Take DO acceptance or reapply MD

[DOVinciRobot]

Does this mean kycom has accreditation problems? Or it has controversial views on protesting for social justice movements like @Goro said about LMU?

It means they have extremely poor clinical rotations. I would personally never go there, and cannot recommend it.

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[jhmmd]

DO NOT ATTEND THIS SCHOOL. Several people I know there hate it. Please do not take SDN's advice point blank and ask this same question on reddit, at the very least. If it was a better DO school I would have said go for it but this is literally the worst, second to LMU.

They have high turnover and can't keep their faculty. It went even as far as students joking the school would shut down. They've had some professor(s) arrested for domestic violence. Rotations are non-existent and they don't even have a home IM program. I know several students who signed leases in different states for rotations, only for the school to lose partnership with that hospital literally 3 days before rotations. Then they "doubled up" these students with others in different states, diluting their already weak education. Imagine paying $50k/yr for this. In other rotations there's often so little volume that you're sent home at 10 AM. Some might think this is great because you have the entire day free, but again.. you're paying $50k/yr so you can play videogames for 10 hours instead of learning medicine? Some will say "use this time to study?" Guess what... you don't need to study 300 hours for each shelf exam

By the end of my first year at my school I was better clinically than my friends were at this school. They didn't even know how to use an EMR as third years whereas 2 months into my school (MS1) Epic (EMR) was like a second language to me. This matters more than you think.

They also have a traditional curriculum with lots of poorly written exams. Lots of questions get thrown out (essentially meaning that you're studying irrelevant material). It's a big waste of time (the resources they give you) but you have to use them if you want to pass. Sure, everyone can use outside resources (every school) but the curriculum will eat up so much of your time. They're also very big on OMM and you will get reprimanded if you question or ask them to provide any evidence to back it up

There's a reason 85% of their students go into primary care (their IM is mostly community and VERY few match GI/Cardio/HO from IM). I was in your shoes (with much lower stats) and I fortunately got accepted into an MD school. With your 510, 3.5sGPA and being from Ohio, you have an AMAZING chance at your state/nearby state MD schools, private MD like Loyola, RFU, etc. You have a nearly 100% shot at BETTER DO schools. Only 2-3 DO schools will ask if you've turned down acceptances or reapplied, etc.... Also, there's no way for any school to find out if you say no (not telling you to lie - but just making you aware). SDN acts like "Congrats, you get to be a doctor!" as if that's all that matters.... specialty choice doesn't matter, having a supportive school doesn't matter.... all they care about is being called "Doctor". Again, do not listen to me. Go ask this same question on Reddit where people are more balanced.

Many D.O. schools have similar stats.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

AMAZING chance at your state/nearby state MD schools, private MD like Loyola, RFU, etc. You have a nearly 100% shot at BETTER DO schools. Only 2-3 DO schools will ask if you've turned down acceptances or reapplied, etc.... Also, there's no way for any school to find out if you say no (not telling you to lie - but just making you aware). SDN acts like "Congrats, you get to be a doctor!" as if that's all that matters.... specialty choice doesn't matter, having a supportive school doesn't matter.... all they care about is being called "Doctor". Again, do not listen to me. Go ask this same question on Reddit where people are more balanced. A lot of people here giving you bad advice are 1) non-med students (premeds and pre-others), 2) non-MD faculty who have a fixed mindset 3) salty med students who want you to suffer like they did

Isn’t it going to be increasingly difficult for top students from MD schools in the category similar to those mentioned to match competitive specialties too? Would be a mistake for OP to forgo an acceptance just to take a risk to quite possibly end up in the exact same place

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Not sure what you're asking really. Competitive specialties (ENT, NSG, Derm, Ortho) etc are going to be competitive whether MD or DO. Semi-competitive specialties (Rads, anesthesia, IM--> GI/Cards) are MUCH MUCH easier as an (average) MD student. My school advisor told me that I just need to PASS (true P/F school) and no research required for my desired (semi-competitive) specialty. I spoke with recent alumni and they all told me the same. I'm not looking to match at Ivory towers but I will likely end up at respectable programs that pay their residents well and don't overwork them (lots of opportunities to moonlight and make $130k+ as PGY3/4).

Going to low-caliber school like this will close many doors. OP would have a very difficult time matching in a semi-desirable location regardless of specialty (primary care or semi-competitive)

Have any classes matched with P/F step 1 though? I am under the impression that in the past, students from lower MD schools could equalize the playing field (to some extent) by getting high step scores. Now that seems to be off the table at least until PDs can shift towards evaluating step 2 ck.

I’m not saying you or your advisor is wrong and am not trying to be argumentative. This was just an impression I got browsing med student forums

 

[jhmmd]

My guy. There are like 5 DO schools with a 507-510 average but OVERALL only around 20% of DO students have a 510+. You also just proved my point. Stats don't matter very much once you go past 505-ish (great indicator of board success). What matters then is individual discipline. However, it is hard to be disciplined and perform well when your own school tries to screw you over with redundant material, ineffective study strategies/advising, mandatory/forced QBanks (Kaplan), etc

1. MCAT score doesn't matter much when you get to medical school--as you said, it mainly predicts success on the USMLE, Step 2, Step 3, shelf exams, boards, etc. (which you have take continuously throughout your life as a doctor)
2. I wasn't disagreeing with you--merely pointing out that most students from D.O. schools go into primary care. Look at ERAS/osteopathic.org stats if you don't believe me. This article shows that over 56% of students matched into family medicine, IM, peds, and combined primary care programs. This is similar to the statistic that you quoted in your post (85%).
3. "Individual discipline" is not going to make a difference at the end of the day when you ignore all of the help that your school is giving you. I will say that I'm not in your shoes so I don't know what it's like at KY-COM. But if you don't know how to study, med school is gonna be difficult and it's not gonna come down to discipline. But to each his own.

 

[jhmmd]

It doesn't matter how smart you are if you're faced with obstacles from the very beginning. The faculty/school there literally does NOT want students matching into anything outside of primary care. I have literally heard horror stories and it's been dubbed "operation primary care".

Regional bias is also a huge thing. I believe a lot of people are not understanding what P/F Step 1 means. It doesn't mean that suddenly the academia anesthesia program "X" in Madison-Wisconsin will suddenly be filled with 20-ivy league graduates. Programs will continue to recruit from the same schools/regions. That academic anesthesia program "X" might have had 9 residents from state MD schools and 1 DO who blew Step 1/2 out of the water. Now, they might just decide to go with 10 MD students because it's easier for them since Step 2 is taken so late and not taken by all DOs. Even if only 50% of programs become "lazy" like this - it will greatly diminish one's chances

Why?

