Take DO acceptance or reapply MD

[deleted688186]

I deleted them because the conversation became distracted from your original question.

FWIW I was "complete" in mid October at my current school and half of my class was accepted after February (however, for the vast majority of MD the earlier the better and most fill up by January)

For DO schools I've heard of interviews going late into the summer.

The decision is ultimately yours. I will summarize the points I previously made. I included evidence for all of my statements and not just conjecture or "feelings" like many other opposing viewpoints here.

1) This is a primary care focused school and if you're okay with that then go for it. Many people don't have exposure to other specialties and are only familiar with PC prior to med school - so if you "fall in love" with a different specialty it is harder to pursue coming from a school that does not have even a department of internal medicine.

2) This school has 10% attrition and 1% of students in "competitive" fields like derm/ortho/ENT/uro, and <4% in "semi-competitive" like anesthesiology/radiology. The vast majority of IM matches are community hospitals so chances of lucrative subspecialties (GI/cardio) are low - if you're interested in that.

We all know/agree that succeeding in med school falls 80% on the individual. Schools can either help or hurt in the remaining 20%. Mandatory/irrelevant courses during board studying is not conductive, and mandating using specific QBanks (Kaplan, Comquest, etc) can hurt. My school is essentially self study since it's P/F. So we mostly focus on Anking/UFAPS (and get great early clinical experiences through our school) + access to UWorld and other resources. We are not bogged down by exams created by PhD with big egos that test irrelevant minutiae (irrelevant for boards and for clinical practice). You will also be dedicating 4-6 hours/week to OMM which you could instead use for studying or relaxing.

KYCOM: Residency Placements | UPIKE
Boonshoft: Match Results | Boonshoft School of Medicine | Wright State University
Toledo: Match Day Results: 2021
OSU: Match Results | Ohio State College of Medicine

I linked match lists at school you have a great chance at matriculating into. Do with it as you will. Before others attack me - we know that match lists are not the end-all be-all but it does say something when it skews one way or another. There's a reason a thread exist in the DO forum titled "IM invites" because everyone and their grandma wants to match academic IM for many reasons (better education, better cities, access to fellowships such as GI/Cards).


3) School reported average debts mean zilch. You need to calculate that for yourself based on your/parent contributions, scholarships, etc. If you're 100% loans this school will set you back $210k tuition + $60k COL (+ interest) which is GOOD for a DO school. This is easy to pay off in any specialty.


You will see in this previous post that this school had a COMLEX pass rate in the 50s and 60s. Obviously this has improved in addition to their MCAT jumping from a 22 avg in 2011 (496 now) University of Pikeville Kentucky College of Osteopathic Medicine - Wikipedia

KYCOM Comlex Level 1, and 2 first time pass rate?

I tried looking on their website, but they only offer their level 3 pass rate, which concerns me. Are their first time pass rates for level 1 and 2 low so they don't post it? If you happen to know the numbers, please let me know. :)

forums.studentdoctor.net

4) Again. 10% attrition is not a good look at all. 4-5% would be better and more comfortable. Average COMLEX being ~32%ile and below the national average is also not good. You will see from this recent study that their average COMLEX correlates with barely passing (high risk of failing USMLE). Obviously, as someone with a 510 MCAT you will likely be an outlier and pass USMLE regardless, but you will always be "leading the pack" so to speak and won't have smarter people to learn from (this has been tremendous in my growth)

A Concordance Study of COMLEX-USA and USMLE Scores

ABSTRACTBackground. Under the single GME accreditation system, residency programs receive applicants from MD- and DO-granting medical schools, each of which have their own set of licensing examinations, making concordance studies increasingly relevant. Previous studies comparing Comprehensive...

meridian.allenpress.com

View attachment 351142


Again, this is not an "MD Vs DO" debate. This is a discussion of where you will be spending the next 4 years, which will decide where you will spend the subsequent 3-6 years (and most residents remain in the place they do residency). Many people get emotional about this discussion because they want to justify their choice to themselves, but they often speak from a place of no experience. I don't consider myself a genius but I do know a thing or two about admissions having done an SMP, and seeing the outcomes associated with that as well as working within admissions at my current school. Some on here may have "tunnel visioned" and rushed into med school, reluctantly matriculating to a school they weren't 100% happy with. This didn't give them a chance to "take a step back" and explore other options or avenues. Again, I've backed up most of my statements whereas others are just saying what they 'feel". Take it as you will.

