Switching to rads from gen surg

[Surg2Rad]

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Hey everyone. I know this is pretty early in the year, but I can’t help but think that I chose the wrong specialty. I had a very difficult time choosing between rads and gen Surg out of med school, and ended up going with surgery last minute.

I just don’t love surgery as much as I thought I did. The OR is not that great of a motivator for me to put up with all the other parts of surgery. When it comes down to it, I can’t see myself in the shoes of my attendings.

Don’t get me wrong, I still think it’s a fascinating specialty, and I really respect those who do it, but I don’t care to do this day in and day out for the rest of my life. The saying of don’t go into surgery unless you can’t see yourself anywhere but the OR is ringing pretty true for me.

I realize it’s still very early, and part of what I’m feeling is definitely due to me starting on the most rigorous service we have, but I even had doubts going all the way back to when I was submitting my application, and they’ve gotten louder and louder the farther I’ve come.

I really think I’d be happier in radiology. Sure, the hours are shorter, but that’s the least of my worries, I don’t care about working hard and for long hours if I can see a goal in my mind. I just love the diagnostic aspect of radiology. To me, you get to forget about all the social work and nurse pages, and boil down medicine into pure pathophysiology.

I guess I came here to vent a little bit, because I’m feeling defeated by spending the last year trying to get a spot in something that I really don’t see a future in, but I also am curious about if any of you all did the same pathway, and what you think my next steps should be. Besides, of course, spending the next few months making absolutely sure that swapping is what I want to do. Any input is appreciated. Thanks for reading.

 

[Cognovi]

Hey everyone. I know this is pretty early in the year, but I can’t help but think that I chose the wrong specialty. I had a very difficult time choosing between rads and gen Surg out of med school, and ended up going with surgery last minute.

I just don’t love surgery as much as I thought I did. The OR is not that great of a motivator for me to put up with all the other parts of surgery. When it comes down to it, I can’t see myself in the shoes of my attendings.

Don’t get me wrong, I still think it’s a fascinating specialty, and I really respect those who do it, but I don’t care to do this day in and day out for the rest of my life. The saying of don’t go into surgery unless you can’t see yourself anywhere but the OR is ringing pretty true for me.

I realize it’s still very early, and part of what I’m feeling is definitely due to me starting on the most rigorous service we have, but I even had doubts going all the way back to when I was submitting my application, and they’ve gotten louder and louder the farther I’ve come.

I really think I’d be happier in radiology. Sure, the hours are shorter, but that’s the least of my worries, I don’t care about working hard and for long hours if I can see a goal in my mind. I just love the diagnostic aspect of radiology. To me, you get to forget about all the social work and nurse pages, and boil down medicine into pure pathophysiology.

I guess I came here to vent a little bit, because I’m feeling defeated by spending the last year trying to get a spot in something that I really don’t see a future in, but I also am curious about if any of you all did the same pathway, and what you think my next steps should be. Besides, of course, spending the next few months making absolutely sure that swapping is what I want to do. Any input is appreciated. Thanks for reading.

You have one and a half months to make your decision, talk to your program director, obtain recommendation letters (ask your medical school writers to re-submit, plus your current program director), and submit your application for radiology residency. If you secure a so-called R position (PGY-2 starting 2019), you won't have wasted any time at all.

If you spend the "next few months making absolutely sure", it might as well be "next year." And if you don't get an R position next year, you could find yourself not starting radiology until July 2021.

 

[JoshSt]

If you’re just a PGY1/intern I’d strongly consider giving it a full year before making the decision to switch. As Cognovi said above, you’d have to make that decision now and super quick. What if you go through the year and regret your decision. Adjusting to residency can be rough, especially if you have some tough love upper level residents and attendings. Surely, you’ll move onto better rotations and better people to work with.

You’ll get more and more responsibilities in the OR and hopefully come to enjoy.

If you’re absolutely sure or further along in your training, then do switch. Just consider the possibility that it might get better and you might start to enjoy it. You don’t want to live with regret.