 

[jhmmd]

r/medicalschoolPosted by u/throwawaydoc12357891 year agoSerious
[Serious] Name and shame my medical school
Not sure how many other MS4's are going through this, but the utter lack of care our school has for our graduating class surprised me, so I figured the best way to change the culture was to name and shame. I'm a fourth year med student as Kentucky College of Osteopathic Medicine (KYCOM), now recently graduated.
During the beginning stages of covid, our school initially seemed to do a good job, pulling medical students off of rotations towards late march. Everything was subsequently transitioned online. This is when things started becoming a bit sketchy.
We were told to enroll in an online EM rotation to make up our requirements. This involved us watching several videos off a free EM video resource website and compiling a summary of the information. We emailed it to our dean, who for me, never responded or acknowledged completion.
We found out about 2-3 weeks in advance that our graduation would be canceled and transitioned to a virtual platform, stageclip. We weren't given any information on how this would occur or take place other than that we need to upload a picture taken of us from 2nd year and an optional video portion if we so choose. I, along with numerous other classmates, were under the impression that the graduation would be a live facetime like platform where we could show our faces and have our name called. Schools had done it for match day (not ours, it was just canceled), how hard could it be for graduation.
During the week prior to graduation, students had to email our dean and faculty to get more information on what was going to happen, what time, etc. We didn't receive responses until 2-3 days before graduation where we were told it would be prerecorded and uploaded onto stageclip's website at 9:30 AM. I was crushed. I had my heart set on being able to see the faces of my classmates one last time. I did get to see them, in a slideshow of our second year photographs.... Our hopes were still set on being able to take photos in our school regalia. We had to reach out to Herff Jones individually to try and get more information. It turned out that our school had told them the wrong graduation date (May 16th instead of May 2nd) so the regalia company had not even began processing everyone's regalia. A lucky 65 students were able to get theirs early. The rest of the class is still waiting. We also have to return the regalia within 30 days as our school did not want to purchase it for us.
On top of this, students are given a graduation gift every year, prior classes received $100-$200 amazon gift cards per student. An email was sent asking how fourth year grad funds were being allocated and we received a very rude/blunt email stating "other schools have had the tradition of the alumni association giving graduate gifts, we are going to take on this method" which resulted in us being mailed a 3 inch flashlight as our school graduation gift. No apologies for lack of regalia or late diplomas were mentioned in this email. Supposedly, our dean might be returning soon with a nice going away present from our administration. Wouldn't be surprised if the extra funds from canceling grad is making this present even nicer.
It has been a fairly ongoing tradition of disappointment from our administration, but graduation really took the cake. I don't think I've ever been let down by our school as much as I have in my last few weeks of being a student there.

EDIT
I wanted to add some updates from comments from classmates as well as some clarifications. To name a few other concerns below:

1. Graduation is not the only thing our school has handled poorly, it was really just the thing that clarified their lack of care for the student body that drove me to post this. I apologize for making it seem like that was the only thing I cared about.
2. Yes, we were asked/required to use a drug testing company ran by one of our deans. Definitely a big point of complaint regarding our school.
3. During the first two years of medical school, most of our questions/suggestions/concerns fell on deaf ears. We had a curriculum committee chair who pushed ideas at admin meetings for us where the result typically seemed to be "We'll think about it." and then it was never discussed again.
4. We have a deans forum every month, where a lot of the answers to questions from the student body are political and wave off actually answering the questions.
5. I'm fairly certain i only heard from my school ~3-4 times the entirety of third year
6. Not much guidance fourth year, set up the entire year on my own and had to wait for the school to approve the rotations I asked for. This usually entailed us emailing the request with no reply ~85% of the time.
7. It's completely possible to be successful regardless of the above. I'm not saying KYCOM is a path to failure. I matched where I wanted and am happy about it. A lot of our class had good matches this year, but I don't think our school contributed to that.

I'm not saying these are unique to our school nor am I naive enough to think so. I have several friends at other schools who deal with a lot of the same issues. But I also think that medical school is starting to cost way more than it should for just being a 4 year path to a piece of paper. If costs are going to rise every year, what price point do we wait to demand more from schools than allowing us to sit for board exams and get a degree? And what solution is there to air these complaints that could actually get schools to notice other than publicly? We've tried it privately and to the school admin itself, that has never done anything.
692 upvotes•160 comments

TBH, this post and it's comments from other alumni doesn't even highlight 10% of the horror stories I've heard. Obviously, there are a lot of FM-focused students at this school who are just happy to graduate and get a $250k+ job, especially if they come from the surrounding area where the avg salary is $35k. However, if one has higher aspirations than being the "Town doctor" then look elsewhere

I asked you why "the faculty/school there literally does NOT want students matching into anything outside of primary care." I understand that people are trashing KY-COM on Reddit. But this doesn't answer my question.

 

[jhmmd]

Because to start off - they literally have no resources to help you if you want anything other than FM (which just requires a pulse if you want to simply match anywhere). I've heard some faculty failed boards (FMG) so now just teach.

For example, I was talking with a young FM attending the other day who graduated from a T20 school. The basis of our convo was what separates a family doctor from a GOOD family doctor. He is always staying up to date on the latest guidelines, using medical apps and lots of innovative resources, etc. Apply this to medical schools. Some medical schools (like mine) spend millions each year on academic support (we literally have a team that is dedicated to creating CUSTOMIZED study schedules for us and showing us how to use school AND third party resources effectively), mental health, a research office that walks you through everything and funds you to the tune of thousands, etc. Obviously my school is very privileged to have these resources. Schools that don't have the capital to invest in such things are at a disadvantage. It is "safer" for them to push everyone towards FM and have a 98%+ chance of matching somewhere than to give a few people hope for a more competitive specialty with a lower match rate for that individual due to being DO/little to no ECs, etc

1. Not exactly--people who fail Step 1 (and have a pulse) do not match into family medicine, much less elsewhere
2. I understand that you feel like your school is not spending enough money on its students. However, this doesn't connect A ("the faculty/school there literally does NOT want students matching into anything outside of primary care") to B (your money/resources point). It is speculation that the faculty/staff are pushing people to match into family medicine, unless you have data to support this.
3. I am fully aware that it is safer to apply to a specialty that requires lower board scores if your board score is on the lower side. However, what you are suggesting is a generalization, and the 2013 ACGME merger stipulated that there are no more "D.O. residencies," so a lot of things are changing.
4. Maybe other KY-COM students could chime in about this.

 

[jhmmd]

There is a very active KYCOM grad on SDN who failed COMLEX and then matched her top choice psych residency. I can tell you that I know SEVERAL IMGs (from non "top 4" caribbean schools) who failed Step 1 (and delayed it by a year) and succesfully matched IM and are now doing decent fellowships like PCCM and also great general IM docs. There are several programs who will take anyone with a pulse

Please show me proof of a program that simply asks for a pulse, not a medical degree. Goodness. That's enough. Have a nice night

 

[alkaline]

How does it compare to a tough course load at a “rigourous” undergraduate

 

[deleted688186]

DO NOT ATTEND THIS SCHOOL. Several people I know there hate it. Please do not take SDN's advice point blank and ask this same question on reddit, at the very least. If it was a better DO school I would have said go for it but this is literally the worst, second to LMU.