They may also simply not know any better and might be "drinking the koolaid" so to speak. A few DO schools I interviewed out - when asked about matching derm/ortho by uninformed premeds the faculty would say "Oh absolutely! You can match into anything" but they do not provide details or the reality of hurdles faced as a DO. One DO school (which will remain nameless) the dean essentially gave the cold harsh truth which was that yes its possible but there are many more hurdles to jump through as a DO and will need to outperform the average MD applicant which isn't easy

I suggest you ask this question on Reddit and elsewhere (get unbiased opinions). Many of your friends will be too nice to tell you to turn down an acceptance to med school (most are uninformed). Reach out to your local schools (boonshoft, OSU, Toledo) or students from there (find them via social media or contact the school). Many will be happy to tell you your chances and discuss your application (My state school was more than willing).

You do not want to make the wrong decision (whatever you decide) and then come back here in 3 years saying "I got sent to a different state 6 hours away for rotations and I hate it" or "The school does not have a X-specialty department and I can't get advising on X-specialty"

Will all DO schools blacklist me if I don't accept my invitation to KYCOM or VCOM, or just those schools?

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[chilly_md]

I think I am leaning towards a full reapplication.. but will all DO schools blacklist me if I don't accept my invitation to KYCOM or VCOM, or just those schools?

Do not expect an interview from schools you declined. Some DO schools ask in their secondaries if you had applied before and where you interviewed. They may ask you to then explain or it could come up in an interview. It may not be a problem either. As for deposit guidelines, I am not sure how it works in practice but it seems AACOMAS reports names of students who are holding a seat to other schools:

AACOMAS Traffic Guidelines

Guidelines for prospective osteopathic medical students to successfully complete their applications to medical school.

www.aacom.org

I assume you are still waiting to hear back from LECOM-Elmira and CCOM-Illinois.

 

[deleted688186]

Do not expect an interview from schools you declined. Some DO schools ask in their secondaries if you had applied before and where you interviewed. They may ask you to then explain or it could come up in an interview. It may not be a problem either. As for deposit guidelines, I am not sure how it works in practice but it seems AACOMAS reports names of students who are holding a seat to other schools:

AACOMAS Traffic Guidelines

Guidelines for prospective osteopathic medical students to successfully complete their applications to medical school.

www.aacom.org

I assume you are still waiting to hear back from LECOM-Elmira and CCOM-Illinois.

Thank you for that information. I need to decide if I should place a deposit on KYCOM or VCOM very soon. I reckon that placing the deposit would increase the number of eye brows raised?

I am supposed to interview with LECOM-Elmira this week and CCOM-Illinois near the end of the month.

 

[Goro]

Will all DO schools blacklist me if I don't accept my invitation to KYCOM or VCOM, or just those schools?

Just those schools.

 

[deleted688186]

Just those schools.

Do you think it's worth scratching my applications this cycle and comprehensively reapplying for 2022-2023?

 

[hike22]

Just those schools.

Say you place a deposit in one of those DO schools, but end up withdrawing before orientation/first week, and forgoing that deposit. At this point, would all DO schools blacklist you if you tried to apply next year?

 

[Goro]

Say you place a deposit in one of those DO schools, but end up withdrawing before orientation/first week, and forgoing that deposit. At this point, would all DO schools blacklist you if you tried to apply next year?

No, med schools do not communicate with each other.

A handful will ask if you've been accepted. Just tell the truth.

 

[Goro]

Do you think it's worth scratching my applications this cycle and comprehensively reapplying for 2022-2023?

You may have some deficits in your app that need fixing first

 

[stinkycheeseperson]

yah it's too late for this year really. unless you did something amazing this past year. so you're looking at sitting out 2022-2023 (get better) and 2023-2024 (app year).

 

[homunculusus]

yah it's too late for this year really. unless you did something amazing this past year. so you're looking at sitting out 2022-2023 (get better) and 2023-2024 (app year).

