Taking physics at an easier school

[antifolate]

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Hello,

I'm a rising sophomore planning to major in computer science. My plan for next semester was to take ochem, bio 2, physics 1, in addition to core CS and math classes. The total credits would be 18. I've taken 20 credits last semester and thought that this schedule would be doable, but I'm not sure now.

My academic advisor and several students advised me to avoid taking physics at my school. It's earned too bad of a reputation that almost all premeds take it elsewhere over the summer. That's what my academic advisor suggested because of my schedule and it's being extremely hard by itself.

My concern about this is that it may seem odd to medical schools in the future. Also that I was planning to spend the next summer preparing for the MCAT with all the prereqs done with.

Which option do you think is the best? Also, another thing, do you recommend taking calc-based physics instead of regular? I kind of like math. I'd appreciate any advice.

 

[desertdweller]

Take algebra based. Take at any university. CC might be suspicious.

 

[theriomorphos]

,

 

[Meeehai]

Hello,

I'm a rising sophomore planning to major in computer science. My plan for next semester was to take ochem, bio 2, physics 1, in addition to core CS and math classes. The total credits would be 18. I've taken 20 credits last semester and thought that this schedule would be doable, but I'm not sure now.

My academic advisor and several students advised me to avoid taking physics at my school. It's earned too bad of a reputation that almost all premeds take it elsewhere over the summer. That's what my academic advisor suggested because of my schedule and it's being extremely hard by itself.

My concern about this is that it may seem odd to medical schools in the future. Also that I was planning to spend the next summer preparing for the MCAT with all the prereqs done with.

Which option do you think is the best? Also, another thing, do you recommend taking calc-based physics instead of regular? I kind of like math. I'd appreciate any advice.

Seems like a tough schedule. Typically I would say you should just take the class anyway because you're probably being paranoid about how bad it actually is, but if the academic advisor is telling you to avoid it, maybe you should. There's nothing wrong with taking the class at another university, I highly doubt anyone will ask why you did that - and if they do, you can straight up tell them it was recommended by your academic advisor. I would recommend taking algebra based physics because it covers the material will you need to know for the MCAT.

 

[antifolate]

Thanks.

@theriomorphos because it's too difficult to do well in. It's like the school's #1 weed-out class.

 

[md-2020]

Thanks.

@theriomorphos because it's too difficult to do well in. It's like the school's #1 weed-out class.

What type of school do you go to where algebra based physics for non-engineering majors with no physics background is the #1 weed-out instead of o-chem?

 

[antifolate]

@md-2020 okay I was going to avoid mentioning my school but whatever: Saint Louis University.

 

[antifolate]

Isn't there any benefit for taking calc-based physics? I really feel like taking it.

 

[md-2020]

@md-2020 okay I was going to avoid mentioning my school but whatever: Saint Louis University.

I wasn't asking for your school name I was pointing out the illogical nature of that argument. In no way would the beginner's level algebra based physics course (AP physics, essentially), be harder than O-chem, or Biochem.

No, calc-based physics is 100% not necessary, except for your own ego. My top 10 uni told pre-meds explicitly not to take it.

 

[Salt Salt]

I wasn't asking for your school name I was pointing out the illogical nature of that argument. In no way would the beginner's level algebra based physics course (AP physics, essentially), be harder than O-chem, or Biochem.

No, calc-based physics is 100% not necessary, except for your own ego. My top 10 uni told pre-meds explicitly not to take it.

Uhh, you realize that isn't a universal rule, right? Ochem wasn't the hardest class at my school by a long shot. Physics 2, however, probably was for most people. And it was algebra-based, for the most part.

 

[antifolate]

In no way would the beginner's level algebra based physics course (AP physics, essentially), be harder than O-chem, or Biochem.

Why not? The difficulty of a class isn't solely determined by its content; there's also how particular the professor is, for example. In the case of my school, the physics department is known to be extremely critical, making the intro physics classes difficult for students. Can't see how that's illogical.

 

[Meeehai]

Calling general science classes "weed out" makes me giggle.

 

[House D.O.]

