Such thing as a clean slate when trying to get your ideal specialty/residency?

[southpawcannon]

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I'm a non-trad, finishing pre-reqs and MS Biology, who is working his arse off to look worthy of gaining acceptance to med school. I'm afraid that my poor early undergrad grades are going to cost me acceptance to a competitive medical school that in turn would give me a better shot at my specialty of choice and one of my top choices for residency. Is this a fair assessment or as long as I attend a continental US medical school(don't dig the Caribbean thing), pass High or with Honors, excell on Step 1 and 2, and get good LOR, I have a good chance?

Thanks

 

[sophiejane]

I'm a non-trad, finishing pre-reqs and MS Biology, who is working his arse off to look worthy of gaining acceptance to med school. I'm afraid that my poor early undergrad grades are going to cost me acceptance to a competitive medical school that in turn would give me a better shot at my specialty of choice and one of my top choices for residency. Is this a fair assessment or as long as I attend a continental US medical school(don't dig the Caribbean thing), pass High or with Honors, excell on Step 1 and 2, and get good LOR, I have a good chance?

Thanks

Sigh.

Let me look into my crystal ball....seriously, there are so many factors there, so many "if's"...what would you have us tell you?

Look, if you want to do it, stick your neck out there and do it. Apply broadly. Apply again if you have to. Don't get hung up on big names--state schools are fine and most people go on to their specialty of choice and something like 80% of US grads get one of their top three residency choices, regardless of where they go to school.

Ask yourself what you want (though this will likely change many times) and go about getting it. It really is that simple.

Being afraid of failure is only going to make it more difficult for you. I'm "non-trad" (i.e."old") too and I understand your concerns, and had some of them myself a few years ago, but really, just go do it and stop worrying.

best of luck.

 

[southpawcannon]

I think I've spent too much time on here lately and seeing too many other people complain about 'ifs' that I'm starting to turn into one of 'em myself. Doubting myself on occasion based on someone elses circumstances that appear to be similar yet are probably so far apart. I think I need to stay off of this site for a while and do what I already know I need to do to get in.

Sigh.

Let me look into my crystal ball....seriously, there are so many factors there, so many "if's"...what would you have us tell you?

Look, if you want to do it, stick your neck out there and do it. Apply broadly. Apply again if you have to. Don't get hung up on big names--state schools are fine and most people go on to the specialty and get one of their top three residency choices regardless of where they go to school.

Ask yourself what you want (though this will likely change many times) and go about getting it. It really is that simple.

Being afraid of failure is only going to make it more difficult for you. I'm "non-trad" (i.e."old")too and I understand your concerns, and had some of them myself years ago, but really, just go do it and stop worrying.

best of luck.

 

[sophiejane]

I think I've spent too much time on here lately and seeing too many other people complain about 'ifs' that I'm starting to turn into one of 'em myself. Doubting myself on occasion based on someone elses circumstances that appear to be similar yet are probably so far apart. I think I need to stay off of this site for a while and do what I already know I need to do to get in.

I took a year or so hiatus from SDN while I was applying. It was good for me. The pre-med forums can be very toxic-- they can also be helpful and entertaining--but mostly they are toxic.

I guess as an advisor I should encourage you not to take a hiatus, but honestly, I think the best information and support I've gotten here has been on forums other than the pre-med ones. Keep in mind that there are plenty of people on the internet who aren't what they claim to be, and that the most vocal posters tend to be the most aggressive and competitive ones. Plenty of normal folks like you rarely speak up, so the "consensus" is often highly skewed to the gunner end of the spectrum.

 

[Winged Scapula]

sophiejane has an excellent point about SDN: the pre-whatever forums tend to be littered with bad advice, bad attitudes and general insanity. They do NOT represent medicine as a whole or the practitioners. Spend any time in the professional forums and you will generally get a more accurate picture of the field you are interested in and a kinder and gentler approach (most of the time).

That said, no one has a crystal ball about your chances. You must make a Plan A, B and perhaps C if your dreams of attending an American school do not come true. As sophiejane noted, almost all AMGs get the residency of their choice or at least the top 3. Even if you graduated from Harvard or one of the other big name schools, no one can guarantee that you would match into your chosen specialty, regardless of how competitive it is. Your choice of American medical school is much farther down on the list than your USMLE scores, LORs, clinical evals, etc. If you get into one and do well, you will have as good a shot at your desired residency as anyone else.

