kypreos

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tons of thoughts have passed through my head on which direction I should go about becoming a physician. I have been in college for 5 years now. The first three years of my college career I wish I could go back and erase. There is nothing I hate more then having my undergraduate grades haunt me as they do now. I averaged about a 2.2 the first three years in college. Then It hit me, HEY! you have to work HARD in college. I then began digging myself out, slowly. I finished the first semester of fourth year with a 3.3. the following semester I began to pick up steam, the last week of finals I was hospitalized for a week. My institution did now allow me to withdraw from classes considering it was that late in the semester. I was forced to have my classes averaged without the final exams. That semester I was taking Chem IV and Physics II. I took D's in both were I was on the verge of B+ and A-. My final year I made deans list both times and managed a 3.6 both semesters. My aacomas GPA is listed as 2.9 cum and 2.68 sci. I am signed up for the fall at my local community college for biochem, retaking chem 4(I have already taken Physics II again and recieved a B+) and physio. I have no problem with DO whatsoever. I have retaken some classes as well which is what brought my GPA up. I am signed to take the mcat july 31, which I will probobly be moving back to august because my test average has been a 25. So am I SMP worthy or should I take more courses at my community college. I cannot live were I am living for another year and I need to be out of this house by next summer(living home with my mom is terrible, I have had a terrible home life and I need out again). your suggestions? again I do not mind osteopathic schools. should I still pursue SMP's? or should I apply while taking classes. I am applying 2010 I have wrote a compelling story but If I do not gain acceptance this year should I do an SMP or continue retaking/taking classes. I have a steep upward trend, I am just worried its not long enough. I have definitly learned my lesson and although I know SMP's are high risk high reward, I know that I will not fail and nothing can hold me back. thank you. I know this is crazy but are there any SMP's that are still accepting applications for the Fall of 2009?
 

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robflanker

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CC classes arent going to replace your poor grades in a 4yr place. Med schools will laugh at them.
 

gl0baltrader

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With your current grades and your practice MCAT scores, things are not looking very good. I would suggest holding off on the MCAT until you ready to take them - maybe pay for a Princeton or Kaplan class.

Second, you need more than a year's upward trend to be considered for both SMP or Post-Bac. I would suggest taking a second bachelor in science and getting a 4.0 or take two years of upper division classes in your STATE University not Community College and scoring a 4.0.

Third, I don't think you want to do an SMP unless you are sure that you will be able to do well on them.

You have a long journey towards medicine, good luck. If you have any further question just PM me.
 

DrMidlife

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CC classes arent going to replace your poor grades in a 4yr place. Med schools will laugh at them.
I agree that any work outside the rigors of a 4yr university would be a bad idea. But DO schools do grade replacement and I found them to be fairly humorless about it.
 
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kypreos

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CC classes arent going to replace your poor grades in a 4yr place. Med schools will laugh at them.
true, but I took some of my prereq's (bio 1 and 2) at my CC during my first 2 years there. I was planning on retaking them and I was planning on taking Biochem there as well since they offer it. The only class I was planninig on taking at my CC that I did take at my state school was Chem IV.
 

robflanker

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Wait so you got a 2.2 in CC whilst doing your pre-reqs?

Do med schools even accept pre-reqs from CC?

DrMidlife - you are right DO does grade replacement, and whilst on paper the GPA will change, as soon as they actually look at the classes - it'll be very obvious that the OP took the easy way out.

You need to be doing classes at a 4yr school, not a CC - thats the bottom line
 
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kypreos

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Wait so you got a 2.2 in CC whilst doing your pre-reqs?

Do med schools even accept pre-reqs from CC?

DrMidlife - you are right DO does grade replacement, and whilst on paper the GPA will change, as soon as they actually look at the classes - it'll be very obvious that the OP took the easy way out.