OP's app does not need to get "better". Please do not fear monger. OP has sufficient clinical experience and community volunteering. Stats are strong for Ohio schools. Myself, and many others at my current school were complete later in the cycle (October) and nearly half my class was accepted after February (as many drop or choose more prestigious schools). Heck, even toledo didn't BEGIN interviewing until like march in the previous cycle (yes it was an anomaly and a weird app cycle). Again, if OP had a 510/3.5 from California or NY I would have told them to take ANY DO acceptance and be grateful. However, OP Is VERY competitive for Boonshoft, Neomed, Toledo, OSU (the first two are 506-507 avg and many students there are even in the high 490s).

The people I know who got into "bad schools" all had cookie cutter apps, <3.3, <496-501 and <150 hrs, no other relevant experience. OP is leagues ahead

 

[hike22]

OP's app does not need to get "better". Please do not fear monger. OP has sufficient clinical experience and community volunteering. Stats are strong for Ohio schools. Myself, and many others at my current school were complete later in the cycle (October) and nearly half my class was accepted after February (as many drop or choose more prestigious schools). Heck, even toledo didn't BEGIN interviewing until like march in the previous cycle (yes it was an anomaly and a weird app cycle). Again, if OP had a 510/3.5 from California or NY I would have told them to take ANY DO acceptance and be grateful. However, OP Is VERY competitive for Boonshoft, Neomed, Toledo, OSU (the first two are 506-507 avg and many students there are even in the high 490s).

The people I know who got into "bad schools" all had cookie cutter apps, <3.3, <496-501 and <150 hrs, no other relevant experience. OP is leagues ahead

Curious, would you have said the same if the applicant was from Texas with the same scores (but hasn't applied to TMDSAS schools)?

 

[chilly_md]

Curious, would you have said the same if the applicant was from Texas with the same scores (but hasn't applied to TMDSAS schools)?

No, GPA is lower than what Texas MD usually prefers. Apply to Texas DO schools as well to be safer.

 

[chilly_md]

I do not have MSAR, so cannot see the more detailed stat breakdown and medians for the Ohio schools. However, Neomed reports an average MCAT of 510 and GPA of 3.68. For Toledo, it is the same. The average science GPA is 3.58. If you have an upward trend, that will help a lot.

I do not think OP has much of a chance for Ohio State, let alone very competitive. The 3 in-state schools are the best chances along with Ohio Heritage being a good option, but there is no guarantee at the MD options. Wright State still rejects many in-state applicants. You could apply to some OOS schools as well such as Albany and VCU, but that is up to you to decide if this is worth the gamble. Chances are pretty high for Heritage or a similar DO school.

 

[homunculusus]

@chilly_md lots of schools like to post their "accepted" stats on their website. One DO school I interviewed at shared a GPA/MCAT that was 0.25 and 3 points higher than what they matriculate. I was told their actual stats when I reached out to an advisor there. On MSAR you can sort by matriculants instead of just accepted (which tends to skew the stats up)

 

[chilly_md]

@chilly_md lots of schools like to post their "accepted" stats on their website. One DO school I interviewed at shared a GPA/MCAT that was 0.25 and 3 points higher than what they matriculate. I was told their actual stats when I reached out to an advisor there. On MSAR you can sort by matriculants instead of just accepted (which tends to skew the stats up)

Yes, as I disclosed, I don’t have MSAR and can’t list the more detailed breakdown. The class profile is probably close to what the MSAR has. Many schools have had increased median stats from just a few years ago as more students apply and compete for seats.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

OP's app does not need to get "better". Please do not fear monger. OP has sufficient clinical experience and community volunteering. Stats are strong for Ohio schools. Myself, and many others at my current school were complete later in the cycle (October) and nearly half my class was accepted after February (as many drop or choose more prestigious schools). Heck, even toledo didn't BEGIN interviewing until like march in the previous cycle (yes it was an anomaly and a weird app cycle). Again, if OP had a 510/3.5 from California or NY I would have told them to take ANY DO acceptance and be grateful. However, OP Is VERY competitive for Boonshoft, Neomed, Toledo, OSU (the first two are 506-507 avg and many students there are even in the high 490s).

The people I know who got into "bad schools" all had cookie cutter apps, <3.3, <496-501 and <150 hrs, no other relevant experience. OP is leagues ahead

When did you apply? I applied a few years ago and this cycle. Things have definitely become tougher. I’m not saying Op wouldn’t get in, but it is certainly not a sure thing.

 

[deleted688186]

When did you apply? I applied a few years ago and this cycle. Things have definitely become tougher. I’m not saying Op wouldn’t get in, but it is certainly not a sure thing.

