taking summer classes elsewhere...but dropping them sneakily. possible?

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bigman43

bigman43

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so I am going to be a junior this upcoming year. I thought I could get a head start on my MCAT prep by taking Organic (all during the summer). Since I dont live anywhere near the college that I attend(NYU), i was approved to the sequence elsewhere (UNC) for credit during the summer.

The problem is, i think i got this WAY over my head. Its MAD hard. If i end up failing or dropping the class, is there any way anyone will find out about this? If i apply to UNC MED, will they know i took orgo and withdrew at UNC?

im working very hard, dont get me wrong. but something tells me, if say I get C's in orgo 1 + 2 over the summer, i can retake them at NYU and get A's and it would be sweet and no1 will ever have to know I took orgo 2x.
 
Some schools will allow you to withdraw from a summer class with no academic record of it if you do it before a certain date (some even allow it before a final). This is dependent on the school, however, I suggest you speak with the summer registrar and ask them about policies on withdrawing and having it reflected on your permanent academic record.
 
bigman43 said:
so I am going to be a junior this upcoming year. I thought I could get a head start on my MCAT prep by taking Organic (all during the summer). Since I dont live anywhere near the college that I attend(NYU), i was approved to the sequence elsewhere (UNC) for credit during the summer.

The problem is, i think i got this WAY over my head. Its MAD hard. If i end up failing or dropping the class, is there any way anyone will find out about this? If i apply to UNC MED, will they know i took orgo and withdrew at UNC?

im working very hard, dont get me wrong. but something tells me, if say I get C's in orgo 1 + 2 over the summer, i can retake them at NYU and get A's and it would be sweet and no1 will ever have to know I took orgo 2x.
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No one will ever know? NYU doesn't have to know, but every medical school you apply to sure will know. They will average your grades, so if you got C's the first time around and A's the second time around, you have B's for both classes. Just drop it before the end of the add/drop period if you still can (before a drop becomes a W) and take it in the fall at NYU. BTW, do you feel the material is too much in a short amount of time or is the professor crappy?
 
Easier said than done, but just take the courses in the normal academic year and get good grades the first time. If this doesn't happen, retake it at the same place. Why make things complicated?
 
If you're really worried about this....audit the summer classes so you can get a handle on the material (no need to register/pay anything). If the class is big enough, no one will ever know you're not supposed to be there. Then take the classes for credit in the fall, when you have a bit of a background to make life easier. This requires you to be quite motivated though, as you need to have the drive to do all the work knowing you'll never get credit for it. I pulled this off last year - went to Orgo I classes at a university here, and then took it elsewhere. Considering that Orgo I class had 2 As and the next highest grade was a B-, and that right now I have a 98.4% in the same class at another school, I guess I made the right decision.:laugh:
 
wait Zolar ARE YOU SURE?!

how will every med school know?! i am not going to release my transcript to amcas or anyone else.
 
bigman43 said:
wait Zolar ARE YOU SURE?!

how will every med school know?! i am not going to release my transcript to amcas or anyone else.
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If there is no penalty for dropping the class (i.e. no "W" or the words "drop") on your transcript then you don't have to worry. HOWEVER (and this is a big however), if there is a penalty (in the form of a "W" or some notation) highlighting that you dropped the course then you DO have to report those classes.

If you do not report them and you receive a "W" then your AMCAS will be severely delayed (when you do apply).

AMCAS has the authority to find any and all courses you have taken at colleges and universities in the country
 
wait what the hell?!

Im taking organic chemistry over the summer for practice. How will AMCAS find out that Im taking it? Im doing it for my own self enrichment so what when I take my class at NYU officially, i will be prepared.

am i right or wrong?! HOW will AMCAS find out? its summer school.
 
i dont think my question is being phrased correctly:

I am taking organic chemistry for my self enrichment at another university FOR MY SELF ENRICHMENT. I thought i was going to use it towards my premed requirements, but i will probably end up taking it in the fall at my regular enrolled college for actual credit.

Why will I get penalized for this?
 
bigman43 said:
wait what the hell?!

Im taking organic chemistry over the summer for practice. How will AMCAS find out that Im taking it? Im doing it for my own self enrichment so what when I take my class at NYU officially, i will be prepared.

am i right or wrong?! HOW will AMCAS find out? its summer school.
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they definitely find out.

this guy i know last year forgot about a class he took in high school. AMCAS was delayed.
 
bigman43 said:
i dont think my question is being phrased correctly:

I am taking organic chemistry for my self enrichment at another university FOR MY SELF ENRICHMENT. I thought i was going to use it towards my premed requirements, but i will probably end up taking it in the fall at my regular enrolled college for actual credit.

Why will I get penalized for this?
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are you enrolled as a regular student receiving credit for the course, or just auditing the class?

if you're enrolled like a regular student, your college records must be reported to AAMC on your AMCAS. it's just the rules, that's the way it goes. even if you're auditing I think it goes on a transcript/record of college work, but I don't think it will count as anything.
 
amcas FAQ

"
If I received transfer credits, do I need to have transcripts sent from those schools?

AMCAS requires that official transcripts from all U.S. and Canadian post-secondary institutions are submitted, regardless of which school(s) accepted this credit. For example, if you take a summer course at a community college and transfers the work to your primary/home institution, AMCAS requires BOTH official transcripts; the one from the community college and the one from your regular year college, even if the community college course work also appears on your home institution transcript.""

but what if im doing it for my own self and NOT for anything else?
 
uh how will they find out?

im taking this class as a "visiting" summer student. Im doing this for myself. This is like some big brother ****. Why am i going to get penalized for selfenriching myself.

Its like getting penalized for taking MCAT review classes.
 
bigman43 said:
i dont think my question is being phrased correctly:

I am taking organic chemistry for my self enrichment at another university FOR MY SELF ENRICHMENT. I thought i was going to use it towards my premed requirements, but i will probably end up taking it in the fall at my regular enrolled college for actual credit.

Why will I get penalized for this?
Click to expand...


then audit the class!!! if you're not going to take it for a grade, auditing is probably what you want to do.

Yeah, AMCAS might not find out, but if you do a search in these forums, you'll hear of a few stories of people who didn't write down all they needed to write down on AMCAS (ie took a few classes but failed-->didnt write it on app)-->get into medschool-->medschool somehow finds out this inof--->student is dismissed from school.

if you really don't want to put this class down on AMCAS, ask the prof if you can sit in during class. I'm not sure if auditing a class is included in "classes you take" category.
 
i dont want to audit the class. then i wont get a grade, and then there is no pressure. Then i wont learn anything and then that defeats the purpose doesnt it.

im not using this for any degree. Thats some bs. This is pretty muich equivalent to taking a summer class for mcats.
 
i think my situation is a WHOLE lot different from not writing in classes that i "failed" right?
 
bigman43 said:
amcas FAQ

"
If I received transfer credits, do I need to have transcripts sent from those schools?

AMCAS requires that official transcripts from all U.S. and Canadian post-secondary institutions are submitted, regardless of which school(s) accepted this credit. For example, if you take a summer course at a community college and transfers the work to your primary/home institution, AMCAS requires BOTH official transcripts; the one from the community college and the one from your regular year college, even if the community college course work also appears on your home institution transcript.""

but what if im doing it for my own self and NOT for anything else?
Click to expand...

If you auditing the class, then you do not need to provide a transcript.

However, if you are taking the class for a grade, you ***MUST*** submit evidence of this via transcript to AMCAS. Why? Medical schools want to know your complete academic history. You cannot pick and choose which grades you want to show. Failing to notify AMCAS about courses you have taken would qualify as academic dishonesty, which has very grave consequences.



More general advice:

OP, if you are, indeed, just taking the Ochem class for practice, then just audit it. Or, at the very least, drop it and make sure that it does not appear on your transcript.

But, to be honest, I think it's a huge waste of a summer to spend it reviewing Ochem for the MCAT. Ochem comprises only about 1/3 to 1/4 on the biological sciences section, which in turn is only 1/3 of your numerical score. Spending this much time to prepare for such a small fraction of the MCAT is quite silly, in my opinion. However, if you feel that Ochem is a big weakness of yours, then it may be worth it.
 
bigman43 said:
i dont want to audit the class. then i wont get a grade, and then there is no pressure. Then i wont learn anything and then that defeats the purpose doesnt it.

im not using this for any degree. Thats some bs. This is pretty muich equivalent to taking a summer class for mcats.
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then audit it. do you think I wanted to keep my C's? I'd rather just say "LOL sorry AMCAS, that was just for my own self enrichment. I'll take the REAL course next semester!" I'm sure they'd go for that.

no way. do it 100% or don't do it at all.
 
but my WHOLE point is this ISNT at my enrolled degree school. This is at ANOTHER school as a VISITING student.
 
armybound...did you get C's at another institution or at your enrolled college?


there is a HUGE difference, in my opinion.
 
bigman43 said:
armybound...did you get C's at another institution or at your enrolled college?


there is a HUGE difference, in my opinion.
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there's no difference. you attempted a course. if you made an A in this organic chem class, would you still not want it counted towards your GPA? we'd all take a "practice run" at a community college if it meant better grades at the degree-granting school.

if you're taking a class for a grade, you're enrolled at that college. how long you stay there is up to you and admissions.

seriously, I hope you're not really this dense. The simple facts have been stated, if you get a grade in this course then you have to report it to AMCAS. arguing beyond this point is absolutely futile.
 
does it say this explicitly anywhere?

i think this might be a loophole. If you are not getting any sort of "credit" for taking this class, and by credit, i mean it is not COUNTING towards anything, why SHOULD amcas know about it?
 
bigman43 said:
but my WHOLE point is this ISNT at my enrolled degree school. This is at ANOTHER school as a VISITING student.
Click to expand...

Um... some of the science courses I took didn't count for my degree, either. I was a non-science major. I mean, since it didn't count toward my degree, I guess I just won't submit that C I got in Bio41, right? :laugh:

It doesn't work that way. If you don't submit all your grades, you will risk being expelled from any medical school you attend due to academic dishonesty. That is the one unforgivable sin in academia.
 
bigman43 said:
uh how will they find out?

im taking this class as a "visiting" summer student. Im doing this for myself. This is like some big brother ****. Why am i going to get penalized for selfenriching myself.

Its like getting penalized for taking MCAT review classes.
Click to expand...

Simplified explanation: If you take a college-level class, ANY class, for credit and you receive a grade or a W, you are obligated to report the taking of the class, the resulting grade and credit and turn in a transcript reflecting this info, REGARDLESS of your personal reasons for taking said class. Either AMCAS or you future school can run your name quite easily through a clearinghouse for academic history. Fail to report and you are essentially a liar by omission.

It is what it is. I've also said it before, it seems weird that people continue to rationalize with themselves that omitting damaging information about themselves when the info is requested is not lying. The previous poster's advice to audit the class is a perfect solution. Just sit in on the class and pay attention and you won't have to worry about any of this.
 
well thats the point, my university wouldnt accept the credit regardless. They said so clearly.

Im not being dense. Im being totally legit in my concerns.
 
bigman43 said:
does it say this explicitly anywhere?

i think this might be a loophole. If you are not getting any sort of "credit" for taking this class, and by credit, i mean it is not COUNTING towards anything, why SHOULD amcas know about it?
Click to expand...
you copied it yourself.
bigman43 said:
AMCAS requires that official transcripts from all U.S. and Canadian post-secondary institutions are submitted, regardless of which school(s) accepted this credit.
Click to expand...

your "real" university didn't accept it for credit, but your "visiting" school did, so you have to submit it. there is no loophole, sorry.

