Taking extra courses as a non-trad

[PhysioMD]

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I'm curious how people who re-take courses or do extra courses before applying to med school go about doing so? If you have a previous degree and want to take extra classes in the evening while working - do you just contact your local university and sign up for courses? my local university has stated you need to be part of a program to take classes, even if I've previously graduated from the program and just want to re-do courses.

also would community college level courses be seen favourably? I only ask because they seem to have more options (e.g. night class) for non-trad students who are working.

FYI I'm out of school for some time but will need to take some courses to show that I am still able to succeed academically.

 

[DrMikeP]

I'm curious how people who re-take courses or do extra courses before applying to med school go about doing so? If you have a previous degree and want to take extra classes in the evening while working - do you just contact your local university and sign up for courses? my local university has stated you need to be part of a program to take classes, even if I've previously graduated from the program and just want to re-do courses.

also would community college level courses be seen favourably? I only ask because they seem to have more options (e.g. night class) for non-trad students who are working.

FYI I'm out of school for some time but will need to take some courses to show that I am still able to succeed academically.

CC is OK for most DO programs but is frowned on or not accepted for many MD programs. Some CCs don't offer biochem, which I would strongly recommend now esp for the MCAT. CCs are better for night classes, but if the program you want doesn't accept them doesn't help. Look up schools you'd like and see what they want specifically.

There are advantages to enrolling as a second degree seeking student, such as earlier registration and sometimes better advisors. You don't necessarily have to finish the degree, just the classes. Some people go for a master's degree or such, but you prob don't need to.

Read some of my past posts and this gets discusses a lot in the threads I post on.

Best of luck

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[GreenDuck12]

OP, be careful of this as it is not exactly accurate. According to the AAMC MSAR there are a handful of MD schools that ask for an explanation for CC classes or state a preference for completing pre-reqs at a 4 year college or university. There is a prevalent opinion that ADCOMs view CC classes are less rigorous than their 4 year counterparts, but it is not clear how accurate this perception is or how big of an impact it has on an admissions decision. I would get a copy of the MSAR and look for yourself at the schools you are interested in applying about how they view CC classes.

CC is OK for most DO programs but is frowned on or not accepted for many MD programs. Some CCs don't offer biochem, which I would strongly recommend now esp for the MCAT. CCs are better for night classes, but if the program you want doesn't accept them doesn't help. Look up schools you'd like and see what they want specifically.

There are advantages to enrolling as a second degree seeking student, such as earlier registration and sometimes better advisors. You don't necessarily have to finish the degree, just the classes. Some people go for a master's degree or such, but you prob don't need to.

Read some of my past posts and this gets discusses a lot in the threads I post on.

Best of luck

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[DrMikeP]

OP, be careful of this as it is not exactly accurate. According to the AAMC MSAR there are a handful of MD schools that ask for an explanation for CC classes or state a preference for completing pre-reqs at a 4 year college or university. There is a prevalent opinion that ADCOMs view CC classes are less rigorous than their 4 year counterparts, but it is not clear how accurate this perception is or how big of an impact it has on an admissions decision. I would get a copy of the MSAR and look for yourself at the schools you are interested in applying about how they view CC classes.

I've been personally told by a number of adcoms at MD schools in FL and TN they will not accept applicants with cc req science courses. As with everything it is all school dependent so one should always check with any individual school. There are also those who get in as exceptions, like when someone gets in with a 495 to an MD program or get a residency after going to the Caribbean but aiming to be an exception is foolish at best.

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[GreenDuck12]

Given the economic downturn in 2008/09 and the rising cost of higher education, it is much more common than it once was for applicants to have CC credit. Taking CC classes as an undergrad can be seen as avoiding ones own 4 year institution. Taking post-bac CC classes is an entirely different scenario as non-trads tend to have other obligations. Your insinuation that getting into MD with CC classes is the "exception" to the rule is misguided. You may want to spend some time perusing the success stories from any number of current and former medical students. But I digress.