Take it at another university or CC, my uni curved like 40-50 points and my advisor hinted to not take it there. So to really learn and be engaged with the professor I chose to take it at a CC. Did well on PS for MCAT,

 

[antifolate]

Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[theriomorphos]

,

 

[Lawpy]

Hello,

I'm a rising sophomore planning to major in computer science. My plan for next semester was to take ochem, bio 2, physics 1, in addition to core CS and math classes. The total credits would be 18. I've taken 20 credits last semester and thought that this schedule would be doable, but I'm not sure now.

My academic advisor and several students advised me to avoid taking physics at my school. It's earned too bad of a reputation that almost all premeds take it elsewhere over the summer. That's what my academic advisor suggested because of my schedule and it's being extremely hard by itself.

My concern about this is that it may seem odd to medical schools in the future. Also that I was planning to spend the next summer preparing for the MCAT with all the prereqs done with.

Which option do you think is the best? Also, another thing, do you recommend taking calc-based physics instead of regular? I kind of like math. I'd appreciate any advice.

As a computer science major taking math courses, you should take calculus-based physics. The intensity of courses like linear algebra, discrete structures, numerical analysis etc., will make calc-based physics a lot easier than what's feared.

And no, algebra-based physics isn't the most difficult weed-out class in any university, although i can see it being one of the most annoying/nonsensical classes. But if you are scared and lack self-confidence, take the easier physics at easier university (not advisable though).

 

[Pusheen]

It's so weird how every school seems to have that one class that everyone cannot stand. And no, it's not always ochem for pre-meds. My school has that for gen chem. I kid you not, about 30-40% of people take it at a different school because everyone hates it at mine.

OP, I personally think you should just suck it up and take it at your school so you can keep on track with your schedule. I took calc-based physics and I think I learned a lot more and it did me good. Only do it if you're good at calc, as in you've at least taken calc 2, better if calc 3.
Does the same teacher teach both classes? (algebra/calc based) They can't BOTH be terrible

 

[doc05]

if you are a CS major who is good at math, there is no reason why you can't take calc-based physics. It's not very hard. I suspect that the "reputation" at your school is because most premeds aren't very bright, and definitely not math-oriented.

 

[Pusheen]

premeds aren't very bright, and definitely not math-oriented.

not to sound like a snob, but this is true. Pre-meds recoil in horror whenever numbers and symbols appear

 

[antifolate]

Very helpful replies here. I have decided to take calc-based physics this semester; it fits into my schedule, feels right, and best suits my math ingenuity.

 

[deleted393595]

not to sound like a snob, but this is true. Pre-meds recoil in horror whenever numbers and symbols appear

I'm Pre-Med and I can confirm that

 

[psychic_detective]

I feel for you. Physics at my school is so bad the advisors tell you to take it elsewhere. Also I don't think ochem is always the hardest either. I'm finishing up ochem 2 right now in the summer and I studied 3x as much for algebra physics 1. I guess I get shapes and weird logic of ochem, but the craziness of mass actions confuse me. Lol.

I not taking physics 2 at a cc or somewhere else though. The professors just changed at my school, the new one has a 1 on rate my professor and a physics buddy tells me everyone in the department hates him. I am gonna take him because, well, I'm sure that in the future I may have someone else who is just as bad to deal with and it seems like a challenge.

So, go have a challenge.

 

[Pusheen]

I feel for you. Physics at my school is so bad the advisors tell you to take it elsewhere. Also I don't think ochem is always the hardest either. I'm finishing up ochem 2 right now in the summer and I studied 3x as much for algebra physics 1. I guess I get shapes and weird logic of ochem, but the craziness of mass actions confuse me. Lol.

dude, I'm in awe of people like you who breeze through ochem. I struggled to get a B second semester. Physics, however, seems so...obvious, you just draw the lil picture and put arrows on it. By far the easiest class I took in undergrad. Funny how those two classes are so polarizing

 

[Axes]

dude, I'm in awe of people like you who breeze through ochem. I struggled to get a B second semester. Physics, however, seems so...obvious, you just draw the lil picture and put arrows on it. By far the easiest class I took in undergrad. Funny how those two classes are so polarizing

Agreed. Verbal thinking and memorization vs problem solving and adaptation, I think.

