Surgical Rotation

[CoronaBOY]

hey guys...

i was just wondering how long is the average shift during surgical rotation?

and can any one tell me average shift hour for any type of rotation?

thanks

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[hotbovie]

Kind of depends on what the expectations are for students at your school. If you are expected to preround (ie see patients and write notes before the residents do) your hours will be longer on any rotation. It also depends what time you are expected to have your notes done by.

So when I was on medicine, I got to the hospital by about 6:30, and left at about 5 unless we were on call. Students take overnight call, so how much sleep you get depends on how busy the service is and how many admissions you get. Then we had to put in the full day post call as well.

Surgery last year I had to get in earlier, as we were seeing more pts and had to have notes done before OR time at 7:30. So I'd arrive at 5:30ish. We'd leave between 6 - 8 pm (varied depending on how busy the service is and how efficent the residents, esp the chief is) or so, again, unless you are on call, in which case you may or may not be up all night and then put in the full day the next day. WE also did some trauma, which was 24 hours on/24 hours off

Having said that, those were my hours last year. These new work hour regulations have affected all services, and most of them are experimenting with new schedules this year in order to be in compliance last year. That then trickles down and affects student schedules. (eg no more q2 call) it's still a work in progress, some services have changed scheduling again becuse the first new plan didn't work well. This year is definitely a transition year in terms of schedule.

 

[southerndoc]

Breast/General Surgery: 4:30-5 am to 3 pm or so
Colorectal Surgery: 4 am to 5 pm or so
Trauma Surgery: 3:30-4 am to 5- 8 pm (rarely do you get out at 5 pm)

We are required to carry a minimum of 5 patients at any time (provided we have enough patients -- breast/general surgery team d/c's pretty quickly, so you may not have enough floor patients to follow with multiple students on). There is always a ton of patients on trauma service, and even with multiple students, following 7-10 patients at any one time is not unheard of.

Call is q 3 throughout. You spend 3 weeks on each team except for one (which is 2 weeks long). We spend 8 weeks total on surgery, and you're randomly assigned to the teams you get.

We aren't expected to write notes on patients on the weekend unless we are on call. Call is always overnight call. We do not get to go home early post-call. (Nothing like being up on trauma call from 3:30 one morning to 8 pm the next day!)

Most weeks I had 100+ hours in. The most was 119 hours.

 

[CoronaBOY]

thank you so much guys for inputs...

i asked cuz i'm hearing alot of 32 straight hrs shift during some of the rotation...

ok...here's the deal...I have a dog...(yeah yeah... i can't have a dog during med school...and so on...i heard all)

there's no one who can take care of my boy...no not my parents cuz my mom is allergic to dogs...

and i have no intension what so ever to dump him to someone...

can anyone give me some insight about this?

thanks...i know it's pretty dumb Q but...still...=)

 

[abw]

Hey!
First of all, let me put in a disclaimer to say i'm not insane knowing all this stuff, my mom just thinks our pets are her second children. - You can get a pet sitter - in my area, they'll give a pet an hour's worth of time for $10. You might be able to negotiate a deal for shorter amounts of time. Many of them are nationally certified/insured or something like that to prove they won't kill your dog/steal your stuff. If that's too much, you might want to go to a local school in the area to try to find a responsible high school kid/college kid for cheaper (similar to how parents ask colleges/high schools for baby sitters). Similarly, they have a thing called "doggy day care" similar to child care. The dogs get to play with other dogs and trainers all day, however it gets really pricey. hope that helps!!

 

[Jim Picotte]

Well as you won't be doing any rotations this year, you're in luck as the new rules will be going into effect July 1, 2003. So here's the deal, expect to be on call every 4 days in surgery, medicine, OB/GYN and likely part of pediatrics. Expect to work 10-12 hour days when not on call and expect to work 30 straight hours while on call hopefully with some rest. It'll probably be a little better depending on the rotation, but hey...expect the worst and you'll be happy if it's better.

You have to be less than 80 hours a week WITH call so you won't be doing q3's unless you get a bunch of time off somewhere in the month as it's 80 hours averaged over 4 weeks.

It's a pain, but not terrible. You'll need to find someone to help with the dog.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Pardon me for butting in, but since RRC rules don't apply to medical students (I believe), I'm not sure that the OP can count on the regulations being applied to her. This would be highly program dependent, of course, but I don't believe anyone would feel forced to apply them to medical students.

Just my two cents as I noticed a medical student falling asleep today in our 5 pm conference...she was post-call and still here when the resident on-call last night was home relaxing!

 

[southerndoc]

Doggie day care? Oy.

Here's a cheaper alternative:

1. Put doggie outside in a fenced area so he won't **** on your carpet while you're away.

2. Buy a bowl and fill with water -- allows doggie to drink at will.

3. Buy a feed bin and fill with doggie food -- allows doggie to eat when necessary. (They make commercial feeders that will allow the dog to eat when he wants. They also make some that dispense food at timed intervals so the dog doesn't eat too much.)

The above options are much cheaper than doggie day care, but they don't come with the luxuries of doggie day care (bragging rights, air conditioning for the dog, toenail trimming, psychosocial interaction with other doggies, pre-D doggie programs, reading, arithmetic, etc.)

 

[Castro Viejo]

Interesting.

I read up on policies regarding medical students and work-hours while on a clinical service.

Kim's right. RRC rules don't necessarily apply to medical students. In fact when I took the surgical clerkship in New York (where we have Bell Commission regulations, the so-called "405" regulations), I stayed post-call until 6 or 7PM while the team I was on-call with went home around 11AM.

Anyway for med students there is no nationally-set policy either by the AAMC or some other authorized body regarding work hours. In New York State, or so I've been told, because med students are NOT directly involved in the care of patients (i.e., making decisions), 405 rules don't apply. Med schools have full authority to set their own rules if they so choose, and should they not, this responsibility is deferred to the service you're on. This of course means, like everything else in med school, your life will entirely depend on your team.

I argue that 405s should apply to all med students only because it's DAMN hard to suture head lacs, putting in central lines, and performing any other task (heck even "simple" blood draws from the "intern vein") without adequate rest. But, hey, I'm stronger now. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...

 

[Winged Scapula]

Originally posted by ******
But, hey, I'm stronger now. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...

What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger!