Surprise! Drug test

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It's probably not a good idea to smoke the ganja. Even if you gamble on them not testing you automatically (as a condition of rotating there), imagine if you are asked to do one sometime down the road on one of the rotations. Do you really want the stress associated with worrying about whether you abstained long enough to produce a negative result?
 
cbrons said:
It's probably not a good idea to smoke the ganja. Even if you gamble on them not testing you automatically (as a condition of rotating there), imagine if you are asked to do one sometime down the road on one of the rotations. Do you really want the stress associated with worrying about whether you abstained long enough to produce a negative result?
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Unless he smokes all the time it won't take that long to get a negative urine test...and it would be a minor offense at best (due to how many professionals use it)

That being said...a good rule of thumb is abstain from it for a solid 45 days before your piss test (might be overkill if you're not fat). Or don't smoke at all.
 
UAAWolf said:
Unless he smokes all the time it won't take that long to get a negative urine test...and it would be a minor offense at best (due to how many professionals use it)

That being said...a good rule of thumb is abstain from it for a solid 45 days before your piss test (might be overkill if you're not fat). Or don't smoke at all.
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A minor offense is still and offense I would try to avoid. Keep in mind, you are usually held to higher expectations than a lot of other people. Many schools have their drug policy buried in honor codes or other random things that they tell you to read.

It is best to just not blaze for a while. Go have a few beers or partake in stuff you can do legally and without worry of any possible thing that may come up.

One hospital I was at did use the oral swab test, which has a significantly limited period compared to the urine test. Just good to avoid it for a bit though. One day, you can fire up when you aren't on the clock anytime you want.
 
Thanks for the replies guys (and gals). I know that it's not the best idea to blaze up and be in med school at the same time. I'm more curious to know if it's standard policy for most hospitals to randomly (without any notification) drug test students prior to their rotation. I'm also curious to know if the VA system specifically drug tests medical students that are on their wards. What usually happens if someone tests positive for some pot? Do people really get expelled for it?
 
We don't get drug tested at any hospitals we rotate at; including the VA. Your best bet would be to ask a 4th year student at your school about it; unfortunately that immediately brands you as a pothead.
 
or you could grow up and do coke like an adult
 
tumblr_l9ev4aoqRn1qc0m6fo1_1280.jpg
 
I don't think many med schools routinely test all students. Some hospitals may, although if you are not an employee the odds are not good that you will be required to do a drug test just to do a short rotation. Testing positive on a drug test is a recipe for disaster and future pain, though. Pretty hard to get sympathy from others for failing a drug test. Schools can and will expel students for drug offenses, although policies vary wildly.

This does not apply to residency. The vast majority of hospitals will require a drug test, and will do not-so-random "random" drug tests on people they think may be positive.
 
Thanks for the info. Guess I'll just have to wait and see
 
Smurfette said:
I don't think many med schools routinely test all students. Some hospitals may, although if you are not an employee the odds are not good that you will be required to do a drug test just to do a short rotation. Testing positive on a drug test is a recipe for disaster and future pain, though. Pretty hard to get sympathy from others for failing a drug test. Schools can and will expel students for drug offenses, although policies vary wildly.

This does not apply to residency. The vast majority of hospitals will require a drug test, and will do not-so-random "random" drug tests on people they think may be positive.
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If you have to take one, just chug a gallon of water. Or take a "purge" pill from a rhasta shop. Your urine comes back diluted. And you're all like "so? i drink water, sue me." has worked for friends of mine who smoked as medics (which, in retrospect, is a creepy thought, because there were a few times where I questioned if they were high on the job).

In all honesty, Ive never heard of anyone getting piss tested as a physician or medical student. At this point in your life people are more interested in getting you rehabilitated than fired, fixed rather than kicked out, and that's only if there is significant impairment to your daily duties (not habitual weekend fun). Some hospitals (there was one my urology buddy said they would fire him if he tested positive for nicotine) that are extreme, but most aren't. If you haven't been explicitly informed, you probably wont be tested.

Of course, there are those stories of MATCH, where hospitals require HAIR samples for drug screening after matching. Failing means no residency. That would suck. Abstain near match day (30 days before and after). Alcohol provides plenty of love.
 