 

[Lucca]

Agreed. Verbal thinking and memorization vs problem solving and adaptation, I think.

I'm still surprised by how many people say ochem is memorization. I memorized reagents I guess but even then those were pretty simple to understand as to why they did what they did once you learned the mechanism. I feel bad for the people who's ochem courses turned out that way, that just makes ochem artificially harder.

 

[efle]

Calling general science classes "weed out" makes me giggle.

I mean when each step of the intro series makes a third of the class drop I think it qualifies as weed out

most premeds aren't very bright

SLU is a solid university, seems more likely that the class is curved harshly than that the students are too stupid to handle physics

@antifolate how have you been handling your science classes thus far / what is your sGPA? Is money no object here (since summer classes are hella expensive unless you're talking CC)?

 

[md-2020]

Is money no object here (since summer classes are hella expensive unless you're talking CC)?

State uni's are generally very cheap as well. I took biochem at a local branch of UMD (day student) and it cost me a total of $800 (including all registration and first-time fees).

 

[efle]

I'm still surprised by how many people say ochem is memorization. I memorized reagents I guess but even then those were pretty simple to understand as to why they did what they did once you learned the mechanism. I feel bad for the people who's ochem courses turned out that way, that just makes ochem artificially harder.

I was surprised how much people said was memorization until seeing my sister's chem and bio exams. Huge chunks were multiple choice "which of the following is the definition of ___" and other vocab stuff, you could get like a D in the part that actually involved problem solving and walk away with a B on the test

 

[efle]

State uni's are generally very cheap as well. I took biochem at a local branch of UMD (day student) and it cost me a total of $800 (including all registration and first-time fees).

Wow! Depends on your state school then, the UCs weren't cheap (though miles cheaper than WashU)

 

[Cotterpin]

At my school, bio was the notorious weed-out class. But I don't believe in avoiding things just because they're difficult as a general strategy.

 

[raiderette]

At my friend's school, they made physics a flipped classroom and the last two years almost nobody has earned even an A-. The professors don't even do office hours to better understand concepts. All his premed friends told him to take it somewhere else. It broke his 4.0 and he had to self-study physics for the MCAT all year.

 

[efle]

At my friend's school, they made physics a flipped classroom and the last two years almost nobody has earned even an A-. The professors don't even do office hours to better understand concepts. All his premed friends told him to take it somewhere else. It broke his 4.0 and he had to self-study physics for the MCAT all year.

What is a flipped classroom

 

[Pusheen]

See, I think $800 is still too much for a class you can take essentially for free at your own school (since you're paying tuition anyway).

Taking a class at a Cal State is ~$500/credit, so about 2k for a science class. I'm sure the UC's are the same or more.

 

[raiderette]

What is a flipped classroom

It is supposed to be where you do all the reading, then come to class and discuss the material and answer any questions. No lecture. But the professor didn't answer the questions, simply told them to go back to the group. It is a great way to do literature and philosophy classes, but not so great with science.

 

[HarryH00d]

What is a flipped classroom

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=flipped+classroom+

 

[Pusheen]

It is supposed to be where you do all the reading, then come to class and discuss the material and answer any questions. No lecture. But the professor didn't answer the questions, simply told them to go back to the group. It is a great way to do literature and philosophy classes, but not so great with science.

😱😱😱That sounds like the worst idea ever for physics.

 

[md-2020]

See, I think $800 is still too much for a class you can take essentially for free at your own school (since you're paying tuition anyway).

For me it was b/c I was graduating in 3 years, so i had to condense things.

 

[Pusheen]

For me it was b/c I was graduating in 3 years, so i had to condense things.

I was applying it to the OP's situation.

 

[LizzyM]

😱😱😱That sounds like the worst idea ever for physics.

Or the best. You go over the lecture on video as many times as you need to, then come to class and work through what would have been homework problems but you do them in class.

 

[HarryH00d]

Or the best. You go over the lecture on video as many times as you need to, then come to class and work through what would have been homework problems but you do them in class.