You need to be doing classes at a 4yr school, not a CC - thats the bottom line
I only took prereqs at my CC. and they were both C's. (bio 1 and 2) my gpa overall(a 3.3) got me into my state school. I then switched majors to pre-med. My pre-med advisor SUCKED and even though I had C's in my bio classes he insisted I take genetics. Well what do you know happened next, I pulled a C+ in Genetics. I tried my ass off but I just was lazy when I took Bio 1 and 2 which killed me. My first year at my state school is what really wrecked my GPA. I ended up pulling a 2.2 that whole year. With classes that included Chem 1 C- Genetics C+. Then next semester I went on to ORGO I and pulled a B+ I was also told to take calc since I took pre calc at my CC and I ended up withdrawing. The following year however My first semester I pulled a 3.3 with classes like ORGO II that I somehoe pulled a B in(Ironically I pulled B's in both and bombed inorganic)I also took physics I and pulled a C+. That is when I wised up and the next semester while taking Chem II and Physics II(I was on a role my test averages for both classes were in the 90's) I got sick the WEEK of finals and my professors had no clue were I was. I was hospitolized for 7 days with campylobacter poisening. My GPA that semester was a 1.8. I have explained that in my Personal Statement. The last 2 semesters I have taken 3k level bio courses(comparative anatomy, medical botany etc) and finished that year with a 3.55. I have also RETAKEN 2 courses that I originally took at my state institution and retook them at the state institution and turned them into much better grades. so my first year and he last semester of my second year left me in a ditch that I am trying to dig myself out of. I pulled C's at my CC because I had no intentions of going into medicine and I was lazy. My new advisor (who's brother is a DO) told me to retake the CC courses because they will be erased forever, like there will be no record of me ever having taken them and getting C's in them. I could turn them into A's and noone will know. I called to school to confirm and they erase the old grades completely. So that was my next step WHILE applying, because if I do that my GPA goes to a 3.2cum and a 3.0 sci for DO schools. hopefulle then with a high mcat I could get in somewhere. Thank you for all your help btw. It's greatly appreciated.
 

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Wait so you got a 2.2 in CC whilst doing your pre-reqs?

Do med schools even accept pre-reqs from CC?

DrMidlife - you are right DO does grade replacement, and whilst on paper the GPA will change, as soon as they actually look at the classes - it'll be very obvious that the OP took the easy way out.

You need to be doing classes at a 4yr school, not a CC - thats the bottom line
Med schools indeed accept pre-reqs from CCs. Plenty of med schools are officially agnostic about this - even the UCs (Calif.). Would I recommend doing any coursework at a CC in a GPA comeback? No, absolutely not. You have no control whatsoever over which individual is reviewing your med school app (MD or DO) and that individual may view CCs as low quality. Or that individual may be part of a high-quality local CC. In my view you'd be pre-emptively, randomly slicing off more than half the schools you apply to, by going in there with recent CC work on top of a low GPA.
 
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kypreos

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Med schools indeed accept pre-reqs from CCs. Plenty of med schools are officially agnostic about this - even the UCs (Calif.). Would I recommend doing any coursework at a CC in a GPA comeback? No, absolutely not. You have no control whatsoever over which individual is reviewing your med school app (MD or DO) and that individual may view CCs as low quality. Or that individual may be part of a high-quality local CC. In my view you'd be pre-emptively, randomly slicing off more than half the schools you apply to, by going in there with recent CC work on top of a low GPA.
lol u guys are arguing over something that I am not doing. I have not retaken classes at a CC that I have taken at my state institution.

2 classes that I have retaken AT MY STATE INSTITUTION
Physics II D----->B+
Chem I C------>A-

thats it, I have only taken 2 PRE REQ's at my CC
Bio I C+
Bio II C
imo thats not THAT BAD I plan on retaking them just to turn them back into A's and it will be CHEAP. so to DO schools it will look like this
Inorganic I A-
Inorganic II D
Bio I A
Bio II A
Orgo I B+
Orgo II B_
Physics I C
Physics II B+
the only class I was looking to retake was chem IV at my CC, I was gonna try and get away with that since its the same # of credits. I can easily take it at my state school. I just didnt see a reason to retake classes I took at my CC at my state school. It's literally double the price. I was gonna take bio chem at my cc too cause it was cheap. thats all lol.
 

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lol u guys are arguing over something that I am not doing. I have not retaken classes at a CC that I have taken at my state institution.
I recommend that you do those retakes at a 4yr.
 

DrMidlife

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My new advisor (who's brother is a DO) told me to retake the CC courses because they will be erased forever, like there will be no record of me ever having taken them and getting C's in them. I could turn them into A's and noone will know. I called to school to confirm and they erase the old grades completely.
This isn't quite correct: while the retaken grades won't be factored into your GPAs on the AACOMAS app, those grades are still listed in your coursework for med schools to see.