I am hoping that my ECs would help me. I will have 300 hours of community service by June, and if I project them it could be close to 700. I also have some great leadership and work experience, as well as a year of research.

I am still concerned though about the seemingly accelerating level of competitiveness in medical school applications, regardless of MD/DO. There are no guarantees going into the application cycle again.

 

[burrito-consumer]

Take your acceptance and don't look back. In 10 years you'll be a physician and this moment will pop into your mind and you'll say "thank God I didn't throw it all away"

 

[homunculusus]

Take your acceptance and don't look back. In 10 years you'll be a physician and this moment will pop into your mind and you'll say "thank God I didn't throw it all away"

Na. Third year he'd say "these are considered rotations?", 4th year "what *** state did they send me to now?", match day "**** I matched into my backup specialty and fell way down my rank list" and 10 years from now "If only I delayed one more year... would have transformed the next FORTY years of my life"

For example, in the past month I've spoken directly with residency directors in derm, IM (academic), psych, anesthesia, ENT, etc. My school constantly hosts such events where we get to network and many of these people are alumni. People take care of their own - what they're more familiar with - just one more benefit of going to a "better" school

 

[homunculusus]

When did you apply? I applied a few years ago and this cycle. Things have definitely become tougher. I’m not saying Op wouldn’t get in, but it is certainly not a sure thing.

I am involved in admissions at my school and I interview applicants and I'm privy to their files. I also keep in touch with my volunteering gig (250+ volunteers at a large hospital) and I've seen what type of applicants get into what school

 

[homunculusus]

@resetti513

Intimidating decision (also... MD vs DO)

***Please do not quote!*** Hello all. I am very grateful to have received two acceptances to strong schools. I'm going to withhold the school names because CoA info may give some potentially identifying information and I'm neurotic. However, if it helps, I'm happy to DM them to you. They're...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Obviously this is different since that person has an MD A in hand already - but you can see how even $260k+ price difference isn't worth going DO. That is literally a BLIP in a 30+ year career. Big numbers are often scary to premeds (price, stats, etc) so most try to play it safe. There is a reason so many people (usually IMG) will literally bribe residencies $400k+ (look it up, it happens all the time) - because securing a residency literally puts you in the top 1% in the world. Now, securing a "good" residency (preferred specialty and/or location) is an even bigger privilege and you want to leave every door open for yourself.

You have literally 100% chance of getting a BETTER DO acceptance next cycle, and a great chance at MD - you literally lose nothing reapplying but gain everything

I'm not any smarter than my DO friends. You could even say they're smarter than me. However, I will have an easier time applying to more competitive specialties. Two of my friends from KY auditioned at hospitals that are home to another DO school - and crushed it with glowing evals. When match day came they did not match there (relatively non-competitive specialties) and they were passed on in favor of students with lower stats from the "home" DO school. This is just one of many advantages to having a home program and/or perceived prestige

Humans are lazy and creatures of habits and patterns. I can be a total doofus but when a PD sees my app they'll say "Oh! wow, homunculusus is from X MD school, they must be great clinically" but if they see an app from a school they're unfamiliar with "Oh hmm....." and even if that student auditions there - there is no guarantee they rank them highly even if they crush the audition because they might always favor home students.

 

[Bwesternn]

Na. Third year he'd say "these are considered rotations?", 4th year "what *** state did they send me to now?", match day "**** I matched into my backup specialty and fell way down my rank list" and 10 years from now "If only I delayed one more year... would have transformed the next FORTY years of my life"

For example, in the past month I've spoken directly with residency directors in derm, IM (academic), psych, anesthesia, ENT, etc. My school constantly hosts such events where we get to network and many of these people are alumni. People take care of their own - what they're more familiar with - just one more benefit of going to a "better" school

Wouldn't you also consider this fear-mongering...? The bottom line is that he would be giving up a sure thing to gamble on something that is yet unsure.

 

[jhmmd]

Wouldn't you also consider this fear-mongering...? The bottom line is that he would be giving up a sure thing to gamble on something that is yet unsure.

There's one born every minute

 

[Med Ed]

The bottom line is that he would be giving up a sure thing to gamble on something that is yet unsure.

True. But one shouldn't fixate on the odds and forget about the stakes.

 

[homunculusus]

Wouldn't you also consider this fear-mongering...? The bottom line is that he would be giving up a sure thing to gamble on something that is yet unsure.

