surviving anatomy lab

[tryp]

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I looked for other threads on this, but most of the threads are either on how to not faint, or how to study for anatomy, or people who are worried that dissections will be bad for them but find out it's okay.

We started dissecting this block and it is horrible. I hate the smell (doesn't everyone?) but the worst part is cutting into someone's dead body. I can't stand it. My table-mates are all happily digging into this body. The TA is just digging her fingers right in there and clotted blood and tissue are literally flying everywhere, her sleeves are soaked in blood, it was horrible. All I wanted to do was run out of the room. The cadaver was leaking everywhere, and every week it gets worse as the cadaver gets older and older, and the liquid fat runs out onto the table and the outside layers of the skin start to rub/peel off...I could go on, but you get the point. I was just standing there thinking "don't lock your knees, don't lock your knees, don't lock your knees". I have never run out of a teaching activity faster in my life. I was nauseous and dizzy, but I don't think I'm going to actually pass out or throw up, although I did say I felt faint so I could go stand in the hallway for five minutes.

How can I get through all this dissecting? I keep trying to tell myself that it is making me a better doctor, and that it is disrespectful to our donor to keep wanting to bolt from the room, but it's not helping very much. Is there any way that I can help myself to hate this less? Am I the only person who loathes this?

 

[VisionaryTics]

Become one with the goobers (body juices). Get right in there.

 

[D elegans]

To some extent, that feeling won't go away, but it should get better for you. I actually agree with the above post; the more involved you are, the more desensitized you will become. Try to approach it from as much of an academic viewpoint as you can.

We have been dissecting for two blocks, but are now in head/neck and neuro. I am pretty much desensitized by now, though cutting into someone's face (which we did today) did elicit a somewhat repulsed reaction.

 

[baraa123]

it's hard at the first for most of student but you should don't make that stop you ...try to see videos of dissecting before the lab ... and i think the better way is to look at the body and the dissection as cool thing how the our bodies just perfect .
try to enjoy it ( because it's actually awesome )

 

[Ischiowhat]

Yeah, you're pretty squeamish. You should probably suck it up. What will you do when the body in front of you is equally f--ed up but talking back and expecting to be helped? Or you have your hand up their rectum, I mean what did you expect to do as part of training to be a doctor?

I found anatomy lab to be a huge waste of time but for you it seems like an important introduction to seeing icky things.

 

[cbrons]

you finna betta wear a nice pair of gogs if U got yo self a pair of dem contacts der boy.

 

[bassvp]

mmmmm...dissection....

 

[loveoforganic]

I'd personally just take away as much of the noxious stimulus as possible. Face it - you are going to have to see everything in there and you're going to have to cut around and clean some too. That's unavoidable, so accept it. What you can do is cut down on the smell. Chew mint/cinnamon gum throughout lab. If that doesn't help enough, you could spray a little mask with mint aroma and wear that. If the formaldehyde kills your eyes, you could wear tight goggles.

 

[Kevin Baker]

This might sound weird, but for the squeamishness, I found getting desensitized by watching videos worked. Whether it's surgery videos or some grosser stuff you might find online, doesn't matter. Just get desensitized.

As for the smell, there was some fancy mask contraption some of my classmates swear by. It makes you look like a sith lord but apparently filters the smell pretty well.

 

[NickNaylor]

This might sound weird, but for the squeamishness, I found getting desensitized by watching videos worked. Whether it's surgery videos or some grosser stuff you might find online, doesn't matter. Just get desensitized.

As for the smell, there was some fancy mask contraption some of my classmates swear by. It makes you look like a sith lord but apparently filters the smell pretty well.

Definitely agree with this. Even if you don't watch the videos you'll eventually get over it. There were many things that freaked me out as far as gore goes before anatomy. Very few of those things still bother me.

 

[FIREitUP]

This echos a lot of what I feel (besides the knocking of the knees), and I can't express what a BS course anatomy is. It's a hazing ritual that provides very little high yield knowledge. Just finish it and move on to more important, high yield topics. Honestly who even remembers attachments/innervations of all those stupid muscles in head and neck? Furthermore, the clinical relevance of the detailed minutiae you learn in anatomy is little to none. IMO anatomy should be simplified to align with the depth it is taught on the boards, and dissecting should be done away with (prosections and self study ftw).

That being said, it'll be over soon and you'll look back on anatomy lab and imagine yourself giving the finger to the anatomy professors for tagging the cilliary ganglion.