I've seen this more and more for Organic Chemistry curriculums - finally starting to gain some traction.

Although the inaugural pre-med classes were more like:

 

[efle]

Or the best. You go over the lecture on video as many times as you need to, then come to class and work through what would have been homework problems but you do them in class.

Yeah and physics is one of the few topics where I feel like it is really hard for a prof to be better than a textbook

 

[efle]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=flipped+classroom+

Wow thanks this Google site seems really useful

 

[efle]

I've seen this more and more for Organic Chemistry curriculums - finally starting to gain some traction.

Although the inaugural pre-med classes were more like:

Now that I would be wary of. People tend to really need insights from an experienced ochem prof that can explain things in several ways

 

[Pusheen]

Or the best. You go over the lecture on video as many times as you need to, then come to class and work through what would have been homework problems but you do them in class.

From my understanding, they were just supposed to read a textbook. And the post I quoted didn't mention working through problems together with the prof, just discussion without much guidance. But I will take your word for it that it can be done well in science.

I've participated in this for all my philosophy/lit classes and I like it there.

 

[Lucca]

I was surprised how much people said was memorization until seeing my sister's chem and bio exams. Huge chunks were multiple choice "which of the following is the definition of ___" and other vocab stuff, you could get like a D in the part that actually involved problem solving and walk away with a B on the test

Really doing their students a disservice this way.

 

[HarryH00d]

Now that I would be wary of. People tend to really need insights from an experienced ochem prof that can explain things in several ways

Which is why physical lectures/TA discussions involve many, many group led practice problems. I would argue that listening to someone drone on in a lecture about HOMO/LUMO interactions or EAS causes more confusion later when a student goes home to work on the problem sets.

With 'flipped classroom' curriculums (yes, there's a more demanding style of proactivity) students are asked to watch video lectures the day before Lecture/Discussion AND complete basic problems sets - foundation stuff really. Another important item of this style includes endless practice problems provided online with instant feedback and hints along the way.

Then you go into class after completing all the prep work for a module and go over longer or more complicated mechanisms with a professor and/or TA. This would all conclude with weekly quizzes. The main take home here is that students can then be tested on much more difficult/involved/relevant problem sets because in reality (and in the ideal sense), they should have already covered most of the 'fluff' material that composes 50% of a traditional OChem exam. You can read up on some of the individuals adopting this style (and if you want, you can e-mail them to argue against it 🙂): https://www.hhmi.org/news/hhmi-supports-top-scientists-classroom


But alas, I digress - I think you're misunderstanding the process. There's quite a bit of interaction with OChem professors and TAs. It just occurs after you put in a little more leg work and perhaps spend a few evenings .... Extra measures are even taken to provide non-mandatory discussions and office hours - at least many more sessions than a traditional curriculum. You have to understand, most of the people redesigning these curriculums have already considered any pitfalls you might come up with, and addressed them accordingly the curriculum style.




Edit: I forgot you went to WashU...If they don't use anything remotely analogous to a flipped classroom in their science courses, than you're probably right! ... The style must be rubbish 😉

 

[efle]

Which is why physical lectures/TA discussions involve many, many group led practice problems. I would argue that listening to someone drone on in a lecture about HOMO/LUMO interactions or EAS causes more confusion later when a student goes home to work on the problem sets.

With 'flipped classroom' curriculums (yes, there's a more demanding style of proactivity) students are asked to watch video lectures the day before Lecture/Discussion AND complete basic problems sets - foundation stuff really. Another important item of this style includes endless practice problems provided online with instant feedback and hints along the way.

Then you go into class after completing all the prep work for a module and go over longer or more complicated mechanisms with a professor and/or TA. This would all conclude with weekly quizzes. The main take home here is that students can then be tested on much more difficult/involved/relevant problem sets because in reality (and in the ideal sense), they should have already covered most of the 'fluff' material that composes 50% of a traditional OChem exam. You can read up on some of the individuals adopting this style (and if you want, you can e-mail them to argue against it 🙂): https://www.hhmi.org/news/hhmi-supports-top-scientists-classroom


But alas, I digress - I think you're misunderstanding the process. There's quite a bit of interaction with OChem professors and TAs. It just occurs after you put in a little more leg work and perhaps spend a few evenings .... Extra measures are even taken to provide non-mandatory discussions and office hours - at least many more sessions than a traditional curriculum. You have to understand, most of the people redesigning these curriculums have already considered any pitfalls you might come up with, and addressed them accordingly the curriculum style.




