Take COMLEX, not USMLE...???

[droogdoc]

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I've seen a number of posts about that it is good to take the USMLE & COMLEX as it would open more doors for you, especially if you did well on the USMLE. But if you do not do as well on the USMLE it looks bad when applying to strong allo residencies, but do you HAVE to release it if you take it?

From the threads I searched I saw this question posed but never answered, at least not confidently by people....if you take both, and you do well on the COMLEX and not so well on the USMLE, can't you just release the COMLEX score to the residency program? I thought they were administered by separate agencies.

 

[ShyRem]

Um..... i think you're getting ahead of yourself here. First you have to get INTO medical school, then you actually have to PASS the first two years of school.

THEN, and ONLY THEN, can you even think of taking boards.

However, this has been discussed extensively in the medical student forums, and I'll give you the short answer here:

As a DO student, you must take COMLEX (obviously). However, you also have the option to take USMLE boards. So when ERAS comes around (this is now FOURTH YEAR of medical school), you have the option as a DO student of entering the AOA match or the ACGME match or both. Should you rank both sets of programs and match to an AOA program you are automatically withdrawn from the ACGME match. As an applicant to the AOA match, you must release your COMLEX scores, and are not required to enter your USMLE scores. If you enter the ACGME match and have taken the USMLE, even if you failed it, you must report those scores on ERAS. Failure to do so can result in your match being rescinded. So it is in your best interests if you choose to take the USMLE to do very well.

Now. If I were you, I would concentrate on getting into medical school first. Otherwise your ruminations are all so much wasted effort.

 

[droogdoc]

I'm getting ahead of myself? Just asked a question. Don't see why someone can't try to learn and be informed about everything, even out of straight curiosity.

Anyway, thanks for answering my question.

 

[ShyRem]

Yes, getting ahead of yourself considering only about 1/3 of applicants actually get into medical school at this point.

Now also, you have to consider the rules change. USMLE is considering dumping step 1 and instead doing a large exam consolidating steps 1 and 2 which students would take after their third year with the potential of this taking place in 2010. Program directors aren't happy about this potential change and neither are students (except for the consideration of their wallets). There is also talk of all exams being mandatory reporting in the future regardless of which match you enter. There has always been talk of a joint match, but the AOA is fighting this tooth and nail and denies the possibility, even though the talk persists and plenty of folks would prefer a joint match. And of course, Medicaid has always talked about pulling financial support for residencies due to budgetary considerations. And who knows what Obama's health care plan will do to medical education in the future (talk about the white elephant in the room).

So yes, getting ahead of yourself. Everything is subject to change (and likely will by the time you're ready for boards if you get into medical school).

 

[swamprat]

Yes, getting ahead of yourself considering only about 1/3 of applicants actually get into medical school at this point.

Now also, you have to consider the rules change. USMLE is considering dumping step 1 and instead doing a large exam consolidating steps 1 and 2 which students would take after their third year with the potential of this taking place in 2010. Program directors aren't happy about this potential change and neither are students (except for the consideration of their wallets). There is also talk of all exams being mandatory reporting in the future regardless of which match you enter. There has always been talk of a joint match, but the AOA is fighting this tooth and nail and denies the possibility, even though the talk persists and plenty of folks would prefer a joint match. And of course, Medicaid has always talked about pulling financial support for residencies due to budgetary considerations. And who knows what Obama's health care plan will do to medical education in the future (talk about the white elephant in the room).

So yes, getting ahead of yourself. Everything is subject to change (and likely will by the time you're ready for boards if you get into medical school).

relax man with the whole get into med school part very obnoxious. droogdoc's got like 6 interviews lined up im sure if u looked at the statistics of acceptance post-interview at every school and did some type of mathematical equation he is already in someplace.

 

[rocketbooster]

I don't know what ShyRem is talking about. I don't think he/she knows, either.

First of all, 50% of applicants get accepted into medical school. And that # is based on MD applicants. It's probably even higher for DO applicants.