OveractiveBrain said:
If you have to take one, just chug a gallon of water. Or take a "purge" pill from a rhasta shop. Your urine comes back diluted. And you're all like "so? i drink water, sue me." has worked for friends of mine who smoked as medics (which, in retrospect, is a creepy thought, because there were a few times where I questioned if they were high on the job).

In all honesty, Ive never heard of anyone getting piss tested as a physician or medical student. At this point in your life people are more interested in getting you rehabilitated than fired, fixed rather than kicked out, and that's only if there is significant impairment to your daily duties (not habitual weekend fun). Some hospitals (there was one my urology buddy said they would fire him if he tested positive for nicotine) that are extreme, but most aren't. If you haven't been explicitly informed, you probably wont be tested.

Of course, there are those stories of MATCH, where hospitals require HAIR samples for drug screening after matching. Failing means no residency. That would suck. Abstain near match day (30 days before and after). Alcohol provides plenty of love.
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Don't smoke drugs stay in your hair for years?
 
Do what Christian Bale did in Harsh Times: Drink some vinegar to shut your kidneys down and shoot someone else's pee up your dick with a turkey baster.
 
OveractiveBrain said:
If you have to take one, just chug a gallon of water. Or take a "purge" pill from a rhasta shop. Your urine comes back diluted. And you're all like "so? i drink water, sue me." has worked for friends of mine who smoked as medics (which, in retrospect, is a creepy thought, because there were a few times where I questioned if they were high on the job).

In all honesty, Ive never heard of anyone getting piss tested as a physician or medical student. At this point in your life people are more interested in getting you rehabilitated than fired, fixed rather than kicked out, and that's only if there is significant impairment to your daily duties (not habitual weekend fun). Some hospitals (there was one my urology buddy said they would fire him if he tested positive for nicotine) that are extreme, but most aren't. If you haven't been explicitly informed, you probably wont be tested.

Of course, there are those stories of MATCH, where hospitals require HAIR samples for drug screening after matching. Failing means no residency. That would suck. Abstain near match day (30 days before and after). Alcohol provides plenty of love.
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Yea, it does seem like institutions vary widely in regards to their drug test policies. I know that many (if not all) residency programs will drug test since you are considered an employee at that point, but I wasn't sure if that applied to students as well. I may be dumb enough to smoke some trees in my tree that Xzibit gave me, but I'm smart enough to abstain if I know that there will be a drug test in the near future. I started this thread because I was reading another thread where it mentioned that some folks have been drug tested prior to starting 3rd year. Although I haven't heard anything from my school in regards to this, the fact that I probably would test positive for some pot if I were to take a piss test in the next few weeks made me feel a tad bit nervous.

I'm not sure if many other people are in a similar situation as I am, but I do appreciate everyone's input (tho I probably won't be shooting clean pee into my bladder or snorting coke like the grown ups any time soon).
 
Thread brings the lulz. I know a lot of med students who smoke. And don't think that doctors don't either lol

I'm too paranoid about the drug tests so I don't...sucks. Feelsgoodman
 
Does anybody else think it's ridiculous that as med students we can go out and get completely drunk whenever we want and that's totally fine, but the OP can't smoke a little cannabis during his break without worrying about repercussions?

It is unlikely that you will be tested. And I think asking 4th years is fine--hopefully you know some well enough to know who wouldn't judge you for one simple question. If there's any doubt, though, you don't want to risk it unfortunately. Yet another sacrifice for our career, as unfair as it may be.
 
tigress said:
Does anybody else think it's ridiculous that as med students we can go out and get completely drunk whenever we want and that's totally fine, but the OP can't smoke a little cannabis during his break without worrying about repercussions?
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Not particularly ridiculous. One is legal, the other isn't. And since folks who break the little laws often then find it easier to break slightly bigger laws, MJ has become regarded as a gateway to harder drugs for some people. And since as a physician you are going to have direct access to prescription medication, it's totally reasonable for the higher ups to be comfortable that you are squeaky clean in term of drugs. And that's really all there is to it. You don't give. Chain saw to someone with a history of cutting up people, so you don't want to give a DEA license to someone who has a history of breaking drug related laws. It really doesn't matter that there are perfectly legal, more dangerous things out there. That's a losing argument. There are historical reasons why alcohol and cigarettes are legal and other things aren't, but so what -- you can't break the law and win by saying, gee alcohol is a lot worse. Yes it is, but so what. You get caught doing something that our society has chosen to criminalize and that's the end of the inquiry.
 
