Since we've spent so much time discussing this question, can u tell us what your native language is? Maybe this can help with finding u the relevant resources.
taking Organic chem 2 times = got D in both time
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Since we've spent so much time discussing this question, can u tell us what your native language is? Maybe this can help with finding u the relevant resources.
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OP should be aware that special accommodations due to learning disability are rarely granted for either MCAT or boards. In fact, the USMLE folks will not entertain any request without a paper trail going back to elementary school. (See http://www.usmle.org/test-accommodations/guidelines.html#guidelines-learning-disorders)
^ Very true for the MCAT too.
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I was thinking the same. OP, it doesn't seem like OChem is your problem specifically. It seems nearly every science class in general has given you trouble. Do you remember how you did in biology or chemistry in high school back home? If your answer is "Not so good." Maybe the whole language barrier is not the problem.
When are you planning to take the MCAT? Doing well REQUIRES a solid foundation in the basic sciences as well as OChem AND the English language.
Have you considered other career paths? I'm not trying to be mean, but, you are obviously struggling with multiple courses which should be an indication of something........
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I never took Biology and chemistry in high school back home. I was in US when I was 17. In the first year I was here, I took Chem I and Biology I in US high school. I got A in chem I and C- in Biology (US high school).
I plan to take MCAT in summer 2013.
I plan to take MCAT in summer 2013.
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I would never try to talk someone out of a dream, but it may be beneficial to seriously assess if becoming a physician is a nice thought or the only option for your future. I always "dreamed" to be a professional football player, but I had the realization in high school that there aren't many players that are 150 lbs and run a 4.8/40.
It may ease the possible transition into a different path if you start thinking about other career options now. It would be foolish to blindly say physician or NOTHING!
Good luck, OP! I wish you the best!
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As other's have mentioned, medical school requires an excellent knowledge of science. Medical school classes themselves are science oriented, building on the basic knowledge of science you have and going well above that.
If you can not do well in basic science classes, you are not going to be able to pass medical school science classes. Not everybody can do science.
It very well may be that the language difficulties are the cause of your poor science grades. In that case, your focus should be on figuring out the language.
Yes, people who have done poorly in O-Chem & other science classes can go on to medical school. But they have to be able to figure out what outside circumstances caused those difficulties and figure out how to overcome those problems. People who just are not science people, and hence get bad grades in science class, are not going to make it through medical school.
If you can not do well in basic science classes, you are not going to be able to pass medical school science classes. Not everybody can do science.
It very well may be that the language difficulties are the cause of your poor science grades. In that case, your focus should be on figuring out the language.
Yes, people who have done poorly in O-Chem & other science classes can go on to medical school. But they have to be able to figure out what outside circumstances caused those difficulties and figure out how to overcome those problems. People who just are not science people, and hence get bad grades in science class, are not going to make it through medical school.
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There's also that whole patient interaction thing....
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Some of the discussions have been focused on the trees while missing the forest
Learning medicine is similar to learning another language - full of technicalities, abbreviations, etc. Mastery of the primary language (english) is of utmost importance before one begins the pursuit of medicine.
Anatomy is hard enough with its fast pace information, memorization, latin and greek words, etc. Try learning it through a language filter. If you survive anatomy, there's always histology, biochemistry. embyrology, pharmacology that all have their own terminologies and vocabularies.
If you are struggling with English, you will struggle with these courses.
The USMLE/COMLEX will definately be more complicated (more so than SAT/ACT/MCAT) since they not only require mastery of materials, but also able to comprehend the question (which can be 2nd or 3rd order questions)
Clinical rotations can be brutal. You'll encounter patients of all race, genders, and education backgrounds where you will be challenged to understand what they are saying. Add local (or foreign) accents, along with local idioms and saying and it will complicate matters. You have to be able to quickly and comfortably communicate with your patients, your residents, and your attendings.
Residency will be a whole new challenge (especially with all the paperwork involve).
Some of my classmates whose english weren't their first language struggle with their classes - not because they weren't intelligent (quite the opposite, they were very brillant) but had trouble learning the material through a language barrier.
I suspect your poor grades in the sciences may not be due to your ability to comprehend the material, but your ability to learn the material in English (you have mentioned that you are translating what your professors are saying into your native tongue in your head during class). You have to work to improve your english to the point where it is natural and no translation is needed. At that point, you will be ready to tackle the sciences, the MCAT (and future standardize tests) as well as medical schools.
Learning medicine is similar to learning another language - full of technicalities, abbreviations, etc. Mastery of the primary language (english) is of utmost importance before one begins the pursuit of medicine.
Anatomy is hard enough with its fast pace information, memorization, latin and greek words, etc. Try learning it through a language filter. If you survive anatomy, there's always histology, biochemistry. embyrology, pharmacology that all have their own terminologies and vocabularies.