And ah, that listed coursework. At one DO school where I interviewed last year, an administrator sits down with each candidate and goes through their transcripts, line by line, expecting an explanation for any grade less than a B. Feels rather like having a truck full of dog poo dumped on one's head.
 
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kypreos

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This isn't quite correct: while the retaken grades won't be factored into your GPAs on the AACOMAS app, those grades are still listed in your coursework for med schools to see.

And ah, that listed coursework. At one DO school where I interviewed last year, an administrator sits down with each candidate and goes through their transcripts, line by line, expecting an explanation for any grade less than a B. Feels rather like having a truck full of dog poo dumped on one's head.
I am not talking about aacomas, I am talking about the Community College. When I spoke with them, they as my advisor has mentioned told me that they erase the first grade completely. When they send transcripts out the first grade will be replaced by the new one. and the old grade vanishes. this is just what I heard from the CC, so when they sent transcripts TO aacomas, the first C will not show on the transcript. It will look like I got an A the first time. I will retake the Chem IV at the state school. The commute is what sux,(1 hour) and doing that 3x a week for 15 weeks blows but I'll do it. Even if the grades are completely replaces and AAMCAS and AACOMAS thinks I got A's do you still think I should retake at the 4yr? even if I can make it look like I only took the class once and pulled A's in it. I live in NJ and this is what my advisor said would happen if I retook the class at the CC and this does not work at my state institution. again thank you for all your help you have been very helpfull and I have been looking into VCOM's postbach. I'm just a little frusterated I didnt apply earlier. This year I think I'm going to apply DO let them know I'm taking x classes and hope for the best. All while applying to SMP's and Post Bac programs. I have EVERYTHING else in my app completed. LOR's EC's Personal Statement. I am sitting for the MCAT juily 31st. I am going to take a test today and tommorow. Depending on those grades Ill see if I'm gonna push back my exam date. thanks for the support, I know my app is kinda low GPA wise. its good to have people on here helping people get to where they wanna be.
 

DrMidlife

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I am not talking about aacomas, I am talking about the Community College. When I spoke with them, they as my advisor has mentioned told me that they erase the first grade completely. When they send transcripts out the first grade will be replaced by the new one. and the old grade vanishes. this is just what I heard from the CC, so when they sent transcripts TO aacomas, the first C will not show on the transcript. It will look like I got an A the first time. I will retake the Chem IV at the state school. The commute is what sux,(1 hour) and doing that 3x a week for 15 weeks blows but I'll do it. Even if the grades are completely replaces and AAMCAS and AACOMAS thinks I got A's do you still think I should retake at the 4yr? even if I can make it look like I only took the class once and pulled A's in it. I live in NJ and this is what my advisor said would happen if I retook the class at the CC and this does not work at my state institution. again thank you for all your help you have been very helpfull and I have been looking into VCOM's postbach. I'm just a little frusterated I didnt apply earlier. This year I think I'm going to apply DO let them know I'm taking x classes and hope for the best. All while applying to SMP's and Post Bac programs. I have EVERYTHING else in my app completed. LOR's EC's Personal Statement. I am sitting for the MCAT juily 31st. I am going to take a test today and tommorow. Depending on those grades Ill see if I'm gonna push back my exam date. thanks for the support, I know my app is kinda low GPA wise. its good to have people on here helping people get to where they wanna be.
I don't buy it. Schools don't erase transcript lines for repeats, and if they do, they don't get accredited. I spent a total of 5 minutes looking for some backup for this on ed.gov, but I didn't find it and I don't have time to blow. My concern for you is that you're hanging your future on the advice of some $12/hr office workers who have more confidence than brains.

This forum is about 2/3 dedicated to folks who need SMPs or otherwise have crappy GPAs and are doing fairly crazy things to fix their GPAs. If we could just go back and retake our C's to make them disappear, we wouldn't be spending multiple more years in undergrad and $50k on a year in an SMP to get into med school. There are more than 200k hits on the "official low GPA thread" in this forum, which has all the sob stories about how old bad grades make premed life suck. There wouldn't be sob stories if we could undo the damage.

If you're able to retake CC coursework, and get A's, and that CC happens to take the accreditation-risking step of wiping out old grades on your transcript, and you're confident that no med school will ever consider the national clearing house information of where you were in school when and compare it to your transcript, then go for it. Otherwise, yep, do the retakes at a 4yr, because those CC C's aren't going away.