I'm beginning to think someone is having a ball trolling/yanking chains 🙂
 
i think its too late to convert to an Audit without "dropping"

****.
 
haha STFU.

its academic dishonesty to "omit" that you got a 40 on your mcats by taking 3 kaplan review classes too. its the same thing dammit!!!

i hate this.
👎
 
what.jpg
 
bigman43 said:
but my WHOLE point is this ISNT at my enrolled degree school. This is at ANOTHER school as a VISITING student.
Click to expand...


that doesn't matter. schools don't give a crap whether you took a certain course as a "VISTING STUDENT". THey just care about what KIND of student you were.

sorry, but you're doing a lot of (pointless) justification here. 🙄
 
its not really trolling. im in a predicament now.
 
Bigman,

I think the situation was clearly explained before. I would imagine you had to submit your social security number so there's got to be a way for them to find out easily. I opted not to get even community college credit that I knew wouldn't transfer over to my main university when I took my EMT-B course because I was planning to put minimal and passive effort into it. Your best bet it to just tough it out and start studying. I enjoyed organic and found it much easier than chem 2 because of the lack of numerical calculations. If you're enrolled in an institution like NYU, you should be fully competent in bouncing back and earning A's at a state university like UNC; afterall, you're only 2 weeks max (or 3-4 weeks during the academic year) into the course right? Taking orgo twice will put added pressure to do well your second time around too though. Good luck, the hardest thing about orgo is getting over the stigma that it is very difficult.
 
:meanie:
bigman43 said:
but my WHOLE point is this ISNT at my enrolled degree school. This is at ANOTHER school as a VISITING student.
Click to expand...

EVERYBODY IS SITTING UP HERE HURTING THEIR FINGERS TRYING TO CONVEY TO YOUR SLOW A$$ THAT AMCAS WILL FIND OUT IF YOU TOOK A CLASS AT THAT COMMUNITY COLLEGE, WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT THEM TO FIND OUT...THAT'S HOW IT WORKS...unless you don't actually enroll

Where is my belt?:meanie:
Bring me a switch from a tree!!!😛
:meanie::meanie:
 
bigman43 said:
... im in a predicament now.
Click to expand...

Yes you are. Whoever suggested to you that you could just take the class for self enrichment/practice with no risk obviously didn't know the med school application process. You are required to provide to AMCAS official copies of transcripts of all colleges, universities, ccs, jcs, trade schools etc you ever attended. To knowingly not do so is effectively to submit a fraudulent application. So expect this grade to be factored into your GPA. The only way you could take a course for practice without repercussions would be to audit. Do what you can to salvage your current grade, plan on retaking for an A at a later date and be ready to explain the original grade.
 
Oh my god...is this guy dense or what. Tell me bigman, you said that you didn't want to audit the class because there would be no pressure for you to work hard? But at the same time you want to take it for a grade that "does not count" toward anything and is just for your own "enrichment." How does that work? Kind of contradictory...look don't get all pissed off because you are in a predicament that you got yourself into. I took a total of 6 summer courses at my college an I know for a fact that they give you plenty of time to drop without a W showing up. You can't take a class for a grade ANYWHERE and have that grade disappear. AMCAS has your social security number, and a whole Sh%*%oad of info about you and they will find out if you are hiding transcripts. If they did not require all past academic work, than every jackass would do practice runs of their classes and gain an unfair advantage in the academic year. It is not right that you take the class for a grade and count it if you get an A, but pretend it never happened if it is a C. Doesn't work that way...
 
Bigman. Here's the deal.

1. If you took the class for credit, at any institution of higher learning, anywhere in the world, you must report that you attended it and you must send a transcript to AMCAS.

2. OChem is "mad hard" no matter when you take it.

3. Stop yelling at people who are telling you the truth. Even if it's not the truth you want to hear.

4. Yes, you are in a predicament. A predicament of your own making. So, how are you going to deal with it?

5. I suggest getting a tutor. ASAP. Pay them "mad" amounts of money if necessary to learn enough to earn a decent grade in the course.

6. There is no such thing to AMCAS as "none of your business" if you took the course for credit. Even if you took the course "for your own self-enrichment" yet still signed up for a graded credit-earned course. EVERY class you EVER took is reportable to them. Even if you didn't take it at your "regular" institution. Even if you failed it. Even if you signed up, never attended, and got an I, F, or W. Still reportable. If you were on the class roster, you should send a transcript.