If you are struggling with English, you will struggle with these courses.
The USMLE/COMLEX will definately be more complicated (more so than SAT/ACT/MCAT) since they not only require mastery of materials, but also able to comprehend the question (which can be 2nd or 3rd order questions)
Clinical rotations can be brutal. You'll encounter patients of all race, genders, and education backgrounds where you will be challenged to understand what they are saying. Add local (or foreign) accents, along with local idioms and saying and it will complicate matters. You have to be able to quickly and comfortably communicate with your patients, your residents, and your attendings.
Residency will be a whole new challenge (especially with all the paperwork involve).
Some of my classmates whose english weren't their first language struggle with their classes - not because they weren't intelligent (quite the opposite, they were very brillant) but had trouble learning the material through a language barrier.
I suspect your poor grades in the sciences may not be due to your ability to comprehend the material, but your ability to learn the material in English (you have mentioned that you are translating what your professors are saying into your native tongue in your head during class). You have to work to improve your english to the point where it is natural and no translation is needed. At that point, you will be ready to tackle the sciences, the MCAT (and future standardize tests) as well as medical schools.
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I'm not sure, but just how much English is there in organic chemistry exactly.... In my class all the teacher did for tests was leave you with a bunch of reagents and stated draw out product or a mechanism. I'd imagine that a language barrier would create conflict in Biology, but chemistry or physical science not so much...
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the problem is that your taking a teacher who doesn't curve. If you take a chem course w/ a professor who doesn't curve at least a 70 to a B you're doing it all wrong!
And that's the story of my chemistry degree in a nutshell.
disclaimer: If it's a quantum chemistry course a 30% should be a B.
And that's the story of my chemistry degree in a nutshell.
disclaimer: If it's a quantum chemistry course a 30% should be a B.
Dude you need to figure out how to pass this course. Medical school will be a lot harder. You also need to realize that some things that people think might be hard turn out to be easier. You are having a tough time with this weedout course, but you need to be able to handle the grunt work. Medicine is a marathon, and if you don't have what it takes to take a lot of pain, you aren't going to get any good game. The victory will be even sweater when you make it in. You got a long long way to go, but if you take this course for osteo GPA calculation you can get the grades completely replaced. Even if you get a good grade though realize there are some big changes you have to make in your life.
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Is it weird that when I read this sentence it was in Macho Man Randy Savage's voice??? OOOOOOHHHH YEAAAAAHHHH!!!!
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Just a comment... You do need to reevaluate your study habits
I know an Arabic fellow from Yemen who can barely speak English proficiently, but he got good grades. You don't really need English for the Orgos... Organic chemistry is a language unto itself. I can't see how you get a D by just not being proficient in the English language.
To be clear, no DO school is going to take you with a stack of C's only. You need to retake everything. You need to prove you can be a medical student. These are only the intro classes. No Biochem, no genetics. You've got to re evaluate your study methods and get on the ball.
Don't worry about applying to DO school right now. Worry about getting your sGPA to around 3.3. Then start thinking about school.
Good luck
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Thank you for your suggestion. I quit worrying about chances of med school now. But I still want to go med school. Right now, I am worry about my grade, my study strategy.
You have a chance but it's going to look pretty bad and get brought up. At this point, use one of those professor ratings online and sign up for an instructor that guarantees an A in the class. And all your grades from here on out should be As.
Yes you have a chance for DO admission, eventually. I will let you know that a gentleman I know who is older, around 30+, well his father is a surgeon in Europe, and has received grade of F twice. He has taken many biological science courses with mostly As and Bs, in especially his more early years of school. Now that he is busy, he has not had time to devote to more of the weeder type of course, and it also might be because of differences in his prior small college experience, in comparison to the bigger university, where he now attends. DO uses the last grade earned in the computation, so you can still go to DO. Look on MDApplicants.com, and it is clear by the predominance of 3.0 GPAs given a certain tolerance in either direction accepted to medical school. Going to MD however, you are on an even more uphill battle, and you should reevaluate your study habits if you are to get into medical school, and reach their cuttoffs, or you will be failing exams. You need to iterate to us also what you got in those 5 retaken classes (if you haven't already). If you have achieved high marks, then you know that organic might be your particular nemesis at this school. You will face much greater challenges then this in the future.
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This is old mail so I don't know what you doing. If you want to be doctor you can be. It will not work in USA because of MCAT where there is too much Ochem they ask. Try to get in country where there is no ochem example India and if you look around there are lot of doc from India. Finish your M.D there and come back USA and clear USMLE I,II,III and you are done.
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How to find that type of professor. I got C in ochem i so i will have to rpt it. For ochem ii i will need tutor.
