Taking new MCAT versus currrent MCAT (Adcom input extremely appreciated!)

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Unidentified1

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My brother is going into his Freshman year. He has already taken General Biology and General Chemistry, so he will be taking Physics and Organic Chemistry in his Freshman and/or Sophmore year. This gives him the possibility of taking the MCAT the summer after his Freshman/Sophmore year, giving him time to study through the summer, possibility of retakes, etc. Or he could take the MCAT after his Junior year, as is "normal". If he takes the MCAT after his Junior year, he will be taking the new MCAT.


The question is, will somebody who is applying to medical school with "old" MCAT scores be looked upon differently than somebody who is applying with "new" MCAT scores? My brother will almost certainly be applying during a cycle where there are people with both. Will adcoms favor the "old" because it's what they know? Will they favor the "new" because it fits with the system more? What factors might be at play?
 
If he can, he should take the old MCAT. The new one takes longer and sounds more grueling on test day.
 
Yeah I'm gonna vote for the old MCAT on this one.

Details haven't been confirmed for the new one, but I would still go with the old one based on information on the new one released thus far.
 
I say take the old one, not for reasons against the new MCAT, but so that he could take the summer to study for the test. That study time, while not having to take classes, is invaluable.
 
The new MCAT will be 6 hours and 15 minutes of time spent answering questions, NOT including breaks.

I would not want to go through that.
 
The new MCAT will be 6 hours and 15 minutes of time spent answering questions, NOT including breaks.

I would not want to go through that.

The 2013 and 2014 MCAT is only 3 hours and 20 minutes of answering [graded] questions. I wonder how this will affect scores.
 
If he can, he should take the old MCAT. The new one takes longer and sounds more grueling on test day.

Completely agree.

Someone definitely correct me if I'm wrong on this--- but I was thinking that since it will be new, nobody will know completely what to expect. So wouldn't TPR, TBR, Kaplan ect.. have to modify their review books and practice questions? And especially the first year that it is administered, there is no experience or time for these companies to come up with newer editions that better mirror the actual exam in order to better prepare the students reading their materials, and practice tests like AAMC-3 and all of them they would be hard predictors of scores because again, its going to be different. It really just seems like it will be a guinea pig year so I would personally want to stay away from it.
 
Just playing devil's advocate here (I would definitely not want to take the new one) but if its just a guinea pig year and everyone taking it will be going in almost blind, won't the percentiles reflect that? it might be much easier to get a decent percentile since everyone will be on an even playing field versus the old exam where people with the resources can have endless amounts of prep material.
 
Just playing devil's advocate here (I would definitely not want to take the new one) but if its just a guinea pig year and everyone taking it will be going in almost blind, won't the percentiles reflect that? it might be much easier to get a decent percentile since everyone will be on an even playing field versus the old exam where people with the resources can have endless amounts of prep material.

This is actually what I've been wondering too since I'll most likely be done with my pre reqs in Spr 2014, I could could try to take the MCAT after that summer, or I could take a few more upper level science classes over the summer/fall to increase my GPA/give me more science background, then be a guinea pig and take the new MCAT early in 2015... hmmm. Sometimes being a guinea pig is a good thing, I wonder if that would be the case for the new MCAT.
 
The new MCAT will be 6 hours and 15 minutes of time spent answering questions, NOT including breaks.

I would not want to go through that.

You realize licensing exams in med school are longer then that right? Better get used to it.
 
You realize licensing exams in med school are longer then that right? Better get used to it.

There's nothing wrong with the current MCAT. Sections on psychology and sociology are a ******ed waste of time.
 
The percentiles will be more important than the actual score. To predict how your brother may do percentile-wise when everyone is taking the same new test will be hard. If your brother is an endurance test taker, and good with thinking on his feet in terms of unfamiliar ground, he'll probably do better than most. If the new test has sections your brother historically does not do well on then it'll probably be slightly worse.

It will vary form person to person.


There's nothing wrong with the current MCAT. Sections on psychology and sociology are a ******ed waste of time.

As opposed to the writing section? Half of it is graded by computers, adcoms don't even look twice at that score.
 