And if you stay a year and still don’t enjoy it, then put all your efforts into switching. I’ve seen plenty of people switch from gen surg and other surgical subspecialties to rads and do great.

 

[Surg2Rad]

You have one and a half months to make your decision, talk to your program director, obtain recommendation letters (ask your medical school writers to re-submit, plus your current program director), and submit your application for radiology residency. If you secure a so-called R position (PGY-2 starting 2019), you won't have wasted any time at all.

If you spend the "next few months making absolutely sure", it might as well be "next year." And if you don't get an R position next year, you could find yourself not starting radiology until July 2021.

You have one and a half months to make your decision, talk to your program director, obtain recommendation letters (ask your medical school writers to re-submit, plus your current program director), and submit your application for radiology residency. If you secure a so-called R position (PGY-2 starting 2019), you won't have wasted any time at all.

If you spend the "next few months making absolutely sure", it might as well be "next year." And if you don't get an R position next year, you could find yourself not starting radiology until July 2021.

Thanks for the reply. What do you think the odds are of me being able to find an opening R-1 spot outside of the match? There are almost 20 radiology residents per year in the city I’m in.

 

[Surg2Rad]

If you’re just a PGY1/intern I’d strongly consider giving it a full year before making the decision to switch. As Cognovi said above, you’d have to make that decision now and super quick. What if you go through the year and regret your decision. Adjusting to residency can be rough, especially if you have some tough love upper level residents and attendings. Surely, you’ll move onto better rotations and better people to work with.

You’ll get more and more responsibilities in the OR and hopefully come to enjoy.

If you’re absolutely sure or further along in your training, then do switch. Just consider the possibility that it might get better and you might start to enjoy it. You don’t want to live with regret.

And if you stay a year and still don’t enjoy it, then put all your efforts into switching. I’ve seen plenty of people switch from gen surg and other surgical subspecialties to rads and do great.

Hmm. Ok I would really rather not take another year if I know there’s not a future, but it’s better than switching before I’m absolutely sure I guess.

 

[colbgw02]

I'm not a surgeon and I didn't do a surgical prelim year, but isn't the conventional wisdom that surgery residents tolerate the early years of running the floor knowing that they'll get a lot more OR time later? If the OP has already decided that the attraction of the OR isn't enough to keep him going, then I doubt that things get better.

OP, I would continue to work hard in order to try to establish a good reputation as fast as possible. As mentioned already, you unfortunately don't have a lot of time to do this. Then, approach your PD about your change of heart. You're going to need him/her eventually during this process, so there's no use in trying to hide your plan.

Once your PD knows your plan, then try to contact radiology residencies directly about transferring. If you end up in the match, then there are typically a number of "R" position and you can continue your training without interruption. Assuming you're competitive, the worst case scenario is that you have a gap year that you have to fill.

 

[Cognovi]

Thanks for the reply. What do you think the odds are of me being able to find an opening R-1 spot outside of the match? There are almost 20 radiology residents per year in the city I’m in.

Because of the NRMP All-In Policy, there are limited time frames and situations when a spot can be available outside the match
The rules are confusing and explained here: http://nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Policy-Highlights-Programs.pdf
Available residency positions are listed here: APDR | Association of Program Directors in Radiology
There are many more applicants seeking open positions outside the match: APDR | Association of Program Directors in Radiology

 

[JoshSt]

I'm not a surgeon and I didn't do a surgical prelim year, but isn't the conventional wisdom that surgery residents tolerate the early years of running the floor knowing that they'll get a lot more OR time later? If the OP has already decided that the attraction of the OR isn't enough to keep him going, then I doubt that things get better.

In one month though? On presumably one subspecialty/focus? Don’t get me wrong, I’d recommend to anyone to go into radiology and think the world of it, I’m just bringing up the possibility that in time (even giving it 2-3 months) they may like the OR.

 

[JoshSt]

Hmm. Ok I would really rather not take another year if I know there’s not a future, but it’s better than switching before I’m absolutely sure I guess.

