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You betcha. Gothenburg U. Term 6 Internal Medicine. Are you trying to get stateside too?
Danish 6th year student here. Going stateside, myself.
Max, is 6th term 6th year or 6th semester (or something I don't know about)? Which year will you match, you think? I'm going for 2005.
Max, is 6th term 6th year or 6th semester (or something I don't know about)? Which year will you match, you think? I'm going for 2005.
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Got here in 1998 with my ex. We didn't work out but medical school did. Currently term 6 of 11, shooting for Match 2006 in Path or Rads (backup FP?).
Try your schools international secretary, they should have all the skinny on where and when to apply. GU has at least four bilateral agreements with east coast schools (Cornell, JH etc.) They usually only last one month from what I gather.
BellKicker, good luck in 2005. Have you formulated an attack plan yet? I am often in Kopenhagen, at least once a month, we ought to meet and have a beer at Bryggeriet.
Try your schools international secretary, they should have all the skinny on where and when to apply. GU has at least four bilateral agreements with east coast schools (Cornell, JH etc.) They usually only last one month from what I gather.
BellKicker, good luck in 2005. Have you formulated an attack plan yet? I am often in Kopenhagen, at least once a month, we ought to meet and have a beer at Bryggeriet.
I don't know if it's difficult or not. It's a hassle compared to staying in Sweden/Scandinavia where jobs are lined up for you. But from what I hear, some countries, like Canada, are absolutely impossible to get to as a doctor.
You have to pass the USMLEs. There are now 3 tests, Step1, Step 2 CK (clinical knowledge) and step 2 CS (clinical skills). You can read a lot more about that on www.ecfmg.org or on this very site.
Max, that's an interesting story. I married an American, too. We've got two little half-breed kids now. Jeez, my wife can't wait to move back; but then again, she been here for more than 7 years. I guess you speak Swedish fluently, then? That's pretty cool.
Yeah, if you're in Copenhagen it would be fun to meet up.
My plan: I've taken step 1 (which I did after our 4th year). Then I'll take both Step 2s next summer/fall. I'm going for rural FP.
Greetings fellow Scandinavians!
I'm a 6th year student at the University of Oslo. I have no plans of going into an internship in the States, I just sometimes pop into this site to seee what all the Americans are up to 🙂
I'm a 6th year student at the University of Oslo. I have no plans of going into an internship in the States, I just sometimes pop into this site to seee what all the Americans are up to 🙂
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Hey all
I was in Oslo this August - I watched some type of ceremony at the University - it was outside and they closed Karl Johans Gata - was it uni opening or something? Every now and then I think of going scandinavian after I qualify... But I'm not so sure about the food 😉
That, and not speaking Norwegian/Swedish/Danish.... Got some German though
I was in Oslo this August - I watched some type of ceremony at the University - it was outside and they closed Karl Johans Gata - was it uni opening or something? Every now and then I think of going scandinavian after I qualify... But I'm not so sure about the food 😉
That, and not speaking Norwegian/Swedish/Danish.... Got some German though
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Hi Fiona!
Don't you worry about the food - it's mostly very good. (but expensive) Except maybe for sheeps's eye which is an infamous speciality of ours 😀 Not that I've ever tasted it...
That was probably the "opening ceremony" for the new students you witnessed. Overall we don't have many "academic ceremonies."
Don't you worry about the food - it's mostly very good. (but expensive) Except maybe for sheeps's eye which is an infamous speciality of ours 😀 Not that I've ever tasted it...
That was probably the "opening ceremony" for the new students you witnessed. Overall we don't have many "academic ceremonies."
I beg to differ. I've never been to Norway, but most North Americans I've spoken to have said that Scandinavian food tends to be pretty bland. As for the price level, Denmark and Sweden are pretty much like the US, whereas Norway is ludicrously expensive (a BigMac&Co is something like ten bucks).
Dudester, good to see you.
I'm sorry, man, I had to laugh and show your post to my wife. Her first job in Denmark was at a McDonald's in the center of Copenhagen. There were many Swedes there and they always wanted "big mac and company", a term they seemed to believe was universal. She still says it sometimes.
Oh, and they wanted cola utan glass, which was very confusing to her with her struggling Danish. It brings back memories.