The fact is that OP didn't shoot all of his shots. Didn't even apply to ALL DO schools for what its worth. From my experience, people (especially with low stats) who barely scraped into any school feel exhausted and defeated are the ones telling OP to "take the acceptance" whereas the ones who have had more experience with admissions (experienced a post-bacc, SMP, spoken to many MD/DO Adcoms, and work w/admissions) will have a more nuanced and statistically based approach

Again, the US is like 50 diff countries and if you're from a competitive state (texas, cali, ny, etc) then you might feel different due to your experience with med admissions. Since all of you love anecdotes and seem to disregard statistics, my friend with a 3.1, 3.45 SMP and 506 MCAT (ORM) scored an interview and A to Toledo last cycle as an OOS applicant with 0 ties (several states away)

 

[chilly_md]

N=1

If your OOS friend at Toledo actually exists.

Chances very good at Ohio Heritage and could get an A somewhere like DMU and PCOM. Not virtually 100% though.

 

[Browns99]

Wouldn't you also consider this fear-mongering...? The bottom line is that he would be giving up a sure thing to gamble on something that is yet unsure.

So, he or she should accept the spot, not care about the school's rep, faculty, etc., go against what they may actually want? Sometimes a gamble is worth it as opposed to a life of regret!

As I said in my prior post, the decision is not as simple as people want to make it out to be and suggest that he should take the "A" and run, nope, more goes into it then that.

At the end of the day, the OP must weigh everything out and then make a decision. If it is to accept the DO spot, then so be it, take it, own it and give it your best. If the decision is to turn it down, wait on others, reapply, etc., own it and don't 2nd guess yourself.

 

[MDMechEngr]

Na. Third year he'd say "these are considered rotations?", 4th year "what *** state did they send me to now?", match day "**** I matched into my backup specialty and fell way down my rank list" and 10 years from now "If only I delayed one more year... would have transformed the next FORTY years of my life"

For example, in the past month I've spoken directly with residency directors in derm, IM (academic), psych, anesthesia, ENT, etc. My school constantly hosts such events where we get to network and many of these people are alumni. People take care of their own - what they're more familiar with - just one more benefit of going to a "better" school

But OP will get to treat the whole person: mind body and espiritusante...Amen.

 

[homunculusus]

N=1

If your OOS friend at Toledo actually exists.

Chances very good at Ohio Heritage and could get an A somewhere like DMU and PCOM. Not virtually 100% though.

My friend chose my school. IS tuition is half the price of OOS toledo

 

[chilly_md]

I don’t think anybody else who has stats like your friend should count on an OOS acceptance with 0 ties. Lot of higher stat people don’t get an OOS acceptance to schools like Toledo.

Maybe your friend was IS for a lesser populated state. Like New Mexico or the Dakotas. Or the states known for cheaper tuition like Texas or Florida. Good for both of you that you got a great opportunity at a school that supports you. There are many schools, both MD and DO, that do not have such a supportive and generous environment filled with scholarships abound, extensive networking events where you talk with several residency directors, and still take in students with lower stats. An MD school opens doors, has more research opportunities and better rotations. I don’t think expecting it to be paradise though is realistic.

OP, if you like the school and it’s location and can talk to more current students about it who seem to vouch for it, sounds like a worthwhile place to attend. If you hear more bad things about it and are willing to invest time and money for reapplication if the other schools don’t work out, go ahead and withdraw from KYCOM. Let us know if the students share concerning things as that can be useful for future applicants.

 

[homunculusus]

@chilly_md again - I did not provide the example of my friend to prove a point. I brought it up because you guys all love anecdotes and disregard statistics.

 

[chilly_md]

“I can tell you right now that M1s at my school can run circles around most OMS3s clinically speaking and know more basic AND clinical science right before dedicated (M2).”

I guess we’ll just have to take your word for it. You sure have a thing against DO though it seems. And a poor use of numbers when you showed those, but it was mostly anecdotes that you assumed we preferred.