The percentiles will be more important than the actual score. To predict how your brother may do percentile-wise when everyone is taking the same new test will be hard. If your brother is an endurance test taker, and good with thinking on his feet in terms of unfamiliar ground, he'll probably do better than most. If the new test has sections your brother historically does not do well on then it'll probably be slightly worse.

It will vary form person to person.




As opposed to the writing section? Half of it is graded by computers, adcoms don't even look twice at that score.

3 hours and 20 minutes on questions + shut my brain off for 60 minutes while I write a crappy essay that no one will care about versus 6 hours and 20 minutes on questions, including irrelevant garbage like sociology and psychology.

Oh, and the new MCAT will most likely make sociology, psychology, other humanities, and biochemistry a universal prerequisite for medical school. Come on, let's make the process even more pointlessly expensive, exclusionary, grueling, and difficult!
 
Just playing devil's advocate here (I would definitely not want to take the new one) but if its just a guinea pig year and everyone taking it will be going in almost blind, won't the percentiles reflect that? it might be much easier to get a decent percentile since everyone will be on an even playing field versus the old exam where people with the resources can have endless amounts of prep material.

It won't be easier since the same percent of people will score poorly and well. What you'll find change is who is getting the high percents now. Rather than that going mostly to the people who study 5 months straight and blast the test, you'll be less able to get an advantage by studying a ton since we're not sure how to study. A lot of the people who wouldn't normally be in a high percentage because they didn't study that much will actually be in the mix, and inevitably some people are going to have to swap places. Sounds to me like a recipe for GPA to maybe matter more than usual initially and for greater emphasis to be placed on the sections that were like the old test before more data can be examined about the new stuff.

There's nothing wrong with the current MCAT. Sections on psychology and sociology are a ******ed waste of time.

Not really. Medicine is not about just opening a cadaver and examining molecular interactions--at least, not the most effective medicine. You've got to understand various factors that contribute to patients getting disease, and sufficiently understand enough that you can best improve the health of your patients. It's very similar to why the best student isn't always the best doctor--knowing the anatomy and biology is the most important part of this stuff, but the best physicians know more than just that. I applaud the test (though I still think the MCAT should be changed significantly) for embracing that reality.

And yeah, 6+ hours for the test is just outrageous, not even including breaks. There are worse tests, sure, but I'm not in a competition to take the worst test mankind can offer.
 
Not really. Medicine is not about just opening a cadaver and examining molecular interactions--at least, not the most effective medicine. You've got to understand various factors that contribute to patients getting disease, and sufficiently understand enough that you can best improve the health of your patients. It's very similar to why the best student isn't always the best doctor--knowing the anatomy and biology is the most important part of this stuff, but the best physicians know more than just that. I applaud the test (though I still think the MCAT should be changed significantly) for embracing that reality.

I understand what you're saying, but requiring students to take psych and soc and answer multiple choice, cultural sensitivity questions for 90 minutes on a standardized test isn't going to change or help anything. Adding that section was an incredibly stupid decision.
 
Not really. Medicine is not about just opening a cadaver and examining molecular interactions--at least, not the most effective medicine. You've got to understand various factors that contribute to patients getting disease, and sufficiently understand enough that you can best improve the health of your patients. It's very similar to why the best student isn't always the best doctor--knowing the anatomy and biology is the most important part of this stuff, but the best physicians know more than just that. I applaud the test (though I still think the MCAT should be changed significantly) for embracing that reality.

I agree with this statement. There's a reason that the top medical schools typically look for candidates that have interests/activities/extracurriculars outside of medicine and it's because they want well rounded candidates. Being amazing at the sciences isn't all that there is to become a great physician, and I think this MCAT is a step in the right direction in identifying the right types of people to become doctors. Tests are never perfect and will never fully capture that facet of people, but it's better than nothing, especially when you have tens of thousands of applicants with nearly identical classes.
 
It won't be easier since the same percent of people will score poorly and well. What you'll find change is who is getting the high percents now. Rather than that going mostly to the people who study 5 months straight and blast the test, you'll be less able to get an advantage by studying a ton since we're not sure how to study. A lot of the people who wouldn't normally be in a high percentage because they didn't study that much will actually be in the mix, and inevitably some people are going to have to swap places. Sounds to me like a recipe for GPA to maybe matter more than usual initially and for greater emphasis to be placed on the sections that were like the old test before more data can be examined about the new stuff.