And yeah, Norway is incredibly expensive. I've only gone there on ski vacations, which probably made it worse, but some of those things were just so damn expensive I thought they were marked wrong.
I guess if your thing is brown cheese and lutefisk, though...... Sorry, Lille My. It probably tastes "skide godt" 😉
I'm sorry, man, I had to laugh and show your post to my wife. Her first job in Denmark was at a McDonald's in the center of Copenhagen. There were many Swedes there and they always wanted "big mac and company", a term they seemed to believe was universal. She still says it sometimes.
Oh, and they wanted cola utan glass, which was very confusing to her with her struggling Danish. It brings back memories.
And yeah, Norway is incredibly expensive. I've only gone there on ski vacations, which probably made it worse, but some of those things were just so damn expensive I thought they were marked wrong.
I guess if your thing is brown cheese and lutefisk, though...... Sorry, Lille My. It probably tastes "skide godt" 😉
Oops, my bad. Although I'm pretty darn sure I've even used that term at MickyD in the US without getting blank stares in return.
That said, I think the term "&Co" for a value menu makes a little bit of sense (the fact that they substituted one English term for another was what had me and my compatriots confused). But I think this discussion was pretty much covered by Quentin Tarantino years ago... 🙂
That said, I think the term "&Co" for a value menu makes a little bit of sense (the fact that they substituted one English term for another was what had me and my compatriots confused). But I think this discussion was pretty much covered by Quentin Tarantino years ago... 🙂
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Hey guys --
First time poster. I'm currently a third year U.S. medical school student hoping to eventually practice in Sweden. I plan on doing my residency here, and was wondering what hurdles I will face along the way getting licensed in Sweden. My girlfriend is a native Swede who also went to medical school here in the U.S., and she plans on likewise doing her residency training here in the States before heading back across the Atlantic.
Any words of wisdom out there?
First time poster. I'm currently a third year U.S. medical school student hoping to eventually practice in Sweden. I plan on doing my residency here, and was wondering what hurdles I will face along the way getting licensed in Sweden. My girlfriend is a native Swede who also went to medical school here in the U.S., and she plans on likewise doing her residency training here in the States before heading back across the Atlantic.
Any words of wisdom out there?
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Hej!
i am from turkey and next year i am a senior student.I want to have a clinical clerkship in Sweden seeing that i will be able to improve my swedish.and also i want to have a residency(specialis)in sweden. i can speak intermediate level of swedish.Anyway any swedish student can help me about this point how can i apply for a clerkship in sweden anyinformation would be great for me.
Hej d
i am from turkey and next year i am a senior student.I want to have a clinical clerkship in Sweden seeing that i will be able to improve my swedish.and also i want to have a residency(specialis)in sweden. i can speak intermediate level of swedish.Anyway any swedish student can help me about this point how can i apply for a clerkship in sweden anyinformation would be great for me.
Hej d
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Basically, you'd gotta think awfully hard about what you want to do, regardless if you've got a European degree and want to go to the US, or vice versa.
Reason being, that there's NO system for mutual acceptance of specialist training. So basically, you'll be starting from scratch on either continent. That being said, a US board certification MIGHT count as partial training in Scandinavia. But since there's no board exams (only approved training progs., except in the UK) it's unlikely that any European country would automatically recognize a US board certification. So moving back and forth will almost invariably give a lot of grief and years earning pretty low resident salaries.
Speaking of salaries, many European docs, esp. med students, rave about the US pay, being generally much higher in $ terms and the possibility to attain a consultant/attending position much faster. However, it should be noted that US docs often works twice as many hours, at least. And if you factor in the price of the degree, cost of insurance and hours worked, I doubt that there's any real difference.
While it's probably always best to get a degree in the country where you expect to work, my feeling is that a European (esp. UK, and to some degree also Scandinavian) degree is generally well-received in the US. Same is generally true of a US degree in Europe. However, it'll be awfully hard to pay off a US degree on a European salary. Also note, that getting residency and work permits in Europe is almost getting harder than in the US, due to extremely tough immigration policies which, unfortunately, also hits US citizens.
So while it's certainly doable to move either way, it's probably a once-in-a-lifetime decision.