Second of all, it is HARD to fail out of medical school. Med schools almost make it impossible to fail out.

Third of all, it is not as hard to be accepted into med school as ppl think IF you are applying to MD, DO, and Caribbean schools. Medicine is one of those things that you will get into eventually with enough persistence, which may mean reapplying a few times haha.

 

[supergumbo]

Now also, you have to consider the rules change. USMLE is considering dumping step 1 and instead doing a large exam consolidating steps 1 and 2 which students would take after their third year with the potential of this taking place in 2010. Program directors aren't happy about this potential change and neither are students (except for the consideration of their wallets). There is also talk of all exams being mandatory reporting in the future regardless of which match you enter. There has always been talk of a joint match, but the AOA is fighting this tooth and nail and denies the possibility, even though the talk persists and plenty of folks would prefer a joint match. And of course, Medicaid has always talked about pulling financial support for residencies due to budgetary considerations. And who knows what Obama's health care plan will do to medical education in the future (talk about the white elephant in the room).

That's quite scary, even if they are just musings.

 

[Terpskins99]

I've seen a number of posts about that it is good to take the USMLE & COMLEX as it would open more doors for you, especially if you did well on the USMLE. But if you do not do as well on the USMLE it looks bad when applying to strong allo residencies, but do you HAVE to release it if you take it?

In the past, people have been able to get away with not reporting their scores, but I wouldn't count on it whenever its your time to apply for residency.

But to address the title of the thread... I think anyone can do well on the USMLE with enough preparation, and I advise every DO student to take USMLE Step 1 (especially if they intend to pursue a competitive specialty). Now, if you know you struggle with standardized tests (and there are many practice USMLE's you can take that will determine this for you), then obviously you should steer clear of the USMLE.

Um..... i think you're getting ahead of yourself here. First you have to get INTO medical school, then you actually have to PASS the first two years of school.

Second of all, it is HARD to fail out of medical school. Med schools almost make it impossible to fail out.

Absolutely false. There are students that flunk out every medical school class in the country because they assume exactly what you're saying. The only reason why this number is only a small number of students in each class is because typically MOST people who make it into medical school are fairly intelligent and presumably have strong work ethics. Its selection bias. Medical school is tough to get through and pass. Don't kid yourself. If you slack off in medical school, I guarantee the school will have no hesitation in letting you go.

Now, if you can manage to get past the first two years I will admit it is pretty tough to flunk out. Its pretty much unheard of for any student to flunk out during 4th year. Those few students that leave during 3rd or 4th year almost always do so for personal reasons.

 

[DrDre2001]

I do not think the OP is getting ahead of himself.

I am a senior at college right now and I wish I had known about this forum 4 years ago just so I could ask questions like the OP asked that would add to my knowledge of what to expect in the future.

And for me, it was interesting to read your answers ShyRem. You seem to know have a good knowledge base in terms of this stuff and nothing bad can come out of undergraduates like me and the OP reading it.

 

[droogdoc]

Hey Terpskins99, thanks for the info. Much appreciated!!!

 

[engineeredout]

Second of all, it is HARD to fail out of medical school. Med schools almost make it impossible to fail out.

Doesn't feel like its hard to fail to me.

And shyrem is right. While its going to have a general idea of the progression of whats going on with board exams, its a long way away. Don't worry, whatever school you end up attending will let you know whats what with boards. Just get yourself into a place you like.

 

[w a n g]

okay so what if youre a DO student doing ACGME match? do you have to report COMLEX scores even if you have step 1/step 2 usmle scores?

 

[ShyRem]

I believe ERAS rules state you must report comlex scores. The only option is reporting usmle scores if you are ONLY doing AOA match. At least that's how I read them. See the ERAS subforum of General Residency for more information regarding current and past ERAS application years.

 

[nascardoc]

I don't know what ShyRem is talking about. I don't think he/she knows, either.

