Take Gen Chem or P Chem?

[Endoxifen]

So, I used my AP grade in Chem to get out of the gen chem labs and lectures. Now, I'm looking at schools and many require that I at least take another year of chem. I took a full year of biochem, which some schools accept, but for others, the distinction is more blurry. So this puts me in the position of choosing between learning new and interesting material, which will limit my school list slightly, or being bored, but fully opening up my list. What does everyone think? If you were in my position, which would you choose?

Edit: Also, will it be a problem for schools that I will be finishing my prerequisites during senior year (after applications)? They will both be done before medical school starts. Thanks!

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[pioneer22]

gen chem. youre familiar with the material, so it won't be too hard the second time around hopefully.
PChem is supposedly miserable, so dont go for that

 

[Pagan FutureDoc]

Schools only worry about you having prereqs before matriculation. So finishing them senior year or in a post bacc after applying won't hurt you at all (provided you get an acceptable grade)

I'd also recommend taking gen Chem, mostly because that will fufill the gen Chem req at all school without having to worry about what schools will accept what

 

[stickgirl390]

Did you take ochem?

 

[Endoxifen]

Did you take ochem?

Yeah, I took O Chem at a university in my city when I was in high school. I took biochem freshman year, so my advisors didn't think it would be an issue. Apparently my advisors were poorly informed.

 

[Endoxifen]

gen chem. youre familiar with the material, so it won't be too hard the second time around hopefully.
PChem is supposedly miserable, so dont go for that

Yeah, I heard that too from people in my school. Then again, they said the same thing about immunology and that was my favorite class... IDK, at least it would be novel.

 

[Lost In Transcription]

Gen chem is definitely required for pchem. And most likely biochem unless your class is horrid.

Gen chem!

 

[Endoxifen]

Gen chem is definitely required for pchem. And most likely biochem unless your class is horrid.

Gen chem!

I've taken gen chem (in a way), through AP. It hasn't caused me any problems. Still, I think you're probably right. Thanks for your help.

 

[aldol16]

Gen chem is definitely required for pchem. And most likely biochem unless your class is horrid.

OP has fulfilled the pre-req through AP credit so he/she is eligible to take PChem.

OP, is there no other option than gen chem or PChem? Most schools offer more advanced inorganic chem, catalysis, analytical chem, chemical biology, etc.

 

[Lucca]

I enjoyed p Chem a lot but it is a lot more challenging than gen Chem. Gen Chem for the easy A is my pre med advice. As a student / person I would suggest P Chem.

 

[Endoxifen]

OP has fulfilled the pre-req through AP credit so he/she is eligible to take PChem.

OP, is there no other option than gen chem or PChem? Most schools offer more advanced inorganic chem, catalysis, analytical chem, chemical biology, etc.

There are other options, but those seem like the most likely to fulfill requirements. Some schools ask for P chem, so that's why it is the other option.

 

[aldol16]

There are other options, but those seem like the most likely to fulfill requirements. Some schools ask for P chem, so that's why it is the other option.

Which schools ask for PChem? I don't know of any MD schools that specifically ask for PChem. It would be a useless pre-req for med school because I guarantee you that knowing the de Broglie wavelength of your patients isn't going to save them.

 

[Endoxifen]

Which schools ask for PChem? I don't know of any MD schools that specifically ask for PChem. It would be a useless pre-req for med school because I guarantee you that knowing the de Broglie wavelength of your patients isn't going to save them.

Columbia... I really want to apply there

 

[Lucca]

Columbia... I really want to apply there

from Columbia P&S website....
"

• At least three full academic years at an accredited college in the U.S. or Canada
• One year of English
• One year of Biology with labs
• One year of Physics with labs
• Two years of Chemistry, one of which must be Organic Chemistry, both with labs

Applicants may apply if they lack one or two of the above prerequisites, but completion of these courses is a requirement for enrollment. Applications from students in all majors are considered. If your undergraduate college has awarded you Advanced Placement (AP) credit in Chemistry, Physics or Biology we strongly suggest you take an additional year at the collegiate level. For students who have received AP credit, we recommend that you take both Physical Chemistry and courses in Genetics and Developmental Biology (Embryology)."

Those are recommendations, not requirements.....

Tagging @WedgeDawg because I feel he might have something to say on the matter

 

[Doctor-S]

FWIW: When I was an undergrad, I enrolled in p-chem as an "elective" course because I thought it would be fun.

