SUNY Upstate - Probation Alert

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....and that course is also actively being modified and improved as students voiced their concerns about it and the faculty and deans here stepped up to the plate and addressed it.
Just so everyone else knows, the stepping-up-to-the-plate only occurred after everyone turned themselves in; not at the beginning of the year when complaints about the course changes were made, or when the 4th year class decided to boycott new student interviews (which was never even acknowledged by the administration). Until it became a big deal students were nearly completely ignored.

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Next, the cheating incident: The students accused went through full remediation. Those students were 4th year students, and they are now in residency programs across the country. The cheating accusations were only in regards to one course in the 4th year, and that course is also actively being modified and improved as students voiced their concerns about it and the faculty and deans here stepped up to the plate and addressed it.
Why not take the time to point out that the vast majority of people who turned themselves in among the 4th years........did not actually cheat. Most of it was to force the administration's hand and address the problems that were being ignored. Not quite the epitome of unethical behavior that so many have portrayed them as.
 
Why not take the time to point out that the vast majority of people who turned themselves in among the 4th years........did not actually cheat.

wow if true, i don't know what's worse: a cheating scandal or an administration that would throw its students under the bus like that.
 
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SUNY Upstate in Syracuse is officially going under probation by the LCME. :scared:The current dean of the medical school has resigned today.

I wanted to alert the general pre-medical community about the recent developments. I myself attended this medical school and am now a resident. There's been much controversy over the last 2-3 years or so with much of the curriculum. In fact, a majority of last year's graduating class was accused of cheating on a mass scale. This was unprecedented for any U.S. medical school. It did make the news but it occurred during a time of major world news events, and this is why I believe it didn't make national news.

Let's see how this affects interview season...


The problem about this statement is that Upstate is only under a possible probation by the LCME, there will be a final decision in February.
 
This is not cheating to me. Students were presented with a waste of time class that provided nothing in the form of productive medical education (actually detracted from important things) and instead of Upstate acknowledging that they shouldn't impede the fourth year students' away rotations, they call it a "scandal". I thought we were supposed to have a progressive medical education system...
 
This is not cheating to me. Students were presented with a waste of time class that provided nothing in the form of productive medical education (actually detracted from important things) and instead of Upstate acknowledging that they shouldn't impede the fourth year students' away rotations, they call it a "scandal". I thought we were supposed to have a progressive medical education system...

I thought we were supposed to have students with integrity.
 
Just attended the open house and they were fairly open about discussing this matter. Sounds like Upstate is addressing the issues and hopefully things will be worked out by the time I apply. Also, regardless of the accreditation issue or the cheating, I absolutely loved the school from what I saw and I hope to apply in the summer. It looks like a good school and I don't think the accreditation will actually be taken away.
 
Just attended the open house and they were fairly open about discussing this matter. Sounds like Upstate is addressing the issues and hopefully things will be worked out by the time I apply. Also, regardless of the accreditation issue or the cheating, I absolutely loved the school from what I saw and I hope to apply in the summer. It looks like a good school and I don't think the accreditation will actually be taken away.


Yeah I really liked it there when I visited. Everyone was super nice and friendly and I have no doubt in my mind they will overcome this hurdle. Issues like this put things into perspective for the administrators, so hopefully they will realize that classes on "professionalism" or whatever are absolute nonsense and they will start focus improving their medical education.
 
The posts in response to this article: http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/10/upstates_medical_school_may_be.html
make me nervous.
Some highlights: From SyrAlum2011 "UpstateMd and Dancomm address some of the core issues within Upstate Medical University: lack of ANY oversight of upper management/leadership by the State of New York.

Lynn Clearly, Dean of Curriculum, failed on so many levels in the management and oversight of the medical student curriculum, she, herself, offered to resign when the initial report of possible suspension came to light. The Dean (or ex-dean now), while guilty of many sins, played the puppet to President Smith. The only reason Smith kept him as Dean was the need of Smiths need for a point person for his own failures and lack of competence.

Duggan was forced to step down as Chair, Department of Medicine, given a courtesy title of power within the hospital, now is being placed in the seat of interim Dean? He will 'oversee' his wife's (Cleary) failures? (This recipe smells familiar - ie, Smith hiring his wife to Chair a newly created department without a national search, and for which she holds woefully inadequate credentials.)

What the article fails to emphasize is UMU President Smith's role in the failed oversight of the medical school and management of University Hospital including the bullying of critics that has invited litigation against the institution. Smith has ushered in an era of intimidation tactics, release of employment threats and nepotism (for example, his wife to a new Chair position, Duggan and his wife) and annihilation of loyal dissent (including the termination of whistleblowers alerting the community and NYS DOH to hazardous conditions at UH) and now, national disgrace for the undergraduate medical program.