They have high turnover and can't keep their faculty. It went even as far as students joking the school would shut down. They've had some professor(s) arrested for domestic violence. Rotations are non-existent and they don't even have a home IM program. I know several students who signed leases in different states for rotations, only for the school to lose partnership with that hospital literally 3 days before rotations. Then they "doubled up" these students with others in different states, diluting their already weak education. Imagine paying $50k/yr for this. In other rotations there's often so little volume that you're sent home at 10 AM. Some might think this is great because you have the entire day free, but again.. you're paying $50k/yr so you can play videogames for 10 hours instead of learning medicine? Some will say "use this time to study?" Guess what... you don't need to study 300 hours for each shelf exam

By the end of my first year at my school I was performing better clinically than my friends were at this school in their FOURTH year. They didn't even know how to use an EMR as third years whereas 2 months into my school (MS1) Epic (EMR) was like a second language to me. This matters more than you think.

They also have a traditional curriculum with lots of poorly written exams. Lots of questions get thrown out (essentially meaning that you're studying irrelevant material). It's a big waste of time (the resources they give you) but you have to use them if you want to pass. Sure, everyone can use outside resources (every school) but the curriculum will eat up so much of your time. They're also very big on OMM and you will get reprimanded if you question or ask them to provide any evidence to back it up

There's a reason 85% of their students go into primary care (their IM is mostly community and VERY few match GI/Cardio/HO from IM). I was in your shoes (with much lower stats) and I fortunately got accepted into an MD school. With your 510, 3.5sGPA and being from Ohio, you have an AMAZING chance at your state/nearby state MD schools, private MD like Loyola, RFU, etc. You have a nearly 100% shot at BETTER DO schools. Only 2-3 DO schools will ask if you've turned down acceptances or reapplied, etc.... Also, there's no way for any school to find out if you say no (not telling you to lie - but just making you aware). SDN acts like "Congrats, you get to be a doctor!" as if that's all that matters.... specialty choice doesn't matter, having a supportive school doesn't matter.... all they care about is being called "Doctor". Again, do not listen to me. Go ask this same question on Reddit where people are more balanced. A lot of people here giving you bad advice are 1) non-med students (premeds and pre-others), 2) non-MD faculty who have a fixed mindset 3) salty med students who want you to suffer like they did

There is a very active KYCOM grad on SDN who failed COMLEX and then matched her top choice psych residency. I can tell you that I know SEVERAL IMGs (from non "top 4" caribbean schools) who failed Step 1 (and delayed it by a year) and succesfully matched IM and are now doing decent fellowships like PCCM and also great general IM docs. There are several programs who will take anyone with a pulse. Maybe not in your area but in many parts of the country programs will take what they can get.

Also, if OP was from California I would have said take the acceptance. However, a 510/3.5sGPA/3.6cGPA from Ohio is literally a freaking god in terms of competitiveness. OP has a great chance at their state school

Thank you for your reply, it's certainly a lot to think about. I will definitely ask reddit as well. I thought I had a decent shot with my regional MD schools, considering someone I know with the exact same scores as me got into a good number of the MD programs nearby. I have a solid amount of clinical experience and volunteer hours, and have been told many times I am a strong writer. However, I understand that nationally speaking my stats are quite tame/on the less competitive side of average. I have to place a deposit on KYCOM or VCOM by early March, so its a bit stressful trying to figure this all out.

 

[deleted688186]

It means they have extremely poor clinical rotations. I would personally never go there, and cannot recommend it.

This is what I was concerned about above all else. I also can't find comlex scores or residency matches (KYCOM posts them in 4 year groups). I am not opposed whatsoever to entering primary care, but I also don't want to severely limit my options from the get-go.

 

[NontradICUdoc]

Can you give an example of the "whole person approach" that isn't taught in MD schools?

The tenants of Osteopathic Medicine include Mind, Body, and Spirit. As far as I know this is not a focus in the allopathic model. Taking care and treating the whole person is part of any good medical training regardless of the letters after your name. These three things are always being discussed during the pre-clinical education and is stressed throughout training.

 

[deleted688186]

Off the top of my head approx 1/3 of their students take USMLE and average <214 and quite a few fail. avg COMLEX is ~490-500 (below national avg). I can get more solid numbers if you need. Attrition is approx 6-10% after first year. In the early 201X's their COMLEX pass rate hovered around 60-68% (their avg mcat was equivalent to today's 491). They've come a long way but are still towards the bottom. The majority of the class now is 498-504. For my friend's class they had several students with low 490s (including 3 people I know personally), none took USMLE

We are products of our environment. Another thing to consider is if you're in the top 5% of the class (stats wise - but doesn't really mean much coming from a low-caliber school) is if you will be "dragged down". Right now, I'm about average at my school and I love having classmates who are more intelligent than me. I learn so much from them and things that come easy to them take me longer to grasp. It can be demoralizing not having that sort of "challenge"

Man, those scores are not terribly impressive lol. I'm really hoping I hear back from some of the other DO schools I applied to.. I guess I should have just waited to apply MD/DO at the same time. Feels like I've really shot myself in the foot. Do you think I should put the deposit down on VCOM-LA then? I was accepted there on Friday.

You said that you had been in my shoes- does that mean with the way I applied (DO only) with relatively competitive stats? Or did you mean that you were considering applying to KYCOM.

 

[deleted688186]

Not quite. I had DO stats (huge upward trend tho) but you could say I got "lucky" with an MD acceptance (2 MD IVs - in addition to countless DO IVs) which is uncommon as an ORM. My undergrad circle are all in DO school or residents now. Most tell me they wish they took some gap years to improve their app and give MD a shot (most would have had a good chance) - a few are happy with their decision.

Not to generalize but some DO schools give me shady-caribbean school vibes in the way they operate. ARCOM 67.5% COMLEX passrate
View attachment 350958

Take a look at class of 2023 for ARCOM. over a third of the class of 2023 did not pass COMLEX and now they've decided to HIDE this information
COMLEX Performance - ARCOM They are probably waiting for retakes so they can make the numbers appear prettier

This is common among low-caliber schools. If anything unordinary happens (pandemic, faculty abruptly leaves/is fired, etc) they are slow to react and adapt as needed - and it is students who suffer (you can read all about some schools randomly changing exam dates, etc). I've heard KYCOM would randomly create and require mandatory lectures on random topics during board prep time in order to "disrupt" the focused studying

Another thing to consider. Look at number of MATRICULANTS versus number of MATCHED students. Many schools will skew the data to show 98%+ match rates but when you look closely at some of them, they may have started with a class of 250 but matched only 210.

Thank you for all this information- I am so frustrated by the obfuscation. Given schools’ ability to hide their shortcomings, I find it odd that receiving an acceptance seems to bar students from reapplying.

What do you think I should do at this point?

 

[deleted688186]

It does suck. If you were to directly ask the schools "How many students flunked out?" "how many started vs how many matched?" "How many matched a dead end prelim or non-top choice specialty?" They will all give you shady politician-style non answers or give you some bs "We can't disclose that"... this was the excuse we used when I worked in fast food. Anytime I didn't want to bother with a customer's request I'd just say "Oh, it's store policy and we can't accommodate your request". Except here you're spending $300k+ and betting your career, not ordering a $3 burger

If I were in your shoes I would reapply MD (and DO). You will have more control over the trajectory of your career (specialty, location, better networking). I think you have a good chance with your stats to regional schools. It is one extra year that will transform the next 40+ years of your career. Ultimately, that decision is for you to make.

I will definitely have to mull this over hard. I had been strongly considering doing what you’re advising, but I saw so many threads here telling people in a situation similar to mine that I should go with the A and run. Now I have no idea lol.

Is it likely that I will burn the bridge with all DO schools by refusing an acceptance this cycle?

 

[deleted688186]

You will not burn any bridges. Especially at schools you haven't applied to before. If you want extra assurance, withdraw from other DO schools you're pending at. They have no way of knowing if you turned down an acceptance or if you didn't get accepted anywhere and are reapplying.

For what it's worth, the school I'm attending now rejected me during my first cycle. My application was virtually unchanged when I reapplied. Sometimes it's just random like that. With your higher-than-average stats (for DO) many DO schools will accept you by september (if you apply early in the cycle) and they will all be salivating over your deposit money (since they know most 510-ish people eventually get into better schools )

That is super interesting! It’s quite at odds with what many folks on this forum would claim.. is that a misconception?

 

[deleted688186]

Medicine tends to attract conservative people. You'll hear them say "one in the hand is better than two in the bush". But what I've noticed is that they fail to disregard each individual circumstance and just give give advice with a broad brush. If you had a 502/3.2 and you asked this question I'd tell you to take the DO acceptance and run. But with your stats you have a great shot. Again, ask this question on Reddit, ask people you know in real life (not friends who are afraid to hurt your feelings and sugarcoat things)

I’m super grateful for your candidness and willingness to dissent from the consensus here. I also appreciate the feedback of those who believe I should take my DO acceptance and move on. I will definitely ask more folks irl and on Reddit for their insight as well. This is a lot to think about.

Would it be possible for me to pm you in the future?

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Not exactly--people who fail Step 1 (and have a pulse) do not match into family medicine, much less elsewhere

Yes they do. All the time….

It is speculation that the faculty/staff are pushing people to match into family medicine, unless you have data to support this.

This is a well known phenomena at most DO schools actually, and it’s not speculation. I personally know multiple people in my class who were told “you won’t match X, you should apply to <insert local FM program here>.” And this was at one of the “best” DO schools, and the students were very qualified with excellent applications who ended up going on to match X. Schools such as KYCOM and LMU are even more notorious for such behavior.

 

[Med Ed]

I’m super grateful for your candidness and willingness to dissent from the consensus here. I also appreciate the feedback of those who believe I should take my DO acceptance and move on. I will definitely ask more folks irl and on Reddit for their insight as well. This is a lot to think about.

In most circumstances it pays to take the acceptance and run. That said, if I were in your shoes I would reapply with the goal of either matriculating MD or getting into a better DO school.

Your stats are below average for MD, but so are the stats for (approximately) half the people who get into MD schools.

The single most important thing your medical school will provide you is its clinical education. This is significant because the rapid expansion of DO schools is creating a glut of medical students that far outstrips the capacity to teach them in clinical sites. I know this may seem like an abstract future problem to premeds, but if you attend a school with poor clinical training, guess what happens? You graduate as a poorly trained doctor, and then have to fight to become anything beyond mediocre.

 

[Goro]

It doesn't matter how smart you are if you're faced with obstacles from the very beginning. The faculty/school there literally does NOT want students matching into anything outside of primary care. I have literally heard horror stories and it's been dubbed "operation primary care".

Regional bias is also a huge thing. I believe a lot of people are not understanding what P/F Step 1 means. It doesn't mean that suddenly the academia anesthesia program "X" in Madison-Wisconsin will suddenly be filled with 20-ivy league graduates. Programs will continue to recruit from the same schools/regions. That academic anesthesia program "X" might have had 9 residents from state MD schools and 1 DO who blew Step 1/2 out of the water. Now, they might just decide to go with 10 MD students because it's easier for them since Step 2 is taken so late and not taken by all DOs. Even if only 50% of programs become "lazy" like this - it will greatly diminish one's chances

Anyone who goes to KYCOM expecting to go into high end residencies deserves what they get for not doing their homework.

The mission of the AOA is to train Primary Care physicians. This is not a state secret. The top three specialties for DO grads are FM, IM and EM.

 

[Med Ed]

With all due respect. OPs stats are average or ABOVE average for an Ohio resident.

I understand that, but I said MD, not Ohio MD. Per the AAMC Table A-16, the average MD matriculant has an MCAT of 511.9 and GPA of 3.74. There will obviously be variation based on institution.

 

[Bulba]

This thread is concerning me because I also have an A at kycom.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Anyone who goes to KYCOM expecting to go into high end residencies deserves what they get for not doing their homework.

The mission of the AOA is to train Primary Care physicians. This is not a state secret. The top three specialties for DO grads are FM, IM and EM.

Unfortunately my opinion is that not all DO schools are created equal and some schools significantly inhibit you than even the usual DO tax. There are much better DO options open to OP with their stats.

Ideally they just get accepted to one of the better schools they already have interviews to.

 

[MDMechEngr]

Sorry for getting a little offtrack. Do not rush to apply b/c taking a gap year, or two, can make a world of differnece on your application. People with 508 and a good gpa (>3.7) can improve their MCAT if they invest the time (8 hrs/day, 5 to 6 days/week, 3 months). A friend of mine who is from a very very unlucky state had a 3.9+ gpa and scored a 508 with a decent amount of studying (not 100% effort). He was confident he could do better on the MCAT. He took another gap year (2 gap years total). He scored 512 on the MCAT retake. He also added a good amount of clinical and non-clinical hours to his EC. He was accepted into a T25 school and had As from multiple MD schools. I am sure there are people on here that took an extra gap year and it still did not work for them. However, it sounds like OP will not need to retake the MCAT. OP has more upside than downside if they apply to MD and DO schools in the next cycle.

 

[chilly_md]

This thread is concerning me because I also have an A at kycom.

So KYCOM hasn’t had current students or alumni complain in the school specific threads the past 3 years that I checked. In fact, there are a good deal who support it. The user who posted the Reddit thread and all the claims about KYCOM seems to have made their account the other day.

A comment in the Reddit thread included the following:

I also graduated from KCYOM this year. This post is just a carry over from the class’s facebook page where a handful of people like to complain about anything and everything that the school does. It’s often well beyond the usual, normal bitching that everyone does about their school/job/life.

Pikeville is in the middle of nowhere Eastern Kentucky, and a lot of students came into the school angry that they “had” to go there because they didn’t get into any other school. Some students were happy that KYCOM gave them a chance in spite of their mediocre MCAT scores. Some students, for some reason, resent the school for it. If you went there/go there, you’ll know what I mean.

People have complained that the school isn’t writing them checks for not having an in person rotation in April. The LAST rotation. They want a check like it’s REI sending them their yearly dividend. KYCOM is also one of the least expensive private DO schools in the country.

Nobody had ever heard about a class gift, and then when they found out a class gift existed, were mad that the gift wasn’t good enough. I don’t know, I was happy to get a flashlight.

The communication has not been perfect. It hasn’t been perfect anywhere. My girfriend goes to a “better” MD school and she has had many of the same issues. The school has been more focused on what to do with incoming 1st years, 2nd years, and 3rd year. We were already done! By the way, KYCOM got all of my paperwork to the state licensing board and my program the next day. That’s all we really need from them at this point.

It sucks we didn’t have an in person graduation. It sucks that it was a recorded video. It sucks people didn’t get their regalia in time. I didn’t get my regalia either, and I know my mom was upset that we didn’t get that picture together. But you know what we did? We moved on because there is a global pandemic and things aren’t going to go how you always thought and hoped they would. It will make a better story in 30 years when I tell the med student working with me that I didn’t even have a graduation.

I went to KYCOM. Matched into my top residency choice at a competitive program. I graduated in a strange ceremony. And later this summer I’ll start working in the ED in a current covid hotspot. Wouldn’t have happened without KYCOM. Most people in the class have moved on because, you know, we’re doctors and that’s awesome. A handful are continuing to complain, and instead of keeping it where they usual do, are trashing the school on reddit. Go bears.


It’s a school that you may want to choose LECOM over if you get in there. Otherwise, I’m not really sure if it’s worth passing a year’s worth of physician salary for another round of seeing if you’ll get in somewhere else.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

So KYCOM hasn’t had current students or alumni complain in the school specific threads the past 3 years that I checked. In fact, there are a good deal who support it. The user who posted the Reddit thread and all the claims about KYCOM seems to have made their account the other day.

A comment in the Reddit thread included the following:

I also graduated from KCYOM this year. This post is just a carry over from the class’s facebook page where a handful of people like to complain about anything and everything that the school does. It’s often well beyond the usual, normal bitching that everyone does about their school/job/life.

Pikeville is in the middle of nowhere Eastern Kentucky, and a lot of students came into the school angry that they “had” to go there because they didn’t get into any other school. Some students were happy that KYCOM gave them a chance in spite of their mediocre MCAT scores. Some students, for some reason, resent the school for it. If you went there/go there, you’ll know what I mean.

People have complained that the school isn’t writing them checks for not having an in person rotation in April. The LAST rotation. They want a check like it’s REI sending them their yearly dividend. KYCOM is also one of the least expensive private DO schools in the country.

Nobody had ever heard about a class gift, and then when they found out a class gift existed, were mad that the gift wasn’t good enough. I don’t know, I was happy to get a flashlight.

The communication has not been perfect. It hasn’t been perfect anywhere. My girfriend goes to a “better” MD school and she has had many of the same issues. The school has been more focused on what to do with incoming 1st years, 2nd years, and 3rd year. We were already done! By the way, KYCOM got all of my paperwork to the state licensing board and my program the next day. That’s all we really need from them at this point.

It sucks we didn’t have an in person graduation. It sucks that it was a recorded video. It sucks people didn’t get their regalia in time. I didn’t get my regalia either, and I know my mom was upset that we didn’t get that picture together. But you know what we did? We moved on because there is a global pandemic and things aren’t going to go how you always thought and hoped they would. It will make a better story in 30 years when I tell the med student working with me that I didn’t even have a graduation.

I went to KYCOM. Matched into my top residency choice at a competitive program. I graduated in a strange ceremony. And later this summer I’ll start working in the ED in a current covid hotspot. Wouldn’t have happened without KYCOM. Most people in the class have moved on because, you know, we’re doctors and that’s awesome. A handful are continuing to complain, and instead of keeping it where they usual do, are trashing the school on reddit. Go bears.


It’s a school that you may want to choose LECOM over if you get in there. Otherwise, I’m not really sure if it’s worth passing a year’s worth of physician salary for another round of seeing if you’ll get in somewhere else.

Ya one of the first comments was along the lines of “what type of advanced medicine are they teaching that costs 100k per year). I was so shocked that a school would cost that much in Kentucky that I looked it up. Tuition is like 45k/year apparently which is significantly less than the tuition at most private allopathic schools

 

[chilly_md]

"Passing up a year's worth of physician salary" is a moot point. If that extra year means matching into a better specialty (and one that pays more), a better location (so you're not depressed and 3 hours away from an airport) - where overeating and binge drinking become your only hobbies, and all the other benefits that come from "better" schools are worth it

Many people do MD/PhD fully knowing they're giving up 4 years of "a physicians" salary and then do nothing with the PhD or do something they could have done with only an MD

There is no guarantee you match into a “better” speciality and it’s possible the OP is not interested in ortho, derm etc anyways.

OP also likes the location, and I don’t think depression, overeating, and binge drinking are inevitable just because the school is 3 hours from an airport. I could say that binge drinking and greasy food is common in NYC too anyways.

There’s no need to be frustrated at a school just because it’s in a rural area and tries produce primary care physicians.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

OP has said that he would be happy in primary care earlier on in this thread. So that is something to keep in mind.

I know that some in state medical schools will meet with IS applicants pre application for advice either formally or through fairs. Is it possible for OP to reach out to wright state, Toledo, and OSU so that he could get an idea of overall competitiveness at these schools? I don’t know if they offer this, but since it seems like OH may be one of those states that would look to heavily recruit IS applicants. I would just hate to lead OP down a path towards applying MD and losing an acceptance

I don’t know much about DO schools, but are the others that he is interviewing at stronger programs? This could all be moot if he gets into one of the better schools

 

[chilly_md]

OP has said that he would be happy in primary care earlier on in this thread. So that is something to keep in mind.

I know that some in state medical schools will meet with IS applicants pre application for advice either formally or through fairs. Is it possible for OP to reach out to wright state, Toledo, and OSU so that he could get an idea of overall competitiveness at these schools? I don’t know if they offer this, but since it seems like OH may be one of those states that would look to heavily recruit IS applicants. I would just hate to lead OP down a path towards applying MD and losing an acceptance

I don’t know much about DO schools, but are the others that he is interviewing at stronger programs? This could all be moot if he gets into one of the better schools

CCOM is a stronger DO program. LECOM’s branch campus is tougher to pin down, but the Erie and Florida locations are traditionally high-quality. Though the administration at the Florida campus has had a lot of complaints.

 

[chilly_md]

@Tgfu34 @Medscigirl

If you could please give some more insight into this discussion, I think that would help a lot.

 

[Medscigirl]

Ok so there’s a LOT to unpack here. I was just made aware of this post and as a current graduating 4th year I’m going to give my advice/experience in regards to KYCOM. I am not paid by KYCOM nor do I have any reason to be anything other than honest. If you have any questions you can always message me.

1) Yes, most (if not all) DO programs are more geared to primary care (it’s in the mission), but that does not mean you can’t do something else. We have plenty of options for matching into other specialties. It really just depends on what you want to do and how competitive you are. Last year we had people match into IM, ER, Anesthesia, IR, heme/onc. We have had people match into ortho, derm within the last 2 years. It really just depends on what people want. There are clubs for every discipline that have people come and speak about what they specialty entails, offer shadowing and info about conferences.

2) I went to a ton of conferences ( at least 8 that I can remember over my years) and always got reimbursed for travel and stay. It depends on how much the club raises to fund members to go, there are also scholarships you can apply through the actual organization hosting the conference.

