Summer Options

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HopelessGirl

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So I kind of messed up when comes to this summer...
I decided to take the rest of Orgo during the summer so that I could take higher up Biology classes my junior year.

However, I want to also do research... But that only leaves 4 weeks of actual free time to devote to it. I will go to the lab at least three times a week during Orgo, but obviously not as much time as I would if I did not take.

I also wanted to apply for grants which require 8 free weeks. I can just not take the third quarter until junior year but that only barely leaves enough time.

Should I not take these classes? Is research more important? I can apply for grants during the year as I will of course continue research.
 
@HopelessGirl How badly do you need the classes? If you don't take them in the summer will that delay your application? Between classes you must have now and research you could do later, the classes win out. If they are not imperative, figure out what you want to do with your summer. We can't help too much with that.
 
J Senpai said:
@HopelessGirl How badly do you need the classes? If you don't take them in the summer will that delay your application? Between classes you must have now and research you could do later, the classes win out. If they are not imperative, figure out what you want to do with your summer. We can't help too much with that.
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Well I want to fix my GPA, so the more classes, the better. Plus Orgo during Junior year doesn't sound fun. I guess I answered my question.
 
If you're taking a legit summer Orgo class, don't expect any free time through the duration of that course. I took Orgo I and Orgo II back to back in the summer (first 5 weeks O1, 2nd 5 weeks O2.) I barely had enough time to cry after bombing an exam because of how demanding summer Orgo is. If you need a good grade in Orgo, don't make any plans until after the final.
 
I think you kind of did. If necessary, research should come later, especially moving to make way for GPA improvement. Have you considered applying after you graduate so you have an extra year of grades/activities?

EDIT: That's what I'm doing BTW.
 
You definitely should not do both of them over the summer. Ochem is a very rigorous course and research is very time consuming. If you decide to take ochem over summer, only focus on it so you can be sure to make an "A".
Would you consider graduating a little later than planned to give your self more time?
 
kk123 said:
You definitely should not do both of them over the summer. Ochem is a very rigorous course and research is very time consuming. If you decide to take ochem over summer, only focus on it so you can be sure to make an "A".
Would you consider graduating a little later than planned to give your self more time?
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No, but I would consider just not applying until after a gap year.
 
baconshrimps said:
If you're taking a legit summer Orgo class, don't expect any free time through the duration of that course. I took Orgo I and Orgo II back to back in the summer (first 5 weeks O1, 2nd 5 weeks O2.) I barely had enough time to cry after bombing an exam because of how demanding summer Orgo is. If you need a good grade in Orgo, don't make any plans until after the final.
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Haha, okay. I'll definitely cut the extra-curriculars down a lot during those 9 weeks.
 
HopelessGirl said:
Haha, okay. I'll definitely cut the extra-curriculars down a lot during those 9 weeks.
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Consider cutting them down entirely.
Your extra-curriculars during summer orgo should include AND be limited to the following: sleep, shower, toilet paper if not already taken care of by shower.
 
Would it be terrible if i only took the first two quarters of Orgo? Then I could take higher level Bios during junior year and Orgo during third quarter. It would leave me with 3 more weeks + 4 more grand...
 
baconshrimps said:
Consider cutting them down entirely.
Your extra-curriculars during summer orgo should include AND be limited to the following: sleep, shower, toilet paper if not already taken care of by shower.
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How many hours a day was needed for studying?
 
Just a general question on research: Would it be better to "tag along" onto someone else's research or do it myself? I kind of have both options and want to know before I shoot PI's an email.
 
lol if you're trying to learn orgo over 8 weeks and you want to get an A? forget research. forget extracurriculars. forget your friends. forget your family. it will be all you can do to just eat sleep (minimal) study poop and pee. and research? i love the concept that one can do research by going every OTHER day. what do you think research is? a part time job? and -- four weeks of research? are you kidding? a month in lab is barely enough time for you to be able to find all the reagents, much less DO anything productive with them.
 
crimsonkid85 said:
lol if you're trying to learn orgo over 8 weeks and you want to get an A? forget research. forget extracurriculars. forget your friends. forget your family. it will be all you can do to just eat sleep (minimal) study poop and pee. and research? i love the concept that one can do research by going every OTHER day. what do you think research is? a part time job?
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Lol, no I meant besides in the summer. I realize those 9 weeks will be hell. A hell filled with Orgo. But I want to start up research next quarter and the rest of my summer. I just need to commit to a lab.. quick.
 