One is left to wonder: when will the stewards of SUNY-UMU wake up and address the essential failures and misdeeds of the chief executive? Where are SUNY Central, the Chancellor, the Trustees, the local and state press, responsible SUNY-UMU faculty and the community that depend so much on the solidity of the region's teaching-safety net hospital.

Probation for UMU and the associated national embarrassment signal the tipping point for the Smith administration. Syracuse, CNY and SUNY are well overdue to show this Cowboy and his cronies the stagecoach out of town."

From SDPlissKin: "It's not just the Academic end either. I know folks working at CGH and Upstate and they all say the same thing, management ought to be locked up in the psych ward with the rest of the crazy people. Policy changes on an almost weekly basis with no warning and seemingly no logic; minimum care standards aren't being met. Staff is over taxed and departments are at each other's throats. They need to fire ALL the management staff above a certain level and bring in anybody else."

From emanon1: "S.D. The union of CG and SUNY is a shotgun wedding at best. Regarding your comment about managerial skills, most hospital managers are people who have never had any proper training in the motivation and management of people other than the hospitals own inadequate, myopic, self developed in services. Upstate has some very capable physicians, they also have an effective mechanism of political debauchery which thwarts what is right in favor of what isn't. One physician, a kind and talented man, tried to make sure his residents had enough sleep to perform their tasks safely. The hospital ran him out on a rail, now he's in charge at another hospital of prominence. We lost his remarkable humanity and skill because he dared to do what's right and that my friends is truly what is wrong with SUNY."

and a lot of posts about how dirty Upstate is... yikes! Syracuse was my first choice after interviewing but now I'm reconsidering.

Please, respond 3rd year prez. Doesn't sound like the school is getting their administrative ducks in a row if they are promoting top adminstrators' husbands and wives to high level positions. Sounds like they are covering their butts.
 
I have heard about this. Between Upstate, UTSA, and the crash and burn that was San Juan Bautista, it looks like the LCME is really cracking down. I'm just hopeful that all of the students involved in this mix up find their way without much trouble.

yeah i just hope schools don't start adding more PBL and TBL crap into the curriculum to make the LCME happy.
 
yeah i just hope schools don't start adding more PBL and TBL crap into the curriculum to make the LCME happy.

+1

The LCME should pay far more attention to attrition rates, USMLE scores, student wellness, and postgraduate placement rather than cirriculum and university bureaucracy when evaluating schools. If a school that has traditional lectures 8 hours a day with no PBL/TBL or clinical integration during preclinical years yet produces graduates with high board scores and has a solid matchlist then why should it be concerned about changing a cirriculum that clearly works?

On another note, does anyone have "inside information" as to what schools might be faced with probations in the future? Are there any schools out there right now with problems similar exhibited by SUNY-Upstate, UTSA, etc?
 
As an alumni, I could have predicted Upstate was going to have some major problems. Their hospital is a disaster especially the medicine department. At least 20 people in each class seem to run into some obstacle due to administrative issues. They need to gut the administration and some of the educational staff. As a medical student I felt sorry for some of the staff having to put up with some of the politics.
 
Hi Everyone,

Thank you for your questions and comments.

The atmosphere at Upstate right now is the most exciting it has been in my 3 years on campus. The leadership and faculty are extremely motivated to fix what needs fixing, and improve upon the stuff we already do pretty well.

BeckySharp - Here is a link from our website regarding the search process for the Senior Vice President and Dean of the College of Medicine: http://www.upstate.edu/dean/deansearch/. I sit on the committee and have been very impressed with the process.

In an earlier post, I didn't mean to imply that the LCME citations only related to administrative stuff. There were other issues (which have since been addressed).

Regarding the education, my class averaged 230 on step 1 (national average is usually around 222-224 last time I checked). We have been doing some exciting stuff outside the classroom as well. Check out this blog: http://blogs.upstate.edu/withdistinction/

I know this probably reads like pure promotion of Upstate. On the inside, we are more critical of our leadership than anyone else. While things are not perfect, they are responding. We've seen courses in the first two years modified based on student feedback. In the 3rd year, some clerkships are excellent across the board. Others were modified during the year based on student feedback. Other clerkships aren't quite there yet, but if things continue the way they are going, I anticipate more improvements will be made by the time any of you hit the wards here.

A few of you have e-mailed me, and I was able to clear up questions for those individuals. Feel free to shoot me questions at [email protected] about Upstate, or just applying to med school in general.

-Sam
 
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