Not really. Medicine is not about just opening a cadaver and examining molecular interactions--at least, not the most effective medicine. You've got to understand various factors that contribute to patients getting disease, and sufficiently understand enough that you can best improve the health of your patients. It's very similar to why the best student isn't always the best doctor--knowing the anatomy and biology is the most important part of this stuff, but the best physicians know more than just that. I applaud the test (though I still think the MCAT should be changed significantly) for embracing that reality.

And yeah, 6+ hours for the test is just outrageous, not even including breaks. There are worse tests, sure, but I'm not in a competition to take the worst test mankind can offer.

Thank you for the second part of your post. Medicine is very much about embracing and understanding the "human" factor behind the illnesses we will be trying to treat and prevent.
 
I agree with this statement. There's a reason that the top medical schools typically look for candidates that have interests/activities/extracurriculars outside of medicine and it's because they want well rounded candidates. Being amazing at the sciences isn't all that there is to become a great physician, and I think this MCAT is a step in the right direction in identifying the right types of people to become doctors. Tests are never perfect and will never fully capture that facet of people, but it's better than nothing, especially when you have tens of thousands of applicants with nearly identical classes.

"We don't want academic robots. We want people with interests outside of school and medicine."
...
"Applicants now must take additional coursework and complete an additional section on a standardized test."
 
"We don't want academic robots. We want people with interests outside of school and medicine."
...
"Applicants now must take additional coursework and complete an additional section on a standardized test."

I think this is more of a case of the MCAT changing to reflect what adcoms are looking for. Either way I definitely feel like the MCAT changes will result in better selection of medical students.
 
It is my understanding that the new MCAT will simply replace the writing with socg/psych questions which will be ungraded until 2015.

Also for posters referring to this new section is "******ed," you are the exact reasons why this change is being made. Referring to something as "******ed" is an insensitive and technically impossible comment. Use your adult words and grow up.
 
I guess they were sick of people getting 36Ks.
 
It is my understanding that the new MCAT will simply replace the writing with socg/psych questions which will be ungraded until 2015.

Also for posters referring to this new section is "******ed," you are the exact reasons why this change is being made. Referring to something as "******ed" is an insensitive and technically impossible comment. Use your adult words and grow up.

Slang Dictionary

******ed definition



  1. mod.
    bad; defective. : This old DVD player is so ******ed. Time for a new one.
Dictionary of American Slang and Colloquial Expressions by Richard A. Spears.Fourth Edition.
Copyright 2007. Published by McGraw Hill.


No, it's not just an inclusion of psychology and sociology. Biochemistry is also being added, and all sections are longer:

Biological and Biochemical Foundations of Living Systems (65 questions, 95 minutes)
Chemical and Physical Foundations of Biological Systems (65 questions, 95 minutes)
Psychological, Social, and Biological Foundations of Behavior (65 questions, 95 minutes)
Critical Analysis and Reasoning Skills (60 questions, 90 minutes)
 
I'd take the old one. Besides, in 2013, the writing portion will be gone, but the psych/soci/etc portion won't be there. It's a total win-win.

At least, that's what I understood from AAMC's website. Fortunately, I'll get to take the new/old version.😉 Depending on whether my younger brothers decide to take the premed route, they'll have to take the new version.🙁
 
If your brother takes it earlier & then decides to take a year off, has an unexpected life circumstance arise, or doesn't get into school on his first application cycle, his scores are going to expire...then he'd have to re-take with the new MCAT. Just something to consider
 
If your brother takes it earlier & then decides to take a year off, has an unexpected life circumstance arise, or doesn't get into school on his first application cycle, his scores are going to expire...then he'd have to re-take with the new MCAT. Just something to consider

😱
So if I hypothetically took the MCAT summer 2014 I couldn't use those scores if I was to apply in 2015?
 