Law2Doc said:
Not particularly ridiculous. One is legal, the other isn't. And since folks who break the little laws often then find it easier to break slightly bigger laws, MJ has become regarded as a gateway to harder drugs for some people. And since as a physician you are going to have direct access to prescription medication, it's totally reasonable for the higher ups to be comfortable that you are squeaky clean in term of drugs. And that's really all there is to it. You don't give. Chain saw to someone with a history of cutting up people, so you don't want to give a DEA license to someone who has a history of breaking drug related laws. It really doesn't matter that there are perfectly legal, more dangerous things out there. That's a losing argument. There are historical reasons why alcohol and cigarettes are legal and other things aren't, but so what -- you can't break the law and win by saying, gee alcohol is a lot worse. Yes it is, but so what. You get caught doing something that our society has chosen to criminalize and that's the end of the inquiry.
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This. No matter your opinion on whether it should or should not be legal the fact remains it isn't. Until that changes it is irresponsible and immature to continue using it, especially when it has the potential to affect your professional life.
 
Honestly, its a friggin travesty. I don't know one person that has been hurt by marijuana (outside of them just getting lazy and not doing well in school as a result). For people in medical school who clearly work their asses off, relaxing and smoking when they have one of their only breaks ever should not be discouraged with "random testing". Its borderline torture.

People say that doctors are held at a "higher standard". If I'm held at that higher standard, how about having some respect for my privacy during the period of my life that I am selling my soul for the purpose of becoming a doctor. Jeeeeesus, as if going through medical school wasn't bad enough with the work and cost, this just adds a nice cherry on top.
 
Law2Doc said:
Not particularly ridiculous. One is legal, the other isn't. And since folks who break the little laws often then find it easier to break slightly bigger laws, MJ has become regarded as a gateway to harder drugs for some people. And since as a physician you are going to have direct access to prescription medication, it's totally reasonable for the higher ups to be comfortable that you are squeaky clean in term of drugs. And that's really all there is to it. You don't give. Chain saw to someone with a history of cutting up people, so you don't want to give a DEA license to someone who has a history of breaking drug related laws. It really doesn't matter that there are perfectly legal, more dangerous things out there. That's a losing argument. There are historical reasons why alcohol and cigarettes are legal and other things aren't, but so what -- you can't break the law and win by saying, gee alcohol is a lot worse. Yes it is, but so what. You get caught doing something that our society has chosen to criminalize and that's the end of the inquiry.
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Haha..."historical"...

Man is this country corrupt. It makes me sick.
 
Smurfette said:
I don't think many med schools routinely test all students. Some hospitals may, although if you are not an employee the odds are not good that you will be required to do a drug test just to do a short rotation. Testing positive on a drug test is a recipe for disaster and future pain, though. Pretty hard to get sympathy from others for failing a drug test. Schools can and will expel students for drug offenses, although policies vary wildly. This does not apply to residency. The vast majority of hospitals will require a drug test, and will do not-so-random "random" drug tests on people they think may be positive.
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Agreed. You will for sure be tested when you start residency. These days they use urine tests, but it's pretty conceivable that as test get better, some version of the hair test will be implemented, and thus they will know your drug use history over a much longer stretch of time. It would be pretty lame to not be able to be a Resident because of drugs you used in first year when the test were less intricate.
 
Law2Doc said:
Not particularly ridiculous. One is legal, the other isn't. And since folks who break the little laws often then find it easier to break slightly bigger laws, MJ has become regarded as a gateway to harder drugs for some people. And since as a physician you are going to have direct access to prescription medication, it's totally reasonable for the higher ups to be comfortable that you are squeaky clean in term of drugs. And that's really all there is to it. You don't give. Chain saw to someone with a history of cutting up people, so you don't want to give a DEA license to someone who has a history of breaking drug related laws. It really doesn't matter that there are perfectly legal, more dangerous things out there. That's a losing argument. There are historical reasons why alcohol and cigarettes are legal and other things aren't, but so what -- you can't break the law and win by saying, gee alcohol is a lot worse. Yes it is, but so what. You get caught doing something that our society has chosen to criminalize and that's the end of the inquiry.
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My point was that it shouldn't be illegal. I agree that it's not a good idea to break laws. This isn't the place for the argument, I was just venting my frustration about existing laws. And seriously, the gateway drug argument is over-used without much to substantiate it. The idea that breaking a little law makes people more likely to break bigger laws? Well, I'm one of the only people in my class who only crosses the street at cross-walks (people do get hit by cars in our city), I refuse to download or listen to stolen music or other things, etc. Those are laws that are very commonly broken but that have good purposes. You think people who break those laws are more likely to break other laws? I'm not sure what I think. I do know that I don't break any laws (as far as humanly possible...I rarely even drive above the speed limit), but I sure broke drug laws as a kid. I haven't in a heck of a long time, because I'm not willing to risk my children or my career or my freedom. But I still think it's ridiculous that a student can't celebrate break by smoking some marijuana.