Edit: I forgot you went to WashU...If they don't use anything remotely analogous to a flipped classroom in their science courses, than you're probably right! ... The style must be rubbish 😉

They have what you describe as an optional PLTL/peer led team learning weekly meetup, they just have a professor do the first round of the teaching fundamentals for the students that prefer that to learning at home (which is still an option and what I did. PJs and snacks vs 9am lecture how anybody chooses the latter is beyond me )

 

[raiderette]

Then you go into class after completing all the prep work for a module and go over longer or more complicated mechanisms with a professor and/or TA. This would all conclude with weekly quizzes.

If that was how it worked at my friend's schools it wouldn't have been so bad. The professors did not go over the more complicated pieces.

 

[deleted393595]

Which is why physical lectures/TA discussions involve many, many group led practice problems. I would argue that listening to someone drone on in a lecture about HOMO/LUMO interactions or EAS causes more confusion later when a student goes home to work on the problem sets.

With 'flipped classroom' curriculums (yes, there's a more demanding style of proactivity) students are asked to watch video lectures the day before Lecture/Discussion AND complete basic problems sets - foundation stuff really. Another important item of this style includes endless practice problems provided online with instant feedback and hints along the way.

Then you go into class after completing all the prep work for a module and go over longer or more complicated mechanisms with a professor and/or TA. This would all conclude with weekly quizzes. The main take home here is that students can then be tested on much more difficult/involved/relevant problem sets because in reality (and in the ideal sense), they should have already covered most of the 'fluff' material that composes 50% of a traditional OChem exam. You can read up on some of the individuals adopting this style (and if you want, you can e-mail them to argue against it 🙂): https://www.hhmi.org/news/hhmi-supports-top-scientists-classroom


But alas, I digress - I think you're misunderstanding the process. There's quite a bit of interaction with OChem professors and TAs. It just occurs after you put in a little more leg work and perhaps spend a few evenings .... Extra measures are even taken to provide non-mandatory discussions and office hours - at least many more sessions than a traditional curriculum. You have to understand, most of the people redesigning these curriculums have already considered any pitfalls you might come up with, and addressed them accordingly the curriculum style.




Edit: I forgot you went to WashU...If they don't use anything remotely analogous to a flipped classroom in their science courses, than you're probably right! ... The style must be rubbish 😉

By pandering to the bottom-middle of the class, the flipped classroom model probably bores advanced kids to death.

For example, I only attended lecture because attendance was mandatory. I sat at the back of the class, and was so bored that I pulled out my laptop to watch TV shows or do stuff for my research. I only started learning the material 1-2 days before the test by teaching myself from the book. And I then killed the curve with a perfect or near perfect score.

For me, the flipped curriculum and weekly quizzes would have been an incredible waste of my time. I don't need to be goaded by online busy-work modules to learn. On the other hand, doing the labs and reading OChem papers my professor gave me was super-fun because I could actually engage with the material, and learn interesting stuff.

 

[efle]

By pandering to the bottom-middle of the class, the flipped classroom model probably bores advanced kids to death.

For example, I only attended lecture because it was mandatory. I sat at the back of the class, and was so bored that I pulled out my laptop to watch TV shows or do stuff for my research. I only started learning the material 1-2 days before the test by teaching myself from the book. And I then killed the curve with a perfect or near perfect score.

For me, the flipped curriculum and weekly quizzes would have been an incredible waste of my time. I don't need to be goaded by online busy-work modules to learn. On the other hand, doing the labs and reading OChem papers my professor gave me was super-fun because I could actually engage with the material and learn interesting stuff.

Sometimes advanced kids enjoy teaching and helping peers to understand the material

Should've gone to a college full of others like yourself