If your brother takes it earlier & then decides to take a year off, has an unexpected life circumstance arise, or doesn't get into school on his first application cycle, his scores are going to expire...then he'd have to re-take with the new MCAT. Just something to consider

What makes you say this? Expiration dates are decided on a school-by-school basis, but they are generally 3 years to application or matriculation. There is no way that schools can expect 2014 test-takers to retake the new MCAT for the 2015 application cycle.
 
😱
So if I hypothetically took the MCAT summer 2014 I couldn't use those scores if I was to apply in 2015?

No I believe you will be able to use those scores. Applicants in the 2015 cycle will likely contain people who took the old as well as people who took the new MCAT.
 
What makes you say this? Expiration dates are decided on a school-by-school basis, but they are generally 3 years to application or matriculation. There is no way that schools can expect 2014 test-takers to retake the new MCAT for the 2015 application cycle.

Yeah, that would mean that everyone who took the MCAT in 2014 and didn't apply/get into med school that year would have to retake it before applying (so before June/July) in 2015. That seems like it doesn't make sense. If that is the case then it seems like AAMC wouldn't even offer the MCAT past a certain date in 2014, right? Because then no one would take it in the fall that year if they were just going to have to retake it all over again a few months later.
 
I'm still wondering what compensation will mean to those who take the extra 45 minutes to answer 32 questions? Points would be nice...😀

What will be different about the MCAT exam in 2013 and 2014?

If you plan to take the MCAT exam in 2013 or 2014, please note that the Writing Sample section will no longer be part of the exam. In its place, a voluntary, unscored trial section will be added to the MCAT exam starting in January 2013. These unscored questions within the trial section will test content added to the MCAT in 2015, including psychology, sociology, and biochemistry. The trial section will consist of 32 questions and will be administered in a 45-minute time period after all three operational sections (Physical Sciences, Verbal Reasoning, and Biological Sciences) have been administered. Including the trial section, the 2013 and 2014 total testing time will not change.

Examinees who volunteer to participate in the trial section, and put forth a good faith effort, will be compensated. The trial section will be administered under standard conditions for all examinees who volunteer to participate and scores will not be reported for this section. Please note that admissions officers will continue to receive Writing Sample scores from exams taken in 2012 and prior.
 
What makes you say this? Expiration dates are decided on a school-by-school basis, but they are generally 3 years to application or matriculation. There is no way that schools can expect 2014 test-takers to retake the new MCAT for the 2015 application cycle.

indeed. 3 years tends to be the time for which they're good. The OP said his brother would possibly be taking the exam between freshman & sophomore years as an option to get it done before the new exam. If he applied senior year & was unsuccessful after taking it that early, he would need to re-take the MCAT if he wanted to re-apply, because the score would already be 3 years old when he applied as a senior. A pretty large % of qualified applicants don't get accepted in their first attempt...it's just something to consider.
 
😱
So if I hypothetically took the MCAT summer 2014 I couldn't use those scores if I was to apply in 2015?

Not at all. He said his brother was considering taking the MCAT early in college, which would make his scores 3 years old at the end of senior year. That would make his scores too old if he needed to apply a year later than expected or re-apply. They tend to be accepted for 3 years. It's just a reason not to rush to take them after freshman year as he suggested, because you can't predict the next3 years that reliably.
 
Sociology and psychology are the exact opposite of irrelevant to medicine. These areas of study will only enhance your ability to treat patients. Remember, you're supposed to be doing this for them.
 
Slang Dictionary
  1. mod.
    bad; defective. : This old DVD player is so ******ed. Time for a new one.
Dictionary of American Slang and Colloquial Expressions by Richard A. Spears.Fourth Edition.
Copyright 2007. Published by McGraw Hill.

You do realize a word can still be offensive to a group of people even if the dictionary definition isn't seemingly offensive, right? You can't possibly be this naive.
 
Sociology and psychology are the exact opposite of irrelevant to medicine. These areas of study will only enhance your ability to treat patients. Remember, you're supposed to be doing this for them.

If you don't understand or can't relate to the social and economic problems of others, then two additional classes aren't going to help. Making it a requirement is dumb and making it a testable section on the MCAT is even dumber.

Before you ask, I've taken introductory soc and psych classes. They're a waste of time.
 