 

[D elegans]

Though in large it's hard to disagree with the notion that anatomy is low-yield for the boards, I do think it can be a pretty incredible experience. Even if I don't remember this or that tiny vessel, I still feel like dissecting was worth it for the visceral and tactile sense of the human body that I've gained.

 

[FIREitUP]

Though in large it's hard to disagree with the notion that anatomy is low-yield for the boards, I do think it can be a pretty incredible experience. Even if I don't remember this or that tiny vessel, I still feel like dissecting was worth it for the visceral and tactile sense of the human body that I've gained.

I wish I shared the same enthusiasm. Every time I see a cadaver I feel a sadness for the person whose human identity we destroyed and disgraced.

 

[cbrons]

DUde anatomy is capital B bogus brah.

U finna gots to memorize all this stuff in the middle of taking 20 hours of other classes that are actually somewhat important (physio, micro/immuno, biochem to some extent). D\

 

[FIREitUP]

DUde anatomy is capital B bogus brah.

U finna gots to memorize all this stuff in the middle of taking 20 hours of other classes that are actually somewhat important (physio, micro/immuno, biochem to some extent). D\

lol

 

[SFO-IST]

OP: At some point in the very near future, you'll need to use all you're learning in that lab. The donor knew you were going to be cutting up his/her cadaver to learn all that you can so that when that moment comes you can use that knowledge to positively effect your patient's life. That's what the donor wanted so suck it up and grow a pair.

That being said, the preservatives are known cancerogens that will make you feel dizzy. You might want to consider using a respirator like this one:

http://www.amazon.com/3M-R6211-Low-...Z4EB/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1327637801&sr=8-2

I did and even though I looked like a scuba diver, the air in there smelled so fresh it was like I was taking a walk in a national park. I'd highly recommend one.

 

[FIREitUP]

OP: At some point in the very near future, you'll need to use all you're learning in that lab. The donor knew you were going to be cutting up his/her cadaver to learn all that you can so that when that moment comes you can use that knowledge to positively effect your patient's life. That's what the donor wanted so suck it up and grow a pair.

That being said, the preservatives are known cancerogens that will make you feel dizzy. You might want to consider using a respirator like this one:

http://www.amazon.com/3M-R6211-Low-...Z4EB/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1327637801&sr=8-2

I did and even though I looked like a scuba diver, the air in there smelled so fresh it was like I was taking a walk in a national park. I'd highly recommend one.

Do yourself a favor and ask a physician if he remembers what innervates serratus anterior. I can almost guarantee you he wouldn't know the answer.

For some perspective, I asked my dad, who has practiced as a general surgeon for decades (and has done many mastectomies in his day), and he didn't even know what that muscle was (and the long thoracic nerve, we were taught, has clinical implications in what he did on a daily basis).

This post comes across as extremely naive. You seem like one of those med students who gladly eats the crap that their school feeds them, convinced that it is indeed delicious food. Except it's not. It's crap.

 

[PSurg530]

Do yourself a favor and ask a physician if he remembers what innervates serratus anterior. I can almost guarantee you he wouldn't know the answer.

For some perspective, I asked my dad, who has practiced as a general surgeon for decades (and has done many mastectomies in his day), and he didn't even know what that muscle was (and the long thoracic nerve, we were taught, has clinical implications in what he did on a daily basis).

This post comes across as extremely naive. You seem like one of those med students who gladly eats the crap that their school feeds them, convinced that it is indeed delicious food. Except it's not. It's crap.

I really wouldn't brag about a surgeon not knowing the names of the muscles and/or nerves he is cutting through... A surgeon had better know their anatomy. That is one reason to just suck it up and get through anatomy. You don't know what you're going to specialize in.

 

[SFO-IST]

Holy smokes dude! If your dad is a general surgeon who doesn't even know what muscle the serratus anterior is or what the long thoracic nerve innervates, he is a bad surgeon. As you pointed out, this knowledge has clinical implications on his daily practice. Did he just cut through stuff without knowing what nerve goes where like a piece of chicken?!?!

If you think you can blow off a class like anatomy and become a good doctor, you should take a look in the mirror before calling others naive.

Do yourself a favor and ask a physician if he remembers what innervates serratus anterior. I can almost guarantee you he wouldn't know the answer.

For some perspective, I asked my dad, who has practiced as a general surgeon for decades (and has done many mastectomies in his day), and he didn't even know what that muscle was (and the long thoracic nerve, we were taught, has clinical implications in what he did on a daily basis).

