Surgical Oncology?

[Merely]

You need thicker skin

You need to stop perpetuating the obvious, rampant attitudes that result in people not having their questions answered. If you honestly think I'm upset by any of this, you are quite mistaken. I just simply want more knowledge to be at the fingertips of more people and the attitude which silences new questions, regardless of how naive they might be, is not helping that goal.

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[Entadus]

Yeah, @southernIM , Merely is just trying to expand our horizons. Cut him some slack

 

[W19]

Where in my post did I ever even insinuate that I was interested in this career or cared so much about money? I don't know if you're aware, but it is possible to inquire and try to learn things that don't directly pertain to you or your current situation.

Even if you were, what's wrong with that?

 

[Meh.meh]

LOL, let's take a moment to compare your condescending responses to me versus your tone (you apologized) when you spoke with the resident. Some people on here are hilarious.

Or maybe you're reading more into either post than it deserves. People on here are a little ridiculous, including me (and you too welcome to the club).

I apologized for thinking he was a pre-med when he was a resident. I don't feel particularly bad, the question was stupid. However, a resident deserves at least some respect for being above me on the food chain and for what he's accomplished so far. I am a little speculative of his "resident" status, but I'll take his word for it.

I have a hell of a lot more respect for residents than I do for you, just by the merit of what they've accomplished so far. I also respect my PhD professors for their accomplishments.

I don't have much respect for a college student by merit of the fact that they're a college student. The entitled whining gets a little old.

 

[Entadus]

Even if you were, what's wrong with that?

Oh jeeze. Why must you open Pandora's box?

 

[Merely]

lol

 

[witzelsucht]

Someone already mentioned this, but just to see the actual numbers

$320k salary after tax - $183, 820
$380k salary after tax - $214, 646

So giving up 2 years of $320k for fellowship to make $60k a year as a fellow and then $380 after means...lets see. It would take the specialist earning $380... twelve years to catch up to the "lower" paid guy, and that's not even calculating things like missed 401k contributions, increased student loan interest, etc.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

You need to stop perpetuating the obvious, rampant attitudes that result in people not having their questions answered. If you honestly think I'm upset by any of this, you are quite mistaken. I just simply want more knowledge to be at the fingertips of more people and the attitude which silences new questions, regardless of how naive they might be, is not helping that goal.

He's just giving general advice for your general surgery rotation and residency.

 

[Meh.meh]

He's just giving general advice for your general surgery rotation and residency.

He's putting the information at your fingertips. He's ending the attitude that silences questions.

 

[fancymylotus]

Or maybe you're reading more into either post than it deserves. People on here are a little ridiculous, including me (and you too welcome to the club).

I apologized for thinking he was a pre-med when he was a resident. I don't feel particularly bad, the question was stupid. However, a resident deserves at least some respect for being above me on the food chain and for what he's accomplished so far. I am a little speculative of his "resident" status, but I'll take his word for it.

I have a hell of a lot more respect for residents than I do for you, just by the merit of what they've accomplished so far. I also respect my PhD professors for their accomplishments.

I don't have much respect for a college student by merit of the fact that they're a college student. The entitled whining gets a little old.

Entitled whining never gets old. It's actually pretty effective! :X

 

[Meh.meh]

Entitled whining never gets old. It's actually pretty effective! :X

That probably depends on the gender and attractiveness of who does the whining, and who they are whining to

 

[fancymylotus]

That probably depends on the gender and attractiveness of who does the whining, and who they are whining to

Haha. It works for me, anyway

 

[masaraksh]

That should be my signature.

I want to buy his and hers louboutins. Red bottom heel heaven. I just don't think he's gonna wear them ><

so why do you like shoes that are expensive and

Are you deliberately being obtuse? I asked for information for myself and for others (since this is public, shocker) to learn, not because I want to be "swimming in money." It is interesting that you, and many others, but definitely not all, have a certain attitude towards those who "rank" lower than you, so to speak. You want to essentially tell me that I shouldn't ask certain questions because it "shouldn't matter." Well, it does matter to me. It matters because I want to learn. I want others who are reading this to learn and expand their horizons. Telling me that I shouldn't ask questions that are completely relevant to the topic, is neither constructive nor necessary. You, and others who think like you, have not contributed anything beneficial to this conversation and I don't see the reason you're even on this thread since obviously you don't want to learn because you're "too far out." If you had approached me with less arrogance and more empathy, by telling me that money should not be my primary motivation, without implying that it is, then you would be giving solid advice to those (premeds) who need to hear it. However, assuming without any reason, that I just want money and am only here because I want lambos or whatevers else you said is pointless. Bottom line: stop wasting space and time that could be used for constructive, beneficial advice given to people who are either genuinely curious or those who have serious decisions to make.