​

 

[Medscigirl]

Na. Third year he'd say "these are considered rotations?", 4th year "what *** state did they send me to now?", match day "**** I matched into my backup specialty and fell way down my rank list" and 10 years from now "If only I delayed one more year... would have transformed the next FORTY years of my life"

For example, in the past month I've spoken directly with residency directors in derm, IM (academic), psych, anesthesia, ENT, etc. My school constantly hosts such events where we get to network and many of these people are alumni. People take care of their own - what they're more familiar with - just one more benefit of going to a "better" school

You really have no idea how this works do you haha. It’s honestly laughable.
Nothing to lose: how about delaying a year and not being accepted next year, another year of growing student debt, anxiety, and worrying about getting into school
4th year: Well I went to every place I wanted to. That’s the beauty of 4th year, you go wherever you want to rotate or audition at.
Residency Fairs and Conferences: We have very well connected staff and physicians in many disciplines who love to help students and yes, it can be a game of who you know and we help you find those people. Don’t let this person fool you, you can make connections with programs just fine. Its about the work you put in to making those connections and its not hard.
Match Day: I will be marching in 2 weeks and I am certain it will be at my 1st or 2nd choice and no its not in KY. Also, I dont have a back up because I dont need one. My programs have a nice mix of MD and DO students and each place has told me how competitive I am. I literally received a phone call just the other day from a program just to tell me they are ranking me highly and they hope to see me there in July.
Opportunities: I am dually published in one research project (presented at 2 conferences) and about to published in my 2nd project, was named Student Osteopathic Physician of the Year and given a $5,000 scholarship by a notational organization, won numerous awards for community service, was VP of 2 student clubs with national ties, completed a TON of service hours and still managed to do fine on boards and have a good GPA.
The opportunities at KYCOM are great and for someone who doesn’t even go to this school, you have no idea and it’s hilarious that you are trying to knock a program with so much support and love for their students. They want the students to succeed…if the students succeed, the school succeeds so they do all they can to help students. I fell in love with the school and the faculty who care a great deal and it was definitely the best decision for me and for many of my classmates. I will have an amazing career doing what I love to do.
To the OP: If a title and prestige are what matter most to you, then sure, drop off the list. We are a family and treat each other as such. We do not badmouth our MD counterparts like this person seems to like to do, and we don‘t tolerate it. At the end of the day we are here to better the lives of our patients and to learn how to be the best physicians we can be. There are plenty more people who would love to take the acceptance and be in your shoes a year earlier than they thought. I wish you the best in whatever you decide. You have my number if you ever have any questions regardless of what you decide.

 

[AvsPearTree]

Hopefully, homunculusus is just a troll; if not, they will sadly be a "proud" future perpetrator of the continued stigma directed needlessly towards DOs. Of course, everyone here wants to be/will be/is a doctor, and you would think that means we would all be on the same team, but sadly you'll never get some people to leave their ego at the door. They have some weird personal problems with DOs based on their emotional bias. This means you should take everything they say with a grain of salt.

Resetti513, you need to sit yourself down and figure out what your goals are in medicine. After that, you need to fairly assess if KYCOM can help you achieve those goals. If they can, go there; if you genuinely believe you won't be able to be the type of doctor you want to be by going there, then take the risk and reapply next year. I believe you will easily be able to achieve your goals at KYCOM.

Another opinion; look at certain people in this thread and ask yourself, would I even want to go to their program if these are the kind of people I will have to deal with consistently? Do I want to go to a school where they treat each other like a family or one that is filled with gunners vying only for the most prestigious specialties, where primary care doctors are seen as lesser beings... and DOs? don't get them started! (obviously, I'm being jokingly extreme and just letting homunculusus be the complete representation for whatever "amazing" school they attend).

 

[Doctoscope]

If I’ve learned anything as a non-trad premed, it’s that this field is filled with so many insecure, neurotic, prestige-driven people compared to almost any other field.

 

[deleted688186]

Just to update everyone- I went and visited Pikeville late last week, as the deadline for securing my seat was fast approaching. It is a very remote location, but the town is very nicely kept and people are super nice. The countryside is absolutely beautiful there. I was able to meet a handful of first-year medical students, and they were overwhelmingly positive and encouraging about their experiences thus far. They mentioned that the curriculum is going system-based starting in 2022, which is good to hear. They also said the faculty and their fellow students are incredibly supportive- they felt confident that they weren't pigeon-holed into going into primary care (although most of them were interested in FM and IM to begin with). One student claimed that their classmate was accepted to the allopathic programs in KY, yet elected to attend KYCOM because of the small class sizes and collaborative environment.