I've been personally told by a number of adcoms at MD schools in FL and TN they will not accept applicants with cc req science courses. As with everything it is all school dependent so one should always check with any individual school. There are also those who get in as exceptions, like when someone gets in with a 495 to an MD program or get a residency after going to the Caribbean but aiming to be an exception is foolish at best.

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[DrMikeP]

Given the economic downturn in 2008/09 and the rising cost of higher education, it is much more common than it once was for applicants to have CC credit. Taking CC classes as an undergrad can be seen as avoiding ones own 4 year institution. Taking post-bac CC classes is an entirely different scenario as non-trads tend to have other obligations. Your insinuation that getting into MD with CC classes is the "exception" to the rule is misguided. You may want to spend some time perusing the success stories from any number of current and former medical students. But I digress.

The goal of sdn is helping someone be the most competitive possible. Ultimately it doesn't matter how many get into what if the schools you are applying to don't accept you because of xyz.

60% don't get in at all and a chunk of the 40% that get in are DO and the other chunk that get into MD are those near textbook perfect applicants. So that leaves maybe 5-10% of total applicants that are not hitting every mark for MD that get in, including CC. Shooting for being in the 5-10% when you can increase your chances and be on par with 30% of the admitted out of the overall applicants is just good sense if possible.

I'm in so doesn't matter to me, but one should know if a choice has the potential to hurt them in the process. Especially, a nontrad who potentially has odds leaning against him to begin with.


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[GreenDuck12]

To make my point, here is an article from the AAMC:

A 2013 AAMC report on diversity showed that in 2012 almost 33 percent of medical school applicants had community college experience—up from 29 percent in 2002. Of this group, 41 percent were accepted to medical school.

In the past, medical school admissions committees might have balked at applicants with community college backgrounds, but attitudes are changing. Now, many admissions faculty see these institutions as a stepping stone.

“We feel that people who use the community college system often have traveled a greater distance—more often they come from disadvantaged backgrounds that require them to use [that] system,” said Mark Henderson, M.D., associate dean for admissions at the University of California, Davis (UC Davis), School of Medicine. “We don’t count it against them in any regard.”


link: https://www.aamc.org/newsroom/repor...munitycollegeprovidespathtomedicalschool.html

The goal of sdn is helping someone be the most competitive possible. Ultimately it doesn't matter how many get into what if the schools you are applying to don't accept you because of xyz.

60% don't get in at all and a chunk of the 40% that get in are DO and the other chunk that get into MD are those near textbook perfect applicants. So that leaves maybe 5-10% of total applicants that are not hitting every mark for MD that get in, including CC. Shooting for being in the 5-10% when you can increase your chances and be on par with 30% of the admitted out of the overall applicants is just good sense if possible.

I'm in so doesn't matter to me, but one should know if a choice has the potential to hurt them in the process. Especially, a nontrad who potentially has odds leaning against him to begin with.


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[DrMikeP]

Perhaps another way to say it, (41%) less than half of the community college applicants (which is only 33% of applicants) got accepted. Also look at where these CC applicants who were accepted attended for their BS/BA degrees and what those degrees were in. It's not like most went back to CC.

It's great that they they are changing but the numbers and the fact that MD schools will still tell you they frown on it means it's an exception and not the rule.

Starting off in CC is also MUCH different than finishing there before applying, which is back to the original point for a non-trad.

Anyway, the choice is the OP's, not ours.

To make my point, here is an article from the AAMC:

A 2013 AAMC report on diversity showed that in 2012 almost 33 percent of medical school applicants had community college experience—up from 29 percent in 2002. Of this group, 41 percent were accepted to medical school.

In the past, medical school admissions committees might have balked at applicants with community college backgrounds, but attitudes are changing. Now, many admissions faculty see these institutions as a stepping stone.