If you’re sure then you’re sure. Did you get a good bit of surgical AIs and rotatations MS4? Did you have doubts then? I’m not trying to challenge your decision if you’re sure, just don’t want you to regret switching if things get a lot better and more fulfilling over the course of the year.

 

[TCOM12]

As bad as it sounds, everyone sells out in medicine at some point. The ones who figure it out earlier end up in lifestyle specialties.

Examples: anesthesiologist who does pain medicine. Plastics who goes from cleft palates to breast augmentation (or vaginal rejuvenation). Family doc who stops seeing Medicaid patients. Obgyn who joins a hospitalist type group because they don’t care about the continuity of care.

Here are the realities about radiology— it has also become shift work and although the hours are better, you better be ready to work. I read 150+ studies yesterday, which includes about 70 cross sectional.

It’s the best job in the world. You should switch if it’s your heart’s desire. Many people have meandering paths through medicine that aren’t picture perfect. Switching residency, having to repeat a year, getting fired and switching specialties, leaving private practice and re-doing fellowship in something else.

You’re likely not the only person thinking about switching so my best advice is to be the squeaky wheel and get a leg up on people early. Call programs you think you may want to go to and see if they’re thinking about expanding spots (a lot of places are since DR/IR).

Best of luck.

 

[colbgw02]

In one month though? On presumably one subspecialty/focus? Don’t get me wrong, I’d recommend to anyone to go into radiology and think the world of it, I’m just bringing up the possibility that in time (even giving it 2-3 months) they may like the OR.

Under almost any other circumstances I would agree with you. It just seems like the natural history of interest in surgery starts with a huge spike due to the fascination of being in the OR, followed by a decline to one degree or another as we become less fascinated or the reality of all the non-OR surgery stuff sets in. Those with a small decline become surgeons; the rest of us don't. I've just never met anyone who disliked the OR but grew to like it as a mid-to-upper level resident. The OP said he already had a difficult time choosing as a student, so I say make the switch now while he/she can potentially train without interruption.

 

[JoshSt]

Under almost any other circumstances I would agree with you. It just seems like the natural history of interest in surgery starts with a huge spike due to the fascination of being in the OR, followed by a decline to one degree or another as we become less fascinated or the reality of all the non-OR surgery stuff sets in. Those with a small decline become surgeons; the rest of us don't. I've just never met anyone who disliked the OR but grew to like it as a mid-to-upper level resident. The OP said he already had a difficult time choosing as a student, so I say make the switch now while he/she can potentially train without interruption.

Point well taken, you’re right

 

[Surg2Rad]

Wow I didn’t know that was a thing. Looks like there are quite a few people looking to switch into rads spots. Does anyone know of someone who found a position this way?

 

[JoshSt]

Wow I didn’t know that was a thing. Looks like there are quite a few people looking to switch into rads spots. Does anyone know of someone who found a position this way?

Yeah, I know of two surgical residents that switched into rads (at different time periods) through an outside the match mechanism. Don’t know any particulars beyond that, but just to highlight it’s very doable.

 

[Surg2Rad]

Th

Yeah, I know of two surgical residents that switched into rads (at different time periods) through an outside the match mechanism. Don’t know any particulars beyond that, but just to highlight it’s very doable.

That’s great to hear. Thanks for your input!

 

[Redemonstrated]

Where are you? PM me.

I'm a DR resident at a top 5 program in a big city looking into switching into a surgical field.

 

[Surg2Rad]

Where are you? PM me.

I'm a DR resident at a top 5 program in a big city looking into switching into a surgical field.

I am in Texas, I couldn't find out how to PM you for some reason.

 

[Surg2Rad]

Does anyone have advice for how I should pursue this? I was thinking I should reach out to my radiology program here and ask about any research projects I could get on this year to strengthen my resume and get to know their faculty a bit more. I don't know if I should tell my PD about this before I pursue it though in case the radiology faculty talk to him.