Reason being, that there's NO system for mutual acceptance of specialist training. So basically, you'll be starting from scratch on either continent. That being said, a US board certification MIGHT count as partial training in Scandinavia. But since there's no board exams (only approved training progs., except in the UK) it's unlikely that any European country would automatically recognize a US board certification. So moving back and forth will almost invariably give a lot of grief and years earning pretty low resident salaries.
Speaking of salaries, many European docs, esp. med students, rave about the US pay, being generally much higher in $ terms and the possibility to attain a consultant/attending position much faster. However, it should be noted that US docs often works twice as many hours, at least. And if you factor in the price of the degree, cost of insurance and hours worked, I doubt that there's any real difference.
While it's probably always best to get a degree in the country where you expect to work, my feeling is that a European (esp. UK, and to some degree also Scandinavian) degree is generally well-received in the US. Same is generally true of a US degree in Europe. However, it'll be awfully hard to pay off a US degree on a European salary. Also note, that getting residency and work permits in Europe is almost getting harder than in the US, due to extremely tough immigration policies which, unfortunately, also hits US citizens.
So while it's certainly doable to move either way, it's probably a once-in-a-lifetime decision.
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Hello! I'm so jealous of all of you over in Scandinavia. I used to live in Denmark, have spent gobs of time there, speak Danish, want to move back, etc.... My family is Norwegian and Swedish by background too, and I've been to both those countries multiple times. But alas, I have only an American passport and haven't yet found a way to get back!
I graduated from a US college a few years ago and recently finished all my premed classes as a post bacc. I'm applying to med schools this year. I'm thinking of applying to Irish schools so I can live in Europe for at least a few years and maybe longer. I'd apply in Denmark, but I don't want to take six years to get through medical school.
Nice to know there's a bunch of us who like Scandinavia on this website!
I graduated from a US college a few years ago and recently finished all my premed classes as a post bacc. I'm applying to med schools this year. I'm thinking of applying to Irish schools so I can live in Europe for at least a few years and maybe longer. I'd apply in Denmark, but I don't want to take six years to get through medical school.
Nice to know there's a bunch of us who like Scandinavia on this website!
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Hi please tell me about your karolinska u and on becoming a dr in sweden! i'm only a u.s. citizen. finished so far 1 year of undergrad classes at a school here, and next year i'll finish my premed classes. Might it be possible to go to the swedish school after those 2 years? When would i have to apply, might it be possible to apply late next spring(when i get my grades) for the next fall? What are the requirements to get in? I heard that tuition is free even for the internationals, so it must be very selective??
Also if i do go to school there i'd like to stay and work as a dr there. But could i then get into a swedish residensy of my choice? And although instruction at karolinska u is in english, dont i have to learn swedish to take their certificates to become a physician, similar to americans' usmle??
And i assuming i do become a dr there, how much will i make? I understand its much less than in usa, but there must be some perks?? Since i know that doctors always had it good in western europe... Just that the 3 months vacation is not enough for me, i also need to be able to afford my own house...
Also if i do go to school there i'd like to stay and work as a dr there. But could i then get into a swedish residensy of my choice? And although instruction at karolinska u is in english, dont i have to learn swedish to take their certificates to become a physician, similar to americans' usmle??
And i assuming i do become a dr there, how much will i make? I understand its much less than in usa, but there must be some perks?? Since i know that doctors always had it good in western europe... Just that the 3 months vacation is not enough for me, i also need to be able to afford my own house...
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Yeah, there's always that language catch.
Hi, I?m a swedish medical student about to start my 6th semester out of 11. I?m interested in getting a residency in the U.S. I know you have to take the boards and I?m wondering if there are any swedes out there who have taken them and have any advice on how to study, e.g. what things the medical education in sweden is lacking when it comes to board prep. And also, how much time you need to prepare, I have done my preclinical semesters and I?m wondering when the best time to take step 1 is? As for step 2, is ot doable before you graduate even though we haven?t done any ob/gyn/ped before our last semester?
I?d also like to get in contact with other swedes who are considering working in the U.S.! And one last question, you don?t have to do your "AT" - "internship year" before applying for a U.S residency, do you?
An y advice is helpful!
I?d also like to get in contact with other swedes who are considering working in the U.S.! And one last question, you don?t have to do your "AT" - "internship year" before applying for a U.S residency, do you?
An y advice is helpful!
Hi.