Although my classmates and I felt okay with calculations/formulas ... approximations (yup, you have them), we discovered fairly quickly that one's mathematical competency did not guarantee one's competency in p-chem. Instead, we spent countless hours studying and analyzing different theories/concepts in an effort to thoroughly understand the basis of each theory/concept/calculation/formula, including whether the formula (etc.) was valid or not valid ... you know ... complex problem-solving skills ... bridging the gap between math and its application to chemistry.

In the past, the American Chemical Society sold a car sticker that said something like: "Honk, if you passed P-Chem!"

Yup, it's all that, and more. So, if you enjoy challenging classes, p-chem will probably provide you with a decent challenge.

 

[Endoxifen]

FWIW: When I was an undergrad, I enrolled in p-chem as an "elective" course because I thought it would be fun.

Although my classmates and I felt okay with calculations/formulas ... approximations (yup, you have them), we discovered fairly quickly that one's mathematical competency did not guarantee one's competency in p-chem. Instead, we spent countless hours studying and analyzing different theories/concepts in an effort to thoroughly understand the basis of each theory/concept/calculation/formula, including whether the formula (etc.) was valid or not valid ... you know ... complex problem-solving skills ... bridging the gap between math and its application to chemistry.

In the past, the American Chemical Society sold a car sticker that said something like: "Honk, if you passed P-Chem!"

Yup, it's all that, and more. So, if you enjoy challenging classes, p-chem will probably provide you with a decent challenge.

What can I say? I'm a sadist!

I've actually been through something like you described before. When I took electricity and magnetism, a different physics professor started teaching the class. When he arrived the first day, he told us that he expected us to be as discerning as his graduate students. It turns out he wasn't exaggerating because the final curve on the class was 35%. The physics department banned him from teaching the class. To survive, I had to go through and derive each equation and prove to myself that each one worked the way they claimed..... it's still one of my favorite classes.

 

[WedgeDawg]

I wouldn't take p chem unless it's a subject you're actually interested in taking. No school is going to look down on you for not taking p chem.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

Don't take P Chem. It's conceptually more difficult than anything you'll see in medical school and the blue haired nitwits in admissions offices won't be impressed that you took it. Take qualitative analysis or some other chem class if you must have more chemistry credits.

You have been victimized by terrible advising. You should have NEVER taken the AP credit for general chemistry and you should have waited to take all of your chemistry at a four year party school. This thread should be required reading for all high school students who aspire to be physicians.

 

[aprilfools]

Barring engineering courses I'm convined PChem is the most difficult course you can possibly take in undergrad. The material is interesting sure, but I went from missing less than 10 points total both semester in Gen Chem to barely scraping together a B+ in a PChem class that was curved to a B/B+. That PChem class wasn't even REALLY calculus based. I also took a grad-level class concurrently called Biomolecules: Molecular Driving Forces which was calculus based, and even though I got an A (you can't not get an A if you genuinely try, show up to all classes and turn everything in), I don't think I've ever understood less in a class ever.

TLDR: Don't take PChem if you don't have to.

 

[JB50]

Do med schools take prereq AP credits?

 

[aldol16]

Barring engineering courses I'm convined PChem is the most difficult course you can possibly take in undergrad. The material is interesting sure, but I went from missing less than 10 points total both semester in Gen Chem to barely scraping together a B+ in a PChem class that was curved to a B/B+. That PChem class wasn't even REALLY calculus based. I also took a grad-level class concurrently called Biomolecules: Molecular Driving Forces which was calculus based, and even though I got an A (you can't not get an A if you genuinely try, show up to all classes and turn everything in), I don't think I've ever understood less in a class ever.

First semester PChem is a watered-down version of quantum mechanics as applicable to small systems. The physics department usually has a more rigorous course (for instance, we don't ask chemistry students in pchem to know or understand laguerre or legendre polynomials or differential equations, etc.). Second semester PChem is just a lot of math thrown at you that describe made-up concepts like entropy which you will never be able to actually tangibly see.

 

[aldol16]

Also, OP, taking the AP credit isn't a bad thing at all if you're genuinely interested in the subject. Most medical schools will accept a year of advanced coursework in a discipline if you have AP credit in that discipline. For instance, for Cornell, you would just take a year of advanced chemistry coursework in the chemistry topics that interest you (http://weill.cornell.edu/education/admissions/app_req.html). You're not restricted to PChem. Even for Columbia, you're not restricted to PChem and I find it really odd that they would strongly recommend it. This smells like doctors/administrators in the admissions offices who have never taken PChem and don't understand PChem at all just arbitrarily picking a course to replace gen chem for AP credit holders.