“We feel that people who use the community college system often have traveled a greater distance—more often they come from disadvantaged backgrounds that require them to use [that] system,” said Mark Henderson, M.D., associate dean for admissions at the University of California, Davis (UC Davis), School of Medicine. “We don’t count it against them in any regard.”


link: https://www.aamc.org/newsroom/repor...munitycollegeprovidespathtomedicalschool.html

 

[GreenDuck12]

Your argument falls into the trap of a common logical fallacy (post-hoc ergo propter hoc) where student goes to CC and does not get admitted. Therefore going to CC caused the student get admitted and avoiding CC will cause a student to get admitted. This is an over simplification and perpetuates the stigma that largely exists on SDN regarding CC classes. This also reduces the application process and the factors that are considered to where a student attended school and not GPA, MCAT, and ECs, which we know are heavily considered.

It absolutely is the OP's choice and he or she must do what feels right.

Perhaps another way to say it, (41%) less than half of the community college applicants (which is only 33% of applicants) got accepted. Also look at where these CC applicants who were accepted attended for their BS/BA degrees and what those degrees were in. It's not like most went back to CC.

It's great that they they are changing but the numbers and the fact that MD schools will still tell you they frown on it means it's an exception and not the rule.

Starting off in CC is also MUCH different than finishing there before applying, which is back to the original point for a non-trad.

Anyway, the choice is the OP's, not ours.

 

[Citron]

I'm curious how people who re-take courses or do extra courses before applying to med school go about doing so? If you have a previous degree and want to take extra classes in the evening while working - do you just contact your local university and sign up for courses? my local university has stated you need to be part of a program to take classes, even if I've previously graduated from the program and just want to re-do courses.

I applied to be a student-at-large. Once accepted and registered, I was able to register for courses. However, the downside is that student-at-large status doesn't allow priority registration for classes, meaning classes at favorable time may be full by the time I'm allowed to register.

 

[DrMikeP]

Your argument falls into the trap of a common logical fallacy (post-hoc ergo propter hoc) where student goes to CC and does not get admitted. Therefore going to CC caused the student get admitted and avoiding CC will cause a student to get admitted. This is an over simplification and perpetuates the stigma that largely exists on SDN regarding CC classes. This also reduces the application process and the factors that are considered to where a student attended school and not GPA, MCAT, and ECs, which we know are heavily considered.

It absolutely is the OP's choice and he or she must do what feels right.

Then go to cc and get admitted. I hope you do!

It's about statistics and maximization of opportunity. I could debate stats but its not worth it as I've already passed my half dozen getting my first doctorate.

Again when in doubt contact the med schools you want and ask. They are happy to tell you what they frown upon and what they prefer.

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[GreenDuck12]

My original point was that your statement "CC is OK for most DO programs but is frowned on or not accepted for many MD programs" is not an accurate representation of the OPs options nor how an applicant will be evaluated. Excellent grades, MCAT score, and ECs are things that are looked for. I agree with your suggestion for the OP to contact medical schools that he or she is interested in attending. I would also get a copy of the MSAR.

Then go to cc and get admitted. I hope you do!

It's about statistics and maximization of opportunity. I could debate stats but its not worth it as I've already passed my half dozen getting my first doctorate.

Again when in doubt contact the med schools you want and ask. They are happy to tell you what they frown upon and what they prefer.

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[PhysioMD]

Thanks guys! I will contact schools! Looks like MD want university and some DO don't mind CC. I will take uni courses to be safe.


My second question is regarding the course levels: people say to take senior classes. There is a very interesting 3rd year course being offered. Would that look bad? From what I see in the science departments a lot of interesting courses are 3rd year and a lot of 4th year are thesis or research courses, which limits my options as a continuing student.

 

[GreenDuck12]

Universities have different systems for coding classes. Instead of thinking about Jr or Sr level courses, I find that it is easier to think of courses as lower division vs upper division. Lower division roughly correlates to Fr/Soph level courses while upper division are roughly Jr/Sr level. Anything in the upper division should be fine for demonstrating your aptitude beyond the scope of the required courses.

Thanks guys! I will contact schools! Looks like MD want university and some DO don't mind CC. I will take uni courses to be safe.


My second question is regarding the course levels: people say to take senior classes. There is a very interesting 3rd year course being offered. Would that look bad? From what I see in the science departments a lot of interesting courses are 3rd year and a lot of 4th year are thesis or research courses, which limits my options as a continuing student.