surgeons payment

[pipa]

Just for information: When surgeons do procedures in the hospital, does the hospital pay them too? I know they bill the patient. As an example: how much do they bill a patient and how much can they get from the hospital from a total knee surgery.. offcourse it the cost will vary but just an average.

Thank you

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[Winged Scapula]

Just for information: When surgeons do procedures in the hospital, does the hospital pay them too? I know they bill the patient. As an example: how much do they bill a patient and how much can they get from the hospital from a total knee surgery.. offcourse it the cost will vary but just an average.

Thank you

If the surgeon is a hospital employee, he will get a paycheck from the hospital just like any other job (ie, every 2 weeks/monthly, taxes taken out etc). There are myriad payment structures but the surgeon cannot bill the patient and be paid by the hospital for doing the same procedure. Typically a hospital employed surgeon will code the procedure, the hospital will bill and the surgeon will be paid as per his/her contract.

If the surgeon is in private/group practice (ie, not a hospital employee), then they bill the patient for the services they rendered and the hospital bills separately for their services.

The surgeon and the hospital can bill whatever they like but there are CMS payment schedules based on procedure code and location (eg, state). Private insurance will pay some percentage of that reimbursement schedule. Unless you are a cash only practice (unusual except for a few specialties) if you accept insurance, you agree to accept their reimbursement schedule and cannot bill the patient for the difference between what you bill and what you receive. A typical billing to reimbursement schedule ratio would be 2.5:1.

 

[JackADeli]

...A typical billing to reimbursement schedule ratio would be 2.5:1.

It hurts hard!!!

This is why more and more moving towards employment as opposed to private practice. What you bill as physician fees must go to pay clinic/office rent, all staff, utilities, etc.... Generally, if employed, the overhead (including staff i.e. nurse, PA, NP) is covered by hospital... you just have to negotiate you salary.

 

[SoClose]

You guys are so short sighted and borderline communist. Do you not understand economics or accounting at all? As Surgeons we are profit centers. For ourselves, or for our group, or for the hospital we work for. WE cover overhead (Staff, facilities, materials, etc....) by the labor of our hands. Period. Hoe you slice it and dice it is another story all together. But not much happens in regards to billable services until we get involved.

 

[naus]

Someday nurses will make more than orthopedic surgeons.

You may be a profit center, but politics has a bigger hammer. Looking at our demographics, I fully expect doctors to be paid as much as those in Latin American countries within two short generations. Meanwhile corporate lawyers, MBAs and the well connected continue to rake in millions.

 

[perilou]

Someday nurses will make more than orthopedic surgeons.

 

[GreatSaphenous]

We may be the ones who bring the patients to the hospital and actually do the surgery, but the hospitals have the power to really negotiate reimbursement. Therefore we will all work for them someday.

As a new attending, at times I mourn the autonomy I never even had. However today I read a letter that stated a certain insurance company would be cutting my reimbursement for two frequently billed codes by 20%. Nice to know my work is worth less this year than before. At least as a hospital employee, I am somewhat insulated from this. Who knows what the future holds though.

All for now, go back to your ham and cheese,
I am the Great Saphenous

 

[orthodoctfemur]

As long as I can pay off my loans, thats all im worried about! good thing i didn't go into this for the money i guess. Sounds like a lot is changing.

 

[DHT]

As long as I can pay off my loans, thats all im worried about! good thing i didn't go into this for the money i guess. Sounds like a lot is changing.

Good, then you can send me all your extra cash and I'll gladly accept it. I didn't go into it for the money either and I wouldn't do anything other than ortho...but I'm also not a sucker. Don't forget that you are more intelligent, harder working, and sacrifice far more than the VAST majority of Americans. We all (physicians) deserve to be paid well for it.

 

[pancakesyrup]

Seriously? Orthopedic surgeons are complaining about how "little" they are getting paid?

Some primary care doctors struggle to break 100K.

 

[scottie7397]

Seriously? Orthopedic surgeons are complaining about how "little" they are getting paid?

Some primary care doctors struggle to break 100K.

No primary care doc is making less than 100k.

 

[MossPoh]

No primary care doc is making less than 100k.

I'm sure you could find at least one primary care doc in this country making less than 100k a year. Note that the previous comment did not mention that they were working the same hours.

 

[BlackHouse]

Seriously? Orthopedic surgeons are complaining about how "little" they are getting paid?

Some primary care doctors struggle to break 100K.

That's a lie.

 

[200UL]

I don't buy that some primary care doctors in practice for an extended period of time are making $100, but if they are, they probably deserve it.

Surgeons who make a lot of money work very hard (see many patients, do many surgeries).

I have also thought many times about the fact that nursing incomes continue to go up as physician incomes continue to go down.

Insurance companies / medicare often times don't see the big picture reaction to their actions. Cutting your reimbursement 20% will probably force you to do 20% more procedures (you probably will want to make up the 20% drop in pay). The problem is that because the surgeons pay is the smallest cost in the entire bill for a surgical procedure, cost will actually go up.

If doctors were paid nothing, the medicare would still go bankrupt.

 

[Mr. Freeze]

As long as I can pay off my loans, thats all im worried about! good thing i didn't go into this for the money i guess. Sounds like a lot is changing.

Sounds like you're ok with it doing so.

blah, blah, blah PCP's are poor, blah blah I'm a pre-med blah blah

They had they same opportunities as the rest of us to become surgeons. Unless of course, they lack the hand-eye coordination, the stamina, or more likely, the scores. After 4 years of medical school, most of us can swab a throat or write a lisinopril script. None of us can put a total knee in flawlessly.

Of course ortho gets paid more. The ones who should bitch are the general surgeons, who train just as long, are technically skilled, still make less, and get covered with poo.

You might reserve comments about your thoughts on compensation until after you've begun the training required to be out and making the salaries you refer to. Or not.

And if we are just going to throw out numbers without any appropriate work hours comparisons, I can name at least one orthopod making less than 100K.

 

[pancakesyrup]

I take back that comment.......I don't know what I was thinking when I made that remark.....I think it was the comment about nurses that ticked me off.

Anyway with a 55 hr workweek I think they should be making at least 350K......anything less and they have the right to complain.