If you don't understand or can't relate to the social and economic problems of others, then two additional classes aren't going to help. Making it a requirement is dumb and making it a testable section on the MCAT is even dumber.

Before you ask, I've taken introductory soc and psych classes. They're a waste of time.

You have yet to prove to me how they can hurt. You may think they're "worthless" but I would chalk that up to a poor professor/easy class/lack of interest.

And in terms of requiring just two courses, I think premeds should be required to take more psychology and sociology. Feel free to correct me but there's probably a pretty big gap between "not being able to understand" and truly caring about the welfare of others. I think a more diverse education makes for a more diverse student and a better doctor. God knows that the majority of premeds I run into are all the same!
 
You have yet to prove to me how they can hurt. You may think they're "worthless" but I would chalk that up to a poor professor/easy class/lack of interest.

And in terms of requiring just two courses, I think premeds should be required to take more psychology and sociology. Feel free to correct me but there's probably a pretty big gap between "not being able to understand" and truly caring about the welfare of others. I think a more diverse education makes for a more diverse student and a better doctor. God knows that the majority of premeds I run into are all the same!

Adding an hour and a half long section on multiple choice psych/soc questions is pointless. It's not going to foster an understanding of "the human condition," improve physician quality, produce well-rounded physicians, or make us "truly care about the welfare of others." The out-of-touch rich kids, the borderline sociopaths, and the studybots are still going to find their way in.

The current coursework is producing adequately prepared medical students as evident by low rates of remediation and attrition. Requiring additional coursework that is either pointless (sociology & psychology) or capable of being learned during med school (biochem) is not helping anyone. Rather, it's potentially excluding other majors from applying: engineering, performing arts, mathematics, etc. majors have a hard enough time using their free electives on the useful med school prereqs.
 
I think we can all agree that it is important for the modern physician to have an understanding of human behavior, ethics, psychology, sociology, etc. It is important to be in touch with the human element so physicians can better direct and apply the knowledge of the sciences for the betterment of society.

However, I personally do not think the MCAT is the place to test such skills. Essays and interviews give better insight to these personality traits, IMO. I believe that putting these sections on an exam is unnecessary and adds an increased burden on applicants (Then again, maybe that is the point as applicant pools become increasingly competitive every year).

To the OP - I would definitely suggest taking the 2014 MCAT. There are too many unknown variables at play with the new exam.
 
This is just my intuition speaking, not wisdom... but wouldn't adcoms be questioning why you took the 2014 MCAT, considering that you'd (or whoever) be applying for the entering class for 2016? I'm sure they'd see it as a way of avoidance and not having the ability to take on new challenges...

Just a personal opinion, but I don't believe that our future physicians should be afraid to be challenged. 😉
 
To whoever it was that mentioned review materials that would need to be rewritten, the AAMC will be releasing new review materials in the spring of 2014 and again in January of 2015 for the new exam. Whether that will be through Kaplan or someone else, I'm not sure. But for everyone taking the new 2015 version, materials will be available!

And the new sections really won't be that terrible guys... all a student needs to do is take an intro psychology and intro ethics course (that's assuming they will already be taking biochemistry). It shouldn't be a problem!

I really do think this will result in a better rounded group of individuals going into medical school.
 
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Although I'm taking the current MCAT, the new MCAT is not a step in the right direction. It's basically favoring students who are less knowledgeable in the true sciences such as chemistry and physics and favoring those who seek the easy way out and major in behavioral and social sciences. The new changes aren't going allow med schools to select better candidates, but rather those who have lesser problem solving skills and those who are less interested in academic medicine.
 
Adding an hour and a half long section on multiple choice psych/soc questions is pointless. It's not going to foster an understanding of "the human condition," improve physician quality, produce well-rounded physicians, or make us "truly care about the welfare of others." The out-of-touch rich kids, the borderline sociopaths, and the studybots are still going to find their way in.

The current coursework is producing adequately prepared medical students as evident by low rates of remediation and attrition. Requiring additional coursework that is either pointless (sociology & psychology) or capable of being learned during med school (biochem) is not helping anyone. Rather, it's potentially excluding other majors from applying: engineering, performing arts, mathematics, etc. majors have a hard enough time using their free electives on the useful med school prereqs.