Also, Orgo in 3 weeks (a quarter) is probably just as bad as it was during 8 weeks. I won't have 3.3 other classes to worry about.
 
HopelessGirl said:
Lol, no I meant besides in the summer. I realize those 9 weeks will be hell. A hell filled with Orgo. But I want to start up research next quarter and the rest of my summer. I just need to commit to a lab.. quick.
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you know what's annoying to a PI? an undergraduate coming to lab for a quarter. then you'll have to leave for final exams. then you'll have to leave for summer orgo. by the time you come back in the fall, people will be like are you even in lab? you'll seem like a giant flake. if you can't realistically start lab until after orgo, then start after orgo.
 
crimsonkid85 said:
you know what's annoying to a PI? an undergraduate coming to lab for a quarter. then you'll have to leave for final exams. then you'll have to leave for summer orgo. by the time you come back in the fall, people will be like are you even in lab? you'll seem like a giant flake. if you can't realistically start lab until after orgo, then start after orgo.
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I can start now, cool down during Orgo, go ham during the rest of the summer, and again constantly during the year, more during the summer, etc. until I graduate. Doesn't seem too flaky...

PI's also know I have Orgo during summer.
 
HopelessGirl said:
I can start now, cool down during Orgo, go ham during the rest of the summer, and again constantly during the year, more during the summer, etc. until I graduate. Doesn't seem too flaky...

PI's also know I have Orgo during summer.
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The PI knows you have orgo during the summer -- do you think he/she will care? Listen you are a student. Which means when you show up to lab, whoever gets to 'mentor' you will have 2x's extra work because you will be slowing them down. AND consuming lab resources secondary to your failed experiments. If you are going to be coming and going, nobody's going to want to bother with you. If the lab is nice, then no one will say anything to your FACE, but people will still talk about it behind your back. Trust me I've had FIVE undergrad students over the course of my PhD I would know. If you think you can go to lab constantly during the year you're dreaming. When I was in undergrad I went to lab Monday Wednesday Friday but often times had to make up time on the weekends. I literally spent every second not in lab studying because I was spending so much time in lab. We've already established that you're not the strongest person when it comes to academics. When your grades start faltering you will be AGAIN forced to drop something -- my guess is that lab will go first. Undergrads always overestimate their own ability and underestimate the intensity of coursework.

My point was that you don't lose anything by starting AFTER orgo. Trust me it's not like you can do anything productive in a quarter ANYWAY. It will make you seem much less like a giant flake if you start and can continue without giant 8 week gaps.
 
crimsonkid85 said:
The PI knows you have orgo during the summer -- do you think he/she will care? Listen you are a student. Which means when you show up to lab, whoever gets to 'mentor' you will have 2x's extra work because you will be slowing them down. AND consuming lab resources secondary to your failed experiments. If you are going to be coming and going, nobody's going to want to bother with you. If the lab is nice, then no one will say anything to your FACE, but people will still talk about it behind your back. Trust me I've had FIVE undergrad students over the course of my PhD I would know. If you think you can go to lab constantly during the year you're dreaming. We've already established that you're not the strongest person when it comes to academics. When your grades start faltering you will be AGAIN forced to drop something -- my guess is that lab will go first. Undergrads always overestimate their own ability and underestimate the intensity of coursework.
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The reason I ask is because I plan to apply for grants (for the lab) and deadlines are coming up. And no, research would be the last thing I drop, after one class, and a few other EC's.
 
HopelessGirl said:
The reason I ask is because I plan to apply for grants (for the lab) and deadlines are coming up. And no, research would be the last thing I drop, after one class, and a few other EC's.
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Trust me, whatever grants you're applying to is more of a practice experience for YOU than any true benefit to the lab. Do you know how much things cost in lab? From plates of cells to lysing them to antibodies for IPs to gels to the membrane and antibodies for western blotting, EACH time you fail at your experiment that will be a few hundred dollars. This is not even including animal costs (usually ~70cents per cage PER DAY maintenance fee). Unless your grant is for $100K, it really doesn't even matter. It's far more important impressing your PI by doing solid experiments and actually generating usable data.
 
crimsonkid85 said:
Trust me, whatever grants you're applying to is more of a practice experience for YOU than any true benefit to the lab. Do you know how much things cost in lab? From plates of cells to lysing them to antibodies for IPs to gels to the membrane and antibodies for western blotting, EACH time you fail at your experiment that will be a few hundred dollars. This is not even including animal costs (usually ~70cents per cage PER DAY maintenance fee). Unless your grant is for $100K, it really doesn't even matter. It's far more important impressing your PI by doing solid experiments and actually generating usable data.
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So I shouldn't do research like most other premeds?
 
