citizens. Is he successful? Ramanujan taught himself math in South India, went to Britain and changed the mathematical landscape but he dies young of TB and malnutrition. Is he successful?

As for myself in undergrad intelligence carried me more than hard work. In medical school, however, the hard work definitely comes first, but having a better memory for drug names and bugs is helpful.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

Both is a wishy washy answer, so I'll say intelligence. Or rather, aptitude, because intelligence is such a controversial term and doesn't encompase the study skills, interpersonal skills, and technical skills you need for medicine. Natural ability if you will.

I say this because there's nothing sadder than seeing somebody put in hours after class, hitting the books, in labs studying bones, and still have them fail...horribly.

If the intelligent person fails to achieve their dream, it's because of their own laziness.

If the hard working only person fails to achieve their dream, it's through no fault of their own, just how they were made.

 

[DwyaneWade]

Both is a wishy washy answer, so I'll say intelligence. Or rather, aptitude, because intelligence is such a controversial term and doesn't encompase the study skills, interpersonal skills, and technical skills you need for medicine. Natural ability if you will.

I say this because there's nothing sadder than seeing somebody put in hours after class, hitting the books, in labs studying bones, and still have them fail...horribly.

If the intelligent person fails to achieve their dream, it's because of their own laziness.

If the hard working only person fails to achieve their dream, it's through no fault of their own, just how they were made.

One thing I have always wondered though...why don't we ever talk about that focus on a goal as anything more than "hard work" or "dedication"? How do we know it is not a natural talent?

For example (and forgive me for bringing the NBA into this) we have the very talented Ricky Davis who just can't seem to focus and correct the mistakes in his game, and we have a guy like Bruce Bowen who is not nearly as talented but has busted his butt to be the best he can be. How do we know that there is not a genetic reason Bruce Bowen is able to dedicate himself more to his craft than Ricky Davis? That the "more talented" person may not be as talented focus-wise or ability to set their sights on a goal?

 

[175961]

One thing I have always wondered though...why don't we ever talk about that focus on a goal as anything more than "hard work" or "dedication"? How do we know it is not a natural talent?

For example (and forgive me for bringing the NBA into this) we have the very talented Ricky Davis who just can't seem to focus and correct the mistakes in his game, and we have a guy like Bruce Bowen who is not nearly as talented but has busted his butt to be the best he can be. How do we know that there is not a genetic reason Bruce Bowen is able to dedicate himself more to his craft than Ricky Davis? That the "more talented" person may not be as talented focus-wise or ability to set their sights on a goal?

i never thought about it that way....good question

 

[Lokhtar]

Hardwork easily. Intelligence is overrated. I have never seen a hard worker fail in undergrad.

Never. Not once.

 

[DwyaneWade]

Hardwork easily. Intelligence is overrated. I have never seen a hard worker fail in undergrad.

Never. Not once.

Yes but I have seen hard workers fail in medical school, and most importantly, in life. Life isn't fair dude.

 

[illixir]

Hardwork easily. Intelligence is overrated. I have never seen a hard worker fail in undergrad.

Never. Not once.

That might also be because everyone who made it to your undergrad to begin with had the base level of intelligence needed so that hard work would allow them to excel. Other people no matter how hard they work might not even be able to get into particular universities, some not even into a 4-year college. And when looking at something like medicine, getting into medical school is something that a hardworker may not be able to realistically do even though he didn't fail throughout his undergraduate career.

 

[Techmed07]

Yes but I have seen hard workers fail in medical school, and most importantly, in life. Life isn't fair dude.

hmm, I don't buy that.


Hard-work for As' could easily achieve Bs' in my classes if I did not work hard.

 

[DwyaneWade]

hmm, I don't buy that.


Hard-work for As' could easily achieve Bs' in my classes if I did not work hard.

You don't buy what? That hard work doesn't always get bring you success and happiness? If you don't have natural or economic advantages that is a sad truth. Some people will make it but others just can't catch a break.

 

[HumidBeing]

So, this thread is a reworded Nature vs. Nurture word battle?

 

[smeagol]

One thing I have always wondered though...why don't we ever talk about that focus on a goal as anything more than "hard work" or "dedication"? How do we know it is not a natural talent?

For example (and forgive me for bringing the NBA into this) we have the very talented Ricky Davis who just can't seem to focus and correct the mistakes in his game, and we have a guy like Bruce Bowen who is not nearly as talented but has busted his butt to be the best he can be. How do we know that there is not a genetic reason Bruce Bowen is able to dedicate himself more to his craft than Ricky Davis? That the "more talented" person may not be as talented focus-wise or ability to set their sights on a goal?

An excellent observation.

I have pondered this for some time and the implications are maddening.

Wishful thinking has usually led me to believe that I am kind because I try to resist being callous. Although kin selection doesn't seem to adequately explain altruistic behavior, it has certainly made me wonder if people are kind because they could not be otherwise.

 

[Geekchick921]

The classes a pre-med must take are rigorous and require a mix of intelligence and hardwork to be succesful. What do you think has contributed the most towards your success academically - hard work or intelligence?

Also, many of us will likely say that our success in school is caused by a mix of both but to obtain 4.0's do you think it's due to intelligence, hard work, or both?

Personally, both, but hardwork is more important.

I can't believe no one has quoted Thomas Alva Edison yet, "Success is 10 percent inspiration and 90 percent perspiration."

 

[PsychEpathic]

If I get into a school then it's hard work. If I don't get in, then it must be intelligence .

 

[Techmed07]

You don't buy what? That hard work doesn't always get bring you success and happiness? If you don't have natural or economic advantages that is a sad truth. Some people will make it but others just can't catch a break.

I don't buy that one can get through undergrad. Get accepted into medical school and not be able to hack it due to lack of intelligence.

Most intelligent individuals place more emphasis on their hard work than on their so-called "intelligence".

"If there is a will there is a way."

 

[BrokenGlass]

I don't buy that one can get through undergrad. Get accepted into medical school and not be able to hack it due to lack of intelligence.

Most intelligent individuals place more emphasis on their hard work than on their so-called "intelligence".

"If there is a will there is a way."

Not just a will. A trust fund is also very important.

 

[HumidBeing]

I think of myself as someone who has a decent, though not spectacular, amount of intelligence and very good ability to plan and focus on work to do what needs to be done. The success that I've experienced so far, though, wouldn't have happened without huge doses of resourcefulness and gumption.

A certain minimum base of intelligence may be necessary, but it takes a basket full of other attributes to be successful, and it doesn't have to be the same mixture for each person.

 

[Lokhtar]

Yes but I have seen hard workers fail in medical school, and most importantly, in life. Life isn't fair dude.

Never said you could be Einstein. But I don't see any reason that a person of average intelligence (IQ of 90-110) wouldn't be able to do any profession (including medicine) with hard work.

That might also be because everyone who made it to your undergrad to begin with had the base level of intelligence needed so that hard work would allow them to excel. Other people no matter how hard they work might not even be able to get into particular universities, some not even into a 4-year college. And when looking at something like medicine, getting into medical school is something that a hardworker may not be able to realistically do even though he didn't fail throughout his undergraduate career.

Um, its not really possible to work as hard as possible and not get into a university, unless you're <80 IQ.