I'm barely reading your post so correct me if I'm wrong. You think courses in psychology and sociology are pointless because a certain group of undesirables can still make it through. I think it's a foolish assertion. I never said that the aforementioned courses would somehow weed out psychopaths or unappreciative rich kids, I said that these courses can't possibly hurt. If they are only requiring psych and sociology 1, then yes if I had my way I would swap those with neuroscience and interpersonal communication. That being said, I think the more psychology and sociology the better.

But maybe you're right. Maybe we should just remove the biology requirements too. They certainly pale in comparison to what you're going to learn in medical school anyway, right? Besides, they're markedly easier than what chemical engineers or math majors take.
 
Although I'm taking the current MCAT, the new MCAT is not a step in the right direction. It's basically favoring students who are less knowledgeable in the true sciences such as chemistry and physics and favoring those who seek the easy way out and major in behavioral and social sciences. The new changes aren't going allow med schools to select better candidates, but rather those who have lesser problem solving skills and those who are less interested in academic medicine.

I reject your statement that taking behavioral and social sciences is necessarily "the easy way out". Some of us opt to study what we truly enjoy and simply take the premed requirements. I find that much more favorable than choosing a random biology route because you think you have to be a bio major to get into medical school.
 
My brother is going into his Freshman year. He has already taken General Biology and General Chemistry, so he will be taking Physics and Organic Chemistry in his Freshman and/or Sophmore year. This gives him the possibility of taking the MCAT the summer after his Freshman/Sophmore year, giving him time to study through the summer, possibility of retakes, etc. Or he could take the MCAT after his Junior year, as is "normal". If he takes the MCAT after his Junior year, he will be taking the new MCAT.


The question is, will somebody who is applying to medical school with "old" MCAT scores be looked upon differently than somebody who is applying with "new" MCAT scores? My brother will almost certainly be applying during a cycle where there are people with both. Will adcoms favor the "old" because it's what they know? Will they favor the "new" because it fits with the system more? What factors might be at play?

I think it depends on what kind of student/test taker your brother is. For example, did he need to study vigorously to improve his SAT score or was he able to get his final score without too much extra preparation? Does he spend hours in the library before a test trying to memorize every last detail or does he focus more on understanding fundamental concepts?

If the latter (in both cases), I feel like he might do well on new test. I'm that way, and I almost wish I could have taken the new MCAT myself. My baseline test scores were already pretty good since the way I study/learn is better for retaining information long-term. I already had a solid foundation, so I improved some but not a ton from studying. But there are a lot of students who don't test well without extensive preparation but are disciplined, so they grind for hours and hours to eventually get a good score. I think these students are the ones whose scores will suffer during the transition to the new MCAT.
 
Although I'm taking the current MCAT, the new MCAT is not a step in the right direction. It's basically favoring students who are less knowledgeable in the true sciences such as chemistry and physics and favoring those who seek the easy way out and major in behavioral and social sciences. The new changes aren't going allow med schools to select better candidates, but rather those who have lesser problem solving skills and those who are less interested in academic medicine.

However, I can guarantee you adcoms are going to place more weight on the basic science sections. Moreover, if you are smart enough and/or dedicated you should do just fine on all of the sections. Not directed at any one in particular, the old test and new are simply hoops to jump through. Both tests are unpleasant and if you have that much of a problem with the alterations I suggest you seriously reconsider your career path. I recently finished submitting my secondary applications for this cycle and that endeavor is far worse than any 6 or even 8 hour test (step1). The MCAT new/old is not a big deal, it is a very small hurdle in the path to med school. Just do it, and do well.
 
I think it is better for Current freshman to rush MCAT scores before 2015 comes along. But I want you to realize that the 2015 MCAT may be given in mid to late 2014. So:

2012-2013: Freshman
2013-2014-Sophomore
2014-2015-Junior (At this point, the 2015 test may have already been administered)
2015-2016- Senior
2016-2017-Super Senior--Are you aware that not all students graduate in 4 years 😱 and that you really cant take a year off.


If you apply for the 2017 cycle are the 2013/2014 Tests too late?
 
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