3) faculty and turnover: yes we have experienced a good amount of turnover. When I was a 1st year there was some drama about a professor (who never ended up teaching us) and domestic abuse. Our Dean retired my 2nd year and yes faculty left with him-some were ready to retire as well and others just left for other reasons. When the new Dean was elected some faculty didn’t care for the way he wanted to run things so they left, others just found better offers. This Dean left his position this past year and was replaced by our 3rd Dean who was a main faculty to begin with and is a great physician and teacher. Keep in mind that every place goes through growing pains. Pikeville is a rural area and sometimes people want to be in a larger city and have their own reasons for leaving. Some people have been there for over 40 years and are ready to retire. It just happens. Our 2nd Dean left because he was diagnosed with cancer…not because he just wanted to leave. On the outside it can look like we can’t keep faculty, but when you know the reasons it makes more sense. The faculty we have a good and really care about the students from my own experience. They will talk with you and help you with your study strategies as much as possible.

4) Being successful in your field is largely up to how much you put in and that’s true of wherever you go. For instance, when I shadowed for a week at a prominent ER at a traditionally MD program as a 2nd year, I knew way more than the 3rd year MD students. The faculty/attendings were very impressed with me, asked where I went to school at etc. I think the same stories can go both ways so take those with a grain of salt. You get out what you put in and that’s true of any program. I felt very prepared going into rotations and now going into residency.

5) rotation sites. Yes they can change, yes some sites pull out mostly because of money-another program is paying them more, or because they were really opened just for certain students to begin with (nepotism). We have very solid sites in KY that don’t really change much. Michigan was the site that pulled out this past year and last year. They were only taking like 2 or 3 students and while that sucked and realistically the hospital could have let admin know prior to selection time save the heartache and last min scrambling. I know that they are putting measures in place to prevent this including paying sites a little more and contracts. Each site also differs on strong and weak areas…again, that’s all places. For instance, my site sucked at OB and Peds. I’m not wanting to do either of those so it didn’t matter to me, but was strong in areas I was interested in. Each year the 3rd years rate their sites and put comments in an excel sheet for the upcoming 3rd years so they can make a better decision about where they want to go. I had a few rotations where I got to leave early but that wasn’t the norm.

6) Board prep is given to students for free and includes Uworld for those taking USMLE. As well as other question banks. There are also review sessions at the beginning of each year hosted by faculty to give you a review of the year prior to help solidify things.

7) OMT is big at KYCOM for sure. We have knowledgeable staff who also serve in leadership roles nationally as well as faculty who are in text books for their work with OMT. If you don’t want to do OMT afterwards you don’t have to, but while you are at KYCOM it’s a good idea to learn it as you are going to be a DO…and it makes boards go smoother since you have a great knowledge base. The exams are more challenging than they need to be so I agree with that.

8) I can’t remember anything else from the post lol, but seriously, if you have questions let me know. I’m super transparent and can only tell you what I know.
If you want to be the next leading researcher or famous plastic surgeon, this isn’t the place for you. I would also say that if you want to be at a prestigious residency program this probably not the school for you. If you want to be a good doctor with a good education and compassion, it’s a good place for you. I’m watching my friends and previous classmates flourish at the moment.
I feel like my education at KYCOM was good. There are things that sucked and things that were great. No school is perfect.

 

[Medscigirl]

Also, there’s no guarantee you will be accepted to an MD program next year and if you decline at one school you likely won’t get another offer there next time. Each year the requirements go up and board scores also go up. I had two friends who wanted to go to medical school at the same time I did and both wanted to hold out for specific programs and one specifically an MD program. Neither were ever excepted into medical school and ended up having to go into different fields because their requirements consistently increased and they were not able to match those. The one thing across-the-board with most DO schools is that they take into account the entire applicant and not just scoring. Board scores do not predict what type of physician you will be. They are however, a way of slimming the vast amount of applicants into a smaller interview pool.

 

[Medscigirl]

Residency Placements | UPIKE

This is data from 2018-2021

 

[chilly_md]

People who are competitive and got into T20 schools are also more likely to try to pursue the most competitive residencies.

Not everyone would do derm if they could. That’s silly. Some people find one speciality very boring while others like it. Money isn’t necessarily going to convince them to do it if they know they’ll be miserable.

The mean debt claimed by KYCOM is about 160-170k.

 

[stinkycheeseperson]

some nonsense i can't be bothered to quote

you do know some people want to do primary care and serve their communities and such, right? i mean, are you this horrid to people who pick the maine track or go to the meharry/state-resident-only/primary-care focus special program MDs? jeez louise, dude.

if i wound up in derm i'd be a) disappointed in myself and b) very depressed at the idea of doing it for the rest of my life.

10% attrition doesn't sound too bad either, that's a couple each of life, fails, other programs, etc.

t20 MD to random DO school is hardly a relevant comparison and you're clearly trying to pick a fight.

i don't what it is about this school that's given you such a bugbutt but you are overly invested in a very odd way.

 

[jhmmd]

I agree, not everyone wants to do derm but it's also silly to say that that most people wouldn't take a less stressful job that pays more.

Also, I really really dislike stats about finances supplied by schools. I agree that KYCOM is reasonably priced for a DO school but it is always best to do your own calculations

KYCOM states that it is debt incurred ONLY at KYCOM, does not include undergrad or masters debt (15-25% of med students these days have a masters degree). Again, $167k is reasonable but are they averaging in people with $0 and people with scholarships?

At my school the average is 250k but it includes undergrad AND grad. We have some people with two masters degrees even. I myself will owe $350k (and our tuition is MUCH lower than KYCOM) - I just happened to do an expensive undergrad and SMP. Many people at my school are incurring <$80k due to our cheap tuition, average/below avg COL, and tons of scholarships


It's a little high. 4-5% would be more reasonable. It's 1% at my school (and most years we match the same number we matriculate).

6 Ortho, 1 Uro, 2 Derm, 14 Anesthesia, 2 rads. That's <5% in "competitive specialties". I know a few who failed to match EM and ended up in their back up (IM) - not very reassuring either

It's not like derm is just there for whoever wants a less stressful jobe, dude. Derm takes a lot of hard work, and while anesthesia, optho, rads, and derm aren't going anywhere, it's not like you can cherry-pick stats and call them outliers. Few students at MOST medical schools go into ROAD specialties. It really depends on the caliber of your medical school class.

As an aside, I would be careful trashing your school on a public internet forum.

 

[chilly_md]

I don’t really care what debt people picked up in undergrad. That’s their own personal thing. I care what they picked up for their medical school training. It’s an average and you wanted to go off about DOs with much higher debt loads than students at T20 schools.

I’m pretty sure a majority of them don’t get a scholarship there and pay full freight because the school knows their reputation will lure them in, aside from the cream of the crop that some schools offer significant aid to.

Yes of course MD has lower attrition. That’s because most schools will chuck out applications from people with a below 500 MCAT. Maybe KYCOM should be more stringent but they have a mission they value and try to toe the line.