Best of luck to you.
 
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kypreos

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I don't buy it. Schools don't erase transcript lines for repeats, and if they do, they don't get accredited. I spent a total of 5 minutes looking for some backup for this on ed.gov, but I didn't find it and I don't have time to blow. My concern for you is that you're hanging your future on the advice of some $12/hr office workers who have more confidence than brains.

This forum is about 2/3 dedicated to folks who need SMPs or otherwise have crappy GPAs and are doing fairly crazy things to fix their GPAs. If we could just go back and retake our C's to make them disappear, we wouldn't be spending multiple more years in undergrad and $50k on a year in an SMP to get into med school. There are more than 200k hits on the "official low GPA thread" in this forum, which has all the sob stories about how old bad grades make premed life suck. There wouldn't be sob stories if we could undo the damage.

If you're able to retake CC coursework, and get A's, and that CC happens to take the accreditation-risking step of wiping out old grades on your transcript, and you're confident that no med school will ever consider the national clearing house information of where you were in school when and compare it to your transcript, then go for it. Otherwise, yep, do the retakes at a 4yr, because those CC C's aren't going away.

Best of luck to you.
thanks, maybe ill do some searching on this. I'm pretty sure the school is accredited. Its one of the better CC's out there for sure. I will find some info on it. You can t do this at my 4 year but the advisor at my 4 year(PhD etc one of the top advisors at my school) has said that I could be able to take the credits over at my 4 year and the C goes away. If this is somehow miraculous then I will do it. I then followed up with academic advising at the CC and they said it replaces it completely. i will call back and verify again but im pretty sure im golden for those 2 classes. Ill def. let you know what happens.
 

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Your grade will not be replaced even though you take them over. If somebody told you it will be erased and replaced with a higher grade they as B/S ing. It might work if you are applying for graduate school but not Medical School.
I was in the same position before and they told me that it will be replaced with a higher grade but it does not work. Contact AMCAS for their updated policy but last year they want all grades even if you take them over.
 
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kypreos

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Your grade will not be replaced even though you take them over. If somebody told you it will be erased and replaced with a higher grade they as B/S ing. It might work if you are applying for graduate school but not Medical School.
I was in the same position before and they told me that it will be replaced with a higher grade but it does not work. Contact AMCAS for their updated policy but last year they want all grades even if you take them over.
I just called and could not get a solid answer. I will be driving there tommorow. maybe they will show that I have taken it before but not produce a grade? maybe it is different for med school. who knows. maybe aamcas demands a grade etc.

thank you btw. at least people know that its not just me and dont think I smoke rocks
 

robflanker

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thats it, I have only taken 2 PRE REQ's at my CC
Bio I C+
Bio II C
imo thats not THAT BAD I plan on retaking them just to turn them back into A's and it will be CHEAP. so to DO schools it will look like this
We arent arguing, we are discussing. I feel no anger/no malice to DrMidlife, I have a lot of respect for them - we are just figuring it out.

Anyways, it is THAT BAD. In fact, its terrible to be blunt. You got Cs at a CC. The avg GPA for MD is 3.6-3.65 and some of the foreign schools claim avg GPAs of 3.2-3.4 from 4yr instutitions. Right now you have a 2.3 from a CC. You are a long long long way from being competitive for foreign. Repeating at CC won't help you because even if you got a 4.0 its not going to be looked at the same as a 4.0 from a 4yr.

You need to take these classes at a 4yr
 

gl0baltrader

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I just called and could not get a solid answer. I will be driving there tommorow. maybe they will show that I have taken it before but not produce a grade? maybe it is different for med school. who knows. maybe aamcas demands a grade etc.

thank you btw. at least people know that its not just me and dont think I smoke rocks
Why don't you contact AMCAS and asked what they're policy on retaking a class are. I retook a class that i did poorly on (got a D) and got my grade replaced with a B, but AMCAS still counts both grades towards my cumulative.
For example: I got a D in 4.0 unit class, retook the class and got a B.
The AMCAS will calculate them as such: 4.0 units * 2.0 (GPA) + 4.0 units * 3.0 (GPA) / 8.0 units = my GPA is 2.5 with 8.0 units of classes.

It does not erase your past discretion, so if you received a D or an F you will have a hard time raising your GPA.
 