First of all, 50% of applicants get accepted into medical school. And that # is based on MD applicants. It's probably even higher for DO applicants.

Second of all, it is HARD to fail out of medical school. Med schools almost make it impossible to fail out.

Third of all, it is not as hard to be accepted into med school as ppl think IF you are applying to MD, DO, and Caribbean schools. Medicine is one of those things that you will get into eventually with enough persistence, which may mean reapplying a few times haha.

First off, ShyRem is extremely knowledgeable and an extremely valuable resourse here on SDN.

Second, your "numbers" are very off mark. 50% of applicants DO NOT matriculate into medical school. At my school alone, there were about 20 applications per seat...far from 50% admission rate.

Third, it is NOT difficult to fail out of medical school. Yes, schools will give you a second chance, usually, but don't kid yourself for a second. You screw around, you will fail, hands down every single time. It's not a free ride just because you got in...you have to work hard all the time.

Finally, yes, your chances increase if you apply MD, DO and Caribbean, but it is NO guarantee. If you don't have the grades, exam scores, and personality schools are looking for, you won't get in. Every year, there are people who apply for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th times and still get rejected.

 

[droogdoc]

Yeah, I think that 50% figure is wrong too for number of people applied, but the poster may have meant number interviewed who were accepted, because that figure is above 50% for many schools. On the NSU-COM post someone put the figures for Nova for last year, and the acceptance rate for people INTERVIEWED was 75%.

But yeah, APPLIED vs. ACCEPTED is definitely below 50%, more around 40% or even 33% as ShyRem stated.

 

[123165]

I agree there. AMCAS had 42,231 applicants for ~18k spots in 2008.
42%

Who knows what AACOMAS is though.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/2008summary2.htm

 

[scpod]

I agree there. AMCAS had 42,231 applicants for ~18k spots in 2008.
42%

Who knows what AACOMAS is though.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/2008summary2.htm

For AACOMAS, 37.4% (11,742 aplicants for 4,389 seats) that applied matriculated. Keep in mind that figure is artificially low because many of those who aplied may have taken MD spots in the end. There really is no way I know of to get a better figure.

http://publish.aacom.org/about/fastfacts/Documents/FastFacts/FF-2008ApplicantsProfile.pdf

 

[scpod]

I don't know what ShyRem is talking about. I don't think he/she knows, either.

First of all, 50% of applicants get accepted into medical school. And that # is based on MD applicants. It's probably even higher for DO applicants.

Second of all, it is HARD to fail out of medical school. Med schools almost make it impossible to fail out.

Third of all, it is not as hard to be accepted into med school as ppl think IF you are applying to MD, DO, and Caribbean schools. Medicine is one of those things that you will get into eventually with enough persistence, which may mean reapplying a few times haha.

I won't go talk much about your statements, since a few others have chimed in already, but I do have a comment to offer. I just took the written part of step two this morning and I'm working on residency applications this evening. The last thing I have time to do is read messages from a group of anal pre-meds who think their own opinions are dogma. Yet, I take the time out nearly every day to help where I can and point you guys in the right direction. ShyRem does the very same thing. We volunteer to help out because we have been in the same situation before and survived it. You can choose to believe what you want to believe.... but we have been there and done that already. It might not hurt you to listen to some upperclassmen every now and then.

 

[123165]

For AACOMAS, 37.4% (11,742 aplicants for 4,389 seats) that applied matriculated. Keep in mind that figure is artificially low because many of those who aplied may have taken MD spots in the end. There really is no way I know of to get a better figure.

http://publish.aacom.org/about/fastfacts/Documents/FastFacts/FF-2008ApplicantsProfile.pdf

Thanks scpod, your reasoning looks pretty sound to me on the lower percentage.

 

[DrDre2001]

Also ^, of course, you have to consider perhaps that largest group of people who do not get into medical school: those who self-select themselves out and do not apply in the first place.

To say that it is easy to get into medical school is just very wrong, period.