I'm Danish, not Swedish but here's my advice:
I took Step 1 after my 8th semester and did very well. I've heard of some people who waited and did well, too, though.
I plan to take step 2 before OB/GYN and peds. We'll see how that goes......
You don't need an intern year from Sweden to apply for residency. I've heard that they are important if you plan to return to Sweden but I'm not really sure about that.
There are a few real Swedes on here once in a while but if you have questions I could answer from a Scandinavian viewpoint, go ahead.
I'm Danish, not Swedish but here's my advice:
I took Step 1 after my 8th semester and did very well. I've heard of some people who waited and did well, too, though.
I plan to take step 2 before OB/GYN and peds. We'll see how that goes......
You don't need an intern year from Sweden to apply for residency. I've heard that they are important if you plan to return to Sweden but I'm not really sure about that.
There are a few real Swedes on here once in a while but if you have questions I could answer from a Scandinavian viewpoint, go ahead.
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Hejhej!
I'm swedish, and I study medicine in Copenhagen. I'm only at my third semester (starting in a month), but I've also been thinking about working in the US. How many hours do you have to put in in a week? Like someone here before said, that you work maybe twive as much in US as in Scandinavia, is that true? Anyway, the salaries seem to be more than the double.... right??
I'm swedish, and I study medicine in Copenhagen. I'm only at my third semester (starting in a month), but I've also been thinking about working in the US. How many hours do you have to put in in a week? Like someone here before said, that you work maybe twive as much in US as in Scandinavia, is that true? Anyway, the salaries seem to be more than the double.... right??
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panumanders said:
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Common misconception is that US docs make a killing. Not true, at least during residency. You can make nice dough IF you are board certified AND aren't getting killed by malpractise insurance premiums (not uncommon $100,000/yr. for OB/GYN, up to $300,000/yr. or more for neurosurgery).
But before you're board certified, there's residency, and often fellowships. That's 4-7 years earning $38,000-$45,000 a year. By comparison, a New York City police officer or firefighter makes $60,000 a year after five years... Resident and fellowship salaries simply aren't great, no matter how you cut it, especially if you live in an expensive area.
Working hours vary widely. In dermatology, it's 42 hr/week average for PGY-1, while it's 69 hr/week with up to 29 hr on-call in ortho. Some areas, like NYC, have tried to make a 80 hr/week cap, but working more is most certainly not unheard of.
Also note, that you can run into a really nasty trap, if you plan to get your degree in Europe and then go to the US to make a killing: Your J-1 visa requires that you go back for two years after you've finished your residency. Only escape route is to work in a "underserved" area, i.e. rural medicine. Fine, if that's your thing. Not fine if you plan to work in NYC, Boston, Miami LA or another big city.
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But when you're finished with residency and are a specialist, then you must be making good dough, right?
So I understand that it wouldn't be a good id?a from a economical point to go to the US before you have a speciality. But if you get that in Sweden (or Denmark), and then go to US, can't you you work as a specialist then?
So I understand that it wouldn't be a good id?a from a economical point to go to the US before you have a speciality. But if you get that in Sweden (or Denmark), and then go to US, can't you you work as a specialist then?
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That's way low, ortho interns and residents are working AT LEAST 88 hours a week.
Most interns/residents are working 60-70 hours a week and often near the 80 hour limit.
No, you must complete a US residency and fellowship to practice medicine in the US.
hello again
how much did you study for step 1? For how long time and how many hours a week (and what books?)
Are you planning on taking the CSA before you?re done with medical shool too?
Do you plan to gain clinical experience in the U.S. before you apply for residency (I?ve heard some programs require it).
And do you know if this is hard to get and if you can get it after med school?
Can?t you ever change your J-1 Visa into something else? I don?t think everyone who goes to the U.S. come back...
I?m sure in the end U.S. docs make more, how else are they able to pay off their gigantic loans?! But to go their for the money is probably not worth it in the beginning.
how much did you study for step 1? For how long time and how many hours a week (and what books?)
Are you planning on taking the CSA before you?re done with medical shool too?
Do you plan to gain clinical experience in the U.S. before you apply for residency (I?ve heard some programs require it).
And do you know if this is hard to get and if you can get it after med school?
Can?t you ever change your J-1 Visa into something else? I don?t think everyone who goes to the U.S. come back...