HopelessGirl said:
So I shouldn't do research like most other premeds?
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Sigh. Do you even read what I write. I said -- DO research, just start AFTER orgo so you won't have an absence in lab of two MONTHS. If you think it won't make a difference, by all means start whenever you like, lol.
 
crimsonkid85 said:
Sigh. Do you even read what I write. I said -- DO research, just start AFTER orgo so you won't have an absence in lab of two MONTHS. If you think it won't make a difference, by all means start whenever you like, lol.
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Okay, I understand I just thought the sooner the better. Also, from working in a lab last summer, I noticed there is lots... lots of downtime. I'm pretty sure Orgo + Lab wouldn't be that terrible, especially since I've been through Orgo 1 once.
 
HopelessGirl said:
Okay, I understand I just thought the sooner the better. Also, from working in a lab last summer, I noticed there is lots... lots of downtime. I'm pretty sure Orgo + Lab wouldn't be that terrible, especially since I've been through Orgo 1 once.
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Well that I can't tell you because I don't know how much time you will need to study. As for downtime in lab, if you are running multiple experiments at the same time, you shouldn't have any downtime.
 
crimsonkid85 said:
Well that I can't tell you because I don't know how much time you will need to study. As for downtime in lab, if you are running multiple experiments at the same time, you shouldn't have any downtime.
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Ah I see, yeah I probably won't have time. :/
 
crimsonkid85 said:
Well that I can't tell you because I don't know how much time you will need to study. As for downtime in lab, if you are running multiple experiments at the same time, you shouldn't have any downtime.
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Well, besides starting after Orgo, do you think I should just help with the lab or almost be completely on my own?
 
HopelessGirl said:
Well, besides starting after Orgo, do you think I should just help with the lab or almost be completely on my own?
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Well, your ability to be independent in lab is entirely up to you. I have seen the entire gamut. A friend of mine lived and breathed lab and published a first author nature immunology paper in undergrad. She also almost failed out of college as a result, so it wasn't that helpful. I didn't publish a first author paper but I was able to contribute to two large projects which culminated in publication and one smaller project which I completed entirely by myself with minimal oversight by a graduate student, and I was second author on that. I didn't do spectacularly in terms of grades because I was spending about 60-70 hrs a week between lab and extracurriculars, but I was a solid A/A- student. So again-- everything is up to your own ability, your own drive, and your own hands.
 
crimsonkid85 said:
Well, your ability to be independent in lab is entirely up to you. I have seen the entire gamut. A friend of mine lived and breathed lab and published a first author nature immunology paper in undergrad. She also almost failed out of college as a result, so it wasn't that helpful. I didn't publish a first author paper but I was able to contribute to two large projects which culminated in publication and one smaller project which I completed entirely by myself with minimal oversight by a graduate student, and I was second author on that. I didn't do spectacularly in terms of grades because I was spending about 60-70 hrs a week between lab and extracurriculars, but I was a solid A/A- student. So again-- everything is up to your own ability, your own drive, and your own hands.
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Oh wow, so if I'm not that passionate/only going to lab twice a weak, I should just volunteer/help?
 
HopelessGirl said:
Oh wow, so if I'm not that passionate/only going to lab twice a weak, I should just volunteer/help?
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what are you trying to get out of lab by going twice a week?? you might as well spend that time doing something you're more passionate about. I have voted for plenty of applicants with ZERO research -- they just spent their time productively doing something else. research is by no means a 'requirement' for medical school admissions.
 
crimsonkid85 said:
what are you trying to get out of lab by going twice a week?? you might as well spend that time doing something you're more passionate about. I have voted for plenty of applicants with ZERO research -- they just spent their time productively doing something else. research is by no means a 'requirement' for medical school admissions.
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Well I usually have labs/quizzes for my classes (Biology) that usually go until 8 so those days I can't go to lab which only leaves 3 days. I do want to do it though... I just won't be able to go most days until maybe junior year (again a few labs).
 
i think u just need to be more productive with your time. you have down time, right? so wake up at 6am, go to lab, set up your experiment, go to class (usually at 9am right?), if you have 30 minutes down time, move your experiment forward, then finish up after 8pm.
 
crimsonkid85 said:
i think u just need to be more productive with your time. you have down time, right? so wake up at 6am, go to lab, set up your experiment, go to class (usually at 9am right?), if you have 30 minutes down time, move your experiment forward, then finish up after 8pm.
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The problem with that is that most undergrads here go to a lab that is 30 minutes away by shuttle.
 