As far as the rest, though...a very prominent professor at my school had his license taken away when he was young because of prescription drug abuse (and serious legal issues as a result), but he is now older and practices with a DEA license. So yeah, that happens.
 
.
 
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I agree with what Law is saying (though I don't think the "gateway" theory holds up) ...

Frankly, I don't use it myself, but have 0 problem with people who do and think its current state is pretty absurd - historical reasons why it's banned, access in certain states to anyone who pays $100 and sees a "weed doctor," a huge crime to possess in some areas and literally an infraction in others, etc, etc ... HOWEVER, it really makes no difference because it is illegal and all the ranting and raving about why it shouldn't be and why alcohol and ciggies are worse isn't going to make one iota of difference if you get caught with it in your system.

Additionally, I disagree with whoever said it was a small issue if a test comes up positive. My guess is that you would catch serious heat and the issue would follow you through the rest of your rotations, residency, and obtaining a medical license.

I guess the bottom line is that if you haven't already smoked, just don't. Lame, I know, but it's just not worth the potential risks/consequences.
 
Law2Doc said:
Not particularly ridiculous. One is legal, the other isn't. And since folks who break the little laws often then find it easier to break slightly bigger laws, MJ has become regarded as a gateway to harder drugs for some people. And since as a physician you are going to have direct access to prescription medication, it's totally reasonable for the higher ups to be comfortable that you are squeaky clean in term of drugs. And that's really all there is to it. You don't give. Chain saw to someone with a history of cutting up people, so you don't want to give a DEA license to someone who has a history of breaking drug related laws. It really doesn't matter that there are perfectly legal, more dangerous things out there. That's a losing argument. There are historical reasons why alcohol and cigarettes are legal and other things aren't, but so what -- you can't break the law and win by saying, gee alcohol is a lot worse. Yes it is, but so what. You get caught doing something that our society has chosen to criminalize and that's the end of the inquiry.
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I was afraid that this thread would go down this route. I guess 10-20% of my classmates and myself who smoke some pot now and then will be too strung out on vicoxanadderabarbital in the future to be caring for our patients. This gateway drug theory has been thrown around a bit too much by kindergarten DARE coppers that don't understand the difference between causation and correlation.

Regardless, many medical and other professional/graduate students (more than you may think) continue to use MJ and other drugs for whatever reason. It just so happens that the most "benign" illegal drug takes much longer for your body to clear than other drugs.
Thanks for all of your responses. If anyone else has any anecdotes or advice, please feel free to share.
 
doxycycline said:
Don't smoke drugs stay in your hair for years?
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From what I understand, cannabis is kind of weird and doesn't concentrate well in hair follicles. It seems if you have not used for a year it would not likely be detected.

EDIT: So my school has it listed very clearly in its policies that we can be drug-tested at the hospital at any time. I don't know if they actually do. The pharmacy students are given a month's notice before they are tested.
 
JaggerPlate said:
I agree with what Law is saying (though I don't think the "gateway" theory holds up) ...

Frankly, I don't use it myself, but have 0 problem with people who do and think its current state is pretty absurd - historical reasons why it's banned, access in certain states to anyone who pays $100 and sees a "weed doctor," a huge crime to possess in some areas and literally an infraction in others, etc, etc ... HOWEVER, it really makes no difference because it is illegal and all the ranting and raving about why it shouldn't be and why alcohol and ciggies are worse isn't going to make one iota of difference if you get caught with it in your system.

Additionally, I disagree with whoever said it was a small issue if a test comes up positive. My guess is that you would catch serious heat and the issue would follow you through the rest of your rotations, residency, and obtaining a medical license.