DrMidlife

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Why don't you contact AMCAS and asked what they're policy on retaking a class are. I retook a class that i did poorly on (got a D) and got my grade replaced with a B, but AMCAS still counts both grades towards my cumulative.
For example: I got a D in 4.0 unit class, retook the class and got a B.
The AMCAS will calculate them as such: 4.0 units * 2.0 (GPA) + 4.0 units * 3.0 (GPA) / 8.0 units = my GPA is 2.5 with 8.0 units of classes.

It does not erase your past discretion, so if you received a D or an F you will have a hard time raising your GPA.
I don't think the AMCAS protocol is in question. A specific school's transcript protocol is.

One way to force this issue would be to ask the adviser for a written statement that the transcript would include only the most recent grade. That'll make him/her actually do his/her homework.
 
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kypreos

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Anyways, it is THAT BAD. In fact, its terrible to be blunt. You got Cs at a CC. The avg GPA for MD is 3.6-3.65
wow, your great at copying and pasting I see. If I retook those C's in bio and if made them A's THEN it wouldnt be that bad. Yeah with the 2 C's that I recieved at a CC in 2005 it looks bad, however IF I retook them and turned them into A's it wouldnt. Your comments are offensive vs. some of the other posters in this thread who have been supportive and helpful. 2 C's at a CC does not count me out whatsoever. There have been PLENTY of people ON THIS WEBSITE who actually MATRICULATED into medical school. I have spoken to many of them. Though I do not plan on applying with those C's as I have the opportunity to retake them(at my CC or NOT) They will be turned into A's. and considering I have been pre med for the past 3 years I KNOW what the average GPA and MCAT score is for allopathic and osteopathic schools thank you very much. maybe you should tone it down with your attitude and learn some reading comprehension.
I don't think the AMCAS protocol is in question. A specific school's transcript protocol is.

One way to force this issue would be to ask the adviser for a written statement that the transcript would include only the most recent grade. That'll make him/her actually do his/her homework.
I plan on doing that considering I have not only talked to the advisor but academic advising AT the CC.
 

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CC classes don't really count for much, so if you get your As and if you get in med school then congratulations.

No need for the lecture and stop acting all high and mighty. Whether you like or not, you are a long way from med school and Cs at CC any point in time will haunt you, and even if you replaced it with an A it still doesnt count for much.

You are delusional if you think your A at CC is as valuable as an A at a 4yr. But hey good luck to you, i couldnt care less
 
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kypreos

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CC classes don't really count for much, so if you get your As and if you get in med school then congratulations.

No need for the lecture and stop acting all high and mighty. Whether you like or not, you are a long way from med school and Cs at CC any point in time will haunt you, and even if you replaced it with an A it still doesnt count for much.

You are delusional if you think your A at CC is as valuable as an A at a 4yr. But hey good luck to you, i couldnt care less
I have literally seen you post on this forumn regarding CC courses a bunch of times. There are thousands of applicants who matriculate into MD and DO programs who complete a few of there prereqs at CC's. A few of them I know are at my state school, UMDNJ and some are at ROSS. I understand that it is not as respected by some schools and I have never said that it is as valuable as a 4 year institution but telling people that they are out of the running if they got 2 C's at a CC in pre req courses is false. I have searched the forumns and TONS of people have created threads in the pre osteo forum regarding this very topic. You are bashing me because I got C's at my community college in Bio 1 and 2. Using this as a tool to say that not only did I take it at an "easier" institution but that I am clearly not intelligent enough to get into medical school. Ill have you know that at my extremely difficult, I mean you have to be einstien to get an A in this place state school, ,I pulled A's this past year in Micro, Comparative anatomy and Medical Botany. I may have pulled C's in the huge number of prereqs (2) at my community college but this should not hold my application back as much as you believe it will. Unless I was looking at schools like hopkins most mid-low tier schools dont mind seeying some CC courses dude. what about those students who are entered into the "stars" program who complete thier first 2 years at CC's because its COMPLETELY FREE AND PAID FOR by the state. they seem to be incredibly intelligent and guess what I bet they did some of thier pre reqs there. Get over yourself.
 

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Hilarious. NJ is my state too, doesnt take genius to get As at this state school
 

DrMidlife

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Settle down. Ad hominem is seriously boring.

If people don't want to listen to advice just ignore them - they'll find out whether their confidence is justified soon enough.