7. Can they find out. Well, I don't work for AMCAS, but considering it's linked to your SSN, I wouldn't want to be the one to find out and get blacklisted from med school for the rest of my life for deliberately hiding something on my application. Your call.


I'm sorry if it's not what you want to hear. But get a strong cup of coffee, hire a tutor, and go live in your professor's office to learn the material now that you're stuck with your decision. Med schools look for responsibility. Be responsible. Study hard. Good luck.
 
alright you ****ing ******s i get the point. yes i was being an ignorant ****ing troll but now im over that hump. everyone can stop being so belligerent.

ps - my prof said doing badly on the first exam and then thinking that you can still do well in the class is analogous to failing to complete a 5k but expecting to win the marathon.

first exam, 48. second exam - 100. one exam gets dropped.

eat that.
 
bigman43 said:
i think my situation is a WHOLE lot different from not writing in classes that i "failed" right?
Click to expand...

Just out of curiousity, how are you financing the tuition for this class? If you are paying with any sort of financial aid then you will need to submit transcripts for sure, because your creditors have record of payment to a post-secondary institution. I'm not saying that you won't need to submit if you are paying cash, I'm just saying that in the case of using financial aid you MUST submit transcripts.
 
bigman43 said:
haha STFU.

its academic dishonesty to "omit" that you got a 40 on your mcats by taking 3 kaplan review classes too. its the same thing dammit!!!

i hate this.
👎
Click to expand...

No its not... Lets use your same rationale that you did with the class you are in. It would be like saying "I'm taking the April administration of the MCAT for my OWN SELF ENRICHMENT! The August one is the one that counts! Plus I'm registered for the April one in Chicago and I'm only visiting there, its the August one in my hometown where it really counts." Taking the 3 Kaplan review courses, again using your rationale, would be the same as you auditing this course for practice or just doing some self-study over the summer.
 
bigman43 said:
alright you ****ing ******s i get the point. yes i was being an ignorant ****ing troll but now im over that hump. everyone can stop being so belligerent.

ps - my prof said doing badly on the first exam and then thinking that you can still do well in the class is analogous to failing to complete a 5k but expecting to win the marathon.

first exam, 48. second exam - 100. one exam gets dropped.

eat that.
Click to expand...

So then do the work and grow up.
 
This thread is "mad" funny. In an ironic twist of fate, the OP has thrown us a curve ball and proved to random people on the internet that he can get "mad" good grades in "mad" hard classes. Do I see some brownie points here or what?
 
dude it would probably work... but ever hear that rule about how if you have to think about if you should do something, then you probably SHOULDNT do it? #1 rule of medicine (besides do no harm) never do ANYTHING that risks your medical license. including before you get the license. not worth it, suck it up, drop the class, enjoy summer, retake it , if you cant handle orgo the 1st time around med school will f you up anyway
 
dkc12 said:
Bigman,

I think the situation was clearly explained before. I would imagine you had to submit your social security number so there's got to be a way for them to find out easily. I opted not to get even community college credit that I knew wouldn't transfer over to my main university when I took my EMT-B course because I was planning to put minimal and passive effort into it. Your best bet it to just tough it out and start studying. I enjoyed organic and found it much easier than chem 2 because of the lack of numerical calculations. If you're enrolled in an institution like NYU, you should be fully competent in bouncing back and earning A's at a state university like UNC; afterall, you're only 2 weeks max (or 3-4 weeks during the academic year) into the course right? Taking orgo twice will put added pressure to do well your second time around too though. Good luck, the hardest thing about orgo is getting over the stigma that it is very difficult.
Click to expand...
That is exactly how they will (quite easily) find out. They have on record every undergrad degree conferring body/entity; it simply is a matter of confirming with them if number xxx - xxxx is a student. If the answer is yes, but the student never submitted a transcript, there is a hold placed on your application, you are notified, and the transcript must be forwarded. If you don't foward it, forget about applying to any med school, period.
 
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