I decided to place a deposit and secure a seat in the class of 2026. I am still hoping to hear from other schools but I got the sense I would be taken care of at KYCOM. I am still set to interview for LECOM, CCOM, and hope to hear back of OUHCOM, DMU, and Rowan. I am also scheduled to meet with my former premed advisor at my alma mater to see what she thinks about my situation. If she thinks I have a strong chance of acceptance in the MD cycle, I might still reapply.

 

[Doctoscope]

Just to update everyone- I went and visited Pikeville late last week, as the deadline for securing my seat was fast approaching. It is a very remote location, but the town is very nicely kept and people are super nice. The countryside is absolutely beautiful there. I was able to meet a handful of first-year medical students, and they were overwhelmingly positive and encouraging about their experiences thus far. They mentioned that the curriculum is going system-based starting in 2022, which is good to hear. They also said the faculty and their fellow students are incredibly supportive- they felt confident that they weren't pigeon-holed into going into primary care (although most of them were interested in FM and IM to begin with). One student claimed that their classmate was accepted to the allopathic programs in KY, yet elected to attend KYCOM because of the small class sizes and collaborative environment.

I decided to place a deposit and secure a seat in the class of 2026. I am still hoping to hear from other schools but I got the sense I would be taken care of at KYCOM. I am still set to interview for LECOM, CCOM, and hope to hear back of OUHCOM, DMU, and Rowan. I am also scheduled to meet with my former premed advisor at my alma mater to see what she thinks about my situation. If she thinks I have a strong chance of acceptance in the MD cycle, I might still reapply.

I don't know how it is at your school, but at my school (and many others) speaking to the premed "advisor" actually does more harm than good. They can be extremely uninformed sometimes.

 

[Med Ed]

One student claimed that their classmate was accepted to the allopathic programs in KY, yet elected to attend KYCOM because of the small class sizes and collaborative environment.

Yeah, that didn't happen.

 

[jamaica jan sun princess]

Yeah, that didn't happen.

You'd be surprised. In my grad school cohort, a friend chose a DO school over a fairly well known (in the region) MD school due to the similar feelings.

 

[deleted688186]

I was pretty skeptical of that statement as well, but I don't want to assume people are lying off the bat. 😅

 

[Goro]

You'd be surprised. In my grad school cohort, a friend chose a DO school over a fairly well known (in the region) MD school due to the similar feelings.

Happened at my numerous times

 

[AvsPearTree]

Yeah, that didn't happen.

The DO attending I shadowed discussed how he chose to go to his DO school over his two MD acceptances. So sure maybe its not the norm, but it does occur and there are reasons why it happens.

 

[Med Ed]

You'd be surprised. In my grad school cohort, a friend chose a DO school over a fairly well known (in the region) MD school due to the similar feelings.

Yeah, but did your friend choose Pikeville over Lexington?

 

[jamaica jan sun princess]

Yeah, but did your friend choose Pikeville over Lexington?

VCOM over UAB.

 

[Med Ed]

VCOM over UAB.

A very lucky UAB student is out there somewhere.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Just to update everyone- I went and visited Pikeville late last week, as the deadline for securing my seat was fast approaching. It is a very remote location, but the town is very nicely kept and people are super nice. The countryside is absolutely beautiful there. I was able to meet a handful of first-year medical students, and they were overwhelmingly positive and encouraging about their experiences thus far. They mentioned that the curriculum is going system-based starting in 2022, which is good to hear. They also said the faculty and their fellow students are incredibly supportive- they felt confident that they weren't pigeon-holed into going into primary care (although most of them were interested in FM and IM to begin with). One student claimed that their classmate was accepted to the allopathic programs in KY, yet elected to attend KYCOM because of the small class sizes and collaborative environment.

I decided to place a deposit and secure a seat in the class of 2026. I am still hoping to hear from other schools but I got the sense I would be taken care of at KYCOM. I am still set to interview for LECOM, CCOM, and hope to hear back of OUHCOM, DMU, and Rowan. I am also scheduled to meet with my former premed advisor at my alma mater to see what she thinks about my situation. If she thinks I have a strong chance of acceptance in the MD cycle, I might still reapply.