I guess the bottom line is that if you haven't already smoked, just don't. Lame, I know, but it's just not worth the potential risks/consequences.
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Exactly. The rest of this disccusion is irrelevant.
 
JaggerPlate said:
I agree with what Law is saying (though I don't think the "gateway" theory holds up) ...

Frankly, I don't use it myself, but have 0 problem with people who do and think its current state is pretty absurd - historical reasons why it's banned, access in certain states to anyone who pays $100 and sees a "weed doctor," a huge crime to possess in some areas and literally an infraction in others, etc, etc ... HOWEVER, it really makes no difference because it is illegal and all the ranting and raving about why it shouldn't be and why alcohol and ciggies are worse isn't going to make one iota of difference if you get caught with it in your system.

Additionally, I disagree with whoever said it was a small issue if a test comes up positive. My guess is that you would catch serious heat and the issue would follow you through the rest of your rotations, residency, and obtaining a medical license.

I guess the bottom line is that if you haven't already smoked, just don't. Lame, I know, but it's just not worth the potential risks/consequences.
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I understand. However, I don't mean to sit here and try to justify pot use on the basis that it is or isn't any safer than any of the legal drugs. My point is that I've been a bad boy (or gal) and I smoked some pot. If I could unsmoke all the trees that I done smoked, I would, but unfortunately that would break the second law of thermodynamics and I don't want to get into further trouble with the legal system.
Based on the various responses, it seems like not many people are subject to completely random drug tests by the hospitals they rotate at. In addition, it seems like if the SDN community represents the overall medical community, people have about a 50/50 shot of getting severe heat vs relatively minor heat for testing positive for THC. Does this seem reasonable or am I completely missing something?
 
Last I checked hair tests only have 90 day detection limits... when did years come into play?
 
aandotimesthree said:
I understand. However, I don't mean to sit here and try to justify pot use on the basis that it is or isn't any safer than any of the legal drugs. My point is that I've been a bad boy (or gal) and I smoked some pot. If I could unsmoke all the trees that I done smoked, I would, but unfortunately that would break the second law of thermodynamics and I don't want to get into further trouble with the legal system.
Based on the various responses, it seems like not many people are subject to completely random drug tests by the hospitals they rotate at. In addition, it seems like if the SDN community represents the overall medical community, people have about a 50/50 shot of getting severe heat vs relatively minor heat for testing positive for THC. Does this seem reasonable or am I completely missing something?
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Come on, man. You are just going to have to give it up. Don't you see that already? Risk career for a little fun/relaxation now and then? Use your head. It's not fair and it is not right, but it is what it is. Time to deal with it and move on...
 
cbrons said:
Come on, man. You are just going to have to give it up. Don't you see that already? Risk career for a little fun/relaxation now and then? Use your head. It's not fair and it is not right, but it is what it is. Time to deal with it and move on...
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Got it. Haven't touched the stuff since I realized that drug tests were a possibility. I didn't realize that they do sporadically drug test after matriculation until a few days ago. Forgive my ignorance.
 
aandotimesthree said:
Got it. Haven't touched the stuff since I realized that drug tests were a possibility. I didn't realize that they do sporadically drug test after matriculation until a few days ago. Forgive my ignorance.
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Dude is not even a med student yet.
 
jj6vcb said:
Last I checked hair tests only have 90 day detection limits... when did years come into play?
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The 90 days is part of the same wives tales you see floating around as the prior poster who suggested drinking lots of water. Assuming you haven't shaved off all your hair, the evidence will still be there for years under the better tests.
 
I always thought it was darkly hilarious how a lot of the harder drugs do not test positive as well or for as long as marijuana.
 