 

[sophiejane]

Interesting side note: I am just starting residency and have been getting to know my fellow interns. One is from a very big name school, and they told me the other day that they felt their clinical experiences were not as rich as those of us from smaller state schools, because at the more prestigious schools, you are often way down the line when it comes to getting to do stuff as a student.

I went to a state D.O. school, and did all of my rotations in community hospitals. I did lots of deliveries and procedures, and was first assist on many surgeries. I had respectable scores on both USMLE steps, so I know I learned the same stuff.

Now, I'm at my #1 residency choice with some very smart folks from much more widely known schools than mine. Now, I chose Family, so I can't promise you the same experience if you choose Derm, but in the end, I'm a very happy camper.

Best of luck.

 

[gutonc]

Interesting side note: I am just starting residency and have been getting to know my fellow interns. One is from a very big name school, and they told me the other day that they felt their clinical experiences were not as rich as those of us from smaller state schools, because at the more prestigious schools, you are often way down the line when it comes to getting to do stuff as a student.

I experienced this as well. I went to a state allopathic school and rotated through a lot of rough and tumble hospitals and got a crapload of experience in procedures, deliveries, OR time (even though I didn't want it), etc, simply because there wasn't anyone else around to do those things. Folks I met on the interview trail who came from "Name You Know College of Medicine" were certainly smart but hadn't had as much hands-on experience.

Having said all of that, to answer the OP question. If you get into med school (US allopathic) and aren't applying for Neurosurgery or integrated Plastics, your pre-med record won't matter at all (assuming you don't have any arrests/convictions to report).

 

[sophiejane]

Having said all of that, to answer the OP question. If you get into med school (US allopathic) and aren't applying for Neurosurgery or integrated Plastics, your pre-med record won't matter at all (assuming you don't have any arrests/convictions to report).

Without turning this into the dreaded debate that shall remain nameless, I would argue that it doesn't even have to be US allopathic. Some of the larger, more established US osteopathic schools are producing some match lists that look very similar to those of state allopathic schools. In addition to IM, FM, OBGyn, psych and Peds, we also matched folks into rads, ortho, surgery, ENT, urology, path, derm, ER, etc., many at allopathic institutions with names you'd definitely recognize.

Bottom line: if you want it, you will do it.

 

[gutonc]

Without turning this into the dreaded debate that shall remain nameless, I would argue that it doesn't even have to be US allopathic.

Agreed for the most part. But since my experience is allopathic, I can only speak to that.

 

[Coastie]

sure.

go git er dun

I'm a non-trad, finishing pre-reqs and MS Biology, who is working his arse off to look worthy of gaining acceptance to med school. I'm afraid that my poor early undergrad grades are going to cost me acceptance to a competitive medical school that in turn would give me a better shot at my specialty of choice and one of my top choices for residency. Is this a fair assessment or as long as I attend a continental US medical school(don't dig the Caribbean thing), pass High or with Honors, excell on Step 1 and 2, and get good LOR, I have a good chance?

Thanks

 

[supercut]

The biggest obstacle in all this is getting into medical school. Once you've done that, you will graduate, and you will find a residency spot.

That said, if you barely scrape through medical school and barely pass the steps, you are unlikely to match into, say, dermatology. But you can certainly find a residency somewhere in something primary care related.

I had a sub optimal premed background, went back to med school at 38. Went to a state school and got great hands on clincial experience. Studied my A $$ off yrs 1 &2, rocked step 1and matched into a pretty good surgery program. My fellow interns from you know the name medical school had never even taken overnight call...their first overnight call was as an intern. I was used to staying up all night doing admissions and procedures...since I had done that i medical school. So my first nights on call were more about learning the system and juggling multiple issues. My counterparts stuggled a lot more... for the first couple months only. After that we were all pretty equally competent.

I think to address your original quesion, though...once you get into med school, basically you do get a clean slate. No one will care about your GPA from anything other than medical school as you progress into residency. I think it sort of starts again in residency, as one of our faculty recently said at our chief's graduation , "I don't know where most of my colleages when to medical school, but I can tell you where each one did his residency"

I think you'll be fine as long as you can get into a US med school. Even some Carribean grads come out OK but that is a stigma (right or wrong) that should be avoided if you can.