One of the nice things about asking a community and getting the diverse responses is that we help you see all the different angles (provided we're all not blowing smoke at you). It may be good to get your advisor's perspective as she should have more historical information if she has been a dedicated advisor for a number of years, but you've already done your homework connecting with current students in your second-look visit. You have an idea of the local environment and student support there. So then, what one bit of information do you need to help you make a final decision?

 

[Hyein]

.

 

[Hyein]

.

 

[chilly_md]

why would you not advise these?

That's the bad boy list. They all have concerning things regarding board scores, bad administration, attrition and/or for-profit status.

 

[Goro]

where can I find you 'bad boy' list?

ARCOM: Required mandatory lecture attendance during the COVID pandemic! Lecturers were outside speakers and could have taught via Zoom.
And now they’re on heightened monitoring for accreditation: Accreditation Decisions for Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine - American Osteopathic Association


NOVA: Two of the four last years have declining first-time COMLEX pass rates. The last two years for which we have data are in the low 90s. They still have yet to post data for the 2019-20 cycle, which is fishy. Some 7% of their 2018 grads failed to match, ditto 4% of their Class of 2019. There are also signs of significant delay to graduation in these numbers. That’s still not good for a veteran school. I’d expect > 95% pass rates and match rates closer to 100%. These problems are what you expect from a new school. Something is very wrong there. See: Residency Match Data and COMLEX Level 3 Board Scores | NSU COM

And also:

Thoughts On Nova Post Preclinical Years

I am a current medical student at Nova and after reading comments at a previous thread about the academic failures of my school I thought it would be helpful to attest that everything that has been written in such great detail is still 100% correct and a reality for many of us. From the...

forums.studentdoctor.net

LUCOM: I have a profound distaste for the politics of their parent organization; they’re disingenuous about whether their strict lifestyle rules apply to medical students (they do); and their Faculty make blatant attempts to twist facts to match their theology. In the midst of the COVID19 pandemic, Liberty president Jerry Falwell Jr insisted that the campus stay open! This was in violation of state law
Black Liberty University alums rebuke Jerry Falwell after blackface tweet

And read this, while you’re at it:
Liberty University Poured Millions Into Sports. Now Its Black Athletes Are Leaving.

From the wise gyngyn: Liberty is poorly regarded due to the history of intolerance of their founding fathers. This school's reputation for intolerance puts its grads at a disadvantage at many reputable residency programs.



LMU: the administration of the parent body fired a dean for supporting social justice and racial equality.
Their position is: On August 14th (2020), an Associate Dean of Students emailed new student policy that stated “You are not allowed to be involved in any form of public statement about social justice and racial inequities in medicine in any prominent location on the LMU campus”."
In addition, the complaints about the school are the same year after year, and I believe them


BCOM: COMLEX pass rates are a disaster, even for a new school. In my own school's experience, people who fail the exam will almost always pass the second time around. Yet some 9% of BCOM's second class still couldn't pass on the second try. These are people who are now far less likely to ever become doctors. Their inaugural Class of 2020 has had a 25% attrition rate (160 down to ~120).

Also this: granted Accreditation with Heightened Monitoring. This indicates that fewer than three standards are non-compliant and ongoing monitoring will occur via progress reporting. For schools with this status, accreditation will be granted for four years.
Accreditation decisions for colleges of osteopathic medicine - American Osteopathic Association


ICOM: Not recommended due to the apparent dishonesty they had in setting up their school that poisoned the relations with hospitals in Idaho and/or the Idaho Medical Association. In addition, most of their rotation sites are very far away from the school. This raises the risk that the rotations are not adequately supervised, and preceptors are not fully trained in teaching. And they have the nerve to give you only 48 hours to decide upon submitting a $1500 deposit!


RVU: I find for profit schools to be distasteful to medical education, but this is outright disgusting behavior:

No matter what RVU tells you, don’t apply Caribbean

With all due respect to those attending and applying to RVU, because it has a solid track record academically, I believe it’s unethical for the school to give leads to Caribbean programs. Though St George seems to be one of the better ones, there are still high attrition rates making it a risky...

forums.studentdoctor.net

BTW, brand new DO schools are to be avoided (unless it’s your only accept) until they at least graduate a class. It takes time for faculty to gel and deliver a coherent curriculum; they have limited clinical rotations sites [it takes time to build these!], the degree of oversight of clinical training will be weak; the schools are unlikely to have resources for struggling students or those with mental health needs; lastly their grads will be unknown products to residency program directors.