Lets be super constructive guys.

You will likely make 341,902 +/- 16,183 which is greater than the 284,483 +/- 12,947 that you would make as a general surgeon. However, a surgical oncology fellowship is 2 years +/- 30-50 days long. Chances of getting a surg onc fellowship range from 0-100%.

 

[fancymylotus]

I...what? You do realize that 300 or 350 or 400k pre tax isn't as much money as it looks like it is, right?



...Believe me, I know. ><

 

[masaraksh]

You shouldn't be asking that, you're like a decade away from that decision. Go study histology.

Have you finished fractions and moved on to pre-algebra, yet?

 

[RJGOP]

I mean it all kind of depends. Plastics definitely has a way higher salary than general surgery - but some of that is because they take a lot of self-paying patients, and don't really have very much/any medicare/uninsured patients.

The salaries are fairly similar for like surg onc, breast, and colorectal because they have a lot of overlap in the types of cases they perform.

Bariatrics/MIS earns pretty well these days because the RVUs are fairly high for a sleeve and that case takes an experienced surgeon an hour or less to do.

When I say weird quirks - it's stuff like if you do a ventral hernia repair with component separation, the component separation bumps up the RVUs tremendously, even though it only adds like 10-20 minutes to the case (but its a "complex myocutaneous flap").

But basically in current/traditional payment systems, any field where the salary is exorbitant is because they've found a spot where there is a disproportionately high RVU (e.g. spine surgery when you used to be able to bill for every level, GI where you can do like 25 colonoscopies in a day).

Doesn't endocrine typically make less than general surgery? Is that typically the only GS subspecilaty that has poorer reimbursment than plain GS. Just curious.

 

[Winged Scapula]

1) please stop the squabbling; its annoying and in those cases where you're insulting each other, against the TOS
2) it is very easy to make different amounts each year in PP and in an employed position with production bonus; therefore, one year you might make a $50K difference. $100K? Perhaps if something significantly changed (ie, significant drop in patient volume, or more likely, drop in reimbursement for a CPT you do frequently)
3) normal people can live very nicely on $300K or $350 or $380; what difference does it make whether its one or the other? This is very strange to me to see people arguing about such.
4) I don't know what others make outside of my group; its rude to ask and I have no interest in finding out but for employed physicians at state facilities, usually this is a matter of public record so you should feel free to research it (or ask your attendings, I'm sure they'll love to have that conversation).

 

[Slack3r]

I mean it all kind of depends. Plastics definitely has a way higher salary than general surgery - but some of that is because they take a lot of self-paying patients, and don't really have very much/any medicare/uninsured patients.

I was under the impression that, by RVUs, recon cases actually paid like **** when you factor in the time it takes, plus all the follow-up care (in the 90-day window no less!).

But basically in current/traditional payment systems, any field where the salary is exorbitant is because they've found a spot where there is a disproportionately high RVU (e.g. spine surgery when you used to be able to bill for every level, GI where you can do like 25 colonoscopies in a day).

Which conveniently puts a nice target on your back for CMS.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I was under the impression that, by RVUs, recon cases actually paid like **** when you factor in the time it takes, plus all the follow-up care (in the 90-day window no less!).

You are correct. There is a reason that many PRS do not like recon cases: poor reimbursement for time involved, the global period, the high rate of complications (radiated tissue), patients who don't pay their deductible and the fact that they all become cosmetic patients in the end. When the economy is good, I can have some difficulty finding someone to do breast recon for all of the above.

@southernIM is noting that PRS makes more on the aesthetic cases because its cash pay; in addition, they will often do procedures in an ASC co-owned by them or even in a suite in their own office (making the facility fee in addition to the technical).

 

[tima]

I like internet fights. Where's the popcorn?

 

[freemontie]

Some of you need to give @mikejones212 more respect. None of you can go from being an undergrad to a surgery resident in the span of 3 days. Maybe the fact that he only likes posts written by @Merely will give you insight into how he's accomplished so much.

 

[DermViser]

Banned?!?!

 

[DermViser]

TOS #16. Don't be a poser.

Ah, an undergrad looking for research who is now a General Surgery resident. Reminds me for some reason of the quote: "Everybody wanna be a general surgery resident, but don't nobody wanna lift no heavy *** weight!" (ok it's actually bodybuilder, but you get the idea)

 

[CherryRedDracul]

Ah, an undergrad looking for research who is now a General Surgery resident. Reminds me for some reason of the quote: "Everybody wanna be a general surgery resident, but don't nobody wanna lift no heavy *** weight!" (ok it's actually bodybuilder, but you get the idea)

I think that's a quote from Ronnie Coleman, MD.