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You really need to read David Klein's books. Both of them. Yes, even the first one. Because you got a C in Ochem 1, your foundation is not where it needs to be. You need to fully understand the beginning material before moving on to that which is novel (though the third time 'round nothing should be novel, but I digress). Once you are done with the first book, then read the second. I would do this BEFORE starting your next Ochem 2 class. If you are having trouble with any of the concepts in either book, THEN get a tutor to help you. But the onus (or anus) is on you to take control of the material and your own study habits. Don't become a statistic.
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Need an A the third time, imo. A "D" is passing.
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That's weird. My ug requires a c for credit towards your degree. C- and lower means you've wasted your time and the class has to be repeated if it's for your degree
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Really? Mine lets you get a D apparently :/
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My university requires a C in all your major/ support classes, but C-'s can be used for electives.
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Shouldn't you take some ESL classes? If you took some ESL classes and really improved your English, then retook ORGO AFTER that. It would be so much more convincing to the medical school admissions committee that you identified your problem of why you did so poorly (the first 2 times) and took the proactive actions to fix it. (Rather then stubbornly retaking the class without identifying the real problem).
And from what I read, there can only be three problems:
1. You didn't keep up with the material as it was presented.
2. Unworkable study habits for this class. (ORGO is unlike any other class and the way you study for it can not be the same as the way you studied Biology for example).
3. Poor English
Medical school is faster pace than ORGO. If you can't keep up with ORGO because you are slow and have to translate a lot of things, how will you keep up in med school? You don't want to fail out of medical school so you should identify the real problem here. YOU CAN do it if you have persistence and don't give up. However, you have to be completely fluent in English because medical school would be too hard if you weren't. If the admissions committee gets the idea that you will have to translate a lot of material, they may not let you in. They want to admit students who they know will pass their classes.
*By the way, have do you tried recording your lectures? I had to do this when I took ORGO. I just bought a little hand held voice recorder and recorded all the lectures. I would listen to the lecture again, pausing when I need to etc. Sometimes I took 3 hours to listen to a one hour lecture because I would go through it so thoroughly. And if your lectures are Monday/Wednesday/Friday for example, you have to re-listen to Monday's lecture before Wednesday. So Monday after lecture or on Tuesday you should re-listen to the recorded lecture. I never even opened our ORGO book because it wasn't even helpful for learning the right material. This also looks as if it is the case with you. You are reading the book and still getting Ds. Maybe you shouldn't read the book then!? Focus on his lectures and what he says in lecture. Usually professors will never test on something unless it is covered in lecture. In this case it should be easy, and the trick to doing well in my ORGO class was to just MASTER THE LECTURES (not the book).
Good luck!
And from what I read, there can only be three problems:
1. You didn't keep up with the material as it was presented.
2. Unworkable study habits for this class. (ORGO is unlike any other class and the way you study for it can not be the same as the way you studied Biology for example).
3. Poor English
Medical school is faster pace than ORGO. If you can't keep up with ORGO because you are slow and have to translate a lot of things, how will you keep up in med school? You don't want to fail out of medical school so you should identify the real problem here. YOU CAN do it if you have persistence and don't give up. However, you have to be completely fluent in English because medical school would be too hard if you weren't. If the admissions committee gets the idea that you will have to translate a lot of material, they may not let you in. They want to admit students who they know will pass their classes.
*By the way, have do you tried recording your lectures? I had to do this when I took ORGO. I just bought a little hand held voice recorder and recorded all the lectures. I would listen to the lecture again, pausing when I need to etc. Sometimes I took 3 hours to listen to a one hour lecture because I would go through it so thoroughly. And if your lectures are Monday/Wednesday/Friday for example, you have to re-listen to Monday's lecture before Wednesday. So Monday after lecture or on Tuesday you should re-listen to the recorded lecture. I never even opened our ORGO book because it wasn't even helpful for learning the right material. This also looks as if it is the case with you. You are reading the book and still getting Ds. Maybe you shouldn't read the book then!? Focus on his lectures and what he says in lecture. Usually professors will never test on something unless it is covered in lecture. In this case it should be easy, and the trick to doing well in my ORGO class was to just MASTER THE LECTURES (not the book).
Good luck!
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D
deleted92121
Took me more than once to understand General Chemistry. Took two retakes actually. But each time, the grade went up until I got a B+ and was happy with it. However, Gen Chem II and both O-Chem I and II I got good grades in. Go figure.
My point is figure out what isn't working and find something that is. I changed my approach to the course and it helped tons. Just took me a few times. A good number of ADCOMS I spoke with said they like to see determination along with results. Doing the same thing over and over without changing your approach and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.
Don't be insane.
Good luck and keep working hard!
My point is figure out what isn't working and find something that is. I changed my approach to the course and it helped tons. Just took me a few times. A good number of ADCOMS I spoke with said they like to see determination along with results. Doing the same thing over and over without changing your approach and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.
Don't be insane.
Good luck and keep working hard!