But yes, at least once a week I can go between classes + night quizzes for about 2 hours.
 
HopelessGirl said:
The problem with that is that most undergrads here go to a lab that is 30 minutes away by shuttle.
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shoulda thought of that when you signed up for a lab. :/ sorry i can offer advice, but i can't work miracles
 
Haha, I am willing of course to go in mornings and afternoons or even nights. Whatever it takes! Thanks for the advice!
 
crimsonkid85 said:
shoulda thought of that when you signed up for a lab. :/ sorry i can offer advice, but i can't work miracles
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Ideally, how many hours does an undergraduate spend in a lab a week doing productive research?
 
HopelessGirl said:
Ideally, how many hours does an undergraduate spend in a lab a week doing productive research?
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it's not about how many hours you spend in lab. it's about how productive you are in lab. some students sit there all day and don't do anything. some try to do things and end up contaminating everything at which point I relegate them to 'observership status.' some are extremely talented and I just leave a sheet of paper with instructions and trust that they will take care of everything.

that being said, i started working in lab the summer of my sophomore year -- and by application season fall of senior year I had three in press papers. I would say during the school year I worked 3-4d/wk usually after class ended at 2pm until 8-10pm, and then 1-2 days on the weekend 8hrs each day, never exceeding 5 total days/wk (total ~40hrs/wk). During the summer I worked in lab 6 days a week from 7am until 7pm (occasionally bleeding into 9-10pm-ish), and usually sundays I went into lab for around 8 hours or so. (we all need a break sometimes!)
 
crimsonkid85 said:
it's not about how many hours you spend in lab. it's about how productive you are in lab. some students sit there all day and don't do anything. some try to do things and end up contaminating everything at which point I relegate them to 'observership status.' some are extremely talented and I just leave a sheet of paper with instructions and trust that they will take care of everything.

that being said, i started working in lab the summer of my sophomore year -- and by application season fall of senior year I had three in press papers. I would say during the school year I worked 3-4d/wk usually after class ended at 2pm until 8-10pm, and then 1-2 days on the weekend 8hrs each day, never exceeding 5 total days/wk (total ~40hrs/wk). During the summer I worked in lab 6 days a week from 7am until 7pm (occasionally bleeding into 9-10pm-ish), and usually sundays I went into lab for around 8 hours or so. (we all need a break sometimes!)
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Oh wow, that's a lot! You must be smart to still do so well in your classes.
 
HopelessGirl said:
Oh wow, that's a lot! You must be smart to still do so well in your classes.
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eh A/A-'s. not exactly anything to write home about. my girlfriend at the time graduated summa cum laude in three years...AND published lol. ah wells. there's always people smarter/talented/more hard working than me.
 
HopelessGirl said:
That goes 3x as fast. :/
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It's still one class. I wouldn't take more than 3 in one summer due to the increased pace, but one class + whatever else you want to do is absolutely fine. A single class is an extracurricular (other than the academic root of the word 'curricular')...it shouldn't be the main thing you are DOING, ever.
 
crimsonkid85 said:
eh A/A-'s. not exactly anything to write home about. my girlfriend at the time graduated summa cum laude in three years...AND published lol. ah wells. there's always people smarter/talented/more hard working than me.
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Everyone here is smarter than me. 😉
 
mehc012 said:
It's still one class. I wouldn't take more than 3 in one summer due to the increased pace, but one class + whatever else you want to do is absolutely fine. A single class is an extracurricular (other than the academic root of the word 'curricular')...it shouldn't be the main thing you are DOING, ever.
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I understand, but people take 3 here as a full time student so one that goes 3x the pace + requires so much memorization takes a lot more time than 3 regular paced-non orgo classes.
 
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