 

[stinkycheeseperson]

Isn't it amazing how most DOs (who tend to have larger debt loads of $200-$400k) "choose" primary care but T20 MDs (Who tend to be debt free or owe <$200k due to scholarships/rich parents) tend to choose more lucrative and competitive specialties.

dont call people names thats rude

 

[jhmmd]

Again, it seems like you are just speaking out of your you know what. KYCOM does have an agreement with the state/hospitals to pay off one's tuition if they commit to primary care in certain regions of the state for 5 years. If someone is happy with this arrangement (rural living etc) more power to them. USC dental does the same with their "average indebtedness" of like $500k but a year alone is $160k with COL included. My friend will owe $700k upon graduation and many of her classmates will as well. She did tell me a large portion of the class is debt free (loaded parents) so the school will average those $0s to make the number look more pretty. Please use some logic

I would rather be making $500k in a more lucrative specialty and pay off my own debt in 1-2 years then make bank than have someone give me a one time handout of 200k and pay me $200k/yr as a PCP.

Why are you so dead-set on comparing specialties?

 

[Bulba]

i don't what it is about this school that's given you such a bugbutt but you are overly invested in a very odd way.

I agree, I think they may have some sort of deep rooted bias against KYCOM which is especially odd for a medical student attending a different school. Its also odd that they just made their account 2 days ago and started bashing the school all of a sudden. @homunculusus Do you have any personal reason or experiences why you feel this abnormally strong about kycom? What did the school do to you?

 

[jhmmd]

I agree, I think they may have some sort of deep rooted bias against KYCOM which is especially odd for a medical student attending a different school. Its also odd that they just made their account 2 days ago and started bashing the school all of a sudden. @homunculusus Do you have any personal reason or experiences why you feel this abnormally strong about kycom? What did the school do to you?

It's been quoted earlier in the thread and on Reddit

 

[Medscigirl]

TBH 2 derm matches out of 499 students is hardly "some people chose to do derm". Isn't it amazing how most DOs (who tend to have larger debt loads of $200-$400k) "choose" primary care but T20 MDs (Who tend to be debt free or owe <$200k due to scholarships/rich parents) tend to choose more lucrative and competitive specialties.

It's not rocket science. Everybody would do derm if they could - but they can't (its also hard for low-tier MDs).

Also 499 matches over 4 classes indicates ~10% attrition which is around what I heard from my buddies. They lost 15 students from their class, which sounds about right. The attrition does seem to be getting better but still a reason for concern

~30% FM and 30% IM (most won't likely match GI/Cards). A good chunk seem to be in a dead-end prelim, am I wrong? Two in radiology (I spoke to one of them through my friends - and he told me the resistance he faced from the school).

6 Ortho, 1 Uro, 2 Derm, 14 Anesthesia, 2 rads. That's <5% in "competitive specialties". I know a few who failed to match EM and ended up in their back up (IM) - not very reassuring either


Not sure what you're trying to get at here. OP is above average for nearly 100% of DO schools and about average at most midwest/south state schools (definitely competitive for OSU, Toledo, Wright State, Neomed etc). Btw I know one of your classmates transferred to Neomed and loves it there = didn't have nice things to say about their former school, unfortunately

Again, you have to keep in mind that most people going to KYCOM want to do FM, Peds or IM. One of my classmates that matched IM went to Mayo in Jacksonville FL so I think she will specialize in whatever she wants just fine. I have never had the desire to go into Derm and know few people that have. Yes they get paid a lot of money to do skin, but that’s not why most people want to go to medical school. My whole point is that while we are (and most DO schools are) geared towards primary care, it doesn’t mean that is what you have to do. I never met any resistance when I wanted to do EM, and when my friends wanted to do surgery, heme/onc, anesthesiology, they didn’t either. They matched in those specialties just fine.
Yes, we have lost a few students along the way, some cant cut it and others had family/health emergencies that were unavoidable, I know one who dropped after 1st year because she realized it wasn’t what she wanted to do. This isn’t just KYCOM though. I chose to go here over LECOM and LMU-DCOM because I was 1 of 135 student not 250 or more. I like faculty who I can talk to, who know me and I’m not just a number and that is what I found at KYCOM.
No idea about transferring out to another school. I haven’t heard of that at all unless it was during the 1st week of school because transferring doesn’t happen often but I’m glad they are liking where they are at. Transferring schools is not a common event in any school so I’m happy that they were accepted there.
As far as debt goes, we have one of the lowest tuition rates around. No I’m not relying on my parents to fund me and I did not come from a house full of physicians who can use their influence and money to buy my way in. I worked hard and it paid off. Ill make plenty of money and have the career I want to have in the end so I’m happy with that. There are scholarships you can apply for if you want to both nationally and within the school. I never had to get a post-bac in order to go to school, but some students have in order to up their GPA and become more competitive which is something the author of this thread needs to think about…how they plan to spend their gap year should they choose to take a year off just to apply again. That would lead to more debt, but you will be able to pay it off in the end.
For the transition year… I can only comment on one. He was unsure of what exactly he wanted to do (IM or OB) and then decided on IM so now he is in an IM residency. Either way, I wouldn’t consider it a dead end. He will have a great job as IM physician in whatever specialty he does in the end.

 

[chilly_md]

Look, we get it. Maybe you had a friend who went to KYCOM and didn’t like it. Or maybe you did and you made up your story about going to a better school where tuition is dirt cheap and there are scholarships galore. You could be in-state at a school in Texas or Florida. If so, that’s great.

I don’t really know what you have against the school. Maybe since it’s an osteopathic one in rural America. It has a specific mission that they try to follow. If they have a tuition agreement program, that’s great for them to do. While it could turn out to be on the level of schools that aren’t usually recommended like LMU, Nova, ARCOM, BCOM etc, it hasn’t had that kind of bad reviews or concern about the education being provided.

 

[deleted688186]

This all got kind of heated in a not-so-productive way. I wonder what happened with @homunculusus posts.. It seems like the general verdict is that I should take what acceptance I receive, but some have suggested reapplying to both types of schools next cycle. I need to decide by the end of the week. Are the odds of me scoring more interviews low this late into the cycle?

 

[Angus Avagadro]

This all got kind of heated in a not-so-productive way. I wonder what happened with @homunculusus posts.. It seems like the general verdict is that I should take what acceptance I receive, but some have suggested reapplying to both types of schools next cycle. I need to decide by the end of the week. Are the odds of me scoring more interviews low this late into the cycle?

My school would interview through April, so it's possible.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

you do know some people want to do primary care and serve their communities and such, right? i mean, are you this horrid to people who pick the maine track or go to the meharry/state-resident-only/primary-care focus special program MDs? jeez louise, dude.

if i wound up in derm i'd be a) disappointed in myself and b) very depressed at the idea of doing it for the rest of my life.

10% attrition doesn't sound too bad either, that's a couple each of life, fails, other programs, etc.

t20 MD to random DO school is hardly a relevant comparison and you're clearly trying to pick a fight.

i don't what it is about this school that's given you such a bugbutt but you are overly invested in a very odd way.