I?m sure in the end U.S. docs make more, how else are they able to pay off their gigantic loans?! But to go their for the money is probably not worth it in the beginning.
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As I see it, it's only when your a specialist that you make a lot more than you do here in Scandinavia. As for all the steps to a specialist, you almost make more money here in Scandinavia. That's why it's so sad that you can't use your residency from Scandinavia in the US.
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Hi everybody!
Just thought I'd check in. First post! Swedish student here, starting my third year at Karolinska in a couple of weeks. Been following the discussions here on the sdn forums for some time now; really a great source of info! I've thought about possibly doing my residency in the US, so this one and many other threads have been quite interesting. Don't really have anything to add here though, so I'll just go back to lurching in the shadows. 😀
Just thought I'd check in. First post! Swedish student here, starting my third year at Karolinska in a couple of weeks. Been following the discussions here on the sdn forums for some time now; really a great source of info! I've thought about possibly doing my residency in the US, so this one and many other threads have been quite interesting. Don't really have anything to add here though, so I'll just go back to lurching in the shadows. 😀
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panumanders said:
Yeah, from a financial and working viewpoint, it's difficult to claim that US docs are better off than Europeans (or vice versa).
1. Medical training is free or very cheap in Europe.
2. Resident net take-home pay is basically equal.
3. Yes, most US attendings certainly have a bigger paycheck than their European counterparts, BUT:
a) Pay vary a lot, not only due to of location and specialty, but also over time. Remember that, when you're training for a specialty you'd be doing the rest of your life.
b) They generally work a lot more hours.
c) Many have to purchase malpractise insurance out of their own pocket.
d) Generally, European attendings have very generous employer pension contributions.
e) When you get kids in the US, start saving for college. No such worry for Europeans.
SO, it's doubtful that your AVERAGE PER HOUR NET pay is much better in the US, compared to Europe, and that certainly shouldn't be the reason for jumping the continental divide. True, the best docs can certainly earn a lot more in the US than they ever would in Europe, but other than that, the real difference is nowhere near as large as a lot of Europeans think.
PS: Yes, I have also heard that esp. surgeon res. works A LOT. Figures, tho' was from FREIDA, whis is the only official statistics I've heard of...
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Hey,
I am 4th year student of medicine. I live in the EU country and I would like to go to the internship ( AT ) in Sweden right after finishing my studies. Is it possible? If it is, what I should do before finishing my studies?🙄
Thank you so much for your help 🙂
I am 4th year student of medicine. I live in the EU country and I would like to go to the internship ( AT ) in Sweden right after finishing my studies. Is it possible? If it is, what I should do before finishing my studies?🙄
Thank you so much for your help 🙂
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Hey having worked in Europe as a junior doctor / intern (although laws are changing) and now working in NYC I'll give you a confirmation. Although where I did work in Europe had uncapped call, it has since changed. At that time even though I was working a lot of hours (about 65 in medicine, 80+ in surgery) we were getting paid overtime. In that one year alone I estimate that I made between 80-90,000 euro. This was when the euro vs. USD was strong. I also had 6 weeks of vacation.
In the US, most programs will allow at most 4 weeks vacation per year. I'm in ER so this is capped at 60 hours in one setting (ie. we work 5 x 12 hour shifts, maybe a day or two off, then another run of between 2-5 days / nights). NYC is the highest paying residency but this does not mean anything because living expenses and taxes are exorbitant in this city. My first year, my annual salary was around 55,000. In reality I was getting maybe 48000 because of medicare / social security deductions and tax. This sounds good on paper but it's really not very much, especially as every day expenses are high. So... lots of stress, many demands, overworked, not paid that much.
In the US, most programs will allow at most 4 weeks vacation per year. I'm in ER so this is capped at 60 hours in one setting (ie. we work 5 x 12 hour shifts, maybe a day or two off, then another run of between 2-5 days / nights). NYC is the highest paying residency but this does not mean anything because living expenses and taxes are exorbitant in this city. My first year, my annual salary was around 55,000. In reality I was getting maybe 48000 because of medicare / social security deductions and tax. This sounds good on paper but it's really not very much, especially as every day expenses are high. So... lots of stress, many demands, overworked, not paid that much.