This post comes across as extremely naive. You seem like one of those med students who gladly eats the crap that their school feeds them, convinced that it is indeed delicious food. Except it's not. It's crap.

 

[loveoforganic]

We had a gen surg as one of our anatomy profs who had just come out of clinical practice to teach starting with our class, and her knowledge of all of the minutiae and all the associated embryology was... extensive.

 

[FIREitUP]

Holy smokes dude! If your dad is a general surgeon who doesn't even know what muscle the serratus anterior is or what the long thoracic nerve innervates, he is a bad surgeon. As you pointed out, this knowledge has clinical implications on his daily practice. Did he just cut through stuff without knowing what nerve goes where like a piece of chicken?!?!

If you think you can blow off a class like anatomy and become a good doctor, you should take a look in the mirror before calling others naive.

Wow this post made so little sense I can't even begin to berate you for writing it.

First off, my dad is not a bad surgeon (he's actually never lost a patient on the table, ever), but I really love the fact that you can make that assumption based on not knowing something that your PhD told you was super high yield. Second, the point I was trying illustrate is that the things they tell us are super clinically important and relevant in anatomy are not. But you are eating the **** like it's candy.

 

[tryp]

In my defence, I'm not squeamish about wounds or bodily fluids or anything like that. It's the DEADNESS of anatomy lab that really bothers me. I hope not to spend a significant portion of my career examining, performing procedures on, or hacking apart corpses.

 

[PSurg530]

Wow this post made so little sense I can't even begin to berate you for writing it.

First off, my dad is not a bad surgeon (he's actually never lost a patient on the table, ever), but I really love the fact that you can make that assumption based on not knowing something that your PhD told you was super high yield. Second, the point I was trying illustrate is that the things they tell us are super clinically important and relevant in anatomy are not. But you are eating the **** like it's candy.

They absolutely are important. If you cut through that nerve, a person will lose some ability to move that arm. You won't necessarily lose someone on the table, but you can still cause lots of harm with your ignorance. If you are ok with that, then continue being ignorant.

Anatomy is ridiculously important to a surgeon, I really cannot believe you are trying to argue that it's not. These are not minutiae, they are hugely important daily.

And SFO-IST's post made perfect sense.

 

[FIREitUP]

They absolutely are important. If you cut through that nerve, a person will lose some ability to move that arm. You won't necessarily lose someone on the table, but you can still cause lots of harm with your ignorance. If you are ok with that, then continue being ignorant.

Anatomy is ridiculously important to a surgeon, I really cannot believe you are trying to argue that it's not. These are not minutiae, they are hugely important daily.

And SFO-IST's post made perfect sense.

I didn't say it wasn't important. I was stating simply that knowing innervation/blood supply/attachments of every little muscle offers very little. Honestly the fact that many people on these boards make the argument that "you'll be a poor physician if you don't know anatomy to the extent that it's taught" demonstrates naivety and conformity. I'm have no doubt in my mind that my dad knows the nerve is there and not to damage it. However, my point remains that for the most part you do not need to know anatomy's muscle attachments and how every stupid muscle rotates the scapula. I honestly couldn't care less that teres major does medial rotation while teres minor does lateral rotation. It's simply minutiae that I'll let the physical therapists worry about.

Take the heart for instance. Why in the hell do I need to know how to identify the crista terminalis, septomargina trabecula, pectinate muscles, trabeculae carnae, etc.? My point is that anatomy is on the whole, the most inefficiently taught class in medical school. My practical exam had a white rami communicans tagged on it. I'd like to hear your justification for why I need to know how to differentiate between white and gray rami.

 

[alysp13751]

I guess what he meant is that he knows where the nerve is and how eveyrthing looks like and what to do in pretty much a robotic manner and could not remember the name? That said, I think he has to know it, he was prob not paying you any attention, not remembering a certain enzyme of a pathway fine, not remembering your histo when youre a surgeon, understood, I just think he used a poor example of what were going to forget when you are actually a doctor, which is like 80 per cent of the stuff we are taught, but certainly not the regional anatomy of the trunk when you are operating on it! My dad is a neurologist and he also said he doesnt remember embryology, or histology, or statistics or things like that. It rings a bell if he reads it but he doesnt know it from the top of his head, doesnt mean hes a bad doctor, after working 30 years in your specialized field you end up doing pretty much the same everyday

 

[FIREitUP]