Not trying to nitpick, but I believe typical attrition rates for med schools would be 2 to 5%. Just my experience. Half are usually due to people deciding they don't want to do medicine and half for academics.

 

[homunculusus]

This all got kind of heated in a not-so-productive way. I wonder what happened with @homunculusus posts.. It seems like the general verdict is that I should take what acceptance I receive, but some have suggested reapplying to both types of schools next cycle. I need to decide by the end of the week. Are the odds of me scoring more interviews low this late into the cycle?

I deleted them because the conversation became distracted from your original question.

FWIW I was "complete" in mid October at my current school and half of my class was accepted after February (however, for the vast majority of MD the earlier the better and most fill up by January)

For DO schools I've heard of interviews going late into the summer.

The decision is ultimately yours. I will summarize the points I previously made. I included evidence for all of my statements and not just conjecture or "feelings" like many other opposing viewpoints here.

1) This is a primary care focused school and if you're okay with that then go for it. Many people don't have exposure to other specialties and are only familiar with PC prior to med school - so if you "fall in love" with a different specialty it is harder to pursue coming from a school that does not have even a department of internal medicine.

2) This school has 10% attrition and 1% of students in "competitive" fields like derm/ortho/ENT/uro, and <4% in "semi-competitive" like anesthesiology/radiology. The vast majority of IM matches are community hospitals so chances of lucrative subspecialties (GI/cardio) are low - if you're interested in that.

We all know/agree that succeeding in med school falls 80% on the individual. Schools can either help or hurt in the remaining 20%. Mandatory/irrelevant courses during board studying is not conductive, and mandating using specific QBanks (Kaplan, Comquest, etc) can hurt. My school is essentially self study since it's P/F. So we mostly focus on Anking/UFAPS (and get great early clinical experiences through our school) + access to UWorld and other resources. We are not bogged down by exams created by PhD with big egos that test irrelevant minutiae (irrelevant for boards and for clinical practice). You will also be dedicating 4-6 hours/week to OMM which you could instead use for studying or relaxing.

KYCOM: Residency Placements | UPIKE
Boonshoft: Match Results | Boonshoft School of Medicine | Wright State University
Toledo: Match Day Results: 2021
OSU: Match Results | Ohio State College of Medicine

I linked match lists at school you have a great chance at matriculating into. Do with it as you will. Before others attack me - we know that match lists are not the end-all be-all but it does say something when it skews one way or another. There's a reason a thread exist in the DO forum titled "IM invites" because everyone and their grandma wants to match academic IM for many reasons (better education, better cities, access to fellowships such as GI/Cards).


3) School reported average debts mean zilch. You need to calculate that for yourself based on your/parent contributions, scholarships, etc. If you're 100% loans this school will set you back $210k tuition + $60k COL (+ interest) which is GOOD for a DO school. This is easy to pay off in any specialty.


You will see in this previous post that this school had a COMLEX pass rate in the 50s and 60s. Obviously this has improved in addition to their MCAT jumping from a 22 avg in 2011 (496 now) University of Pikeville Kentucky College of Osteopathic Medicine - Wikipedia

KYCOM Comlex Level 1, and 2 first time pass rate?

I tried looking on their website, but they only offer their level 3 pass rate, which concerns me. Are their first time pass rates for level 1 and 2 low so they don't post it? If you happen to know the numbers, please let me know. :)

forums.studentdoctor.net

Yeah I can see why with those comlex level 2 pass rates, it amazing me that this school wasn't put on probation...

Holy moly! Did I just see multiple years in the 50's and 60's for Step 2 CE? COCA really is a joke. They only had 70ish students, how in the world can they not get them to pass? I guess their 90% plus level 2 PE makes up for it all tho right ?

4) Again. 10% attrition is not a good look at all. 4-5% would be better and more comfortable. Average COMLEX being ~32%ile and below the national average is also not good. You will see from this recent study that their average COMLEX correlates with barely passing (high risk of failing USMLE). Obviously, as someone with a 510 MCAT you will likely be an outlier and pass USMLE regardless, but you will always be "leading the pack" so to speak and won't have smarter people to learn from (this has been tremendous in my growth)

A Concordance Study of COMLEX-USA and USMLE Scores

ABSTRACTBackground. Under the single GME accreditation system, residency programs receive applicants from MD- and DO-granting medical schools, each of which have their own set of licensing examinations, making concordance studies increasingly relevant. Previous studies comparing Comprehensive...

meridian.allenpress.com

Again, this is not an "MD Vs DO" debate. This is a discussion of where you will be spending the next 4 years, which will decide where you will spend the subsequent 3-6 years (and most residents remain in the place they do residency). Many people get emotional about this discussion because they want to justify their choice to themselves, but they often speak from a place of no experience. I don't consider myself a genius but I do know a thing or two about admissions having done an SMP, and seeing the outcomes associated with that as well as working within admissions at my current school. Some on here may have "tunnel visioned" and rushed into med school, reluctantly matriculating to a school they weren't 100% happy with. This didn't give them a chance to "take a step back" and explore other options or avenues. Again, I've backed up most of my statements whereas others are just saying what they 'feel". Take it as you will.

They may also simply not know any better and might be "drinking the koolaid" so to speak. A few DO schools I interviewed out - when asked about matching derm/ortho by uninformed premeds the faculty would say "Oh absolutely! You can match into anything" but they do not provide details or the reality of hurdles faced as a DO. One DO school (which will remain nameless) the dean essentially gave the cold harsh truth which was that yes its possible but there are many more hurdles to jump through as a DO and will need to outperform the average MD applicant which isn't easy

I suggest you ask this question on Reddit and elsewhere (get unbiased opinions). Many of your friends will be too nice to tell you to turn down an acceptance to med school (most are uninformed). Reach out to your local schools (boonshoft, OSU, Toledo) or students from there (find them via social media or contact the school). Many will be happy to tell you your chances and discuss your application (My state school was more than willing).

You do not want to make the wrong decision (whatever you decide) and then come back here in 3 years saying "I got sent to a different state 6 hours away for rotations and I hate it" or "The school does not have a X-specialty department and I can't get advising on X-specialty"

 

[stinkycheeseperson]

Not trying to nitpick, but I believe typical attrition rates for med schools would be 2 to 5%. Just my experience. Half are usually due to people deciding they don't want to do medicine and half for academics.

Fair, but still not diploma mills or even top 4 carrib concerning.

 

[homunculusus]

Fair, but still not diploma mills or even top 4 carrib concerning.

SGU loses about 40% of their students prior to MS2 from what I can calculate. 30% SOAP of the 1000 that match (which is higher than DO schools but not surprising considering they avg 498/3.2 IIRC) and 80% end up in primary care. Would definitely pick a DO school over Caribb - but that's not the discussion here. You could also say that LMU is similar in that attrition is closer to 20% when you calculate matriculants vs matched

Caribb students still have to pass USMLE. About 60% of overall DOs take USMLE (and avg slightly higher than Caribb students). At some schools only about 1/3 take it and others nearly 3/4 take it - some are advised to only take COMLEX because they're at risk of failing USMLE. Again - not a surprise considering they tend to skew towards high 490s and low 500s