Many (most if not all?) residency programs drug test you before you start intern year. As far as I know, most medical schools don't test you at all. This gives you potentially a year more to "relax" and stop sometime around Match. However, depending on where you rotate, it's in every hospital's power to drug test you whenever they please on the spot. And they don't have to give you any warning really. So from now on (not judging, just advising) it would be prudent in the future to stay off of anything that could get your job and license in trouble. Just my 2 cents. In my opinion not worth risking it all for a few hours of relaxation. Just drink on your time off the clock. Alcohol makes people happy too, and it's legal.
 
aandotimesthree said:
I understand. However, I don't mean to sit here and try to justify pot use on the basis that it is or isn't any safer than any of the legal drugs. My point is that I've been a bad boy (or gal) and I smoked some pot. If I could unsmoke all the trees that I done smoked, I would, but unfortunately that would break the second law of thermodynamics and I don't want to get into further trouble with the legal system.
Based on the various responses, it seems like not many people are subject to completely random drug tests by the hospitals they rotate at. In addition, it seems like if the SDN community represents the overall medical community, people have about a 50/50 shot of getting severe heat vs relatively minor heat for testing positive for THC. Does this seem reasonable or am I completely missing something?
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Ah! I didn't know you already smoked ... I thought this was something you were contemplating. Honestly, my GUESS is that 1. you won't get a surprise ninja drug test any time soon and 2. It will be a urine test (my friends tell me in all their 'seat of my pants' drug test experiences that hair tests are expensive and take a long time so most places don't do them), so you should be fine.

As far as the "heat" goes ... I'm sticking with heavy. It's completely anecdotal, but I read a story one time on SDN from a resident seeking advice with an alcohol issue. Long story short, he came into work hung over and decided it was a good idea to tell the chief or his attending or something and they turned it over to admins ... by the end of the post he was describing how despite the fact that he was barely even a casual/social drinker he was on probation with the program, had to go to some type of counseling thing, and was subjected to random drug/alcohol tests during the duration of his residency ... this didn't even take licensing into account.

The story could be BS, but residents and attendings were responding so I think it goes to show that type of stuff generally falls into the severe category in the medical world.

Just part of the game ...
 
Typically a too diluted sample is considered a positive.
 
This topic continually makes me want to kick puppies. Nobody who is in a position to influence your medical career gives a sheet about your opinion about marijuana. It doesn't matter if it is more benign, less toxic, etc., etc., . . . Nobody cares. Wrap your little brains around that. It is a NON issue. You can choose weed or medicine. You do not get to have both. Are there docs who toke? Of course, but they play with fire and it demonstrates a lack of caution and care that would be and is concerning to any medical board.

Let me tell you from the experience of myself (which is really no big secret around here) and others like me, you find yourself messed up with any of this marijuana stuff and it follows you for LIFE. It effects residency and fellowship placement, DEA certification, training permit and permanent licensure, and hospital credentialing for LIFE. I have a large stack of documentation I save and have to submit anytime I make a move or apply for a license or try and get a moonlighting gig. This isn't some non-issue. It's a BIG fuvking deal.

And none of it . . . Was ever worth my best day high. Adults make adult decisions and in this case chosing to smoke weed in light of all of this makes you not only a child and emotionally immature person, but probably also the kind of person who might not be ready to make the important life or death decisions required of a physician. If the weed is that important, maybe you should rethink your career choice.
 
jdh71 said:
This topic continually makes me want to kick puppies. Nobody who is in a position to influence your medical career gives a sheet about your opinion about marijuana. It doesn't matter if it is more benign, less toxic, etc., etc., . . . Nobody cares. Wrap your little brains around that. It is a NON issue. You can choose weed or medicine. You do not get to have both. Are there docs who toke? Of course, but they play with fire and it demonstrates a lack of caution and care that would be and is concerning to any medical board.

Let me tell you from the experience of myself (which is really no big secret around here) and others like me, you find yourself messed up with any of this marijuana stuff and it follows you for LIFE. It effects residency and fellowship placement, DEA certification, training permit and permanent licensure, and hospital credentialing for LIFE. I have a large stack of documentation I save and have to submit anytime I make a move or apply for a license or try and get a moonlighting gig. This isn't some non-issue. It's a BIG fuvking deal.

And none of it . . . Was ever worth my best day high. Adults make adult decisions and in this case chosing to smoke weed in light of all of this makes you not only a child and emotionally immature person, but probably also the kind of person who might not be ready to make the important life or death decisions required of a physician. If the weed is that important, maybe you should rethink your career choice.
Click to expand...

Wow. OP, you have your answer/all the motivation you need right here. Thanks for sharing man.
 
jdh71 said:
No. They simply retest you. If it's too dilute more than twice, you're in trouble.
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This might be place dependent I have been informed in previous careers that a dilute test is a positive, regardless per your previous post it is better to be safe than sorry.
 
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