I guess what he meant is that he knows where the nerve is and how eveyrthing looks like and what to do in pretty much a robotic manner and could not remember the name? That said, I think he has to know it, he was prob not paying you any attention, not remembering a certain enzyme of a pathway fine, not remembering your histo when youre a surgeon, understood, I just think he used a poor example of what were going to forget when you are actually a doctor, which is like 80 per cent of the stuff we are taught, but certainly not the regional anatomy of the trunk when you are operating on it! My dad is a neurologist and he also said he doesnt remember embryology, or histology, or statistics or things like that. It rings a bell if he reads it but he doesnt know it from the top of his head, doesnt mean hes a bad doctor, after working 30 years in your specialized field you end up doing pretty much the same everyday

I admit that my example wasn't the best. But you got the gist of what I was saying.

 

[alysp13751]

I still think its good that we are asked to know to such detail, if they were less rigorous in what we learn we probably wouldnt be bothered with most stuff and only with what were interested in. So in a way it prepares you even if its just psychologically for the workload and if the occasion comes up and you need to know something you dont remember it probably narrows your search. That being said, the first histology lecture I had started by the professor saying he was going to teach us some **** that we are never going to use

 

[FIREitUP]

I still think its good that we are asked to know to such detail, if they were less rigorous in what we learn we probably wouldnt be bothered with most stuff and only with what were interested in. So in a way it prepares you even if its just psychologically for the workload and if the occasion comes up and you need to know something you dont remember it probably narrows your search. That being said, the first histology lecture I had started by the professor saying he was going to teach us some **** that we are never going to use

I can understand your logic, but efficiency wise, I would rather them cut anatomy in half and give me more board studying time than give me low yield information laden in minutiae that I will most probably never use.

 

[alysp13751]

I guess, but its not like were getting taught by doctors that practice in the begining, were taught by professors of anatomy who prob find it fascinating and its the basics, not everybody wants to be a certain kind of doctor from the start, some doctors will end up teaching anatomy as their job.

And btw, answering to the thread starter, you will get used to it, its disgusting and it will always be, but its not like at the start. My first anatomy lab, they gave us a leg detached from the body that we never saw. They told us to get around the table and start skinning it basically, everyone thought it was the coolest thing ever or at least acted like they thought that, and I found it revolting. If you need to wear a mask wear it, I know ppl make fun of them but I wouldnt care if the smell of it was making me sick.

 

[bassvp]

But you are eating the **** like it's candy.

If you have to eat it either way, it might as well be candy.

 

[Marcus Brody]

In my defence, I'm not squeamish about wounds or bodily fluids or anything like that. It's the DEADNESS of anatomy lab that really bothers me. I hope not to spend a significant portion of my career examining, performing procedures on, or hacking apart corpses.

What do you think a code is? It's understandable though, prob normal even.

 

[painmd87]

In my defence, I'm not squeamish about wounds or bodily fluids or anything like that. It's the DEADNESS of anatomy lab that really bothers me. I hope not to spend a significant portion of my career examining, performing procedures on, or hacking apart corpses.

I know exactly how you feel. Week four, we started upper extremity. I was still adjusting to being in a room with a couple dozen dead bodies, and another row or two of them waiting to be processed for the next class. We had a tough time getting his fingers unclenched to see most of the hand structures, and I started to feel a little uncomfortable wrenching his fist open. I kept it together, until, for whatever reason, seeing his fingernails just pushed it too far. I had to get out.

It was kind of a tipping point for me. After that, nothing really bothered me, except the painted finger nails on the little old lady in the tank next to mine. I just made sure to keep my eyes off them. That was the most "humanizing" thing of the cadavers for me.

Someone already said this, but keep in mind that the people willingly donated their bodies to be cut up, probed, twisted, cracked etc. My experience got a LOT better when we got into cavities and I got to see how my guy had been "replumbed" by surgeries.

 

[D elegans]

I wish I shared the same enthusiasm. Every time I see a cadaver I feel a sadness for the person whose human identity we destroyed and disgraced.

I don't feel this way. Though I think we should treat the cadavers with utmost respect and humility, the "person" is gone. Their identity dies with them. If they hadn't donated their bodies to science (a wonderful gift), their bodies would have been buried or cremated, and their "identity" would be just as gone.

I'm not religious in the least, but our bodies are vessels. When we're brain dead, we're gone. We can live on only in memories/impact.

 

[FIREitUP]

If you have to eat it either way, it might as well be candy.

That's the kind of attitude that fosters stagnation, which is especially disconcerting in a field that needs to be progressive as much as medicine does.

@ Delegans

The way I look at it is if this was my loved one on the table in front of me. Would I want their organs put in a collective organ bucket mixed with 30 other cadavers? Would I be okay with the anatomy teachers maiming the cadaver so it's easier to tag a structure on the foot? These things make me feel uneasy because we could just as easily not do these things to respect these bodies.

 

[TAWS]

I don't feel this way. Though I think we should treat the cadavers with utmost respect and humility, the "person" is gone. Their identity dies with them. If they hadn't donated their bodies to science (a wonderful gift), their bodies would have been buried or cremated, and their "identity" would be just as gone.

I'm not religious in the least, but our bodies are vessels. When we're brain dead, we're gone. We can live on only in memories/impact.

I think you will find most med students wouldn't want to donate their bodies since they know what happens to the bodies. I personally think we should compensate the families of cadavers in some way but I realize this is hard because of ethical concerns.

 

[Postal]

I think you will find most med students wouldn't want to donate their bodies since they know what happens to the bodies.

Even though I'm very well aware of how medical students treat bodies, I'm perfectly fine with donating mine to science. If I die, I might as well give some poor med student a chance to work on me so they can learn.

Returning to the OP's original point. I HATE Anatomy lab. I loved the first lab, but after that it was all downhill from there. I just have no patience to stand for hours looking for tiny little vessels.

 

[HolySmokes]

Halfway through gross lab I decided that if I were going to donate my body to a med school, I would get a tattoo of a dotted line down my back (or whatever body part that school starts dissecting first) with the words "Cut Here."

 

[smq123]

OP: At some point in the very near future, you'll need to use all you're learning in that lab.

I don't think I use 90% of what I learned in anatomy lab.

Anatomy, itself, is important. I think the lecture part is important, and yes, you will use a large portion of that in your every day work as a physician. More so if you are a surgeon.

Anatomy lab is kind of a colossal waste of time. Prosections would teach you what you need to know just as well, I think. Spending a lot of time cutting away at fat only to realize that, crap, we just cut through a bunch of nerves, was kind of useless.

And as an aside, surgical anatomy is vastly different from dissecting a cadaver. The structures look completely different in a living human being, their relation to each other is different, etc. I HATED anatomy lab, but I loved surgery. It's a whole different beast.

 

[Ghost22]

I may be in the minority but I love anatomy lab (my group doesn't just hack and slice and it's a nice break from staring at books for hours).

OP: there are certain things that are more surreal and weird (I'll second fingernails, our cadaver's were still painted pink) than others but try to learn something from it, that's what the person intended when they donated their body.

 

[cbrons]

I don't think I use 90% of what I learned in anatomy lab.

Anatomy, itself, is important. I think the lecture part is important, and yes, you will use a large portion of that in your every day work as a physician. More so if you are a surgeon.

Anatomy lab is kind of a colossal waste of time. Prosections would teach you what you need to know just as well, I think. Spending a lot of time cutting away at fat only to realize that, crap, we just cut through a bunch of nerves, was kind of useless.

And as an aside, surgical anatomy is vastly different from dissecting a cadaver. The structures look completely different in a living human being, their relation to each other is different, etc. I HATED anatomy lab, but I loved surgery. It's a whole different beast.

I think they keep the stupid whole dissection thing really more out of tradition. Still with 23 hrs of other classes to worry about, perhaps its time to scrap tradition in favor of efficiency.

 

[shaggy alfresco]

DUde anatomy is capital B bogus brah.

U finna gots to memorize all this stuff in the middle of taking 20 hours of other classes that are actually somewhat important (physio, micro/immuno, biochem to some extent). D\

Oh God it would have sucked to take anatomy along with other classes. So glad my school is on a block schedule - one course at a time.

 

[FIREitUP]

I don't think I use 90% of what I learned in anatomy lab.

Anatomy, itself, is important. I think the lecture part is important, and yes, you will use a large portion of that in your every day work as a physician. More so if you are a surgeon.

Anatomy lab is kind of a colossal waste of time. Prosections would teach you what you need to know just as well, I think. Spending a lot of time cutting away at fat only to realize that, crap, we just cut through a bunch of nerves, was kind of useless.

And as an aside, surgical anatomy is vastly different from dissecting a cadaver. The structures look completely different in a living human being, their relation to each other is different, etc. I HATED anatomy lab, but I loved surgery. It's a whole different beast.

Thank you for this post.